New Generation of Gun: HK416


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jakemccoy
June 6, 2009, 04:03 AM
(EDIT: Ooop, I should have done a search first...)

I'm probably posting something that everybody here knows, but it's new to me.

I just saw the HK416 on the History Channel. It's amazing if it can actually do everything they claim. According to the History Channel, the government is currently spending millions testing it. The plan is to replace the M4 for military use.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_&_Koch_HK416

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peyton
June 6, 2009, 05:46 AM
Nope, we got way to much money spent on colt, fn and every wannbe producing m16's for the sandbox. I saw some of the hk416's here in camp cupcake iraq. They were carried by "special people" and what I noticed is none of them looked like they had be fired, banged or other wise used. Also, none of the people carrying them looked over 15. I must be getting really old.

RockyMtnTactical
June 6, 2009, 01:49 PM
HK416 is a gimmick. It wont be replacing the M16/M4.

nalioth
June 6, 2009, 01:57 PM
I'm probably posting something that everybody here knows, but it's new to me.

I just saw the HK416 on the History Channel. Don't watch much TV, do you? That show's been repeated for years. The "tests" took place years ago.


Keep it up, TV is bad for you.

RP88
June 6, 2009, 02:04 PM
it's a gas-piston M4. Hardly a 'replacement'. They do these tests for years and years on various new designs until the patents expire and someone takes all of the good ideas and wraps them into one that blows the current generation of firearms out of the water. Kind of like how we switched from the Enfield and Springfield rifles to the Garand, to the M14, then to the M16. Huge leaps in technology occurred during those periods. It would take something similar (compact ammo because of better powders, for example) to that kind of leap in order to even justify a swap. If we see a replacement in 20 years (maybe even 30 years), I'd be surprised.

Regardless of what people think, there really is no better system out there than the M16/M4. No, it is not perfect, but niether is any other firearm of its class out there. The only thing I see happening is possibly a minor update to a monolithic rail, or a new stock, or something like that, but that would be it, and still take awhile to go through.

Matrix187
June 6, 2009, 02:08 PM
The military has already stated it will take a new generation of gun that is leaps and bounds better than the current system to replace the m4/m16. Nothing out there really is that I know of..

rcmodel
June 6, 2009, 02:08 PM
But, the H-K spokes-person said it was far superior to any other military rifle ever made.

Course, H-K has said the same thing about every new design they come up with since the company was founded.
Starting with the VP-70, P7, OICW, XM8, and a whole bunch of other obsolete and failed designs.

rc

Gunnerpalace
June 6, 2009, 02:09 PM
That show's been repeated for years.

No this appeared to be a new one, I found it cheesy but that thing rips on Full auto, didn't help that they had a LAPD officer on the show calling 7.62x39 Tank piercing.

TeamRush
June 6, 2009, 02:27 PM
Well, the guys are 'Almost' accurate on both counts...
The show has been around for a while,
AND,
H&K developments are being incorporated into the new Infantry weapon designs.

AND,
No it's not a 'Gimmick', even though it's being sold with some 'Gimmick' features that will appeal to the 'Tacti-Cool, mall crawler types.
IE: All those silly 'Tactical' mounting rails and such...

The XM-8 has been a steadily evolving Infantry weapon TEST BED for everything that has come down the pike for years.

Will the XM-8 ever be issued to troops?
Not as it stands now, since it's just a 'Testing Prototype' right now and is steadily being changed....

Will the next infantry weapon be a short stroke gas piston weapon. COUNT ON IT!
As of late, there are 131 versions of short stroke piston infantry weapons in testing, and ZERO '0' direct gas impingement versions submitted.

So the gas bolt is a thing of the past...
It's just a matter of time before it's just used by 'Poodle Shooters' and 'End Of The World' nuts...

Personally, I've been using several gas pistons since the 'Rhino' came out 15 or 20 years ago, and I like them!
I've probably got 30,000 or so rounds through that old Rhino system and it still works as good as the day I got it!
Saves a BUNCH of cleaning and heat/carbon wear and tear on the bolt parts too!
------------------------------------------

One thing you will have to keep in mind,
Our military will ALWAYS have to cater to the 'Low Forehead' bunch....
Guys that can't keep a job at McDonalds and do part time community collage to keep from getting drafted...

In the event of an all out war, the draft (Conscription) WILL happen again, and you have to make allowances for the guys with an IQ of about 85 or even lower...

SO!
Any infantry weapon MUST be fairly SLEEK,
So burger flipping moron doesn't catch it on everything in sight,

It must be SIMPLE to operate,
So gas station moron can figure out how to make it go 'Boom',

IT must be reasonably reliable,
Because you are never going to get 'Rap Music Boy' to muster enough brain cells to do a failure analysis, correct the problem, and get back in the fight if you don't.

