PA - AR-15s are now pistols, apparently?


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SodiumBenzoate
June 6, 2009, 11:24 PM
I don't have a source, but I've heard from multiple dealers that the State Police are now requiring a white pistol form be filled out for every AR-15 lower receiver and even complete AR-15 rifles. This would mean that AR-15s (and possibly Sig 556s as well) are considered pistols in Pennsylvania for the purposes of sales and can no longer be sold to 18-20 year olds.

Can anyone confirm this?

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everallm
June 7, 2009, 08:03 AM
No sign of it on the NRA-ILA site or the PA state trooper site.

Give the State troopers a call on Monday and ask them.

General Geoff
June 7, 2009, 08:12 AM
The State Police are illegally requesting that dealers fill out pistol transfer forms for AR-15 rifles. All self-respecting and knowledgeable PA dealers are disregarding this unlawful request. Any who do NOT disregard it, are in violation of the UFA themselves.

ilbob
June 7, 2009, 12:42 PM
perhaps this is related to the new 4473 form that shows long gun, hand gun, and receiver only as the type of gun.

SodiumBenzoate
June 7, 2009, 04:44 PM
The State Police are illegally requesting that dealers fill out pistol transfer forms for AR-15 rifles. All self-respecting and knowledgeable PA dealers are disregarding this unlawful request. Any who do NOT disregard it, are in violation of the UFA themselves.

That's good to hear. Honestly, this should be an easy one in court. There is simply no logical way to argue that a complete, assembled AR-15 rifle is actually a pistol.

Dokkalfar
June 7, 2009, 06:25 PM
Yea, I dont see how they could argue for that in court, unless Pennsylvania has some very lax laws regarding the definition of a handgun. "Handgun: any firearm designed to be held with the hands" lol. If anyone knows how PA is worded on that?

nalioth
June 7, 2009, 07:47 PM
perhaps this is related to the new 4473 form that shows long gun, hand gun, and receiver only as the type of gun.

Right. This must be "okay" because this is so easily confused with a "receiver" or "handgun"

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/3284/ar15postbanbig.jpg

SodiumBenzoate
June 7, 2009, 09:41 PM
I believe that is the reason, though. It's terribly illogical, but I get the impression that the PA State Police took the ATF's statement - that AR-15 receivers can become either rifles or pistols - and is trying to use it as justification to define all AR-15 receivers (including the ones in assembled rifles) as potential pistols.

Yea, I dont see how they could argue for that in court, unless Pennsylvania has some very lax laws regarding the definition of a handgun. "Handgun: any firearm designed to be held with the hands" lol. If anyone knows how PA is worded on that?

I couldn't find any definition of handgun/pistol. Presumably the ATF/Fed definition would suffice if that's the case? Pennsylvania does have a rather creative definition of "firearm", though that definition is only important for the purposes of concealed carry.

http://www.acslpa.org/pa_uniform_firearms_act.htm

SHvar
June 7, 2009, 10:59 PM
If they are trying that, then wouldnt the AR-15 fit the description of a pistol for a CCW, hmmm.
Now us PA CCW people will be carrying a more effective loaded weapon, concealing wont be so easy, ahh, a violin case...
Probably a Rendell new trick, after all he has already ruined PA and his political career, and his 8 years are up this year. So it would stand to reason that he would try something else crooked before he leaves us, and the court case wouldnt come about until hes long gone...

Oro
June 9, 2009, 12:24 AM
I heard this rumor at a gun show in WA last summer or fall. I asked my FFL, who is a manufacturer of custom black rifles, and he said it was nonsense.

It sounds like this is just some rumor making it's way around, and probably got started from some ignorant article on a blog somewhere.

tdowell
June 9, 2009, 01:46 AM
I've had several discussions with a few guys from CMMG and a new manufacturer called Black Rain, both have told me that they must declare whether a lower is going to be a rifle or a hand gun at the time it is manufactured. Sounds like PA is just ignoring the law.

Spreadfire Arms
June 11, 2009, 01:49 AM
a receiver, if sent from the manufacturer as only a receiver, is listed in its books as a "receiver only." otherwise if they wrote it in as a "rifle" then someone could buy the receiver, build up a rifle, and then return it to the manufacturer for warranty repair. they'd have to then provide a warranty for all guns manufactured on their receivers. that would be bad for business!

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