Build your Ultimate AR


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Dimis
June 7, 2009, 12:14 AM
if funding were not an issue and you could afford any AR (still semiauto 16 inch barrel min) for home defense what would you buy/build and why?

would it be impingment(sp) or piston?

what caliber would you choose?

what options would you get?

what accessories would you stick on or in it?

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P.B.Walsh
June 7, 2009, 12:44 AM
For a gas piston: POF .223 Recon with Troy front and rear folding sights with tritium, EoTech or Aimpoint, magazine coupler with 2-30 round PMAG's, VTAC handguard (if they can fit on a gas piston), Tango Down VFG, JP Short Range Tactical Sight, some kind of Surefire flashlight, and a Vortex flash hider.

For direct impengment: POF lower, LaRue Stealth 16" upper, and all of the accesories that I just mentioned.

This is what I'd use if I had unlimited funds, but mabey in .308 (can't decide), oh darn......

P.B.Walsh
June 7, 2009, 03:01 AM
C'mon y'all let's here those very insightful opinions!!!!!

Dimis
June 8, 2009, 11:26 AM
i guess everyone loves off the shelf Olympic Arms

jdh
June 8, 2009, 01:19 PM
Money no object Home Defense AR HUH? Ok I'll play.

Start with a quality lower, don't care what is stamped on the side of it, and fill it with the best parts available. An ambi-safety lever would be the only "upgrade" needed. Put a fixed A1 length stock on it. No telescoping stock of any kind. I can live with an A2 pistol grip.

A2 upper. My house and grounds are never totally dark, don't need NVDs and don't want to have to fumble around trying to turn on a reddot or holo sight. Upper will have the FA, better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

I know you said 16" but you also said ULTIMATE so it will have an 11.5" barrel with a Gemtech on it to bring the total length to just over 18". Why? Because gunshots in a confined space are LOUD and I want to be able to hear if there are any other threats.

The barrel will be surrounded by a Quad rail free float tube. A vertical foregrip on the bottom. Right side Surefire Milspec with P61 module. Now I am not a big laser fan but there is the intimidation factor so a laser module will be attached just to let the bad guy know I know where he is when the dot appears on his chest. If that stops him and I don't have to pull the trigger so much the better.

The gas system has worked for nearly 50 years. I see no need to add more moving parts that need to be cleaned and maintained which complicate the take down process.

There you go.

kwelz
June 8, 2009, 02:44 PM
I prefer simple.

Colt 6920 with DD Omega or a 6940.
Magpul MIAD or MOE Grip.
VLTOR Modstock (I personally like the clubfoot best)
Tango Down VFG
Surefire Scoutlight
Aimpoint CompM/ML3
Troy flip BUIS
Magpul ASAP plate and M2 Sling

That is pretty close to my Home defense carbine. But if I had unlimited funds and no wait times that is what I would have.

RP88
June 8, 2009, 02:52 PM
upper:

midlength with 16" 1x7 twist chrome-lined barrel, standard F-marked A2 sight, YHM 2-pc quad-rail, some sort of vertical grip, full-auto carrier with mil-spec'd bolt and proper staking, a phantom 5c2 flash hider, and the A3 "flat-top". I'd then put an Aimpoint ML-something or EOtech 512 (or whichever runs off of normal AA batteries) with a quality BUIS

lower:

a decent lower, an ergo grip, and a milspec-diameter carbine stock with that cheapo rubber buttpad you can tack on for five bucks. Also would like the fun switch if laws are also no object. Then I'd put the good ol' silent sling onto it. Nothing fancy needed.

and just about all of "the chart" would be X'd for it, save for heat shields and the warranty (I would build it to cut costs)

So far, I'm close to finishing such a rifle, but it will not of course be with the fun switch

Walkalong
June 8, 2009, 03:08 PM
Noveske......with accessories.....:)

theotherwaldo
June 8, 2009, 03:23 PM
I've got a basic AR flat-top, 20'' hb, and two sets of Barbie clothes: -a1 and a4.

