[Aristides]

I just bought a Ruger Single Six with 5 1/2" barrell. I plan to use the 22 LR cyclinder primarily for target practice and small game. But when stored in my drawer at home, I will have the Magnum cylinder in place, and it will serve as home defense backup. Yes, I have heavier weapons as primary self defense, so don't go down that road. I just want to know your opinion on the most effective 22 magnum self defense ammo for this revolver, and my primary question is whether I should use HP or Solid.

Taking CCI as an example, they have a Solid Flat Nose and an HP in the same loading. Will the HP give adequate penetration from a 5 1/2" revolver barrell? Or should I go with the Solid Flat Nose to ensure enough penetration? I'm a believer that penetration is most important, and in my pocket gun (Tomcat 32 acp) I use FMJ for that reason. But maybe 1400 fps is fast enough to give adequate penetration with the HP, so I don't need solid...? What do you think?

Also...edit...if you have an opinion, please explain your reasoning as best you can...I'm curious to know WHY you think one is better than the other. Thanks.

[Stonestacker]

I'm curious about opinions on this myself. If I could add one to your list, how about .22 mag. with ballistic tip?

[PA Freedom]

Im very interested in hearing what others have to say, also. Ive also used a Ruger S/S with .22 Mag for protection back when thats the only handgun I owned. FWIW, I chose hollowpoints, but fortunately never had to shoot anyone.

[sm]

Solid.

Be this a .22 lr, or .22 mag.

[wnycollector]

Either will do the trick if you put your shots in the right place. Here is some ballistic gel testing on both JHP and FMJ http://www.brassfetcher.com/22WMR.html

[VA27]

With a handgun it doesn't matter which you use. Pick which ever is most accurate in your gun.

[novalty]

For 22 Mag I can't really see a big expansion factor on going to a JHP, but can't say it would hurt to go with a good round like a Hornady Vmax.

Just my $.02

[Kind of Blued]

Solids.

The chance of you needing a backup home defense weapon are about as likely as your home being invaded by criminals wearing body armor, in which case you'll want the solids.

[mgkdrgn]

Solid point

Not enough velocity to get the HP to work well.

You can get 12+ inches of penetration of ballistic gel out of a 22mag solid out of a VERY short barrel pistol.

22mag can be a right nasty little cartridge ... my daily carry in an NAA Black Widow.

[Kindrox]

Do the HPs even expand, or are they like the .22 "hollow points" that don't?

[woad_yurt]

Solid. I would want all the penetration I could get out of it.

[kludge]

Revolver and Solids for Rimfire.

[mgkdrgn]

Do the HPs even expand, or are they like the .22 "hollow points" that don't?

They -will- out of a rifle, but not likely out of a pistol. Just a weeee bit too slow.

[CWL]

For such a small bit of lead, you want solid for as much penetration as possible. No use having a bullet expand if it doesn't penetrate into any major organs or CNS areas.

[m2steven]

I shoot loads of 22 mags and 17 hrm's. They are "real" cartridges and will do plenty of damage if aimed at the sternum, head and neck area. Also, shots to the stomach and intestines will do lots of damage. I've done phone book and the milk-jug with water tests and i've found that the high quality magnums(22) WILL expand after hitting water from a 3 inch barrel. The bullet is so small that the expansion is not much.

However, the penetration of the 22mag is undeniable. After hitting iron targets with it I can say that I certainly would not want to be hit with one. It would not knock a person down, but it would most likely stop them if you hit a vital area or fired 2 or 3 rounds and hit the center mass. Based upon my
personal experience - a 45 or 44 mag or 357 would be 'knock down' rounds.
9mm can be a knockdown round and certainly a killing/disabling round. I personally prefer the 9mm because of it's hitting power and my ability to place 8 or 10 right where I need to. I'm going to maybe get one chance with the 357 or 45. After that it's a crap shoot. There are experts for which this does not apply of course.

As to the 17hmr - they will tear you up. Again, even if they expand, they might go right through a human body. But if you've ever seen what they do to animal flesh, it's pretty bad. Plus, they are so fast that if you're a good marksman - your target will not have time to get out of the way and recoil is nill (muzzle flash and noise is another story).

The difference between the 22mag and 22lr is night and day.

[David E]

Hollow points or expanding bullets.

Why? Because @ 1750 fps, it should do just fine.

Penetration? How much do you really need? The heart is 2-3 inches inside the ribs on most folks. I want as much disruption as possible. I'd also practice my face/neck shots.

