range limit for the m1 garand?


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FlyinBryan
June 6, 2009, 03:00 AM
what is the max range you could make a center mass shot with a standard m1 garand?

anyone ever heard of mentionable long range hits with the old m1?

farthest confirmed kills?

farthest successful hit on anything?

ive always heard that with an m1, if you could see it, you could shoot it.

not the m1c or m1d, just the plain old girl everyones grandpaw carried in the big one, or korea????????

(like this one)
http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv162/flyinbryan_photos/Picture010.jpg

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sarduy
June 6, 2009, 03:08 AM
you are right on that

ive always heard that with an m1, if you could see it, you could shoot it.

Maverick223
June 6, 2009, 03:24 AM
what is the max range you could make a center mass shot with a standard m1 garand?How much ammo do you have? I'd say a couple miles is doable, if you have the time and the ammo. Wanna give it a try? I'll bring the time and you can bring the ammo. :D
farthest successful hit on anything?I am certain that you could make a confirmed kill of the ground for about 3.5mi., hitting something smaller than the Earth would be difficult though.

I think the Garand is good for about 800yds if the shooter is good enough, but this is just speculation. :)

Sunray
June 6, 2009, 03:27 AM
Records like that don't exist.
"...everyones grandpaw..." No. My Da served in W.W. II. Not with an M1 either.
"...certain that you could make a confirmed kill of the ground for about 3.5mi..." Don't be rediculous.

FlyinBryan
June 6, 2009, 04:11 AM
"...everyones grandpaw..." No. My Da served in W.W. II. Not with an M1 either.


my apologies.

it was really just a figure of speech to describe that the m1 i had in mind was the standard issue variety, not the scoped one.

i was going to say "the m1 that everyone and their dog had during that era", but then i remembered that dogs were denied guns from 1941 to 1946, so that would have been false information too:D

TAB
June 6, 2009, 04:31 AM
if I can see it, I can hit it. in the range thats 3-400 yds.

in combat I'd say 200 max.

alde
June 6, 2009, 12:33 PM
From a rest I can put a clip into a 10" circle at 200 yards using a simple rest with my stone stock Garand. I'm sure I could make somebody very uncomfortable well past that. Maybe 400+ yards.

TeamRush
June 6, 2009, 01:06 PM
With correct aperture rear sight, they are regularly accurate out to 500 or 600 yards.

With the Winchester 'battle sight', I can do good hits at 300+ yards, but the hole is GIANT for any real accuracy.

With Good Optics and a REALLY Good Barrel, you can do the same ranges as a .308 Winchester round (7.62x51mm).
I have one that will do 800 Yards with optics and hand loads that stuns about everyone around...

The 'War years' barrels weren't what I'd call 'Super Accurate' and when you start to reach past 300 or 400 yards, the barrel comes in to play BIG TIME!

Get a good Krieger barrel or similar 'Match Grade' barrel and it will become a long range shooter VERY QUICKLY!

I've heard of shots at over 1,000 yards,
One story in particular of a sniper in Korea placed him making regular hits at 1,200 yards, and some hits at 1,500 yards, although there is no concrete information I could find to confirm that...
Still, I wouldn't doubt it, there were some super accurate National Match grade rifles sent over there to be used by 'Sharp Shooters' (over 76,000 in all).

In all, I like my M-1 Garands, but they are HEAVY and awkward to shoot compared to modern firearms...
Sill, Having your hands full of history always counts for something!!!!

SaxonPig
June 6, 2009, 01:14 PM
I can see the moon...