I have no desire fore more.

P.B.Walsh
June 8, 2009, 05:44 PM
so it would have to be a 11.5" barrel

The OP stated a minimum of a 16" barrel.

TeamRush
June 8, 2009, 07:34 PM
if funding were not an issue and you could afford any AR (still semiauto 16 inch barrel min) for home defense what would you buy/build and why?

would it be impingment(sp) or piston?

Piston, most certainly piston.
I've spent the last 32 years cleaning gas systems and I'd like a break for a while!

what caliber would you choose?

AR-15 would be standard .223 Remington,

AR-10 would be .300 Winchester Short Magnum.

what options would you get?

The best match grade barrel money can buy,
Full floating hand guard,
Good trigger (doesn't have to be outrageously expensive)
Flat top receiver,
The best optic Leupold makes with rings.

what accessories would you stick on or in it?

Hunting camo finish.
I actually USE the sights, so I don't need all those goofy lights, lasers, ect.

A good sling would be a must...

I'm not stupid enough to get caught with an AR as my only home defense choice!

jdh
June 8, 2009, 07:48 PM
PB are you the thread police and did you read the rest of the sentence?

11.5" barrel + 7" suppressor = 18.5". Like I said, just over 18 inches, well over the required 16".

P.B.Walsh
June 8, 2009, 08:11 PM
Whacha gonna do, whacha gonna do when they come for you, bad boy, bad boy.....

Just kiddin, I just meant the barrel, I guess your in the right since the OP didn't specify if that ment suppressed or not.

My bad. :)

Dimis
June 8, 2009, 08:31 PM
nah just over all 16 inches but seeing as how its a suppressor you still gotta get stamped for that
no harm no foul

P.B.Walsh
June 8, 2009, 08:46 PM
I sure do wish we could get SBR's in Alabama!!!!!

We can have silencers and full-auto, but no darn SBR's!!!!!!!! :banghead:

Dr.Rob
June 9, 2009, 04:54 PM
You CAN buy an 11.5 inch barrel with a permanently attached 5.5 inch flash suppressor (CAR 15 style/XM177) without any special permit. That on a Colt 6920 lower with a flashlight mount on the fore end would be just fine for a home defense dedicated AR-15. It needs a real sling, in case you have to go outside or up on the roof.

I think OLY still makes a CAR stlye shorty off the shelf, but I'd buy a Colt since money was no object.

Again this is ONLY if I wanted a 'dedicated home defense' AR.

Reid73
June 9, 2009, 05:03 PM
Already asked and answered (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=448255). :scrutiny:

iamkris
June 9, 2009, 06:29 PM
I didn't go "cost is no option" but here's what I built last fall to thumb my nose at the Obamessiah


AeroPrecision multi-cal lower
Stag/CMT M4 upper
Badger Gen II TacLatch
RRA 2-stage NM trigger
VLTOR stock
WOA 18" SS SPR profile barrel and bolt
PWS FSC30 flash hider / comp
YHM front sight
Brownells HK-type rear sight
ERGO grip
Magpul triggerguard
MI low profile gas block
YHM FF rifle-length quad rail handguard
MI sling mounts
EoTech 511 (now with a 4x magnifier)
PRI mags


http://i37.tinypic.com/2w6ap8w.jpg

I researched both the 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC pretty heavily and initially decided on the Grendel. It seemed to have all the terminal ballistic advantages of the 6.8 but with better exterior ballistics. I bought an AA Overwatch upper and built an 18" SPR.

Building the upper was a nightmare...what with many delays and difficulties in getting parts (I only bought top-end parts for it). Brass was expensive, reloading info was scarce. In the end, accuracy was good but not mythical like the caliber has been built up to be. That is with factory and many variations of reloads.

