Lightsped
October 19, 2003, 12:54 PM
In Matrix Reloaded, around the middle of the movie a small framed stainless auto is used. This gun has four barrels. What is it?
Guns of the Matrix
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Keith
October 19, 2003, 12:58 PM
I don't know, that movie was so awfully bad, I turned it off before it got that far.
Keith
Keith
Black Snowman
October 19, 2003, 01:06 PM
It's a 4 shot derringer. Looked like a .45 Colt. There was a .357 4 shot derringer used in Blade Runner.
I hear they are netoriously unreliable having 4 firing pins and one double action trigger and all. Don't know the brand.
I hear they are netoriously unreliable having 4 firing pins and one double action trigger and all. Don't know the brand.
Tamara
October 19, 2003, 01:16 PM
I believe it was a COP .357, same as the one Leon used in Bladerunner.
JimJD
October 19, 2003, 02:08 PM
Yup, it's the "Cop .357"
Have'nt seen one of those in years.
http://home.pressroom.com/philips/cop_357/cop3571.jpg
Have'nt seen one of those in years.
http://home.pressroom.com/philips/cop_357/cop3571.jpg
MagKnightX
October 19, 2003, 02:16 PM
I was able to identify every gun from that movie besides that one...
George Hill
October 19, 2003, 04:42 PM
http://www.madogre.com/Interviews/Guns_of_the_Matrix.htm
Black Snowman
October 19, 2003, 05:13 PM
I guess "Persephone" has really small hands which lead be to belive it had a larger bore. That and the last person I saw holding one was that huge brute from "Blade Runner" :)
Keith
October 19, 2003, 05:18 PM
How were you guys able to sit through that movie?
This is the only film I can remember where I couldn't finish it. It was just so bad, and so dull, and so stupid...
And the "stunts" - Keanu Reeves jumping around on a wire in slow motion - even grade C, low-budget, awful made-in-Taiwan Kung Fu movies from 1968 have more realistic fighting. I turned it off during the really, really, stupid (as opposed to the merely "really stupid") part where they were fighting on top of a speeding semi trailer - and nobodies hair was getting mussed in the wind. That was pretty bad and stupid.
And then the almost-as-stupid part where the leather-clad heroine jumps out of the window and fires about 200 rounds at the bad guy ten feet away and misses every time.
Bad, bad, stupid, bad, boring, stupid, bad movie!
And how come nobody will wash their clothes? They showed the water treatment plant, but not one person would take their filthy arm-pit stained, nasty clothes off long enough to rinse the fungus and toe-jam out. No, they just pulled their nasty clothes off their funky bodies and made delicate and sensous love, then got dressed again. Who could do that? Who would do that without jumping in the shower first to wash off three months of filth and funk? You roll Britney Spears in a sewer and even a horny teenager is going to say "No thanks!". But not Keanu Reeves - no, he's all over the heroine first chance he gets, nasty funk and all - but then he's Canadian...
And I really don't mind most bad, stupid, bad movies if they just play it for laughs! Desperado comes to mind - a bad, stupid and funny movie that was worth every dime of the $3 I paid to rent it.
But they were SERIOUS in the Matrix - It wasn't supposed to be bad and stupid and funny - you were supposed to find these scenes exciting and scary, rather than laughably stupid and amusing and bad.
I don't get it. Did I mention that this was a really bad, stupid, bad movie?
And do I have a future in film reviews? Or would people think I was a bad, stupid, bad critic?
Keith
This is the only film I can remember where I couldn't finish it. It was just so bad, and so dull, and so stupid...
And the "stunts" - Keanu Reeves jumping around on a wire in slow motion - even grade C, low-budget, awful made-in-Taiwan Kung Fu movies from 1968 have more realistic fighting. I turned it off during the really, really, stupid (as opposed to the merely "really stupid") part where they were fighting on top of a speeding semi trailer - and nobodies hair was getting mussed in the wind. That was pretty bad and stupid.
And then the almost-as-stupid part where the leather-clad heroine jumps out of the window and fires about 200 rounds at the bad guy ten feet away and misses every time.
Bad, bad, stupid, bad, boring, stupid, bad movie!
And how come nobody will wash their clothes? They showed the water treatment plant, but not one person would take their filthy arm-pit stained, nasty clothes off long enough to rinse the fungus and toe-jam out. No, they just pulled their nasty clothes off their funky bodies and made delicate and sensous love, then got dressed again. Who could do that? Who would do that without jumping in the shower first to wash off three months of filth and funk? You roll Britney Spears in a sewer and even a horny teenager is going to say "No thanks!". But not Keanu Reeves - no, he's all over the heroine first chance he gets, nasty funk and all - but then he's Canadian...
And I really don't mind most bad, stupid, bad movies if they just play it for laughs! Desperado comes to mind - a bad, stupid and funny movie that was worth every dime of the $3 I paid to rent it.
But they were SERIOUS in the Matrix - It wasn't supposed to be bad and stupid and funny - you were supposed to find these scenes exciting and scary, rather than laughably stupid and amusing and bad.
I don't get it. Did I mention that this was a really bad, stupid, bad movie?
And do I have a future in film reviews? Or would people think I was a bad, stupid, bad critic?
Keith
Lone_Gunman
October 19, 2003, 05:25 PM
Keith,
The movie is actually too smart for many people to understand; don't feel bad you are not alone.
Have you considered watching professional wrestling on TV?
Many people who dont get The Matrix really enjoy pro wrestling.
The movie is actually too smart for many people to understand; don't feel bad you are not alone.
Have you considered watching professional wrestling on TV?
Many people who dont get The Matrix really enjoy pro wrestling.
shermacman
October 19, 2003, 05:28 PM
The days must be getting shorter up there in Kodiak, Keith! :D More time to spend on the keyboard?! Seriously, you should get a few write-ups for movie reviews, that was hysterical! Especially for lousy movies that the media loves, you should get equal time!
Keith
October 19, 2003, 05:34 PM
The movie is actually too smart for many people to understand; don't feel bad you are not alone.
Yeah, that's probably it! If I was smarter I'd realize why watching Keanu Reeves bounce around clumsily on a wire is great entertainment right up there with a high school production of the Wizard of Oz... Or why people's hair doesn't get mussed on top of a speeding semi trailer. Or why.. oh, never mind!
Keith
Yeah, that's probably it! If I was smarter I'd realize why watching Keanu Reeves bounce around clumsily on a wire is great entertainment right up there with a high school production of the Wizard of Oz... Or why people's hair doesn't get mussed on top of a speeding semi trailer. Or why.. oh, never mind!
Keith
Bigjake
October 19, 2003, 05:52 PM
I liked em both, but Reloaded was a huge disapointment after the first. between the hour long sex/rave scene and the unfollowability (is that a word?), it was kinda weak. i can appriciate the sci/fi fighting and all that, but come on, what UMP has a 400 rnd stick mag and what cadillac CTS (i think?) can stand up to more than half a dozen rnds to the doors without killing the guy on the other side of aforementioned door??
Lightsped
October 19, 2003, 06:26 PM
I truely don't understand either Matrix movie. Where is this "Zion" city? Where is this alternate world that so much of both movies take place in? Neo is human, but what are all the other characters who look human? I would love for someone to explain the basics of Matrix to me.
Anyways, I like both movies for the shootouts and chases. I thought the chase in Reloaded was awesome. The shooting in both movies is top notch. I was thrilled to see the Glock 18 make a appearence!
Anyways, I like both movies for the shootouts and chases. I thought the chase in Reloaded was awesome. The shooting in both movies is top notch. I was thrilled to see the Glock 18 make a appearence!
Beav
October 19, 2003, 06:54 PM
I liked the first one, hated the second. Reloaded just seemed to try too hard.
JimJD
October 19, 2003, 07:16 PM
Oh boy... I was a bit dissapointed with this one, but...
It seems this movie has gone right over the heads of some of our forum members. :-)
See, the world as we know it(in the movie, not real life) is not real.
It's a computer simulation among other things.
Because it is a simulation, the laws of nature, the laws of the universe, etc. can be bent.
That's why you don't see hair flying around on top of the truck-fight "highway" scene.
That's why one of the "twins" UMP has a bottomless magazine.
and so on and so on...
The "twins" are a program, lines of code that can manipulate the laws of the matrix.
As are the agents, the keymaker, the oracle, etc. Agent Smith might be the first program(matrix-wise) to attain a sort of self-awareness.
It appears that Neo(reeves) is the first human being that can bend the matrix to his will. Or is he really the first? Remember the scene towards the end, his conversation with the white haired man? He and the Oracle might be locked in some sort of war.
