"Out of the Wild: The Alaska Experiment" - Guns?


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ReadyontheRight
June 7, 2009, 07:48 PM
I made the mistake of getting caught up in a Discovery Channel marathon of "Out of the Wild: The Alaska Experiment" where some city-slickers get dropped off in Alaska and hike between rustic shelters for an indefinite number of days.

After 27 days and 45 miles, they just decided to leave their "Bear Gun" - a scoped ".45 caliber" Ruger Single Shot (I am assuming a 45/70) behind in a cabin. :scrutiny: Because it's "not good for birds".

They have a Remington (Spartan?) .410/.22 "bird gun" they are keeping.

Aside from the fact that the team of 5 (down from 9 - 4 quit) seems to sit around whining about being hungry - instead if hunting, fishing or trapping ... and aside from the fact that when they do go out, they always stop after catching one fish, shooting one bird, etc. They tried trapping once, but gave up after it did not work. It's an interesting show. Apparently one of the few survival shows that actually uses worthwhile tools (guns).

My question: Which guns would you bring along on such a trip in the middle of nowhere in Alaska?

My choices:

-Youth-sized H&R single-shot .22/20ga combo - switch barrels as needed and split up the wieght.
-.22 pistol on the hip
-30/30 Winchester 94 carbine

P.S. I suppose the show would be boring if they just shot a moose and had enough food for the whole trip. But I think that would be my plan.

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MCgunner
June 7, 2009, 09:35 PM
Yep, a rifle, .308, Remington M7 stainless probably out of MY collection. I'd tote a contender pistol with my .45 colt/.410 barrel on it, my always gun.

I haven't watched it. I'm sure, though, that all the sitting around, complaining, woopie when they catch one fish, is hollywood. Be kinda boring to the general public if it was all hunting and fishing all day and they designated the worst outdoorsman to clean and cook the catch, or at least keep the camp straight and do the cooking if not the cleaning.

Me, I'd send several out to hunt small game while I went after whatever something BIG I came across with the .308. Hopefully, it'd be a moose or black bear or something of that size. I'd build a smoke house of timber and jerk a big part of the meat. In fact, I might designate a couple of people for camp chores so that the smoke house could get built. Not sure what I'd do for seasoning, but if it's near a sea shore, salt from the filtered, evaporated water would help.

I know fish traps, majored in the subject and how to illegally catch fish (for sampling purposes, you understand :D); but, it's big game that would feed the crowd with the least effort.

I've tried to watch that show, but I just couldn't get into it.

geologist
June 7, 2009, 09:57 PM
Marlin 1895GS 45-70. I shoot 2.5" .410 shells out of mine.

I never watch reality TV, it rots your mind and makes you into a metrosexual.

ReadyontheRight
June 7, 2009, 11:33 PM
Marlin 1895GS 45-70. I shoot 2.5" .410 shells out of mine.

I never watch reality TV, it rots your mind and makes you into a metrosexual.

geologist - I agree with the sentiment against reality TV. I got sucked in because I liked the insight into the Alaska topography. And they had guns and used them (although poorly). Now I feel this urge to go get a pedicure. :)

Wow. I did not know that you could shoot a .410 out of a 45/70. I knew about the TC/Contender .45/410. I like the little carbine they make. An 1895 is one of my "someday" guns.

MCgunner -- I've lived life too close to a freezer. Knowing how to build & use a smoke house is one thing I should learn. Great point.

Tob
June 8, 2009, 01:43 AM
I got caught up 2 episodes ago when the real whining began. To be fair, they are complete non-woodsmen(women), and are being forced to march roughly 20 miles every 2 or 3 days with very little nourishment (their own doing, for not killing enough large game).

However, the episode where they moved on to the next shelter and left the "bear gun" behind, told me that after many days in the wilderness they learned absolutely nothing. Chances are just 100yds from the shelter they left, 20-30 elk appeared, 4 bear, and a frozen mastodon.

And they went hungrier...

interlock
June 8, 2009, 04:13 AM
Be kinda boring to the general public if it was all hunting and fishing all day

This is dead on. If a couple of us went up there and shot a couple of caribou or elk or whatever other big game was up there then sat about eating it and chatting it would make rubbish TV.

Thats why they send people with no idea.

saturno_v
June 8, 2009, 04:29 AM
Sorry, post deleted.

bad_aim_billy
June 8, 2009, 04:47 AM
It's an entertaining show, I love how they eat porcupine lol.

I'd probably have a .22 pistol and an /06 in their situation, but their .410 seems to work well enough...

MCgunner
June 8, 2009, 08:28 AM
I never watch reality TV, it rots your mind and makes you into a metrosexual.