Maverick223
June 6, 2009, 01:30 PM
I can see the moon...You can hit it, you just need a good scope to see the impacts. :neener:

P.B.Walsh
June 6, 2009, 02:23 PM
I can see the stars....... :neener:

61chalk
June 6, 2009, 03:36 PM
I know the sights go up to 1200 yds.
I think they have competitions with them out to 1000 yds...the 30/06 travels far...Sgt. Hathcock with a bolt 30/06 had a confirmed in Vietnam of over a mile I believe. I just got back from the range an at 540 yds was tagging a 9" iron triangle, open sights, Field Grade CMP. Greek ammo. That was today,an my witness with a spotting scope said when I wasn't hitting it as was darn close...asked him if he knew it was D-Day....."Ya...it is!" I asked if he had ever shot a Garand..."No"...would you like to.."YES!"....he has a M14, but had never shot a Garand...."WOW, this thing has more kick than my M1A."
He asked me about it....think he'll be
going to CMP...couldn't believe you could get them for 495.00 an they shot that good. I have faith that a well sighted in Garand, Knowing your ranges, knowing how to shoot if theres wind, a good shooter with open sights wouldn't have a problem hitting targets up to 1200 yds.

rondog
June 6, 2009, 03:43 PM
If you couldn't hit a man at 1200 yards, you could most likely scare him back into his hole pretty quickly!

MutinousDoug
June 6, 2009, 06:27 PM
I just had my SA Garand out Thursday to see what HXP67 ammo would do at 600yd. There was very little wind (for a change) but I have a hard time seeing the front sight with my presbyopic eyes so I string shots vertically. I leaked two shots into the 6 ring, one high and one low. The 8 shot group was 12" wide by 24" tall. The 10 ring on the 600 yd High Power target is 12" so, with practice, the right conditions and good eyes, the gun is capable of shooting clean. (It's a 2MOA gun at 200yds too.)

ar10
June 6, 2009, 07:27 PM
When I was in boot at MCRD every one had to qualify at 500yds.

gvnwst
June 6, 2009, 08:50 PM
"...certain that you could make a confirmed kill of the ground for about 3.5mi..." Don't be rediculous.
Uhh...i am pretty sure mav meant just random shooting, the .30-06 bullet can be lethal a bit farther than that...and it would be confirmed, the police would find a dead guy killed by a .30 caliber slug, and you just happened to be shooting in that direction...(as he said though, LOTS of ammo:D)

Vern Humphrey
June 6, 2009, 09:01 PM
The standard service rifle match was shot to 600 yards-- at paper targets, from a solid prone position. The Army considered the maximum effective range of the M1 (the range at which the average soldier could be expected to get 50% hits on a man-sized target in combat)to be 500 yards.

Trebor
June 6, 2009, 11:01 PM
I fired a stock CMP Service Grade Garand with LC M2 ball at the 600 yard NRA High Power target at a High Power practice night once. I was slung up tight and in a shooting jacket.

I'm not a particularly good rifle shot by competitive standards. I was able to keep most, but not all, of my shots in the scoring rings at 600 yards.

To be honest, I was actually impressed, as this was a stock GI rifle and stock GI ammo and was shot by me, and I'm not a NRA Master level shooter by any means.

So, yeah, combat hits at 500 or 600 yards would be doable for someone who was a "good shot" and if the target was visible long enough. It might not be a "first round" hit though and the target would be likely to vanish if the first round missed.

ar10
June 6, 2009, 11:48 PM
The Army considered the maximum effective range of the M1 (the range at which the average soldier could be expected to get 50% hits on a man-sized target in combat)to be 500 yards.

But that was the Army. :rolleyes:


Sorry, I just couldn't help it.

sarduy
June 6, 2009, 11:57 PM
i dont want to be standing and a 30-06 bullet flying my way at 2000 yards that's like a 9mm at point blank

tactikel
June 7, 2009, 12:13 AM
A .30-06 will easily kill at 1000 yards; "White Feather" used a Rem 700, Unertl scope, and match ammo, His record kill was actually made with a .50 M2 with his 10x scope mounted, taking single shots.
With GI sights, GI ammo, the .30-06 can hit man sized targets at better than 500 yards, it depends more on you than the firearm. Under combat stress 100 to 200 yards is probably max. range for the average shooter.

bernie
June 7, 2009, 12:43 AM
I have a silhouette gong at 475 yards. It is always enjoyable to get someone who is really no more shooter than shooting the occasional deer to consistantly hit the gong. It does not take a lot of coaching to get that to happen with a service grade M-1 and ammo.