There were other versions of the matrix before the one that "we" know.
According to some, the "real world" they live in, might also be a version of the matrix, They might not even exist at all except in the mind's eye of an artificial intelligence.
Where is this "Zion" city? Where is this alternate world that so much of both movies take place in? Neo is human, but what are all the other characters who look human?
"Zion" is supposed to exist deep in the earth's crust and caverns.
The "alternate world" exists in the mainframes of the A.I.'s and robots who have taken over the earth. Probably in a centralized location. Could be a global network too. "Zion's" warriors are basically hacking into their networks wirelessly.
As for the other "human" looking characters, I stated above that they are types of programs that exist in the matrix.
If anyone watches the "Animatrix" we are the ones who started the whole mess. We tried to eliminate the robots and A.I.'s who wanted a peaceful co-existance once they became self-aware.
They ran off of the sun, so we scorched the skies to shut them down.
In turn they harvested us to be their new power source.
Crazy, huh?
There is a lot more to the story, a lot more.
We'll all find out this november when the third part is released.
It seems this movie has gone right over the heads of some of our forum members. :-)
See, the world as we know it(in the movie, not real life) is not real.
It's a computer simulation among other things.
Because it is a simulation, the laws of nature, the laws of the universe, etc. can be bent.
That's why you don't see hair flying around on top of the truck-fight "highway" scene.
That's why one of the "twins" UMP has a bottomless magazine.
and so on and so on...
The "twins" are a program, lines of code that can manipulate the laws of the matrix.
As are the agents, the keymaker, the oracle, etc. Agent Smith might be the first program(matrix-wise) to attain a sort of self-awareness.
It appears that Neo(reeves) is the first human being that can bend the matrix to his will. Or is he really the first? Remember the scene towards the end, his conversation with the white haired man? He and the Oracle might be locked in some sort of war.
There were other versions of the matrix before the one that "we" know.
According to some, the "real world" they live in, might also be a version of the matrix, They might not even exist at all except in the mind's eye of an artificial intelligence.
Where is this "Zion" city? Where is this alternate world that so much of both movies take place in? Neo is human, but what are all the other characters who look human?
"Zion" is supposed to exist deep in the earth's crust and caverns.
The "alternate world" exists in the mainframes of the A.I.'s and robots who have taken over the earth. Probably in a centralized location. Could be a global network too. "Zion's" warriors are basically hacking into their networks wirelessly.
As for the other "human" looking characters, I stated above that they are types of programs that exist in the matrix.
If anyone watches the "Animatrix" we are the ones who started the whole mess. We tried to eliminate the robots and A.I.'s who wanted a peaceful co-existance once they became self-aware.
They ran off of the sun, so we scorched the skies to shut them down.
In turn they harvested us to be their new power source.
Crazy, huh?
There is a lot more to the story, a lot more.
We'll all find out this november when the third part is released.
Nando Aqui
October 19, 2003, 08:07 PM
You will hate "Reloaded" if you didn't watch the first "Matrix" - several times, and with the ability, and interest, of being able to rewind and replay. I bought the DVD, and each time I watched it (the first "Matrix") I learned more, and made more sense of it. It is one of my favorites.
That having been said, I did not quite like the second one as much. I also bought the DVD as soon as it came out, and after watching it, realized that it really doesn't need much further understanding of itself. It is based on the first Matrix, and they provide no clues (in detail, anyway) of what is going on, or why, for example, Reeves can jump, etc. as he does in the virtual world that he has learned to control or to live within its abscence of laws of physics as we know then in the real world. But I think they over did it the stunts, etc.
"Reloaded" is as though they have taken several of chapters out of the middle of a book where all the details were provided at the beginning. I hope that "Revolution" (out 05 Nov) will provide a reasonable ending to the saga. Whether the Matrix, its machines and its virtual world disappear, wil be interesting to see.
Alex
That having been said, I did not quite like the second one as much. I also bought the DVD as soon as it came out, and after watching it, realized that it really doesn't need much further understanding of itself. It is based on the first Matrix, and they provide no clues (in detail, anyway) of what is going on, or why, for example, Reeves can jump, etc. as he does in the virtual world that he has learned to control or to live within its abscence of laws of physics as we know then in the real world. But I think they over did it the stunts, etc.
"Reloaded" is as though they have taken several of chapters out of the middle of a book where all the details were provided at the beginning. I hope that "Revolution" (out 05 Nov) will provide a reasonable ending to the saga. Whether the Matrix, its machines and its virtual world disappear, wil be interesting to see.
Alex
Rogelio
October 19, 2003, 08:10 PM
Lone_Gunman
Agree 100% with you. Loved the movie
Agree 100% with you. Loved the movie
Beav
October 19, 2003, 08:12 PM
In turn they harvested us to be their new power source.
I've had a problem with that one for a long time. I would normally let it slide but for a movie that tries to be so smart I can't. Humans as a power source is utter nonsense. Not only do humans not provide enough energy to be practical, they need to be fed energy. If its energy they are after why connect them to a matrix that obviously needs energy to run. Furthermore it is said that if you die in the matrix you die in real life, why would you allow this if you want humans for power. Why not ensure that they live as long as possible so you obtain as much energy as possible? Why is it that the humans on Zion are able to power their massive machines without the need to harvest humans?
Of course all of this could be explained in the next movie, but if it turns out to be some cheesy ending with Neo suddenly waking up or that everything is a matrix, I will throw dung at the movie screen.
I've had a problem with that one for a long time. I would normally let it slide but for a movie that tries to be so smart I can't. Humans as a power source is utter nonsense. Not only do humans not provide enough energy to be practical, they need to be fed energy. If its energy they are after why connect them to a matrix that obviously needs energy to run. Furthermore it is said that if you die in the matrix you die in real life, why would you allow this if you want humans for power. Why not ensure that they live as long as possible so you obtain as much energy as possible? Why is it that the humans on Zion are able to power their massive machines without the need to harvest humans?
Of course all of this could be explained in the next movie, but if it turns out to be some cheesy ending with Neo suddenly waking up or that everything is a matrix, I will throw dung at the movie screen.
Lone_Gunman
October 19, 2003, 08:24 PM
Keith...
Free your mind.
In a nutshell, the world as you know it is a simulation. Your physical body is kept alive in a test tube, and the body heat you generate is used to power the machines that now control the world.
But you don't know this. You think you are at your computer right now reading this post. You think the Coke you are drinking is cold and fizzy. You think you live in a house, and have a job and a family. But it is all an illusion. Everything you see, feel, and believe is an illusion.
The machines have created a simulation of life that we all think we live in. This keeps us happy and oblivious to the reality of our servitude to them. The simulation is a computer program and our brains have been hardwired into it. This program is called The Matrix.
A small group of hackers has discovered this. They have learned the human race is in bondage to the machines. A few have managed to unplug themselves from The Matrix, and have escaped beneath the earth. They have built a city called Zion deep beneath the earth's surface. It is a physical place, not a simulation, or so the viewers think at this point anyway...
The goal of the hackers is to free the humans from the machines and The Matrix. They travel back and to between Zion and the Matrix to do this.
Since the world as we know it is a computer program, the hackers are able to manipulate the code to do super-human things. Some are better at manipulating the code than others. The better they are at this, the more cool things they can do.
Neo (keanu) , it has been prophesied, is the messiah of the human race, who will ultimately overthrow the machine world... or so we have been led to believe ... I have my doubts about this however. I have my own theories of what we will see in Revolution... but I have a feeling it is not what people are expecting.
The Matrix movies are full of religious and philosophical overtones. If you don't believe me, watch the movies about 5 times each, then buy and read a book called The Matrix and Philosophy, and you will be amazed.
Free your mind.
In a nutshell, the world as you know it is a simulation. Your physical body is kept alive in a test tube, and the body heat you generate is used to power the machines that now control the world.
But you don't know this. You think you are at your computer right now reading this post. You think the Coke you are drinking is cold and fizzy. You think you live in a house, and have a job and a family. But it is all an illusion. Everything you see, feel, and believe is an illusion.
The machines have created a simulation of life that we all think we live in. This keeps us happy and oblivious to the reality of our servitude to them. The simulation is a computer program and our brains have been hardwired into it. This program is called The Matrix.
A small group of hackers has discovered this. They have learned the human race is in bondage to the machines. A few have managed to unplug themselves from The Matrix, and have escaped beneath the earth. They have built a city called Zion deep beneath the earth's surface. It is a physical place, not a simulation, or so the viewers think at this point anyway...