:D Yeah, I've avoided fanny packs, too. :D

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
June 8, 2009, 10:03 AM
Wow, wish I had that channel; sounds interesting - so they have an exemption from the state to hunt any game they like out of season, with no licenses, or what? :scrutiny: If they don't, then they were wise to leave the .45-70 behind for weight savings. If they do, and they're hungry, then they're indeed pretty ummm, "challenged".

What's the incentive/prize for sticking it out?

This is what "Survivor" should have been - quit giving them rice to eat, and give them some hunting weapons. Can't hack it, then go home (or die of starvation / exposure).

TedP
June 8, 2009, 11:19 AM
That's the best part! No prize.

Do it and be happy with themselves or give up and go home.

BHP FAN
June 8, 2009, 12:25 PM
The Africa series they're starting on now is even better.Or worse,if you happen to be the people IN the experiment...

rcmodel
June 8, 2009, 12:40 PM
I'm waiting for an Alaskan Fish & Game guy to show up and arrest them all for hunting without a hunting license or required permits.

Yea! That will be a good show!

rc

cleardiddion
June 8, 2009, 02:05 PM
Heh, I was wondering about that issue.

I wonder if they actually got everything out of the way in terms of paper work?

ReadyontheRight
June 8, 2009, 03:34 PM
The Africa series they're starting on now is even better.Or worse,if you happen to be the people IN the experiment...

That Africa show seems somewhat interesting. I watched a little bit, but I stopped when I realized that they are not carrying guns in the wilds of Africa.

Leave it to TV to give every imaginary bad guy and wacko a gun but keep useful tools out of the hands of real people who could actually use them to survive.

Cosmoline
June 8, 2009, 03:40 PM
I would bring this one:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b52/Gussick/BB941.jpg

It's a Win big bore chambered in .450 Marlin with a choke that screws into the barrel for use with shotshells. It won't chamber .410's, but the shells are similar in power level. And the patterns are fine. It also shoots roundballs over Unique in 1/2" groups at 25 yards.

I lived through my own Alaska Experiment and one of the lessons I learned was less is more, and hauling multiple firearms around is a royal PINA.

chas08
June 8, 2009, 04:36 PM
they were wise to leave the .45-70 behind for weight savings. Unless...heh...they were to really run into a bear. Now that would be entertainment. :D

rcmodel
June 8, 2009, 04:51 PM
I rather imagine the camera crew had plenty of bear protection along just off camera.

Wouldn't do to let one of the stars get et by a bar, now would it!

See, that's the whole problem I have with every one of those action/adventure TV shows.

The actor is dieing trying to climb a mountain.
But the camera crew is already up there filming him about to die.

And not a whimper out of any of them.
Heck, they had to pack all those heavy cameras up there ahead of him.

rc

MCgunner
June 8, 2009, 05:56 PM
I was flippin' channels and came on that African thing. They're standing by a river and bitchin' cause no one had any water. What, you can't BOIL river water? :rolleyes: When I hike, I carry water purification tablets, but I think in Africa, I would wanna boil it. What does it take to build a fire and boil some water? They spent more energy standing around bitchin' they didn't have any water. I flipped it on to find something else. :rolleyes:

caribou
June 8, 2009, 07:40 PM
As a full time arctic hunter here in Northwest Alaska, I would carry a .22 for everything. You can carry lots of shells. Make noise while walking, keep a clean camp, piss around it for a Bearless night and go along the ridges where the brush is not.

If I had what they did, Id cut down some .410 shells for the 45/70 to use, and hunt with a partner and both guns, get up lots of grub and get the walk over in three days....
.22lr , .410, and 45/70 covers it all.

MCgunner
June 8, 2009, 08:31 PM
This will take anything a .44 mag will take to 100 yards. It isn't tack driving typical 1 moa contender accurate considering freebore, but it'll shoot 7 moa which will get you into a moose's lungs at 100 yards. Hopefully, you can get closer. The removable full choke is in front of the muzzle. With it installed, squirrel, rabbit, even birds on the wing are viable targets to 25 yards. If you hunt with a handgun and practice a lot like I do, and maybe have a bipod along on your trip, it can be a very viable survival food getter. Anything you could take with a .22, you could take with this. Yeah, the shells are a little bigger and heavier, but the gun fits in an uncle mike's shoulder rig and is light and handy. You can have it on you 24/7 in the wilds. In case you really ARE attacked by a bear, you probably won't get, but one try anyway. :D

For me, it's a fun gun. But, I've often thought it'd be an almost ideal survival system. Put a rifle stock on it if you have problems shooting a handgun. Yeah, illegal, but hell, if you're out there shooting moose and such out of season anyway.........:what::neener:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=82888&d=1218425814

jim in Anchorage
June 8, 2009, 08:41 PM
Wow, wish I had that channel; sounds interesting - so they have an exemption from the state to hunt any game they like out of season, with no licenses, or what? If they don't, then they were wise to leave the .45-70 behind for weight savings. If they do, and they're hungry, then they're indeed pretty ummm, "challenged".