TeamRush
June 7, 2009, 02:46 AM
I know the sights go up to 1200 yds.
I think they have competitions with them out to 1000 yds...the 30/06 travels far...Sgt. Hathcock with a bolt 30/06 had a confirmed in Vietnam of over a mile I believe.

61 Chalk sounds like a Ranger name!

Anyway, This is from Gunny Hathcock's own mouth,
Gunny Hathcock's best CONFIRMED kill was a hair over 1,200 yards, and it was with a .300 Win Mag in a 'Militarized' Winchester Model 70 with a Leatherwood ART 10X optic.

Unconfirmed kills at over 1,500 yards came later, but like I said (and he said),
"That's a "guestmate", since there weren't any reliable range finders back in those days,
And it wasn't like the north Vietnamese would let you measure it off!"

He later made shots at 1,000+ yards with an M-21 (National Match version of the M-14) with 10x Leatherwood ART optic on top.

He's also used Unertl optics and Leupold optics in both Viet Nam & Unnamed "Other Places"....
My guess would be Laos and Cambodia, & maybe Thailand, but who knows with the 'Cloke & Dagger' stuff that was going on back then...
-------------------------------------

Second part,

I don't think there is a 'Boot' that can make reliable shots to 1,200 yards, but the rifle will certainly shoot that far!
Maximum range is like 1,800 yards, but I suspect the actual maximum distance is farther than that, some where around 1.25 to 1.5 miles for terminal ballistics...

Mine has Match grade barrel, 10X optics
(period specific Unertl scope and correct mount)
And it will bang out 24" groups at 1,000 yards all day long from rest,
And with good (modern) optics, you can get the groups down to about 15" with 'Good' ammo...

You will have to go with some bench grade handloads to get tighter groups than that,
And 15" groups at 1,000 yards will qualify you for Marine sniper today!

I'm not saying the CMP M-1's will do that by any means,
Many of the CMP rifles have CRAP for barrels, ill fitting bolts and all kinds of problems with the chambering/chambers,
but with good bolt, match grade barrel, and some other work to the rifle, it's good WAY out there!

If you want to take some of the kick out of yours, turn the gas down!
There are all kinds of aftermarket kits to keep the bolt from smacking the back of the receiver every time you fire!
Personally, I like the stainless steel versions that are made like the updated military versions.
They are TUNABLE for gas passage, and they look stock!
Work great, and are only about $60 or so....

ar10
June 7, 2009, 08:28 AM
I don't think there is a 'Boot' that can make reliable shots to 1,200 yards

Absolutely correct, but look at what we were issued. They certainly were not match grade rifles and definitely not new. We also spent more time cleaning than shooting in boot camp. and using those wonderful steel rods from the muzzle down. At 500yds and hitting the 24" red bull with service grade M1's was pretty damn good.

scythefwd
June 7, 2009, 09:31 AM
Watched my grandpa do a 8 inch group at 400y with what is now my garand. COM it isn't on your average sized joe, but it still hurts to take one in the outside 1/8th of your body, and that is till pumpkin sized at that distance.

peyton
June 7, 2009, 09:33 AM
I have shot 1000 yard matches with iron sight M-1, you had to know how to watch the wind and adjust sights to allow for it. Plus the target has a BIG bullseye so you can see it from that far away. What a hoot!!

KSCCHTrainer
June 7, 2009, 10:12 AM
When I went through Army basic training at Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri back in 1961, the M14 was being issued to the field troops, but there weren't enough of them to go around, and all the basic trainees (Boots to you Navy and Marine guys) were issued well worn M1 Garands.

The "Trainfire" concept of popup targets out to 600 meters (may have still been yards then, I don't remember) that dropped when you hit them or the specific time limit had passed was in place and believe me, the 600 meter target was NOT difficult to hit at all if you paid attention to your sight picture & bullet drop during the practice sessions. We never got the chance to shoot at ranges beyond 600 at Leonard Wood, so I never got the chance to shoot any farther than that with the M1. The 30-06 round was (and is) capable of doing lethal damage quite a bit farther out than that.