The goal of the hackers is to free the humans from the machines and The Matrix. They travel back and to between Zion and the Matrix to do this.
Since the world as we know it is a computer program, the hackers are able to manipulate the code to do super-human things. Some are better at manipulating the code than others. The better they are at this, the more cool things they can do.
Neo (keanu) , it has been prophesied, is the messiah of the human race, who will ultimately overthrow the machine world... or so we have been led to believe ... I have my doubts about this however. I have my own theories of what we will see in Revolution... but I have a feeling it is not what people are expecting.
The Matrix movies are full of religious and philosophical overtones. If you don't believe me, watch the movies about 5 times each, then buy and read a book called The Matrix and Philosophy, and you will be amazed.
George Hill
October 19, 2003, 09:32 PM
You roll Britney Spears in a sewer and even a horny teenager is going to say "No thanks!"
I think you would be suprised at the results of that test... It would be like driving a Mini Cooper... sure, it was fun... but you wouldn't want any of your friends seeing you climb out of it.
The Matrix... awesome movies. Not perfect, by any means... but then again "Perfect" can wind up to be very very boring.
I think you would be suprised at the results of that test... It would be like driving a Mini Cooper... sure, it was fun... but you wouldn't want any of your friends seeing you climb out of it.
The Matrix... awesome movies. Not perfect, by any means... but then again "Perfect" can wind up to be very very boring.
madmike
October 19, 2003, 09:50 PM
Key points even the critics missed: ;)
The Oracle tells Neo she's going out of the Matrix, and offers him candy. He declines. She takes a piece.
It's a RED PILL she takes, folks.
Smith has become rogue, and is a virus--he's sucking up system resources. He uses basic computer logic: if 1 insuf, then 2, if 2 insuf, then 4, 8, 16, 64, 128... He's helping the Matrix at this point, so no trouble comes of it.
He CAN'T beat Neo, no matter how many he loads on. He can't adapt. Neo goes "huh, upgrades" and proceeds to adapt and kick his ???. THAT Was the point of that scene. When Smith is sucking millions of resources, he will THEN be a threat to the Matrix, and summarily flushed.
The Architect is trying to force Neo into a either/or binary world. "You must take this door or this door." No...he could attack the program, or the architect...or...
The rogue programs are an underworld, working for their own ends, trusted by none.
The rave scene was designed to counterpoint humanity at its crudest versus the decadence of the Matrix. Plot device.
The whole thing was simultaneously existential and anti-existential. I came out of there denying the universe existed. ;)
The "reality" of the Matrix is subjective...that was the point of the first movie...
As to humans as batteries...no, they're NEURISTORS. The Matrix depends on humans to exist. It doesn't dare get rid of them. The battery bit is cover story.
Brilliant, brilliant universe.
As a SF writer myself, I genuflect in awe before the story. It will be a standard for others for decades, I predict.
Though I do wonder about the Skorpion in the first movie, shown with 5.56 cases hitting the ground...
And come on, who didn't get aroused at "Guns, lots of guns" in the first movie?
The Oracle tells Neo she's going out of the Matrix, and offers him candy. He declines. She takes a piece.
It's a RED PILL she takes, folks.
Smith has become rogue, and is a virus--he's sucking up system resources. He uses basic computer logic: if 1 insuf, then 2, if 2 insuf, then 4, 8, 16, 64, 128... He's helping the Matrix at this point, so no trouble comes of it.
He CAN'T beat Neo, no matter how many he loads on. He can't adapt. Neo goes "huh, upgrades" and proceeds to adapt and kick his ???. THAT Was the point of that scene. When Smith is sucking millions of resources, he will THEN be a threat to the Matrix, and summarily flushed.
The Architect is trying to force Neo into a either/or binary world. "You must take this door or this door." No...he could attack the program, or the architect...or...
The rogue programs are an underworld, working for their own ends, trusted by none.
The rave scene was designed to counterpoint humanity at its crudest versus the decadence of the Matrix. Plot device.
The whole thing was simultaneously existential and anti-existential. I came out of there denying the universe existed. ;)
The "reality" of the Matrix is subjective...that was the point of the first movie...
As to humans as batteries...no, they're NEURISTORS. The Matrix depends on humans to exist. It doesn't dare get rid of them. The battery bit is cover story.
Brilliant, brilliant universe.
As a SF writer myself, I genuflect in awe before the story. It will be a standard for others for decades, I predict.
Though I do wonder about the Skorpion in the first movie, shown with 5.56 cases hitting the ground...
And come on, who didn't get aroused at "Guns, lots of guns" in the first movie?
Justin
October 19, 2003, 09:54 PM
Not only do humans not provide enough energy to be practical, they need to be fed energy. If its energy they are after why connect them to a matrix that obviously needs energy to run.In the first movie, Morpheus has a bit of exposition where he mentions that the energy taken from the humans is combined with a form of fusion to give the robots all the energy they need. This is never explained, and I simply assume it's one of the things for which you willfully suspend your disbelief in order to enjoy the movie.
Furthermore it is said that if you die in the matrix you die in real life, why would you allow this if you want humans for power. Because the machines don't care about you. If you die, it doesn't matter because you will simply be flushed away and replaced by one of the people being grown in their fields. If you watch the first movie again, there's a shot that shows a bunch of the machines harvesting human embryos to then be implanted into the matrix.
On another note, I agree that Matrix Reloaded wasn't quite as good as the first one. But to be completely honest, we were all expecting it. Remember the first time you saw the first Matrix movie? I dunno about y'all, but I was blown away. It was as if someone had taken everything I'd ever wanted to see in a good action/sci-fi move, added some other cool stuff to it, and put it to film.
Once you've blown everyone away with something incredibly new and innovative it makes your sophomore effort just that much more difficult of a followup.
While Reloaded was a flawed film, I still enjoyed it nonetheless and look very much forward to seeing part III. (BTW, if you rent the Animatrix it explains a few more things, like that annoying kid that kept following Neo around in Zion.)
Furthermore it is said that if you die in the matrix you die in real life, why would you allow this if you want humans for power. Because the machines don't care about you. If you die, it doesn't matter because you will simply be flushed away and replaced by one of the people being grown in their fields. If you watch the first movie again, there's a shot that shows a bunch of the machines harvesting human embryos to then be implanted into the matrix.
On another note, I agree that Matrix Reloaded wasn't quite as good as the first one. But to be completely honest, we were all expecting it. Remember the first time you saw the first Matrix movie? I dunno about y'all, but I was blown away. It was as if someone had taken everything I'd ever wanted to see in a good action/sci-fi move, added some other cool stuff to it, and put it to film.
Once you've blown everyone away with something incredibly new and innovative it makes your sophomore effort just that much more difficult of a followup.
While Reloaded was a flawed film, I still enjoyed it nonetheless and look very much forward to seeing part III. (BTW, if you rent the Animatrix it explains a few more things, like that annoying kid that kept following Neo around in Zion.)
Justin
October 19, 2003, 09:59 PM
Why is it that the humans on Zion are able to power their massive machines without the need to harvest humans? This is never addressed in any of the movies, but my assumption would be that if Zion is located deep underground, near the Earth's core, they'd probably have some way of pulling energy from it.
madmike
October 19, 2003, 10:31 PM
This is never addressed in any of the movies,
Yes it is. Geothermal and fusion.
Even if they don't fix the "humans as batteries" thing, which I expect they will, that's ONE error in a movie that's otherwise very internally consistent.
Compare to any episode of Star Drek. :barf:
Or Space Above and Beyond Belief...
Yes it is. Geothermal and fusion.
Even if they don't fix the "humans as batteries" thing, which I expect they will, that's ONE error in a movie that's otherwise very internally consistent.
Compare to any episode of Star Drek. :barf:
Or Space Above and Beyond Belief...
timbo
October 19, 2003, 10:33 PM
Reloaded was an entertaining movie but they tried too hard to put action into it. The Matrix series will be a rare and fortunate trilogy in that some of the action is really bad and over done but is lucky to have a solid story to it. Everyone with a gun in each hand doesn't much impress me. Neo fighting agents for 20 minutes and flying away afterward doesn't impress me. I guess I'm just not one for over-the-top action sequences. I'm a firm believer that a fight between two skilled combatants, be it with guns, knives, or bare hands, does not last long.
There is however a lot of story there to watch and so I'm looking forward to the next movie.
There is however a lot of story there to watch and so I'm looking forward to the next movie.
Andrew Wyatt
October 19, 2003, 10:45 PM
HERO with John Ringo, June 2004 from Baen Books
I know this is off topic and whatnot, but John Ringo is my favorite Scifi author. Ask him next time you have contact with him why the germans had G3s instead of g36es on Diess.