What's the incentive/prize for sticking it out?

This is what "Survivor" should have been - quit giving them rice to eat, and give them some hunting weapons. Can't hack it, then go home (or die of starvation / exposure).

I saw a couple and they actually follow game laws. Thats why in one episode they had to try to snare a beaver Rather then shoot it.

schlockinz
June 8, 2009, 08:43 PM
If I were hiking in Alaska for this, I'd ditch the 45/70 as well, and I'd rather have a .22

Killing large game there would be a waste due to the size of it, and the fact that you couldn't haul it and necessary gear at the same time. Killing small game is the name of this game, some days you'll be hungry, others just fine.

Its best to just use bear country practices when camping (which almost no one does due to laziness), anyways, odds of killing a charging grizzly are pretty slim with a 45/70, bear mace would be much better.

LibertyCalls
June 8, 2009, 09:08 PM
You know, I had the thing set to record every show( the DVR) and it didn't record the last show! WTHECK!?


Does anyone know if they cancelled it before it finished? Did my DVR just play a dirty trick on me? Did they make it out or have to call the chopper? Did the whiney girl with dark hair make it? ( At one point, I was hoping she'd leave just so I got a break from her whiiiineneeeeeeeeing - I can't imagine how they others felt actually being there!)


And I thought the same thing - they caught one fish, and then stopped and went back to camp and cleaned it and ate it. Hello? The one river they were camped by was FULL OF FISH?! And they had modern fishing gear and actually had several hook ups before catching one. KEEP FISHING, idiots....

of course, these guys probably spent most of their time being "freaked out" by the "woods."

Still, it was a show I was wanting to finish.

Also about the "bear gun" - I was freaking out when that happened - I thought my wife was going to leave the room, because I was yelling at them about being idiots and that it was worth it's weight twice over, compared to some of the other stuff they took along!

anyway, anyone know if the last show aired? thanks.

i've had too much mtn. dew tonight and I am a bit W~i~R~e~d. :)

MCgunner
June 8, 2009, 09:41 PM
Killing large game there would be a waste due to the size of it, and the fact that you couldn't haul it and necessary gear at the same time. Killing small game is the name of this game, some days you'll be hungry, others just fine.

On a TV show, perhaps. But, if it's truly survival, bear and wolf need to eat, too, ya know. If it's truly survival, jerked meat don't weigh you down that much. Kill something BIG, eat all you can at camp, jerk what you can carry, and let the bears and wolves have the rest. Forget your ethics when it's survival. Deal is, if there's NINE people in camp to feed, you can go out and waste a week killing rabbits or kill one BIG animal, have everyone pitch in to clean him, build a smoke house, and jerk the meat while some one cooks up back strap and a few round steaks for the night's supper. Once the meat is jerked, you don't need to hunt and can put on several back packing days without worry for food.

See, this is why they couldn't be very realistic and why I didn't watch any of it, well, that and the WHINNNEEEEY city duffuses that didn't have a clue. ROFL!

I kinda like the Bear Grylles, Les Stroud type shows. They KNOW they can't ethically kill something, they'll tell you that if they were truly in that situation, they would, but such and such a snake is protected, or whatever, so they won't kill it for TV. It's more an educational thing than it is a reality TV thing. I prefer that to reality TV, personally.

Anyone see Man vs Wild the other night when he had Will Ferrell with him? I got interrupted, but what I saw of it was pretty funny, LOL.

drgrenthum
June 8, 2009, 09:57 PM
liberty calls, i was wondering te same thing. I have my dvr set to record all episodes of this show but it as been a coupel weeks since it recorded one and i was wondering if my dvr messed up.

MCgunner
June 8, 2009, 10:26 PM
Jeez, I still use a VCR. Well, I use it maybe 2 times a year when the wife tells me she wants me to record "ER" for her. :rolleyes:

jim in Anchorage
June 8, 2009, 11:04 PM
On a TV show, perhaps. But, if it's truly survival, bear and wolf need to eat, too, ya know. If it's truly survival, jerked meat don't weigh you down that much. Kill something BIG, eat all you can at camp, jerk what you can carry, and let the bears and wolves have the rest. Forget your ethics when it's survival. Deal is, if there's NINE people in camp to feed, you can go out and waste a week killing rabbits or kill one BIG animal, have everyone pitch in to clean him, build a smoke house, and jerk the meat while some one cooks up back strap and a few round steaks for the night's supper. Once the meat is jerked, you don't need to hunt and can put on several back packing days without worry for food

Agree. In the area I think their in[they are never very clear on that] the limit on black bear is 3 a year,no closed season,resident or not. In that open country they are easy to spot,and unlike rabbits and birds they have FAT-absolutely necessary for survival.

schlockinz
June 9, 2009, 12:07 AM
Are you guys talking more about camping in a survival situation?

