At long last, Hornady is making 7.62x39mm VMAX.


PDA






benEzra
June 3, 2009, 09:37 PM
http://www.tacticalgunfan.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=553&Itemid=1

http://www.tacticalgunfan.com/images/stories/news/art/products/h/hornady_762_1_370_df.jpg

I really like the fact that they are using Russian cases and primers, and U.S. high-energy, low-flash powders. My biggest concern with U.S.-manufactured ammunition in 7.62x39mm is the tendency to use softer Western primers instead of primers that meet eastern European hardness specs.

I'll be wanting a box of this when it is available.

If you enjoyed reading about "At long last, Hornady is making 7.62x39mm VMAX." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Gunnerpalace
June 3, 2009, 10:16 PM
They're making 5.45 too.

Auburn1992
June 3, 2009, 10:29 PM
How fast are they pushing it?

Cpt. America
June 3, 2009, 10:35 PM
Oh how sweet it is. I'm a BIG HORNADY fan and would love to shoot this through my Saiga.

High Planes Drifter
June 3, 2009, 10:46 PM
How fast are they pushing it?

From the article:

TacticalGunFan was recently given a first look at this new load. At the time, Steve Hornady stated this new load has a muzzle velocity of 2,390 fps (approximately 60 fps faster than the standard Russian M43 load). Energy at the muzzle is 1,559 ft-lbs and it retains 969 ft-lbs at 200 yards and 753 ft-lbs out to 300 yards.

In comparison, a 123-grain Lapua FMJ launched at 2,330 fps generates 1,482 ft-lbs as the muzzle. It retains 924 ft-lbs at 200 yards and 721 ft-lbs at 300 yards.

With a 100-yard zero, Hornady's new load drops 6 inches at 200 yards and 22 inches at 300 yards. In comparison, the Lapua FMJ drops 6.5 inches at 200 yards and 23.3 inches at 300 yards.

The loads that TacticalGunFan fired were pre-production samples, which the staff fired at 100, 200 and 500 yards on steel plates.

gvnwst
June 3, 2009, 11:14 PM
SCHWEET! This is really awesome, espically about the 5.45, this will "inspire" other major manufacturers to make it methinks.

Badger Arms
June 3, 2009, 11:33 PM
Huh... I wonder if they'd sell the primed cases with Russian powder and bullets in them too! I'd like to see those. Haven't seen any in months.

SA Town
June 4, 2009, 12:14 AM
What do you guys think the pricing will be like? It's my understanding that Hornandy ammunition usually sits on the high end of pricing.

Thoughts? Predictions? Or is there already a set price out there for a box of 20?

clone
June 4, 2009, 01:42 AM
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=116209

Looks kinda high for casings that cant be reloaded. Me thinks I will stick to hollow point's.

Gunnerpalace
June 4, 2009, 02:06 AM
Thoughts? Predictions? Or is there already a set price out there for a box of 20?

7.62x39 16.99

5.45x45 18.99

Guesstimate.

kanook
June 4, 2009, 09:36 AM
Looks kinda high for casings that cant be reloaded.I agree. looks good, but i'm sticking with brass casings as well. :D

NELSONs02
June 4, 2009, 09:54 AM
I see a CZ 527 carbine in my not so distant future.

I do hope this inspires other manufactures to come out with more metric stuff but it does seem a little expensive. I'd sure like to see winchester do up some ballistic tips with those nickel cases.

benEzra
June 4, 2009, 10:08 AM
Looks kinda high for casings that cant be reloaded.
The main market for this is probably going to be people like me who don't reload. Reloaders can already construct something like this, but those of us who depend on factory ammo can't do that. And for me, I prefer the steel case and hard Russian primer.

And if they do price it at $33/50, that's not too bad if you compare it to other premium rifle ammunition at retail. I just paid $13.85 for a box of 20 Winchester white box 7.62x39mm at Wal-Mart, which is over $34.00/50.

EdLaver
June 4, 2009, 12:50 PM
I'll take a box of 50 for $33 bucks, looks good to me. The closes other comparison on the market is a Double Tap load thats like a little over $50 for a box of 50.

KBintheSLC
June 4, 2009, 03:11 PM
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_71&products_id=267&osCsid=3bfbd6461fd27e56f969c619fe0dd64c

These have been around for a while... I like them, but they are loaded down compared to the Russian Wolf/Bear stuff. Work great in my Ak despite the softer primers. I assume the Hornady load will be pretty mellow too as is most of their stuff.