I know this is off topic and whatnot, but John Ringo is my favorite Scifi author. Ask him next time you have contact with him why the germans had G3s instead of g36es on Diess.
madmike
October 19, 2003, 11:02 PM
I just asked him, awaiting a reply. I would guess he hadn't paid attention to the G36...and the G3 is still very much in use. Or....
Posleen are easier to stop with 7.62. Note that in "When the Devil Dances" the OICW has been converted to 7.62.
"This is what happens when you let rednecks play with antimatter." :D
Posies are tough buggers. We had whole threads on Baen's forum about stopping power.
I'm a firm believer that a fight between two skilled combatants, be it with guns, knives, or bare hands, does not last long.
That was EXACTLY the point, Timbo. They are working off SUBJECTIVE REALITY. They can take that kind of kicking around because they EXPECT to. Normal people die fast, Matrix controllers take much more clobbering, and Agents/Neo are damned near invincible. Because they BELIEVE they are. Faith. Ever heard of it? Neo even died, until he thought, "Hey, I'm not Mr Anderson, I'm Neo. And this SOB can't stop me with figmentary bullets, even if he does want me to think they're .50 AE."
That's what makes the movies totally consistent. No real person COULD take that kind of hitting. But put it in that context, and it's believable.
Posleen are easier to stop with 7.62. Note that in "When the Devil Dances" the OICW has been converted to 7.62.
"This is what happens when you let rednecks play with antimatter." :D
Posies are tough buggers. We had whole threads on Baen's forum about stopping power.
I'm a firm believer that a fight between two skilled combatants, be it with guns, knives, or bare hands, does not last long.
That was EXACTLY the point, Timbo. They are working off SUBJECTIVE REALITY. They can take that kind of kicking around because they EXPECT to. Normal people die fast, Matrix controllers take much more clobbering, and Agents/Neo are damned near invincible. Because they BELIEVE they are. Faith. Ever heard of it? Neo even died, until he thought, "Hey, I'm not Mr Anderson, I'm Neo. And this SOB can't stop me with figmentary bullets, even if he does want me to think they're .50 AE."
That's what makes the movies totally consistent. No real person COULD take that kind of hitting. But put it in that context, and it's believable.
Justin
October 19, 2003, 11:03 PM
Yes it is. Geothermal and fusion. Did they actually say that? I don't remember it. Oh well.
As for the really, really, really over-the-top action sequences and effects seen in Reloaded, part of the reason for this was due to the fact that the Wachowski bros. were not happy that after the first movie came out, everyone and their pet monkey was ripping off the 'bullet-time' effect. (Yes, I know there were flow-mo shots used before The Matrix, but there's a very large technical difference between the two.)
So the Wachowski bros. wanted a lot of the effects in Matrix: Reloaded to be so technically involved and over-the-top that no one would really be able to duplicate them. IIRC, one of the effects companies hired to do the effects for Reloaded actually went bankrupt because they had to let their render farm sit and chunk on a number of the effects for over a year!
As for the really, really, really over-the-top action sequences and effects seen in Reloaded, part of the reason for this was due to the fact that the Wachowski bros. were not happy that after the first movie came out, everyone and their pet monkey was ripping off the 'bullet-time' effect. (Yes, I know there were flow-mo shots used before The Matrix, but there's a very large technical difference between the two.)
So the Wachowski bros. wanted a lot of the effects in Matrix: Reloaded to be so technically involved and over-the-top that no one would really be able to duplicate them. IIRC, one of the effects companies hired to do the effects for Reloaded actually went bankrupt because they had to let their render farm sit and chunk on a number of the effects for over a year!
madmike
October 19, 2003, 11:06 PM
No one can dodge bullets, either, Timbo ;)
But it would be a short, boring movie if the Agents shot everyone, the end.
But it would be a short, boring movie if the Agents shot everyone, the end.
Loach
October 19, 2003, 11:10 PM
The story is it. I understand that it is based on a comic book series. I would like to get my hands on some of those comics. Anyone know much about them?
I'm willing to suspend my disbelief in order to buy the 'combined with a type of fusion' bit, but most everything else fits in to the 'matrix' universe.
Like others here, I was disappointed by Reloaded, but not because of the story, but rather because of the over-emphasis on effects. I've noticed that I take my 'breaks' when watchng the DVD while the action sequences are going on. I'd rather be there for the important dialog.
Flawed, certainly, but still one of the best SF 'franchises' out there.
Honestly, I found myself so enthralled in the story, that I really wasn't paying attention to the guns being used. Seems weird, but i found myself paying more attention to the weapons being used in the 'real' world rather than those in the 'matrix' as those are the one that are foreign to me. The 'mechwarrior' type getups were just plain cool. I can't wait to see how they play out in revolutions.
A certain amount of 'suspension of disbelief' is necessary to buy-in to the matrix universe, but very little if the basic assumptions are carried out to their logical conclusion.
I'm willing to suspend my disbelief in order to buy the 'combined with a type of fusion' bit, but most everything else fits in to the 'matrix' universe.
Like others here, I was disappointed by Reloaded, but not because of the story, but rather because of the over-emphasis on effects. I've noticed that I take my 'breaks' when watchng the DVD while the action sequences are going on. I'd rather be there for the important dialog.
Flawed, certainly, but still one of the best SF 'franchises' out there.
Honestly, I found myself so enthralled in the story, that I really wasn't paying attention to the guns being used. Seems weird, but i found myself paying more attention to the weapons being used in the 'real' world rather than those in the 'matrix' as those are the one that are foreign to me. The 'mechwarrior' type getups were just plain cool. I can't wait to see how they play out in revolutions.
A certain amount of 'suspension of disbelief' is necessary to buy-in to the matrix universe, but very little if the basic assumptions are carried out to their logical conclusion.
Balog
October 19, 2003, 11:11 PM
I enjoyed the first. Haven't seen the second, so I won't comment. But to all those getting sprung by an entertaining but massively illogical movie, I'd refer you to the excellence that is Maddox
http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=matrix2
http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=matrix2
Keith
October 19, 2003, 11:12 PM
And speaking of Desperado (which we were sort of, since I did mention it in my first note...); I just got back from watching Once Upon A Time In Mexico, which (as we all know), is the sequel to Desperado.
It's disappointing in some ways - Salma Hayek fails to get naked, AGAIN! Yet, it's really an excellent film within its genre (bad, stupid, bad movies...) because the director is smart enough to KNOW he's making a bad, stupid, bad movie and plays it for laughs. Which is all I ask, after all!
The plot is ripped off from Shakespeare - a Mariachi band kills most of Mexico with machine guns. Yet, they do it with a certain amount of latin flair, which is something Shakespeare left out of all his Mexican musical action-adventure exploding head plays. And of course it has Salma Hayek, who even though she forgets to get naked, does swivel her hips seductively when she isn't blowing peoples heads off. And the movie is extremely funny and has some of the best machine gun and exploding head work since, well... since Desperado!
Did I mention the exploding heads and machine guns?
Oh yeah, and it's quite funny!
Two thumbs up!
Keith
It's disappointing in some ways - Salma Hayek fails to get naked, AGAIN! Yet, it's really an excellent film within its genre (bad, stupid, bad movies...) because the director is smart enough to KNOW he's making a bad, stupid, bad movie and plays it for laughs. Which is all I ask, after all!
The plot is ripped off from Shakespeare - a Mariachi band kills most of Mexico with machine guns. Yet, they do it with a certain amount of latin flair, which is something Shakespeare left out of all his Mexican musical action-adventure exploding head plays. And of course it has Salma Hayek, who even though she forgets to get naked, does swivel her hips seductively when she isn't blowing peoples heads off. And the movie is extremely funny and has some of the best machine gun and exploding head work since, well... since Desperado!
Did I mention the exploding heads and machine guns?
Oh yeah, and it's quite funny!
Two thumbs up!
Keith
Justin
October 19, 2003, 11:12 PM
Larry and Andy Wachowski did originally hail from the world of comic books, but 'The Matrix' series is not based on any comic book series. There have been, however, a number of spinoffs from the movie, including comics (many available online at www.thematrix.com) and the aforementioned 'Animatrix' series of short animations.
Keith
October 19, 2003, 11:13 PM
The Matrix movies are full of religious and philosophical overtones. If you don't believe me, watch the movies about 5 times each, then buy and read a book called The Matrix and Philosophy, and you will be amazed.
Who says Star Trek isn't a gateway drug to the hard stuff, like Matrix...
Keith
Who says Star Trek isn't a gateway drug to the hard stuff, like Matrix...