My thought and experience has been that if anything hits the fan, take the fastest route out, if you have to camp, or are seriously low on food, kill anything <....> that you would need to sustain yourself.

MCgunner
June 9, 2009, 10:58 AM
It's a TV show. Not sure the scenario as I haven't watched much of it, but as I understand it, nothing is hitting any fans and they're given an amount of time to get from point A to point B and given a few tools to survive with. They're all urban morons so I guess that's what makes it interesting, got that "Green Acres" thing going for it. :D God, now I'll have that theme song in my head the rest of the day, LOL!

Les Stroud, I think it was, said on one of his shows, you'll starve to death if you only eat rabbits, eventually. I mean, they'll get you out of a jam, but they're so lean, the lack of fat isn't good for you long term.

MCgunner
June 9, 2009, 11:23 AM
Also, if there are any non-hunters in a groups like this, knowing edible plants of the area can keep them occupied. I would have to study Alaska for edible plants. I'm quite sure they don't have prickly pear up there, LOL, maybe lamb's quarter or dandelion? There are berries up north, too, that won't kill you, seasonal as they may be. Occurs to me that this sort of situation is best tackled as a team and that a good leader with knowledge of the area and woodsman's skills that is acceptable to the group would be necessary. If you have 9 idiots out there arguing, they're all going to starve. Someone with some knowledge would need to take charge.

Cosmoline
June 9, 2009, 01:53 PM
The idea of trying to preserve a whole moose worth of meat with no salt, no freezer and no facilities is very daunting even if you know what you're doing. I'd want at least fifty pounds of salt (pref. more), a set of very sharp knives , an axe and plenty of fresh clean water. Hard to find in an emergency. Bear is even more scary, with its tendency to go south in a big hurry if you don't get the animal bled and the fat trimmed off post haste. With enough salt and clean water it's all possible, without that, I wouldn't want to risk my stomach!

Still, tt would be cool to see a show with the guts (so to speak) to film and chronicle the butchering of a full size moose. It's a meaty cornucopia.

MCgunner
June 9, 2009, 02:22 PM
I'd want the smoke house built before the hunting. Hang the strips soon as they come off the carcass and are pounded. You can jerk meat with minimal salt, I've done it, and it is good for days after. Most of the fat melts away, of course, in jerky. You can make it as dry as you want. Dryer it is, the longer it lasts. Wouldn't have to last that long in this thing, not like it needs to go a whole summer or something, but I'd get it real dry, anyway.

This is what the mountain men did back in the day and they didn't haul 50 lbs of salt with 'em. I don't salt my jerky a lot, use more pepper and such than salt just for the taste and salt to taste. Salt will help the meat dry, but if you pound it flat and hang it for 24 hours in a smoke room, it'll dry nicely. I haven't ever used a smoke HOUSE, just a smoker. LOL I made a few days worth, not a whole gangs worth, but I could scale up in a pinch. It ain't rocket science.

Yeah, you need a good knife or two, sure. Heck, if you got a gun, you're bound to have a knife. You'd need at least a hatchet and preferably an axe, though my Wyoming saw might do, for cutting the timber to build a quicky smoke house. Yes, tools would be necessary.

Bear jerky, well, I don't know, probably like hogs. I don't jerk hogs. But, mostly I worry about parasites in hogs. I like to COOK pork. I'd think bear might be similar, probably want venison or something to jerk, personally, just thinkin' about it.

Of course, if I were in this pack of morons trying to survive and it wasn't a TV show, I'd probably leave 'em to sink or swim and take my chances on my own. ROFL! Trying to feed this bunch of morons might get ME killed. :rolleyes: Seriously, they'd be a liability in the wild as dumb as they all seem to be. I might just pick out the best lookin' woman to go with me, though. ROFL Anyone remember a movie, "A Boy and his Dog?":D

ccsniper
June 9, 2009, 03:35 PM
they just decided to leave their "Bear Gun" - a scoped ".45 caliber" Ruger Single Shot (I am assuming a 45/70) behind in a cabin. Because it's "not good for birds".


Do you know what part of Alaska their in? I might want to find this gun!!!!!

Dr.Rob
June 9, 2009, 04:48 PM
They left the bear gun because after several unsuccessful hunts with a guide winter was blowing in and the bears were likely to be hibernating.

As far as reality shows, it's better than most episodes of Survivor.

As for the new one? They have 2 Masai and a bow and a ghurka kuhkri for protection. I'm betting firearms permits were hard to come by.

As for not drinking the river water? That was saltwater. The whole issue of water was their first argument.