AnthonyC.
June 4, 2009, 03:40 PM
Yeah, just like the above poster, This stuff has been out for years, I think I saw it in a 2006 cabelas magazine.

Beagle-zebub
June 4, 2009, 04:18 PM
Do they sell the bullets themselves to the general public, and if not, will they ever? I don't see them on their website, nor on Powder Valley's.

gvnwst
June 4, 2009, 04:40 PM
I think Grafs had them for a while, (the only ones who had them, it was a special grafs thing) last time i checked they were out.

tkcomer
June 4, 2009, 04:49 PM
Graf's did have them for a while. I ordered a thousand and they are more accurate than any other bullet I've tried so far. I've since heard that Hornady was going to stop making them for reloaders like me. I wish they wouldn't.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
June 4, 2009, 06:25 PM
Very weird. Typically not most people's choice for a varmint round, and particularly not in the standard platforms in this round. Still, more choices are better than less choices, eh? :)

MTMilitiaman
June 4, 2009, 06:29 PM
Options are good. For years the thing that plagued the AK the most as a defensive carbine was the lack of suitable ammo. In the past, JHP and some of the JSPs have displayed inconsistent expansion that made them sketchy for use indoors or in urban neighborhoods.

Lately, more effective ammunition has been made available to consumers that allows them to take advantage of the AK's potential as an awesome home defense carbine. Most notably, Wolf's Military Classic line 124 gr JHP (as opposed to the older Black Box 122 gr JHPs) uses the 8m3 projectile known to not only be more accurate than most, but also a consistent performer in tissue that expands to twice its original diameter, loses ~20% of its mass to fragmentation, and penetrates 14 to 16 inches in ballistic gelatin--characteristics that make it ideal for defensive use. As this ammo is usually cheaper and more readily available, I really think it will remain a more popular choice than the new Hornady load. But the Hornady load does look interesting and having it as an option is certainly a good thing.

I think I've seen similar ammo loaded by another company with the same Vmax bullets, but this is the first time that I am aware that Hornady has offered the ammunition themselves. They have a well earned reputation for putting out some good stuff.

benEzra
June 4, 2009, 07:14 PM
Do they sell the bullets themselves to the general public, and if not, will they ever? I don't see them on their website, nor on Powder Valley's.
I suspect that for the time being, they're all going into loaded ammunition. When supply catches up with demand, I'm sure you'll be able to get them.

Work great in my Ak despite the softer primers. I assume the Hornady load will be pretty mellow too as is most of their stuff.
My main worry with softer U.S. primers isn't failure to function (they'll always function, no question), it's slamfire. The AK firing pin was designed for hard primers. Put too-soft primers in there, and you run the risk of a stuck or corroded firing pin firing a chambered round. That is very rare with AK's (I've only ever heard of it happening with SKS's), but the fact does remain that the soft primers are outside the AK's design specs.

This load is actually not mellow; it is running 40-60fps faster than Warsaw Pact milspec.

Very weird. Typically not most people's choice for a varmint round, and particularly not in the standard platforms in this round. Still, more choices are better than less choices, eh?
Not wierd at all. This is primarily a defense round, not a varmint round, and one that many of us AK owners have been clamoring for for years. The biggest problem with 7.62x39mm as a defense round is that finding ammunition that expands reliably, and is fragile enough not to overpenetrate, is hit or miss. The VMAX bullet expands very reliably and is very accurate.

I think I've seen similar ammo loaded by another company with the same Vmax bullets, but this is the first time that I am aware that Hornady has offered the ammunition themselves. They have a well earned reputation for putting out some good stuff.
Yes, I think Georgia Arms offered a similar load for a while. It was extremely hard to find, and I never could find out if they used milspec hard primers or not.

Domino
June 4, 2009, 11:22 PM
So they are buying a bunch of Wolf or Barnaul and pulling the bullets and powder out and loading the case with thier own stuff. Whoop Dee Doo, anyone can do this...

Maverick223
June 4, 2009, 11:28 PM
5.45x45 18.99When did they come out with a 5.45x45? Did NATO and the USSR merge? :neener:

AnthonyC.
June 4, 2009, 11:57 PM
I want a 7.62x39 revolver....lol, I wish..... fun/cheap to shoot...

benEzra
June 5, 2009, 12:30 AM
So they are buying a bunch of Wolf or Barnaul and pulling the bullets and powder out and loading the case with thier own stuff. Whoop Dee Doo, anyone can do this..
Any manufacturer could have, except no one did. And the VMAX is an excellent bullet. Given that the projected cost is not far above Winchester white box FMJ, I think it's a good deal for those of us who don't reload.