Remember, many of the combat fatalities right now are because our Felony wavered, Gang banging, Highschool dropout, MTV idiots are unable to tap the mag, cycle the bolt, use the forward assist to clean/complete cycle the bolt right now....

No failure analysis or correction training will help these guys, they simply don't have the IQ points to get the procedures right and stay alive...

And until the 'NEVER CLEAN/NEVER JAM' infantry combat weapon magically appears, we aren't going to keep that percentage of the population alive!

A more complicated firearm will simply result in more deaths...

The military is even looking into magazines that have a display that shows the number of rounds left...
NO, I don't mean holes drilled in the mag,
but an actual display that turns Green when you have 20 to 30 rounds, Yellow when you have 10 to 20 rounds, and RED when you have under 10 rounds...
Mostly because the current crop of 'Volunteers'
(mostly supplied by Judges in local felony court districts)
can't remember if they fired any out of the current mag or not!

Anyway, the newer version of infantry combat weapon will need to be nurse maid and mother figure to the 'Average Recruit' or they will just be cannon fodder like in generations past...

KTALGSTO
June 6, 2009, 02:34 PM
i saw a gun that was pretty nice maybe comparable with the 416?.. an LWRC IAR

Dimis
June 6, 2009, 02:38 PM
Hey Rush they were talking about the HK 416 (aka MR556 for us civies)
not the XM8

from what i understand the 416 has been in testing for a while with limited use by SpecOps

the MR556 will be due out this year sometime

RP88
June 6, 2009, 02:46 PM
out of curiousity: what is the expected price of the MR556/416, and is it going to be a bastardized piece of crap like their G36 sporter rifles they gave us?

Gunnerpalace
June 6, 2009, 03:13 PM
out of curiousity: what is the expected price of the MR556/416, and is it going to be a bastardized piece of crap like their G36 sporter rifles they gave us?

No price, and it's gonna rock, take a look, (http://www.hk-usa.com/mr556_general.asp)

nwilliams
June 6, 2009, 09:16 PM
While the 416 may be a great rifle, I shutter to think what they'll go for when they finally hit the market.

If the MSRP is under $2k (say around $1500) then I would consider a 416 as a possible addition to my gun collection.

However if it retails for $2k or more then I'll just stick with American made AR's.

RockyMtnTactical
June 6, 2009, 10:23 PM
I'd much rather get an ACR if I was going to spend $1,500. Heck, I would rather go with the Ruger SR556 than the 416.

Pretty sure the civvie HK416's will not be compatible with other AR15's in many ways. VERY LAME!

TechBrute
June 6, 2009, 10:51 PM
From the MR556 site (http://www.hk-usa.com/mr556_general.asp):

To conform to German export regulations, certain design changes made in the MR556 prevents the rifle's upper receiver from being used on other AR-style firearms.

I expect a $2500 MSRP, but that is pure conjecture.

SHvar
June 6, 2009, 11:59 PM
I was looking at a strange H&K rifle the other day at the gunshop, it was the XM8 from what they told me, and by its appearance, expensive also. I gues they have to sell them somewhere since the army doesnt want them.

Pickles
June 7, 2009, 12:48 AM
Found this on a Wiki thread chase resulting from the first post above:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/32/Italian_Soldier_Olypmic_Games_Turin_2006.jpg

Favorite Mil-Pic of the month! Sorry for the off-topic...

HKGuns
June 7, 2009, 01:26 PM
Incredible how HK gets knocked on price all the time.

Ever look at the POF piston uppers costing upwards of $1300 for the upper alone? I don't see anyone complaining about those......

benzy2
June 7, 2009, 01:56 PM
But what's a complete lower cost? $300-$400? That still in the sub 2k range which is what a lot of people are hoping for out of HK. If they hit the market at $2500 its a bit reasonable to complain at price. I don't think it will take a ton of hate if it sells for under $2k but if they push above that mark its getting pretty spendy.

MatthewVanitas
June 7, 2009, 06:03 PM
I was looking at a strange H&K rifle the other day at the gunshop, it was the XM8 from what they told me, and by its appearance, expensive also. I gues they have to sell them somewhere since the army doesnt want them.

??? I imagine what you saw was the SL-8. It's a sporterised version of the G36 for the German civilian and export markets.

It's kinda neat overall, and supposedly quite accurate.

http://www.hk-usa.com/-images/products/sl86/lg_sl86.jpg

http://www.hk-usa.com/sl86_general.asp

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