Having worked on a few TV shows and minor films I can tell youa LOT goes on behind the scenes and the 'legal department' takes care of stuff like hunting and fishing licenses. And even Bear Grylls stages stuff for the camera. Les Stroud seemed to do a better job showing 'the real deal' but neither of them seems to grasp SKINNING rodents before cooking them.

Packman
June 9, 2009, 05:34 PM
I'm waiting for an Alaskan Fish & Game guy to show up and arrest them all for hunting without a hunting license or required permits.
-rcmodel


Theres the best reason right there for including fishing kits in all survival kits! Because if you fish without a license, that Fish and Wildlife Commission officer is right behind the bush, and then you're saved!

MCgunner
June 9, 2009, 08:23 PM
Theres the best reason right there for including fishing kits in all survival kits! Because if you fish without a license, that Fish and Wildlife Commission officer is right behind the bush, and then you're saved!

Man, you've got a plan, there. :D

geologist
June 9, 2009, 08:26 PM
ROFL Anyone remember a movie, "A Boy and his Dog?"

When he had her over for dinner in the last scene, he had her for dinner!

caribou
June 9, 2009, 09:18 PM
Too bad we cant reverse this situation.......~~LOL!!~~

I wish they would drop this Alaskan into downtown LA with a Porche and a suitcase full of $$$ as "Survival Gear" and gimme a month to drag my ass back to the Arctic:D

I could seriously entertain you.....:rolleyes:

GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL
June 9, 2009, 09:23 PM
Didn't take time to read all of the posts here but I will tell you what I do know. When you go to the bush make sure you carry a heavy rifle. Yes, a .45-70 U.S. Govt. is big enough. Keep a reserve heavy rifle in camp as a backup if you can..Remember this also. The .22LR is well known as the 'workhorse of the North'..Great White Hunter..ADD ON..There's bones scattered all over Alaska (people stumble across a few of them ever now and again) that belonged to people who decided to leave their heavy rifle in camp rather than carry it because they figured they PROBABLY wouldn't need it. To hell with them. I don't feel sorry for the stupid arrogant *******s...You can bury your meat a few feet down and it will keep because you're below the freeze line. I'm tired. You'vd learned a little from me, now go learn a little more from somebody else. That's how you learn..

xd45gaper
June 9, 2009, 11:50 PM
this show has been around a year or two. I think i saw some of the first season, they had 3 groups of people usually about 2-3 per group. one Father/daughter group who went Moose hunting with a guide but never killed one, they did get a shot at one but missed I would assume they flinched/jerked the trigger lol.

Another group had 3 people and one of those little survival 22lr's. They "hunted" alot but never killed anything. Almost died in a glacier river. The best part was when they found a dead moose and got some meat from it after they fought the crows off (i would have shot them and eat them to) IIRC they only took a few pounds of meat and beat feat in fear of wolves and bears in the area. worst part about there group was they where ALWAYS fighting and very very anti gun the female was afraid of the gun lol

Third group was a husband and wife team i think. They had set up camp really close to a river and it ended up getting flooded out lol so they had to move all there stuff and build a new shelter on higher ground.

I guess it was better than the other reality survial shows like survivor and what ever else is out. They seemed to bitch alot like it was said above though lol.

Grizfire
June 10, 2009, 02:30 AM
They had the .45-70 for bear hunting that they could only go after with the guide that came in. When the guide left, they left the gun as well and I think it was a good choice to leave it for that group. Non of them really knew how to hunt big game. Otherwise its a good gun to have in survival situations.

BTW, the last episode was tonight, they skipped a week, so for those of you who set your DVR...check again.

I look forward to another round of this show.

Wile E Coyote
June 10, 2009, 10:41 AM
Griz makes the best case for why they left the bar gun. Makes the most sense why they left the gun, and I would agree that they would not have been effective with it. I did find myself rolling my eyes at times during the show, but it was leaps-and-bounds better than any slickly made Survivor type crap.

jim in Anchorage
June 15, 2009, 02:54 AM
Just watched one of the Africa ones-not at all the same. No guns-no hunting. The chick is unbelievably irritating-Knows every thing,done this a million times,and acts scared to death when a mouse jumps.

hardluk1
June 15, 2009, 02:07 PM
It's not like any of them were in any real danger, just what they brought on them selves. There were camramen around and guides as back up incase of real trouble and they did have there spot emergence transmitors. Its just intertaning tv. Better than most. We can all set around and pick at what they did wrong. Bottom line is other than falling and breaking something no one was going to die from this adventure. Some of them just know that they are a bit stronger than the average person on the streets for doing it. There were lots of small bits of guidence that could be picked up as the show went along that came from someone off camra too. Must have been hell to know the camra crew and guides were eating ok 50 yards away. No one seems to play attention to that .