I realized I was trying to get a lightweight, handy CQB caliber with better performance than the 5.56 as well as a great long range caliber. While not completely mutually exclusive, it is difficult to do both. I still think the Grendel is an interesting caliber for what I REALLY WANTED TO DO (better ballistics, terminal out to 500 yards) the Grendel wasn't it. I sold the uppers and built a 6.8 upper.

It is showing very good accuracy (hovering right around MOA), has better terminal effect than 5.56, can hang with a 308 for the distances that I'm interested in and has the advantage of much wider distribution. Grendel needs to be less "exclusive" if it wants to make up the gap.

I've also decided that if I want a long range rifle semi-auto rifle, I should build a long range semi auto rifle...probably a AR10 in .260 Rem or 6.5 Creedmore.

I had a very long phone conversation with John Holliger of White Oak Armament. There's a lot of talk about the SAAMI vs. SPC-II chamber and the pressures created in each...his view is that it is a lot of hoo-haw about nothing unless you are trying to hot rod the cartridge and make it into a .270 Win.

Here's its brothers

http://i39.tinypic.com/rs93k7.jpg

Bartholomew Roberts
June 9, 2009, 07:17 PM
Well here is what I have been shooting for a while now...

http://www.ont.com/users/kolya/AR15/midLilja2.jpg

Based on that rifle, which I like quite a bit, here is what I would do if I were going with a "cost is no option" AR15:

1. 5.56mm direct impingement system

Why: I already have the accessories, knowledge base and parts to support this system and it does everything I need it to do.

Parts:
Larue Stealth upper (or DD Upper if it is my own money being spent)
16" midlength Noveske N4 barrel 1:7
Young manufacturing BCG, properly staked
PRI Gasbuster charging handle
10" DD Lite rail or PRI midlength float tube
PRI Rail-mounted flip-front
Troy folding rear sight
Magpul AR lower
Sierra Precision pistol grip
Magpul UBR stock
Weapon Shot Counter
Stock fire control group; but matched to give a nice trigger pull
H buffer
Aimpoint T1 with Magnifier in Larue mounts
Trijicon TR21 crosshair in Larue mount
ACOG TA33 red chevron in Larue mount
AN/PVS14
DBAL IR Laser/illuminator
Surefire G2 w/Cree LED lamp on a angled mount
Magpul rail panels (unless I went PRI tube)
Surefire muzzle device
Surefire FA556K Suppressor

Dimis
June 9, 2009, 09:40 PM
IAMKRIS
what is that last AR at the bottom of the pic of the "brothers"
is that one of those modular AR lowers? or just a proprietary lower? or a modded magazine and i just cant tell?

iamkris
June 9, 2009, 09:59 PM
what is that last AR at the bottom of the pic of the "brothers"


Standard 5.56 DPMS lower with a mag block to accept unmodified Sten mags. Oly 9mm upper.

P.B.Walsh
June 9, 2009, 10:12 PM
That Aero Pecision Multi-Cal Lower, does it take 6.8 AND 5.56?

cameron.personal
June 9, 2009, 10:24 PM
I couldn't build just one... the best thing about ARs is that they are modular and can fulfill different roles. I wanted three carbines for my last builds that would handle and feel similar but be used for different roles. Effectively my interpretation of a SOPMOD SPR and a CQBR and a high volume general purpose HBAR rifle that could do both.