Keith
madmike
October 19, 2003, 11:24 PM
Balog: Maddox doesn't impress me. I agree on Keanu's behind. However:
his acting is good enough for Kenneth Brannagh, and good enough for several bills large per movie. And "Keanu" is Hawaiian. Easy to check online.
For a viciously gun-related commentary on a different and atrocious movie, however, may I recommend:
http://www.sff.net/people/doylemacdonald/r_startro.htm
A new kind of enemy!
A new kind of war!
Same old kind of movie!
Yes, kids, it's time to look at
STARSHIP B/L/O/O/P/E/R/S/ TROOPERS
This is a movie about the First Interstellar War. The Bug War. Men against Arachnids. Humanity hard-pressed! Heroes! Villains! Special effects!
Just another bug hunt
We start off with a news report from the surface of the planet Klendathu, the bugs' home world, where you will instantaneously flash on that Korean-war era song,
"Hear the sound of runnin' feet
It's the old First Cav in full retreat
They're haulin' ???,
Not savin' gas,
They'll soon be gone."
Things are bad and getting worse, as a mob of Mobile Infantry types mill about, getting in each others' lines of fire, screaming things like "Run for your life!" or words to that effect. It isn't until later in the film that you discover that milling about is the only formation they practice regularly, and aimless running is their chief tactical mode.........
his acting is good enough for Kenneth Brannagh, and good enough for several bills large per movie. And "Keanu" is Hawaiian. Easy to check online.
For a viciously gun-related commentary on a different and atrocious movie, however, may I recommend:
http://www.sff.net/people/doylemacdonald/r_startro.htm
A new kind of enemy!
A new kind of war!
Same old kind of movie!
Yes, kids, it's time to look at
STARSHIP B/L/O/O/P/E/R/S/ TROOPERS
This is a movie about the First Interstellar War. The Bug War. Men against Arachnids. Humanity hard-pressed! Heroes! Villains! Special effects!
Just another bug hunt
We start off with a news report from the surface of the planet Klendathu, the bugs' home world, where you will instantaneously flash on that Korean-war era song,
"Hear the sound of runnin' feet
It's the old First Cav in full retreat
They're haulin' ???,
Not savin' gas,
They'll soon be gone."
Things are bad and getting worse, as a mob of Mobile Infantry types mill about, getting in each others' lines of fire, screaming things like "Run for your life!" or words to that effect. It isn't until later in the film that you discover that milling about is the only formation they practice regularly, and aimless running is their chief tactical mode.........
Balog
October 20, 2003, 12:39 AM
madmike wrote: Balog: Maddox doesn't impress me.
Sorry to hear that. I think he's pretty amusing. Apparently a fair number of people agree http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=owned . And as much as I love Ken B's "Much Ado" I have to agree Keanu can't act his way out of a paper bag. If getting paid well is an indication of talent then N*Sync is god-like. I posted that link for amusement, not to make a point. I loved the Matrix when it came out, and for a long time thereafter. But eventually the logical flaws started bugging me. Maybe it was just that seeing it so much made the "suspension of disbelief" more difficult. Of well, to each their own.
Sorry to hear that. I think he's pretty amusing. Apparently a fair number of people agree http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=owned . And as much as I love Ken B's "Much Ado" I have to agree Keanu can't act his way out of a paper bag. If getting paid well is an indication of talent then N*Sync is god-like. I posted that link for amusement, not to make a point. I loved the Matrix when it came out, and for a long time thereafter. But eventually the logical flaws started bugging me. Maybe it was just that seeing it so much made the "suspension of disbelief" more difficult. Of well, to each their own.
madmike
October 20, 2003, 06:04 AM
Maddox is good at tossing profanity around. I'm sure that makes him popular. But really, there was little insight in his critique. JMHO.
As to "logical flaws," I'm trying to figure out "logical flaws" in a story whose premise is "whatever you believe sufficiently will happen." And I'm coming up blank. The only real logical flaw is that stupid human = battery thing. Either they'll fix that in Revolutions, or else it's _ONE_ inconsistency in a Hollywood production...either way, astounding.
And they're very popular movies with critical acclaim (The first one, at least) that have good guys packing lots of guns. Worth supporting just for that.
No, $$ alone doesn't make one good. But is N'Sync still around? Will they be around in 5 years? Reeves has been getting roles since the 80s. He is typecast--who isn't? And he's no Hugo Weaving. But he's not bad at what he does.
Now, you want a movie full of logical holes...SPEED. Stupid, stupid movie. But moved so fast I didn't care for 2 hours.
And Johnny Mnemonic was pathetic, especially as Gibson wrote his own screenplay.
As to "logical flaws," I'm trying to figure out "logical flaws" in a story whose premise is "whatever you believe sufficiently will happen." And I'm coming up blank. The only real logical flaw is that stupid human = battery thing. Either they'll fix that in Revolutions, or else it's _ONE_ inconsistency in a Hollywood production...either way, astounding.
And they're very popular movies with critical acclaim (The first one, at least) that have good guys packing lots of guns. Worth supporting just for that.
No, $$ alone doesn't make one good. But is N'Sync still around? Will they be around in 5 years? Reeves has been getting roles since the 80s. He is typecast--who isn't? And he's no Hugo Weaving. But he's not bad at what he does.
Now, you want a movie full of logical holes...SPEED. Stupid, stupid movie. But moved so fast I didn't care for 2 hours.
And Johnny Mnemonic was pathetic, especially as Gibson wrote his own screenplay.
Dionysusigma
October 20, 2003, 06:34 AM
Nando Aqu�*, madmike, I must side with y'all. To toss this back on track, though, don't you think it was rather odd how even though a SPAS-12 was used in the lobby scene of the first one, EVERYONE had to pump it?? You'd think that the SWAT would have loads hot enough to automatically cycle the thing... and MadOgre forgot the scene before the "upgrades" in Reloaded... the big guy's sporting a Benelli Nova H20.
(Also, about Zion's defense Mechs... notice how thin the ammo feed chutes are, and how large the bore diameter is. Hmmm... :p )
First one? Great movie. Second one? Made the first one look like a cheap indie film from New Jersey ;) . Third one, then, must statistically be downright amazing.
(Also, about Zion's defense Mechs... notice how thin the ammo feed chutes are, and how large the bore diameter is. Hmmm... :p )
First one? Great movie. Second one? Made the first one look like a cheap indie film from New Jersey ;) . Third one, then, must statistically be downright amazing.
CZ-100
October 20, 2003, 09:17 AM
This Movie was TERRIBLE! I could not watch the whole thing.
:banghead:
:banghead:
buzz_knox
October 20, 2003, 09:20 AM
He CAN'T beat Neo, no matter how many he loads on. He can't adapt. Neo goes "huh, upgrades" and proceeds to adapt and kick his ???.
Neo mentions the upgrades when fighting a different agent, not Smith. Neo defeated this agent and then Smith (Prime?) confronts him.
The action is over the top until you realize that what the rebels (as opposed to Zionists. which would be a disturbing term to throw around) and agents are doing is taking advantage of a loophole in the system. There is a physics model set up in the matrix to control everything, and people buy into it. Both rebels and agents bend the rules to allow enhanced performance, but they are still constrained by the model to some extent because to go to far outside of it would lead to people questioning what is going on. If you see a guy pick up a car, there's a major issue of "that can't happen." But if you see a guy spinning in mid air to do a kick, people have been indoctrinated by the movies to think "that can happen because I've seen it on screen." So, action tends to be overdone in the fashion of a comic book because that allows for enhanced perfomance within the possible limits of the system.
What Neo did was to say screw you to the limits and do as he generally pleases, although he himself is constrained. Whether he is constrained by the system or by his own preconceptions of what is possible remains to be seen.
Neo mentions the upgrades when fighting a different agent, not Smith. Neo defeated this agent and then Smith (Prime?) confronts him.
The action is over the top until you realize that what the rebels (as opposed to Zionists. which would be a disturbing term to throw around) and agents are doing is taking advantage of a loophole in the system. There is a physics model set up in the matrix to control everything, and people buy into it. Both rebels and agents bend the rules to allow enhanced performance, but they are still constrained by the model to some extent because to go to far outside of it would lead to people questioning what is going on. If you see a guy pick up a car, there's a major issue of "that can't happen." But if you see a guy spinning in mid air to do a kick, people have been indoctrinated by the movies to think "that can happen because I've seen it on screen." So, action tends to be overdone in the fashion of a comic book because that allows for enhanced perfomance within the possible limits of the system.