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
June 15, 2009, 03:04 PM
So what month(s) did they film the show and what, exactly, was in season during that time? No matter how good the legal department of the show is, the Wildlife Dept ain't gonna let them hunt out of season. Maybe they just broke the law. Unless they never "attempted to take" while they were "hunting".

glockman19
June 15, 2009, 03:43 PM
I would take my Marlin 1894 .44 mag. and S&W 629 5" .44 mag. as minimum protection.

A rifle in .30-06 or .308 would also be on my list.

hardluk1
June 15, 2009, 09:42 PM
During what i watched i know the day where getting shorter and the temps were getting quit a bit colder. The pro hunter was talk'n about how the bears would be gone farly soon and all the berries would be done . So that would be somewhere in the late fall going into winter as temps were getting into the -double digits at the end. This is like reading bikers talk about that dumb a** bike garage show on tv. Whats bad is it took me 3 shows to deside it was not worth watching again. One all bull sh*t and the other just bull. with the filmcrews and proguides and ems guy's all with the show in the back ground along with the helicopter that seemed to be always close by. Kinda like surviver just in the cold north .

yenchisks
June 15, 2009, 10:28 PM
that Africa ones funny ,no gun's ,how much you want to bet that guy caring the spear would throw it away if a loin came along and run leaving the others to fend for them self's lol;)

RevolvingGarbage
June 19, 2009, 03:25 AM
Am I foolish to think my Pardner Pump 12ga. would be the "wonder gun" to have in just about any wilderness?

Seems kinda silly to take a bird gun, a bear gun, and a deer gun when you could just bring the one shotgun and an ammo assortment to cover any game you run across.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
June 24, 2009, 12:43 PM
Finally caught 1.5 episodes of this; interesting (I was on vacation and the cabin we were in at trout camp had more channels than I do at home - go figure!).

Regarding guns & hunting, at one point ol' boy was hunting but was just walking along at high speed (not stalking), and of course a camera crew was nearby, so I don't know how stealthy he thought he was gonna be. At one point, a few white birds flushed out, and he tried to shoot, but no bang - either bad ammo or gun malfunction, or he forgot to load it, or had the safety on - I don't know. Also don't know what kind of gun it was - don't think they said. Anyway, they were quite short on food/nutrition, and definitely could have used a skilled hunter in the group. But without some hunting knowledge, those guns were about as useless as teats on a boar hog.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
June 24, 2009, 12:46 PM
that Africa ones funny ,no gun's ,how much you want to bet that guy caring the spear would throw it away if a loin came along and run leaving the others to fend for them self's lol

If a loin comes along, you just throw a cloth over it and render it harmless. Unless it's a tenderloin, in which case, you just grab it and throw it on the fire to cook it.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
June 24, 2009, 12:49 PM
Am I foolish to think my Pardner Pump 12ga. would be the "wonder gun" to have in just about any wilderness?


Not bad, but see what I wrote in post #14 in this thread:


http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=457927

Here, I'll reprint it with a small change/addition:

The Answer is a 20", 3-barrel drilling with:

1. 3" 12 gauge rifled barrel, with ability to take multiple screw-in choke tube extensions to unspin and choke shotshell shot, but also shoot saboted slugs without the choke tube extensions.
2. Rifled barrel in .223 remington, 1 in 9" twist, with chamber inserts for also shooting .22lr and either .22 magnum or .22 hornet in the rifled barrel, AND the ability to take a screw-in choke tube extension for shooting .22lr and .22mag shotshells, which will unspin and choke the shot, for shooting tweety birds for pot meat and other small game.
3. Full-powered rifle barrel in a caliber such as .270 win, .280 rem, .30-'06, .308, 7mm-08, .260 Rem, .338 Federal, or similar. Actually, since the 12 ga slug barrel handles short ranges / dangerous beasts, I'd want to focus with this one on more of a long-range caliber, so probably 6.5x55 swede, 6.5-.284 Norma, .270 Win, .270 WSM, .280 Rem, 7mm WSM, or 7mm rem mag would be the ticket, I think.

THAT's the ultimate survival gun, as far as surviving off the land goes. You could kill cape buff with hardcast brenneke slugs with the 12 ga in the morning, and then kill a nuthatch for an afternoon snack with the .22lr shotshell barrel, and everything in between, whether walking or flying.

BRad704
June 24, 2009, 03:02 PM
Worked for Daniel Boone...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Kentucky%27s.jpg

Dr.Rob
June 24, 2009, 04:10 PM
If it was all burly he-man survival experts who cake walked through the bush it wouldn't make for very interesting television.

As for Africa? I would have eaten Pasquale by now. That guy is irritating as hell.