Daniel Defense SPR 16"
For the SPR I wanted a low(er) volume 16" mid-length that I could use as a 3 gun carbine, and as a precision rifle. For this I decided to go with a Daniel Defense SPR Complete Upper 16" tapered 1in7 twist LW50 Lothar Walther stainless barrel with a Wylde chamber, with the excellent Daniel Defense 12.0 lite rail that would not only free float the barrel but would give a generous sight radius for the BUIS and allow for attaching a QD bipod farther out as I prefer. The DD SPR upper comes with a hand matched Bolt Carrier Group from DD. I preferred the DD upper to the LaRue equivalent simply because I prefer the DD Lite rail and the reduced weight of the tapered LW50 barrel, which in my hands makes the carbine move and balance better. A Leupold MK4 MR/T 1.5-5x20mm illuminated SPR reticle scope I love the optics clarity but really like the SPR reticule and the M2 BDC turret, I ordered a second turret from Leupold so I have data and zeros for both the 62gr and 77gr loads. I mounted this in the LaRue SPR QD mount simply because has a rep for being the best, less to worry about. For a lower receiver I picked a LMT Defender 2000 with the 2 stage match trigger which allows me to make the most out of the Lothar Walther barrel. I covered the exposed rail with Magpul XTM panels. Troy BUIS simply because they are of excellent quality and once loctited in place I can forget about them.
While I love the look of the MIAD from Magpul I was never able to get the feel right and after buying one for this rifle I removed it and replaced it with the rubber Ergo grip it just fits my hand better and now I have the Ergo on all my ARs. Lastly I added a Magpul UBR stock and the Vicker's Combat Applications sling. I am glad I removed the LMT SOPMOD and went for the UBR it is the best collapsing stock I have tried and it really balances the rifle out.

I am really happy with the way it turned out and the way it performs, it balances well offhand, even with the bipod, and is amazingly accurate, producing sub 0.5 MOA all day with quality ammo.
http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/cameron_personal/AR15s/CamzSPR.jpg


LMT CQBR 10.5"
The second AR is intended to be my take on a CQBR, so I purchased the LMT CQBR 10.5" 1in7 twist 5.56NATO upper, I immediately had the front sight post milled off and installed the Daniel Defense 10.0 lite rail, I used a Bravo Company M16 Bolt Carrier Group and an H2 buffer to slow the bolt down in this beast. A single stage mil spec trigger is great for high speed close range shooting. Since this is for close range carbine I find the EOTech to be my fastest CQB optic and went with the EOTech 552 mounted on the LaRue QD EOTech riser with the Troy front and rear BUIS for a lower 1/3 co-witness. Magpul UBR feels great on this shortie, I thought it might not balance a really short barrel like this but is is lively and feels great. Tango Down Vertical fore grip and a Surefire X300 make this SBR a great home defense carbine!
http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/cameron_personal/LMT%20CQBR/CQB3.jpg


Colt HBAR 16"
The third carbine was to be a "beater" high round count, general purpose rifle that I wouldn't mind using for "hard use" shooting with a more flexible twist rate to take advantage of the cheapest ammo that may be available, so I went with a Colt HBAR 16" 1in9 twist 5.56NATO chambered barrel from a Colt AR6721 and again used the excellent Daniel Defense 12.0 lite rail, I added an LMT Bolt Carrier Group for reliability with a carbine buffer. Lower receiver is an LMT Defender 2000 with a 2 stage match trigger and Magpul UBR stock. With the optic I can mount an EOTech 552 in the LaRue QD riser as it is so damn fast for close range shooting, the Troy BUIS gives me a lower 1/3 co-witness. I am also able to switch out to the Leupold MR/T 1.5-5 if necessary, and with the trigger and stock it feels just like the DD SPR above. Tango Down vertical fore grip out front to get a good handle on the 16" HBAR and long rail.

Even with the HBAR this carbine balances much like the DD upper above... the funny thing is this Colt barrel has been very accurate, and may give the LW50 a run for it's money...

This layout feels great and moves and points very naturally for me.
http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/cameron_personal/Colt%20HBAR/CamzHABR01.jpg

The end result is three carbines that have a common look and feel, but more importantly perform really well for their niche. My wife used to like the DD SPR, because she could shoot sub MOA groups all day at the 100yard line, until she tried the CQBR....