My father tells of hitting and sinking 55 gallon steel drums at sea out to 1000 yards or more off the fantail of their ship with a 1903 Springfield while they were on their way out to the South Pacific during WW-2. His eyes were quite a bit better than 20-20 though, and even at 97, they are still much better than mine. He's color blind, and I suspect the enhanced contrast he experienced from not being fooled by shifting color patterns of the waves had a lot to do with being able to see those barrels out that far. He certainly was never fooled by the camouflage in use at the time and almost got in trouble once from spotting a camo'd installation that they weren't supposed to be able to see.

Micol W
June 7, 2009, 02:15 PM
In indirect fire with boat tailed rounds it is effective to around 4,000 yards. Wind is a large factor. Not accurate. I'm not aware of any instances where M1s were actually volley fired in action this way. Mostly machine guns used in area denial.

http://www.researchpress.co.uk/longrange/sandyhook.htm

natman
June 7, 2009, 05:02 PM
The 30-06 cartridge is potentially lethal a lot farther away than one can reliably hit with an iron-sited Garand. Guesses in the 5-600 yard range are credible, much beyond that you can't see a man sized target in the field.

Two miles is 3,520 yards. Please.

benEzra
June 7, 2009, 06:29 PM
"...certain that you could make a confirmed kill of the ground for about 3.5mi..." Don't be rediculous.
Read it closely. He said you could hit the ground at 3.5 miles, which you indeed can (given about 30 degrees elevation of the rifle), since that is the maximum physical range of a .30-06. But to hit an actual target, you're looking at 800 yards or so if the shooter is good enough.

Micol W
June 7, 2009, 10:21 PM
Various cartridges farthest reach. Not necessarily lethal at this point. CEP 10s of yards.

Table II – Range of various cartridges

CALIBER Grains Velocity COEF Yards Miles
.22 LR (SV) 40 1145 .128 1500 .85
.22 LR (HV) 40 1335 .128 1565 .89
.380 ACP 95 970 .08 1089 .62
.45 ACP PISTOL 234 820 .16 1640 .93
.30 CARBINE 111 1970 .179 2200 1.25
.30 BALL M2 152 2800 .40 3500 1.99
.30 BT M1 172 2600 .56 5500 3.12
.30-40 KRAG 220 2000 .34 4050 2.30
.50 AP M2 718 2840 .84 7275 4.13

colt.45
June 7, 2009, 11:56 PM
I'd say they're pretty accurate. Mine is one of the least accurate m-1's I've seen producing four moa groups. Despite this, I recently shot it past 100 yards for the first time. I set up a man sised target at 300 yards wondering if a cold bore hit was possible just by dialing in. Sure enough my buddy on the spotting scope gave me a thumbs up first round of the day, then watched seven more fly into a 16 inch group. we both did that routine a few more times:D best damn day of my life.

In her younger years when she had a hot new barrel and a few less wrinkles she might have been able to do that at 600 yards or more. They're great rifles.

reguards,
Colt T

Ian
June 8, 2009, 10:22 AM
A couple years ago, when I was at a 600 yard range, I was able to put 6 of 8 into a silhouette at that distance using the irons on my tanker M1 and Australian surplus .308.

FLNT4EVR
June 8, 2009, 10:34 AM
I had mine out to the range yesterday and after re sighting the rifle,I put 8 in a 12inch bull at 200yds.I was quite happy with that.

Maverick223
June 9, 2009, 12:32 AM
Read it closely. He said you could hit the ground at 3.5 miles, which you indeed can (given about 30 degrees elevation of the rifle), since that is the maximum physical range of a .30-06. But to hit an actual target, you're looking at 800 yards or so if the shooter is good enough.Thanks Ben, that is exactly what I meant. The terminal range of a .30-06 is roughly 3.5mi. at a 32 degree angle, depending upon dozens of factors. Been away for a while, 'puter needed reformatting. :)

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