But you know what? If you've ever trekked anywhere with a group of people sometimes you butt heads. Whether you are the film crew or a boy scout troop or a bunch of friends on a weekend warrior paintball trip. People who haven't worked/trained together don't act like a team, it takes a while to shake out what everyone is capable of.

moooose102
July 4, 2009, 10:32 AM
i would take my 45/70, and a "papoose" 22 survival rifle. as for the moose, that would be in my game plan also, but honestly, your chances of depending on a moose just walking up to you to be shot really is not all that great. but there should be lots of animals to shoot there. you just might not be able to pick and choose so much what you do, or do not want to eat. IMO, wolf, fox, raccon, whatever. almost anything that moves is fair game in a survival situation! anybody who is dumb enough to quit after only getting one fish or bird, can go ahead and starve to death, unless that is all they could find! i think those shows are there to antogonize those of us who know better.

Skillet
July 14, 2009, 09:34 PM
i would take -
savage .308 bolt
for hip, my cz 75b 9mm
and for smaller game, my savage mk2 .22

jim in Anchorage
July 14, 2009, 10:57 PM
i would take -
savage .308 bolt
for hip, my cz 75b 9mm
and for smaller game, my savage mk2 .22

For what,wilderness car jackers?:D

jordan1948
July 14, 2009, 11:13 PM
My Winchester .44mag trapper. Light enough to not mind packing for days at a time yet powerfull enough for large game and I can load it with .44spl birdshot shells if I want to try shooting birds or smaller animals ie rabbits, squirrels, etc, etc

goon
November 25, 2009, 05:36 PM
that Africa ones funny ,no gun's ,how much you want to bet that guy caring the spear would throw it away if a loin came along and run leaving the others to fend for them self's lol;)

I realize I'm breathing life into an old thread, but the Africa Expedition retracing part of the journey Stanley took to find Livingstone actually kind of sickened me. HM Stanley isn't really someone I'd want to glorify. IIRC, he started his adult life by fighting for both sides in the war between the states - very pricipled, huh?

I missed most of the one with the group hiking through Alaska but also thought it was nuts to leave the big defensive rifle behind. Even if the ammo is heavy, leave most of it and just keep twenty rounds - it's not that much extra weight. Don't be a sissy.
I am catching up on reruns of the Alaska Experiement on NatGeo (I think) right now. Things that I found odd - first is that they didn't give any of those people any firearms training prior to dropping them off in Alaska. The first shots many of them fired seem to have been from the guide's .338 Win Mag. Second is that they only gave each group a single shot .22 rifle. Granted, you may be on a budget, but why not at least give them a 12 gauge pump so they have some defense against a bear, moose, or wolves if needed? Even here in PA, when I go camping or hiking I don't take a step into the woods without a .357. Third, a little instruction would have gone a long way - one group took a shot at a buffalo with their little single shot .22. Bad idea!
I really like the concept of the show. Every time its on I get drawn into it and I even would like to maybe go take a few months at some point in my life and kind of duplicate this experience. But it still wouldn't have hurt to take a day or two to teach these people a little about hunting, guns, and surviving before sending them out to their cabins.

FWIW, I think this over a lot because like I said, I think I might want to go to Alaska and maybe spend a little time in the wilderness some day - something along the lines of what these people did (albeit with the ability to use a rifle and skin a squirrel long before I get there).
I'm wondering if something like a good Ruger rimfire semi-auto or Single Six and a Marlin Guide gun in .45-70 or short barreled pump action 12 gauge with rifle sights and slugs (and a few round of birdshot along for the ride), wouldn't serve pretty well.

LEVRLOVR
November 25, 2009, 06:31 PM
Yeppa, I do believe the 12 gauge "DO ALL" would be the ticket for that situation.

Cosmoline
November 25, 2009, 08:03 PM
FWIW, I think this over a lot because like I said, I think I might want to go to Alaska and maybe spend a little time in the wilderness some day - something along the lines of what these people did (albeit with the ability to use a rifle and skin a squirrel long before I get there).
I'm wondering if something like a good Ruger rimfire semi-auto or Single Six and a Marlin Guide gun in .45-70 or short barreled pump action 12 gauge with rifle sights and slugs (and a few round of birdshot along for the ride), wouldn't serve pretty well.

In my time in the sticks up here, I had a shifting assortment of large bore rifles but the one I did 99% of my actual hunting with was the CZ 452 with irons. If you're doing meat bag hunting your rimfire or small bore will be your No. 1 weapon. A 12 ga will work in a pinch but it's loud and the ammo very very bulky. I could go out with the CZ and a bunch of ammo and come back with grouse, squirrel, hare, etc. Even with my fancy Big Bore I expect if I did that business again it would get left int he cabin in favor of the CZ. The thing just works, no fuss.

The big ones were only needed for the rare moose hunt and I never had much luck on those. For stupid beasts moose seem to know when they're being hunted. Off season they'll be walking ten feet in front of you, then you get the green light from F&G and the moose have suddenly vanished. Oh well. The ones I helped to butcher made me thankful for my bad luck, since getting all that meat out of a nasty swamp would have been hell. There's no end to a moose once you start taking it apart. I liked having a razor sharp axe for that and if I could have managed it I would have used an electric chainsaw with olive oil in the bar oil reservoir.

