Saiga 7.62x39 conversions almost done look


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June 5, 2009, 07:27 PM
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d3/mack000/DSCF6593.jpg


well I am almost done with this but, I cant seam to get off the trigger guard/plate :mad: :mad: Thank God I have not damage my recever in anyway :) I just cant get this off.. anyone have any ideas? I know a few people here have done saiga conversions. I got my Tapco 5 compliance parts waitting to be installed :)

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lipadj46
June 5, 2009, 07:52 PM
Use the macro setting on your camera I can't see what you've done. If you can't get the trigger guard off that means you have not got through all of the spot weld yet. Keep drilling, try a slightly bigger bit maybe. Check over on the Saiga forums.

Col. Plink
June 5, 2009, 07:57 PM
{double post}

Col. Plink
June 5, 2009, 07:59 PM
Q: does a factory Saiga w/ factory mags require conversion? Is conversion only required when using larger mags? If Saiga made larger mags would the rifle still need converting? Confused...:confused:

cauberallies
June 5, 2009, 08:48 PM
The conversion is to allow the traditional AK pistol grip/stock/trigger position on a Saiga, which comes from the factory with a "sporterized" stock that can't be switched out without modification, IIRC.

lipadj46
June 5, 2009, 09:10 PM
Q: does a factory Saiga w/ factory mags require conversion? Is conversion only required when using larger mags?

If you want to use AK mags you need to add a bullet guide. There are high capacity mags made for Saigas though.

nalioth
June 5, 2009, 09:27 PM
Q: does a factory Saiga w/ factory mags require conversion? Is conversion only required when using larger mags? Saigas are converted for two primary reasons:

1) to regain the ergonomics designed into it. The sporter stock makes them very muzzle heavy and awkward.

2) to get rid of the gosh-darned-awful trigger pull that is there due to the Rube Goldberg stretched trigger arrangement. A factory Saiga trigger has 7 parts where a standard Kalashnikov has 3.

Converting has nothing to do with mags (unless you want it to).

gb6491
June 5, 2009, 09:54 PM
...but, I cant seam to get off the trigger guard/plate
If you can't get the trigger guard off that means you have not got through all of the spot weld yet. Keep drilling, try a slightly bigger bit maybe.
+1 - Same thing happened in this guy's video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk78ls5AVd8
Regards,
Greg

MIL-DOT
June 5, 2009, 11:50 PM
(QUOTE) "Saigas are converted for two primary reasons:
1) to regain the ergonomics designed into it. The sporter stock makes them very muzzle heavy and awkward.
2) to get rid of the gosh-darned-awful trigger pull that is there due to the Rube Goldberg stretched trigger arrangement. A factory Saiga trigger has 7 parts where a standard Kalashnikov has 3.
Converting has nothing to do with mags (unless you want it to). "



Nalioth, buddy, I ain't trying to get in your face,I acknowledge you as one of the AK gurus around here, in fact you've even helped me with a couple issues.:)
But....you missed the boat on this one. Most AK owners wouldn't know a decent trigger pull from a finger stuck in their nose, and I don't recall anyone ever complaining about the lack of ballance in their Saigas,or using that as an excuse for conversion, and I'm a long time member of Saiga12 and other Ak forums.
The fact is, the VAST majority of people converting Saigas,are doing it for one reason only: to allow for the legal use of high capacity magazines.

lipadj46
June 5, 2009, 11:58 PM
But....you missed the boat on this one. Most AK owners wouldn't know a decent trigger pull from a finger stuck in their nose, and I don't recall anyone ever complaining about the lack of ballance in their Saigas,or using that as an excuse for conversion, and I'm a long time member of Saiga12 and other Ak forums.
The fact is, the VAST majority of people converting Saigas,are doing it for one reason only: to allow for the legal use of high capacity magazines.

You do not need to convert to use high cap mags legally. Most people convert because they want a good russian AK on the cheap. People who actually are knowledgeable about their firearms convert because it fixes the trigger and you get better ergos.

MIL-DOT
June 6, 2009, 12:19 AM
Yeah,sure, you CAN, but if you're going to go to the trouble and expense of conversion, why would you go out of your way to avoid the better trigger group plus the cool-factor and resale value of the traditional pistol grip configuration ?
I've been up and down this issue,for years, and the primary reason most people go to the trouble of converting is to allow for the legal use of high-cap mags.

nalioth
June 6, 2009, 12:45 AM
MIL-DOT, not everyone can enjoy a non sporting magazine in their Saiga (ban states).

Enhancing ergonomics and function isn't illegal, yet.

Mooseman
June 6, 2009, 01:16 AM
I can't see from your pic what your having trouble removing. On the 308 saiga I did a conversion on I gently flattened the rivet heads with a file, center punched them and drilled them out. I finished the trigger guard removal with some gentle taps with chisel and small hammer. The plate on the bottom of the receiver was a bit harder because of 2 welds in the middle I couldn't see. I ended up lifting the front and back ends of the plate and using a chisel/pry to get the plate off. I then used a dremel cutting disc, one of the little metal colored ones, to smooth out where the welds had been. turned out pretty well. Just take your time, you'll be fine.

Deus Machina
June 6, 2009, 01:30 AM
Mooseman's right. It comes to a drill and a file or chisel.