What Neo did was to say screw you to the limits and do as he generally pleases, although he himself is constrained. Whether he is constrained by the system or by his own preconceptions of what is possible remains to be seen.
shane184
October 20, 2003, 09:39 AM
Why is it that we asume the humans are being used for power. The human brain is far more capable of storing and processing info than any computer. We are probably just being used as the computer guts. What I don't get in the reloaded movie is why they had to bore down to the people when obviously they were traveling back and forth through some kind of passage.
buzz_knox
October 20, 2003, 09:58 AM
Why is it that we asume the humans are being used for power. The human brain is far more capable of storing and processing info than any computer. We are probably just being used as the computer guts. What I don't get in the reloaded movie is why they had to bore down to the people when obviously they were traveling back and forth through some kind of passage.
1. It's made clear in the first movie that we are used as batteries, hence the "coppertop" remark to Neo. Whether this is true or not is highly suspect.
2. In Reloaded, they state that by drilling down, the machines bypass all the defenses set up in the tunnels. It apparently will take less time to drill than it will to set up additional defenses. So, no need to assault the existing defenses, which appear to be capable of withstanding the machines, given that they have held up this long and the machines were attempting to obtain Morpheus' access codes in the first film.
1. It's made clear in the first movie that we are used as batteries, hence the "coppertop" remark to Neo. Whether this is true or not is highly suspect.
2. In Reloaded, they state that by drilling down, the machines bypass all the defenses set up in the tunnels. It apparently will take less time to drill than it will to set up additional defenses. So, no need to assault the existing defenses, which appear to be capable of withstanding the machines, given that they have held up this long and the machines were attempting to obtain Morpheus' access codes in the first film.
SnWnMe
October 20, 2003, 10:10 AM
While I was watching the The Animatrix, I began thinking of how one of the shorts, the one with the girl looking for her cat, also explains away every unexplained phenomena that we encounter here in "real life". There are flaws in the Matirx and sometimes these manifest as strange occurences.
So now we know what UFOs really are:eek:
So now we know what UFOs really are:eek:
Balog
October 20, 2003, 10:20 AM
madmike: Maybe I should say "inconsistencies." For example, an agent has good enough reflexes to dodge bullets; however, he is unable to move his head while Trinity says her clever line, pulls the trigger, the sear releases, the hammer moves forward etc. A punch powerful enough to break concrete will kill you as surely as being hit by a train. This is actually fairly simple physics. Energy = mass x velocity squared. The amount of energy generated by a heavy object moving a couple thousand feet per second concentrated in a maybe 3" by 4" area would punch a hole through Morpheus or Neo. If agents can move their entire body fast enough to dodge bullets, why can't they move their legs fast enough to really outrun people ( especially those who are still plugged in)? Just things like that.
Oh and the comment "But really, there was little insight in his critique." simply illustrates that you are evaluating the piece in the wrong light. It's not a serious review. It's comedy on the Dave Barry/ Far Side mold. In other words, overstatement carried to a ridiculous extreme. It derives it's humour not from an insight into the subject but simply from it's style. To say it's lacking as a review is like saying Impressionist paintings are all blurry. While this is correct, pointing to it as a flaw demonstrates a lack of comprehension of the style. While not everything he writes is A+ material, a number of his pieces are quite amusing.
Oh and the comment "But really, there was little insight in his critique." simply illustrates that you are evaluating the piece in the wrong light. It's not a serious review. It's comedy on the Dave Barry/ Far Side mold. In other words, overstatement carried to a ridiculous extreme. It derives it's humour not from an insight into the subject but simply from it's style. To say it's lacking as a review is like saying Impressionist paintings are all blurry. While this is correct, pointing to it as a flaw demonstrates a lack of comprehension of the style. While not everything he writes is A+ material, a number of his pieces are quite amusing.
FireInTheHole
October 20, 2003, 10:20 AM
When they shifted from the "white room" of the control crew to what zion was really like, that was a big shocker....
So what was the deal with the annoying guy who followed neo around?
So what was the deal with the annoying guy who followed neo around?
buzz_knox
October 20, 2003, 10:28 AM
There are flaws in the Matirx and sometimes these manifest as strange occurences.
Bingo. In the first movie, deja vu was explained as a glitch showing that the system had been reset after changes made.
With the old programs serving the Merovingian, we see that the legends of of vampires, werewolves, ghosts, etc., were intended to explain away some programs' abilities. Either that, or the programs adapted their appearance to fit the legend. The true explanation depends on which theory you adopt: that the Matrix copies human history, or that most of what we consider human history has actually taken place within some version of the Matrix.
Bingo. In the first movie, deja vu was explained as a glitch showing that the system had been reset after changes made.
With the old programs serving the Merovingian, we see that the legends of of vampires, werewolves, ghosts, etc., were intended to explain away some programs' abilities. Either that, or the programs adapted their appearance to fit the legend. The true explanation depends on which theory you adopt: that the Matrix copies human history, or that most of what we consider human history has actually taken place within some version of the Matrix.
Sean Smith
October 20, 2003, 10:41 AM
I'm not convinced that The Matrix movies are half as clever as they pretend to be. They strike me (especially the 2nd movie) as just being vague, as opposed to being deep. At most they are sort of a sci-fi Rorshach test... a formless mess that the mind (especially the sci-fi geek mind) tries to impose some sort of deep underlying order on ex post facto.
I still like 'em though. :evil:
I still like 'em though. :evil:
buzz_knox
October 20, 2003, 10:50 AM
At most they are sort of a sci-fi Rorshach test... a formless mess that the mind (especially the sci-fi geek mind) tries to impose some sort of deep underlying order on ex post facto.
I believe there's a bit more form underlying it than that. But you are correct to an extent. The producers have refused to give any interviews or commentary on the subject, saying that they wanted individuals to come to draw out the symbolism for themselves. I presume (hope?) that much will be explained in the Revolutions.
I believe there's a bit more form underlying it than that. But you are correct to an extent. The producers have refused to give any interviews or commentary on the subject, saying that they wanted individuals to come to draw out the symbolism for themselves. I presume (hope?) that much will be explained in the Revolutions.
jthuang
October 20, 2003, 11:02 AM
Bought Reloaded on Saturday. Saw it on opening night -- definitely not as good as the first Matrix but tolerable. Agree that several scenes were too long -- especially the Zion scenes -- but that's the benefit of the DVD version, you can fast forward through the extraneous scenes and get to the combat scenes. :)
[Edited to add: If you're going to buy the DVD, make sure you get the one with the bonus DVD, for a total of THREE discs. Not all the versions come with the bonus DVD -- and the price is the same (bought mine at Best Buy).]
Or Space Above and Beyond Belief...
Ack! How can you speak ill of a TV show featuring R. Lee Ermey as a DI? :D
Justin
[Edited to add: If you're going to buy the DVD, make sure you get the one with the bonus DVD, for a total of THREE discs. Not all the versions come with the bonus DVD -- and the price is the same (bought mine at Best Buy).]
Or Space Above and Beyond Belief...
Ack! How can you speak ill of a TV show featuring R. Lee Ermey as a DI? :D
Justin
MaterDei
October 20, 2003, 12:02 PM
After seeing Zion and its inhabitants (especially after the rave scene), I'm baffled as to why the audience should have any emotional attachment to seeing Zion saved at all.
I'm rooting for the machines!
I'm rooting for the machines!
Keith
October 20, 2003, 12:04 PM
It doesn't matter whether the idea behind the Matrix is clever or deeply insightful.
What matters is whether the movie was any good. And, this movie is a stinker! A well written sequel stands on its own, or at least the writer deftly refers back to events in the earlier film to remind the viewer of what is happening, and why. Reloaded does none of that. It just throws you into this turgid mess assuming that the average viewer is going to have the entire pantheon of characters and events committed to memory.
And as bad as the writing is, the action sequences are even worse. Reeves (in particular) is not an athlete, and his scenes on wires are simply pathetic! He just gets hoisted around at half-speed, clumsily doing little rolls, etc, while trying to look cool with his long black coat and sunglasses. I've seen really bad Kung Fu movies with better wire work.
And the other sequences are nearly as bad. They seem to have no regard for physics, or the forces of nature in general. Somebody lands on the hood of a car and collapses the entire front end - they jump to another car and land as light as a cat... what is that? Sixty mile per hour winds don't muss hair or make clothes ripple. It's just a silly movie, badly written and badly directed.
Keith
What matters is whether the movie was any good. And, this movie is a stinker! A well written sequel stands on its own, or at least the writer deftly refers back to events in the earlier film to remind the viewer of what is happening, and why. Reloaded does none of that. It just throws you into this turgid mess assuming that the average viewer is going to have the entire pantheon of characters and events committed to memory.