Now I am on the hunt for a Class III full auto lower that will work with these 3 :D

Someone once said maybe I only had one lower.... so here is a family shot:
http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/cameron_personal/AR15s/3ARs2.jpg

While I sold a custom AK47 and another AR15 to fund these guys, I am not spending any more money on guns for awhile... :eek:

Cameron

P.B.Walsh
June 9, 2009, 10:37 PM
I'm jeleous!!!!!:)

SHvar
June 10, 2009, 01:27 AM
Heres my new home defense AR, its gas piston. I added the bayonet for the picture, but for home defense it could come in handy.
Ill add a flashlight, and possibly a verticle foregrip to it, and Bushnell T dot reticle Mp scope with the optional carry handle/rear sight, otherwise Im happy so far with how its equipped.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z281/SHvar/m4gpbayo.jpg

wickedsprint
June 10, 2009, 03:08 AM
If by some weird reverse assault weapons ban where one could only own an AR15...I'd be perfectly happy with an off the shelf Olympic Arms for home defense.

I think the majority of the posters missed the OP's mission of home defense and are just telling us what their wet dream of an AR is.

iamkris
June 10, 2009, 07:05 AM
That Aero Pecision Multi-Cal Lower, does it take 6.8 AND 5.56?


Actually, any 5.56/.223 lower will take 6.8...the Aero is just not specific about what caliber it is for. I didn't want my lower to state one caliber and the upper to be another.

P.B.Walsh
June 10, 2009, 11:53 AM
So does that mean that I could buy a 5.56/.223 rifle and ADD a 6.8 upper?

TIMC
June 10, 2009, 12:03 PM
Never thought too much about an AR for HD but if I did it would be the Beowulf I built last year.

A.A. .50 Beowulf upper
Custom made laser engraved dust cover.
Dedicated Beowulf engraved A.A. lower with CMT parts kit.
YHM quad rail with Magpul rail covers.
Brownells Riser
Burris 1.75-5x32mm LRS Signature Safari scope.
Pet load of 334 grain Rainier HP with 36.0 grains of Lil'Gun would do the job nicely.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/timc/Beowulfcompleted09pic1.jpg?t=1244649617
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/timc/Beowulfrightside.jpg?t=1244649469

P.B.Walsh
June 10, 2009, 12:05 PM
Kinds big for HD isn't it?

TIMC
June 10, 2009, 12:24 PM
Kinds big for HD isn't it?

I don't think so, the rifle is small so it is easy to move around in close quarters. The plated Rainier bullets flatten and do tremendous tissue damage on impact and have far superior stopping power over tha .223. I know I have tested this load on Ferral hogs so I am sure it would do well for 2 legged swine too but as I said I never really thought about anr AR for HD but if I did...

I woudl prefer a shogtun for the job myself.

P.B.Walsh
June 10, 2009, 12:26 PM
How much are the .50 Beowulf rounds?

TIMC
June 10, 2009, 12:35 PM
How much are the .50 Beowulf rounds?

The A.A. website list them for about $26 per 20 rounds but it is next to impossible to find and I have seen them for as much as $75 per 20 on the auctions. I am loading them for a lot cheaper. I have never had a factory round in mine, I have plenty of brass and the factory loads are too hot IMHO.

datruth
June 10, 2009, 02:58 PM
and it is not about what you spend its more about what you want out of it and Im pretty comfortable with mine
LMT upper and lower
Surefire M73 rails
TA31 acog/w kill flash/w doc optic
Surefire M600 millennium light
YHM buis
Knights armament Vertical grip
Magpul Moe pistol grip and a good mix of P mags and Standard thirty rd GI mags.



http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk39/datruthab123/Picture266.jpg

usmc1371
June 10, 2009, 03:16 PM
Ruger .556 bone stock however it comes out of the box...:neener::barf::neener:


Jk. give me that .50 and maybe a surefire and I would be a happy camper.

dillynfw
June 10, 2009, 04:39 PM
I like this:

SD M5 Grendel Tactical (http://www.sabredefence.com/commercial.php) with the rail covers but no accessories.

The new ACOG low profile (http://www.galleryofguns.com/Genie/default.aspx?item=TA31RCO-M150CP), a Mars 4X night vision scope (http://www.atn-night-vision-sales.com/proddetail.asp?prod=ATN_NVWSMRS440), and lots o' mags n' ammo.

iamkris
June 10, 2009, 05:19 PM
So does that mean that I could buy a 5.56/.223 rifle and ADD a 6.8 upper?