Mine was half-easy, because I have a benchtop mill and took the rivetheads right off.

One of the spot welds, I couldn't reach with a short end mill. Bent the plate a little, stuck a chisel under it and against the weld, and tapped with a hammer. Only a couple taps broke it right off, draw-filed it smooth.

Converting is an exercise in inenuity (getting to a couple of those rivets and welds) and patience (filing a rivet if you have to, getting that danged bolt hold-open spring back in).

Maverick223
June 6, 2009, 03:10 AM
I used a angle grinder and soaked rags to prevent loosing the temper in the receiver, it was fairly easy. Just bend the guard back to get to the last rivet. A couple other things to watch out for if you are using a Tapco G2 trigger group...If you use a double hook you need to file a notch on the other side of the trigger hole similar to the stock one. You may (I did) need to file the hammer down on one side so that it hits the firing pin instead of resting on the receiver and falling short. You may also have to slightly file down the sear to prevent it from catching when the trigger is not pulled (DO NOT DO THIS UNLESS YOU NEED TO (OR FILE TOO MUCH) OR GUN WILL GO FULL AUTO). The above may not be needed but was needed for the install in my S-12. Good Luck. :)

ijosef
June 6, 2009, 04:32 AM
Do most of you guys with converted Saigas have the Warsaw length stock or the NATO? I've found that on most commie guns, the stock is way too short to be comfortable for me. If I were to get my own AK (which I hope to in the not-so-distant future), I'm thinking I'd want the NATO length stock plus a recoil pad to give it another inch.

Deus Machina
June 6, 2009, 06:05 AM
Maverick + whoever:
I have a double-hook G2 in mine, and only one slot in the receiver.

I found it was easier to turn on the grinder and grind the right hook (looking down from the top) into a concave curve, instead of the arc-and-bump it comes with.

I mean, those hooks are beefy. One would be enough, and one at full strength and the other at three-quarters is fine.

No other mod needed, works perfectly, and no need to grind an ugly notch into the receiver. Just touch it with some cold blue or something after, to keep the rust off the newly-ground piece.

ijosef:

I don't much mind the warsaw-length stocks, if they have a pad for the extra length. But I've got a smallish frame of my own.

Nato length+pad seemed long to me. But a Saiga's not uncomfortable with any length, especially considering that I shot it for a while with the original stock and the pistol grip. Looooong rifle.

I compromised, with an AR-style collapsible stock--the longest setting is shorter than the original stock!--and keep it set just longer that Warsaw, just shorter than NATO.

bobotech
June 6, 2009, 12:14 PM
But....you missed the boat on this one. Most AK owners wouldn't know a decent trigger pull from a finger stuck in their nose, and I don't recall anyone ever complaining about the lack of ballance in their Saigas,or using that as an excuse for conversion, and I'm a long time member of Saiga12 and other Ak forums.
The fact is, the VAST majority of people converting Saigas,are doing it for one reason only: to allow for the legal use of high capacity magazines.
Converting usually refers to the stock, pistol grip, trigger guard modifications. Moving the location of the trigger guard so that you can use a standard pistol grip, stock, and FCG parts. Doesn't have to involve the mag well area at all.

When most people refer to converting, that is what they are referring to. The only guns that need mag well work to use high caps are the 7.62 and 223. All of the rest of the Saigas can use whatever mags they want without needing work.

I am planning on converting my 7.62x39 because I hate how it balances with the factory stock and gawd awful trigger. Eventually down the road I will alter the mag well and add a bullet guide so i can use standard AK mags but that isn't a big deal for me right now.

nalioth
June 6, 2009, 02:52 PM
I used a angle grinder and soaked rags to prevent loosing the temper in the receiver, You're thinking too much.

The only areas that require heat treat are the hammer and trigger pin pivot holes and the rails.

I found it was easier to turn on the grinder and grind the right hook (looking down from the top) into a concave curve, instead of the arc-and-bump it comes with.

I mean, those hooks are beefy. One would be enough, and one at full strength and the other at three-quarters is fine. I did a pictorial of this procedure for another forum.

IMHO, cutting the 2nd slot in the receiver is much easier, and unless you're just a major klutz, not that difficult.

The only guns that need mag well work to use high caps are the 7.62 and 223. There's no such things as "high cap mags". It's a legislated term (from a law that expired 5 years ago), so let's quit using it, ok?

I mean, honestly, if Congress legislates that we start calling cows "bricks", does that mean you can stack a bunch of cows to build a house?

Maverick223
June 6, 2009, 04:52 PM
The only areas that require heat treat are the hammer and trigger pin pivot holes and the rails.Didn't realize that, but I would rather be safe than save a few rags and a drop of water. ;)
I mean, honestly, if Congress legislates that we start calling cows "bricks", does that mean you can stack a bunch of cows to build a house?Oh don't have a brick. :neener:

rocinante
June 6, 2009, 05:51 PM
I used a dremel with a grinder bit and grinded down the weld on the inside of the receiver. Trying to drill the rivet on the outside was too hard.

Also you are aware to use standard AK magazines you are going to have to drill and tap to install a bullet guide?

I converted my saiga because

1. it is a new russian ak. Wasn't into kits

2. of course I want it to look and feel right with the pistol grip. As was it worked for just a work around stupid laws.

3. ak mags are cheaper than saiga mags.

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