And as bad as the writing is, the action sequences are even worse. Reeves (in particular) is not an athlete, and his scenes on wires are simply pathetic! He just gets hoisted around at half-speed, clumsily doing little rolls, etc, while trying to look cool with his long black coat and sunglasses. I've seen really bad Kung Fu movies with better wire work.
And the other sequences are nearly as bad. They seem to have no regard for physics, or the forces of nature in general. Somebody lands on the hood of a car and collapses the entire front end - they jump to another car and land as light as a cat... what is that? Sixty mile per hour winds don't muss hair or make clothes ripple. It's just a silly movie, badly written and badly directed.
Keith
shane184
October 20, 2003, 12:52 PM
Lets just hope that the third one is better than the second year of Twin Peaks.
JimJD
October 20, 2003, 01:20 PM
A well written sequel stands on its own, or at least the writer deftly refers back to events in the earlier film to remind the viewer of what is happening, and why. Reloaded does none of that. It just throws you into this turgid mess assuming that the average viewer is going to have the entire pantheon of characters and events committed to memory.
Keith, it's not that type of movie... The "behind the scenes" footage on the DVD's clearly explain this.
And the other sequences are nearly as bad. They seem to have no regard for physics, or the forces of nature in general. Somebody lands on the hood of a car and collapses the entire front end - they jump to another car and land as light as a cat... what is that? Sixty mile per hour winds don't muss hair or make clothes ripple. It's just a silly movie, badly written and badly directed.
You ARE kidding... right?
Did you read any of the other posts on this thread?
Um...I hope you saw the first movie. :D
Keith, it's not that type of movie... The "behind the scenes" footage on the DVD's clearly explain this.
And the other sequences are nearly as bad. They seem to have no regard for physics, or the forces of nature in general. Somebody lands on the hood of a car and collapses the entire front end - they jump to another car and land as light as a cat... what is that? Sixty mile per hour winds don't muss hair or make clothes ripple. It's just a silly movie, badly written and badly directed.
You ARE kidding... right?
Did you read any of the other posts on this thread?
Um...I hope you saw the first movie. :D
Cosmoline
October 20, 2003, 01:21 PM
I'm withholding judgment until I see the final one. After all, "Reloaded" is supposed to be just the first half of the finale.
Still, the CGI sucked and the action was lame. CGI Neo was terrible, plastic looking. They used a lot of CGI Neo, I suspect, because hanging Keanu on a wire is real, real $$$. Compare Reloaded with the original and you'll see what I mean. In the original, they could hang most of the cast by wires for weeks at a time to get the perfect shot.
Still, the CGI sucked and the action was lame. CGI Neo was terrible, plastic looking. They used a lot of CGI Neo, I suspect, because hanging Keanu on a wire is real, real $$$. Compare Reloaded with the original and you'll see what I mean. In the original, they could hang most of the cast by wires for weeks at a time to get the perfect shot.
buzz_knox
October 20, 2003, 01:25 PM
CGI Neo was terrible, plastic looking
They are trying to do too much with the current technology. Blade II and the Hulk had the same problem. They could have fixed it by taking a bit more time and mapping the actors' faces to the bodies in motion, but that wouldn't have cured some of the problems and would have been even more timeconsuming.
They are trying to do too much with the current technology. Blade II and the Hulk had the same problem. They could have fixed it by taking a bit more time and mapping the actors' faces to the bodies in motion, but that wouldn't have cured some of the problems and would have been even more timeconsuming.
Keith
October 20, 2003, 01:50 PM
Keith, it's not that type of movie...
You mean it's not a "good" movie?
Keith
You mean it's not a "good" movie?
Keith
Nando Aqui
October 20, 2003, 01:54 PM
A few points for all of us to remember-
• Chances are that many of us here are analyzing the movie to a greater depth than its creators ever did, or perhaps are even capable of doing.
• The movie (any movie) is primarily meant to entertain and to make money for producers, writers, etc. Let’s take them for what they are; enjoy discussing them, but don’t take them too seriously. After all, isn’t true that most of us don’t mind if the good-guy changes magazines only once in a while as long as they look cool when doing it (or good looking… Lara Croft anyone?)
• What drives many of us nuts are inconsistencies, and all movies, science fiction or otherwise, are plagued with them. (Why should a ‘ghost’ be able to walk through a wall, and yet be able to sit on chair? Why should a jetliner be able to continue flying after its controls and other parts of the aircraft have been riddled with submachine gun fire?)
• Whether a human being can fly in a virtual world is not an inconsistency, it is science fiction, and whether you choose to accept it or to like it is strictly your prerogative.
• Some movies do not attempt to explain things, and people accept them and allow themselves to be entertained. For example, people jump and fly a la “Matrix” in “Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon” without any sort of explanation. But it was well done and entertaining.
• It makes absolutely no sense to try to argue whether thin pizza is better than thick, or whether red is prettier than blue, or whether skinny is more sensual that voluptuous. And thank God (oops – the creator, if one exists. I didn’t mean to offend anyone.) that it is that way – as it would be a boring world if everyone liked the same. Moral: You are neither right nor wrong for liking or disliking a movie. Remember, the reasons that justify your choice are right for you, and that’s all that counts.
BUT, if you dislike something, and the reason for your dislike is lack of information (the why's, how's, who's, etc.), you may find that after you learn that information, you may not dislike that something quite as much - why, you may even like it.
With that last point in mind, I don’t see how anyone can like “Reloaded” without first having thoroughly understood what the “Matrix” exposed – and I said ‘thoroughly understood’ and not ‘watched’ purposely,
Alex
• Chances are that many of us here are analyzing the movie to a greater depth than its creators ever did, or perhaps are even capable of doing.
• The movie (any movie) is primarily meant to entertain and to make money for producers, writers, etc. Let’s take them for what they are; enjoy discussing them, but don’t take them too seriously. After all, isn’t true that most of us don’t mind if the good-guy changes magazines only once in a while as long as they look cool when doing it (or good looking… Lara Croft anyone?)
• What drives many of us nuts are inconsistencies, and all movies, science fiction or otherwise, are plagued with them. (Why should a ‘ghost’ be able to walk through a wall, and yet be able to sit on chair? Why should a jetliner be able to continue flying after its controls and other parts of the aircraft have been riddled with submachine gun fire?)
• Whether a human being can fly in a virtual world is not an inconsistency, it is science fiction, and whether you choose to accept it or to like it is strictly your prerogative.
• Some movies do not attempt to explain things, and people accept them and allow themselves to be entertained. For example, people jump and fly a la “Matrix” in “Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon” without any sort of explanation. But it was well done and entertaining.
• It makes absolutely no sense to try to argue whether thin pizza is better than thick, or whether red is prettier than blue, or whether skinny is more sensual that voluptuous. And thank God (oops – the creator, if one exists. I didn’t mean to offend anyone.) that it is that way – as it would be a boring world if everyone liked the same. Moral: You are neither right nor wrong for liking or disliking a movie. Remember, the reasons that justify your choice are right for you, and that’s all that counts.
BUT, if you dislike something, and the reason for your dislike is lack of information (the why's, how's, who's, etc.), you may find that after you learn that information, you may not dislike that something quite as much - why, you may even like it.
With that last point in mind, I don’t see how anyone can like “Reloaded” without first having thoroughly understood what the “Matrix” exposed – and I said ‘thoroughly understood’ and not ‘watched’ purposely,
Alex
MaterDei
October 20, 2003, 02:02 PM
CGI Neo was terrible, plastic looking.
Neo is played by Keanu Reaves. A plastic looking CGI was necessary to make it realistic.
Neo is played by Keanu Reaves. A plastic looking CGI was necessary to make it realistic.
Matthew_Q
October 20, 2003, 02:05 PM
Well, not having read all the posts, I did want to put in my input:
The Matrix (the first movie) kicked mucho heinie. Simply put. As a stand alone movie, it was awesome. It broke ground on new levels of effects that have been copied and duplicated many times since (and it's cool that they did most of them on a cluster of Dell Precision Workstations)
Reloaded continues the story. To me, it feels like the Wachowski bros. are kinda making it up as they go. However, to really understand ALL of it, you'd have to watch the first movie, watch all the Animatrix shorts, including Last Flight of the Osiris. It fills in some between Matrix and Reloaded. Plus, there's a console game that fills in things that you don't get in the movie or Animatrix. It's truly a multi medium story.
I want to see where it goes... I want to see if the white bearded dude was BSing Neo... I think he was...