Yup!

Mags
June 10, 2009, 05:22 PM
My ultimate AR-15 for defense is already built next is going to be my ultimate AR10 for long range shooting. I think I have more money on my rails then in my gun. :)
Here is the specs.
Armalite lower
Cerro Forge M4 notched upper
DTI 1:9 5.56 barrel
Magpul MOE stock and rear pistol grip
Midwest Industries single point sling swivel
Midwest Industries free float quad rail
SureFire m600 scout light (with IR filter not shown)
Aimpoint Comp2 with ARD kill flash
MA Tech back up irons
Magpul Pmags
Tango Down vertical foregrip
YHM Phantom flash suppressor

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24/hossdelgado/M4.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24/hossdelgado/AR15.jpg

P.B.Walsh
June 10, 2009, 06:36 PM
the 5.56/6.8 combo, does that apply only to Aero Presicion?

Do I need a 6.8 to accomidate a 5.56?, or is it the other way around?

Thanks

Gordon
June 10, 2009, 07:00 PM
I want a light profile chrome lined 1 in 7" 16" barrel with a Smith Vortex hider and properly installed Mil spec carbine front sight.. A chrome bolt and carrier that is blueprinted. I want a good quality (LMT, Colt) upper and lower with all the parts blueprinted on installation. Aim Point Micro and a 3x magnifier on a Larue swing mount.Magpul stock of somesort and a nice railed lightweight handguard that mounts a Surefire grip light.:)

iamkris
June 10, 2009, 10:06 PM
the 5.56/6.8 combo, does that apply only to Aero Presicion?

Do I need a 6.8 to accomidate a 5.56?, or is it the other way around?


I think you need to go read up on this.

AR lowers come in 2 sizes. The "5.56/.223" and the "7.62/.308".

The smaller accomodates rounds that are the same overall length or shorter than the 5.56...that includes 6.8, 6.5 Grendel, .300 Whisper, .50 Beowolf, 50 Bushmaster and probably a few others (like pistol calibers).

The larger is for rounds that are the length of the .308 or shorter. like .243, 6.5 Creedmore, 7mm-08, etc.

P.B.Walsh
June 10, 2009, 11:29 PM
Ok, got it, thanks a bunch for clearing that one up, I didn't know that at all, thanks again. :)

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
June 10, 2009, 11:48 PM
Man I love the beowulf TIMC - that just rocks! :)

cchris
June 11, 2009, 12:09 AM
I'm not too AR-15 savvy, but someone showed me an AR-15 builder site (www.ar15builder.com)...I'm not honestly that informed on these guns, but the idea behind the site is pretty cool, letting you pick out at least the basics of what's out there.

If I had the $$$, I'd go ahead and piece together one, then find the parts individually for cheaper than what the site offered them for - guarantee you that site is making some dough, since I'm sure they include a nice "service charge" in all of those prices.

SHvar
June 11, 2009, 04:15 AM
Heres mine, Bushmaster gas piston upper, MOE stock, Hogue pistol grip, verticle foregrip, DPMS lower, XRE Cree LED flashlight 110 lumens, Bushnell 1X32 MP scope.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z281/SHvar/Picture143.jpg

Kind of Blued
June 11, 2009, 04:30 AM
I'd have somebody custom build me a .300 Whisper gun with a 10.5" barrel and a 5.5" permanently attached suppressor (that counts, right?)

A Surefire in a VLTOR mount and a Crimson Trace vertical grip would be on the forend, and a full P-Mag would be in the magwell.

Why damage your hearing just because some creep decided to break into your house?

ParaElite
June 11, 2009, 08:36 AM
Noveske with all the trimmings!

TIMC
June 11, 2009, 09:07 AM
Man I love the beowulf TIMC - that just rocks!

Thank you sir!

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