The natives who live subsistence also rely much more heavily on small bore rifles than big boomers. The .223 is a favorite, though it tends to chew up the meat on small game.

goon
November 26, 2009, 12:13 PM
Cosmoline - thanks alot. As someone who actually lives there, your opinion carries some weight.
I often look at the idea of minimizing, not just for some kind of extended stay somewhere but just because although I really love guns, I just don't have the desire or need to own maybe more than ten or so at most. And I'm pretty sure I could get by just fine with three or four for the rest of my life if I really had to.
I also have a huge amount of respect for the .22 LR. I love my 10/22 but the CZ-452 is like a laser. When I had mine scoped, it almost seemed like cheating to go squirrel hunting with it. The 10/22 has an advantage in that it is stainless and although its not as accurate, it is accurate enough. Still, I doubt I could leave the CZ behind.

Cosmoline
November 26, 2009, 10:08 PM
I wouldn't worry too much about rust on the CZ. Mine got pretty badly rusted due to the cabin effect of bringing a cold gun into a warm cabin, but with some elbow grease and fine steel wool it was fine again. They build them to last.

Pony Express
November 27, 2009, 10:46 PM
12 gauge 12 gauge 12 gauge

I would bring a 12 gauge and a couple of different types of ammo. Slugs and a few types of heavy bird. If I had another person I would have him/her carry a 30-06 and as much ammo as he/she had room for

Gungnir
November 28, 2009, 05:59 AM
I saw a couple and they actually follow game laws. Thats why in one episode they had to try to snare a beaver Rather then shoot it.
Jim, you need to read up on your ADF&G regulations, you can trap in AK with a rifle.

At least in Central where I am, it's perfectly legal to "trap" that way, if you're trapping for fur of course you do get a hole, but otherwise it can be a lot easier on some of the larger fur bearers.

Oh to the OP

I use 223 on critters up to coyotes, 30-06 on Moose and Black Bear, and for defense 12 gauge with Slugs on Grizz. Oh and I shoot spruce grouse with my 40 XDm at about 20 yards on my trail.

(edited to answer the question)

jim in Anchorage
November 29, 2009, 01:50 AM
Jim, you need to read up on your ADF&G regulations, you can trap in AK with a rifle.

At least in Central where I am, it's perfectly legal to "trap" that way, if you're trapping for fur of course you do get a hole, but otherwise it can be a lot easier on some of the larger fur bearers.


You may care to read up yourself and notice the different regs for trapping beaver over just fur.

ReadyontheRight
November 29, 2009, 02:35 AM
Thank you for reviving this thread!

I have since STOPPED watching such trash on TV. Is either the Alaska or Africa show still going?

Man....I think this thread has generated as much basic "duh" survival skills knowledge as anything I've seen on the internet or anywhere. Smoking meat, trapping, "bring a knife no matter what", "bring a .22 no matter what", likelihood of small game vs. large game, moose disappearing during moose season, the gun is only heavy when you don't need it for survival, always bring fishing gear because the fishing police will bust you and, hence, save you :), keep fishing if you catch one fish, learn to eat squirrel, learn to butcher and smoke a moose...

The magic of THR. Thank you again Oleg!

Gungnir
November 29, 2009, 04:00 AM
You may care to read up yourself and notice the different regs for trapping beaver over just fur.
I'm in Unit 20C...

Specifically from 2009-2010 trapping regulations.

You May not take Beaver by any means other than a steel trap or snare except:
* In units 12, 19, 20A, 20C, 20E, 20F, 21, 24, and 25 a firearm or bow and arrow may be used during the seasons and with bag limits established in regulation.

In my case there is also no limit.

Cosmoline
November 29, 2009, 05:24 AM
Guys, if we start debating the state's F&G laws in the array of GMU's and subdivisions we will be here for months!

Anyway, we all know it's the DUCKS who will be skinning the BEAVER this year.

http://www.uoregon.edu/~uoeteam/images/Oregon_Ducks.gif

jim in Anchorage
November 29, 2009, 05:42 AM
I know north of the Alaska range different regs apply, but the one time I watched the show they said they where in the Talkeetnas; unit 13.

Gungnir
November 29, 2009, 07:00 AM
Guys, if we start debating the state's F&G laws in the array of GMU's and subdivisions we will be here for months!

Never a truer word spoken... :)

jim in Anchorage
November 29, 2009, 08:22 AM
Never a truer word spoken...
Which is why you found my 6/08/09 post and said " I need to read up on my ADF&G regulations"? Read yours before you make sharp remarks.

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