The Matrix (the first movie) kicked mucho heinie. Simply put. As a stand alone movie, it was awesome. It broke ground on new levels of effects that have been copied and duplicated many times since (and it's cool that they did most of them on a cluster of Dell Precision Workstations)
Reloaded continues the story. To me, it feels like the Wachowski bros. are kinda making it up as they go. However, to really understand ALL of it, you'd have to watch the first movie, watch all the Animatrix shorts, including Last Flight of the Osiris. It fills in some between Matrix and Reloaded. Plus, there's a console game that fills in things that you don't get in the movie or Animatrix. It's truly a multi medium story.
I want to see where it goes... I want to see if the white bearded dude was BSing Neo... I think he was...
Dionysusigma
October 20, 2003, 02:53 PM
Nando Aqu�* :
• Chances are that many of us here are analyzing the movie to a greater depth than its creators ever did, or perhaps are even capable of doing.
Remember the place where Neo (Thomas Anderson) worked in the first movie? Metacortechs? Go to http://www.metacortechs.com and investigate absolutely EVERYTHING on the site. Follow any and all leads as far as they will go. Try starting with reading the "News" section, then go to "Directory" at the bottom of the page. Type in as many names as you can find, including Thomas Anderson. Follow the businesses that Metacortex is working with...
Then, come back and tell us that we're probably taking it too far. :evil:
That's the beauty of art; its meaning goes as far as the person who is viewing it.
P. S. This tool will help you... http://nickciske.com/tools/binary.php
• Chances are that many of us here are analyzing the movie to a greater depth than its creators ever did, or perhaps are even capable of doing.
Remember the place where Neo (Thomas Anderson) worked in the first movie? Metacortechs? Go to http://www.metacortechs.com and investigate absolutely EVERYTHING on the site. Follow any and all leads as far as they will go. Try starting with reading the "News" section, then go to "Directory" at the bottom of the page. Type in as many names as you can find, including Thomas Anderson. Follow the businesses that Metacortex is working with...
Then, come back and tell us that we're probably taking it too far. :evil:
That's the beauty of art; its meaning goes as far as the person who is viewing it.
P. S. This tool will help you... http://nickciske.com/tools/binary.php
Selfdfenz
October 20, 2003, 04:04 PM
I liked Reloaded except the heavily loaded skin sequences as they are boring and burn up time...
That and the Architect and the idiotic complexity of his lengthy discussion with Neo. I so-mo'd back and forth over that several times and it's full of terms that hardly make sense the way they are strung together. Just a PITA to understand the old wizard of a program.
It will be intersting to see how the main character's ability to do his Matrix-tricks in the Zion will affect the outcome of version 3.0.
And what is this hand slicing bearded one all about? I hate ringers. A distraction me thinks.
If they stop at three editions, and the last one is as good and the first 2, the series will be a great success. If they try and stretch it to four it'll be a failed series. IMHO
S-
That and the Architect and the idiotic complexity of his lengthy discussion with Neo. I so-mo'd back and forth over that several times and it's full of terms that hardly make sense the way they are strung together. Just a PITA to understand the old wizard of a program.
It will be intersting to see how the main character's ability to do his Matrix-tricks in the Zion will affect the outcome of version 3.0.
And what is this hand slicing bearded one all about? I hate ringers. A distraction me thinks.
If they stop at three editions, and the last one is as good and the first 2, the series will be a great success. If they try and stretch it to four it'll be a failed series. IMHO
S-
Gus's guy
October 20, 2003, 04:53 PM
wow, i think i have to disagree and agree with a lot that is here and has already been talked about...
there is def. some underlying themes, and i think most of those are for i, myself, and ya'll to think of and figure out on your own, free your mind...one may quote...
this is like any other movie, agreeingly flawed, mis-informed in areas, hard to follow, easy to grasp, and easy to accept as a form of entertainment, but in the matrix is entertainment given out in many new ways.
the game- great in every way, being able to see some dvd footage, not in the movies, play as some other non-the main character, but seeing how we are all intertwined, and being able to do everything you can and have wanted too, shoot lots, jump far, and move in bullet time.
the animatrix- insight to where some of the people have come from, trinity and the annoying kid, the explanation into some of the things we have seen or heard about, vamps, ghost...the norm.
the movies- first movies are always the ones that deal more with story development, think of movie one as intro. and all that character building, movie two, always more action/fights, less plot so to speak, and just moving the story on...and there are references to the first movie and the places/people, but since there are so many new characters, there is some more to do...
third movie- im still out on where its going, how it will end, but i def. agree with the earlier comment about it being something, unexpected...
the guy with the sliced hand, bane...its agent smith, somehow gotten out of the matrix, ie. the two guys drop into the one room, one grabs phone, hes out of the matrix, the other guy, bane, picks up phone, smith enters, able to clone himself, and turns bane(matrix bodied bane) into himself, bane goes out of the matrix, being posessed some how by agent smith, now allowing him to enter the zion, realworld.
woah, confused, good, cause i think thats some of it, but watching it over and over, wide awake and ready to hear makes it easier, ive watched reloaded twice this week, picked up more the second time, its good...
and its not even my favorite movie genre...
so in conclusion...nov. cant come soon enough with revolutions to come out, and it is really matrix 2.5, cause it was supposed to be one story turned into two, so there you have it...any questions or answers needed about matrix stuff im me...its there on the bottom of my post.
there is def. some underlying themes, and i think most of those are for i, myself, and ya'll to think of and figure out on your own, free your mind...one may quote...
this is like any other movie, agreeingly flawed, mis-informed in areas, hard to follow, easy to grasp, and easy to accept as a form of entertainment, but in the matrix is entertainment given out in many new ways.
the game- great in every way, being able to see some dvd footage, not in the movies, play as some other non-the main character, but seeing how we are all intertwined, and being able to do everything you can and have wanted too, shoot lots, jump far, and move in bullet time.
the animatrix- insight to where some of the people have come from, trinity and the annoying kid, the explanation into some of the things we have seen or heard about, vamps, ghost...the norm.
the movies- first movies are always the ones that deal more with story development, think of movie one as intro. and all that character building, movie two, always more action/fights, less plot so to speak, and just moving the story on...and there are references to the first movie and the places/people, but since there are so many new characters, there is some more to do...
third movie- im still out on where its going, how it will end, but i def. agree with the earlier comment about it being something, unexpected...
the guy with the sliced hand, bane...its agent smith, somehow gotten out of the matrix, ie. the two guys drop into the one room, one grabs phone, hes out of the matrix, the other guy, bane, picks up phone, smith enters, able to clone himself, and turns bane(matrix bodied bane) into himself, bane goes out of the matrix, being posessed some how by agent smith, now allowing him to enter the zion, realworld.
woah, confused, good, cause i think thats some of it, but watching it over and over, wide awake and ready to hear makes it easier, ive watched reloaded twice this week, picked up more the second time, its good...
and its not even my favorite movie genre...
so in conclusion...nov. cant come soon enough with revolutions to come out, and it is really matrix 2.5, cause it was supposed to be one story turned into two, so there you have it...any questions or answers needed about matrix stuff im me...its there on the bottom of my post.
Penforhire
October 20, 2003, 05:49 PM
Opinions vary. The movie, as plot and entertainment, was not quite up to the tremendous high standards of the first.
But for me the special effects and fight scenes just keep getting better. They pushed the boundaries of CGI and some of the seams are showing. So what? Still amazing scenes. The motorcycle chase (and the whole keymaster running chase including the twins) was breathtaking.
First time time saw the film I was baffled by the long dance/skin scene. But on re-viewing I think it is a very intentional "texture" or mood insert. Another level of foil or contrast to the machine world, much like the entire set of Zion or the tattered clothing always worn. I still think they dwelled on it too long. Maybe they were just too proud of the 1,000's of extras that managed that scene and the editing was weak. Who knows.
I would want to see the "director's cut" but we're probably getting it. The studio probably lets those guys do whatever they want.
But for me the special effects and fight scenes just keep getting better. They pushed the boundaries of CGI and some of the seams are showing. So what? Still amazing scenes. The motorcycle chase (and the whole keymaster running chase including the twins) was breathtaking.
First time time saw the film I was baffled by the long dance/skin scene. But on re-viewing I think it is a very intentional "texture" or mood insert. Another level of foil or contrast to the machine world, much like the entire set of Zion or the tattered clothing always worn. I still think they dwelled on it too long. Maybe they were just too proud of the 1,000's of extras that managed that scene and the editing was weak. Who knows.
I would want to see the "director's cut" but we're probably getting it. The studio probably lets those guys do whatever they want.
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