Coronach
June 5, 2009, 12:31 AM
Not really, Domino. What are you going to load it with? what is impressive is the bullet, not the rest of the cartridge.

Mike

rdhood
June 5, 2009, 01:09 AM
Hmm. I guess if it is more accurate that standard wolf or American 7.62x39, the maybe this becomes an SKS hunting round?

You hope that it is: more accurate, more deadly, or both.

9mmepiphany
June 5, 2009, 01:25 AM
the AK might move back up to the top of the HD pile with this ammo...the only AR i have in the house is a target gun

Maverick223
June 5, 2009, 02:00 AM
what is impressive is the bulletMike, don't forget about the powder, it's a lot better too. At first I really didn't see the point in a 7.62x39, but I failed to realize that there are rifles that can actually make use of the advantages of this bullet...basically that an AK isn't the only rifle that shoots x39.

benzy2
June 5, 2009, 02:40 AM
Now to wait a couple years for them to release the bullet as a component and for me to start handloading 7.62x39. This will go great in the SKS for a groundhog rifle. I had been using a Marlin 336 but for some reason a semi-auto sounds like a fun change of pace. I don't know why they wouldn't use reloadable brass. Oh well. The wait begins.

R.W.Dale
June 5, 2009, 08:59 AM
Now to wait a couple years for them to release the bullet as a component and for me to start handloading 7.62x39. This will go great in the SKS for a groundhog rifle. I had been using a Marlin 336 but for some reason a semi-auto sounds like a fun change of pace. I don't know why they wouldn't use reloadable brass. Oh well. The wait begins.

This bullet has been avalibe for quite a number of years now from Grafs.


The velocity claimed is rather anemic compared to other Russian ammo if you ask me. I don't see the bbl length listed in the specs but as quoted "Steve Hornady stated this new load has a muzzle velocity of 2,390 fps" is quite underwhelming to me. If a factory rep says this it means that in a real gun (not test bbl) you'll be lucky to get within 100fps of this figure. meaning this ammunition is as woefully underloaded as the rest of the domestically loaded 7.62x39 garbage.

If this spec is for a 16" bbl it's not too bad, but knowing how Hornady likes to stack the deck I bet money they use a mythical 24" bbl as the do with their leverrevolution figures

see 3rd sig link for velocity comparisons

benzy2
June 5, 2009, 11:48 AM
This bullet has been avalibe for quite a number of years now from Grafs.
Maybe in .308 diameter but not in the .311/.312 diameter of the 7.62x39 bullets. The only thing Hornady offers at Grafs are heavier 150 and 174gr pills, either FMJ or lead tip.

EDIT: I just checked their .308 selection at Grafs and no 123gr bullets there either.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
June 5, 2009, 12:57 PM
I bet money they use a mythical 24" bbl as the do with their leverrevolution figures

Yeah, that mythical 24" barrel sees a LOT of use in all calibers in all reloading handbooks. It is ONE magical mo-fo of a barrel when it comes to unrealistic velocities! :)

I guess it is an interesting round for self-defense with this bullet/ammo, where there are overpenetration concerns, showing 8" of penetration in ballistic gel:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=158778

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3034972

R.W.Dale
June 5, 2009, 01:28 PM
Maybe in .308 diameter but not in the .311/.312 diameter of the 7.62x39 bullets. The only thing Hornady offers at Grafs are heavier 150 and 174gr pills, either FMJ or lead tip.

EDIT: I just checked their .308 selection at Grafs and no 123gr bullets there either.

I'm lookin at a very dusty box of .310" diameter hornady V-maxes right now:scrutiny:

http://www.grafs.com/product/231030

of course "Out of stock" but we expect that now

Mikee Loxxer
June 5, 2009, 03:06 PM
I thought Hornady discontinued the 123 gr .310" V-Max. I'll have to look into getting some if they are back in production.

Marlin 45 carbine
June 5, 2009, 03:17 PM
it's my understanding that only Graf's (&maybe Cabelas) is the only retailer of the .310 VMax. I bought a K from Graf's - loaded in Lapua cases over 680 they shoot as good as Lapua's much touted ammo in my M30.
I consider them light for anything but a profile or front-on shot on whitetail however and wish they were 150gr. I use them for doe tags and hogs (well haven't had a shot at hog yet but I'm confident they will do well inside 150yds w/good placement)

benzy2
June 5, 2009, 04:33 PM
I guess I was looking under the .311 diameter and didn't look at the other side where they had .310 listed.

If you enjoyed reading about "At long last, Hornady is making 7.62x39mm VMAX." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!