If it doesn't expand, you're right where you were with the solid points.

[george29]

This type of thread pops up every so often so do a search.

Here's my useless opinion. If all hand guns were to be confiscated, allowing for the ownership of but one handgun (yes, we have had this thread a dozen times too), my choice would be my Ruger Single-Six with interchangeable cylinder.

A .22 magnum has power way beyond it's size and you really don't want to take on the person who can shoot one well.

As I write this my 642 is in my pocket and my SBH under my pillow, so I wouldn't use the very wonderful Single-Six as my first choice if others were available but I have a few non-gunner friends who do own the little Ruger for defense. FWIW, I would even trust my life with the .22LR if that's all I had.

[george29]

a 45 or 44 mag or 357 would be 'knock down' rounds.
9mm can be a knockdown round and certainly a killing/disabling round.

Don't kid yourself, there is no such thing as a knockdown round in any normal handgun round.
if I shot you with a .45/70 or a 10 gauge maybe.
Also, don't even think that a dozen 9mm's will always incapacitate a determined opponent.

[B yond]

I say HP if you can find some with a deep cavity. I carry CCI TNT HPs in my MiniMag when I carry it.

I figure if I'm lucky it will expand, and if not I'm no worse off than a solid point.

[B yond]

Penetration? How much do you really need? The heart is 2-3 inches inside the ribs on most folks. I want as much disruption as possible. I'd also practice my face/neck shots.

What if they're not squared up to you, or the face/neck is not an option? What if the only available shot is through the shoulder towards the chest? This is why the FBI requires 15" of penetration for their ammo (IIRC- I may be off by an inch or two).

I still think a .22 Mag HP would penetrate enough to at least change an attacker's behavior, and I would expect more than 2-3 inches out of one.

Does anyone have any penetration data for various .22 Mag offerings?

[B yond]

found a penetration test!

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=4395228

It looks like you can expect 11" or so from a HP and maybe a few more inches from a FMJ. I'll stick with my HP. I like the possibility of making a bigger hole over the possibility of (over)penetrating an inch or two more.

[crushbup]

Solid with the widest meplat you can get.

It looks like you can expect 11" or so from a HP and maybe a few more inches from a FMJ. I'll stick with my HP. I like the possibility of making a bigger hole over the possibility of (over)penetrating an inch or two more.

11" of ballistics gel is not quite the same as 11" of human body. Bones, muscle, cartilage, etc. get in the way of the bullet. By no means is 12-18 inches in BG "overpenetration." Your bigger hole is no help if it stops short of the CNS. Even a shot that perfectly destroys the heart will give your goblin 15 seconds of conscious thought to shoot back in.

[David E]

What if they're not squared up to you, or the face/neck is not an option? What if the only available shot is through the shoulder towards the chest? This is why the FBI requires 15" of penetration for their ammo (IIRC- I may be off by an inch or two).

then why are you shooting them? If you can't see their face/neck or even head, why do they require the immediate application of deadly force?

The FBI based their 12" minimum penetration on their abysmal failure in the 1986 Miami shootout. A 9mm Silvertip penetrated an arm before entering the thoracic cavity, stopping just short of the heart. Even tho is was an unsurvivable wound, it did not stop the guy and more agents died as a result.

The FBI blamed the bullet so as to deflect focus on their horrible tactics and execution of the entire episode. This resulted in their 12" minium penetration guideline. (Theory being, "if only that round had penetrated 3-4 more inches, lives would've been saved...")

Personally, I want more than 3-4 inches of penetration, but in reality, for the face-on shots on normal people, it should be fine.

[B yond]

By no means is 12-18 inches in BG "overpenetration."

Dang dawg, how big are you?!? :neener:

Seriously though, I consider anything that goes through the BG to be overpenetration. This is why I prefer to carry big, heavy, slow calibers. I want my SD ammo to hit the BG like a truck, dump all its kinetic energy by the time it has passed about 3/4 of the way through Mr. BG, and leave a massive entrance wound with no exit.

When I have to I'll settle for a .22 mag HP that *should* penetrate at least half way (hopefully more) and leave a nice jagged wound as the jacket peels back upon entrance. The reasoning here is to create rapid blood loss in the event that the CNS is not hit, hopefully incapacitating the threat quickly.

Personally, I want more than 3-4 inches of penetration, but in reality, for the face-on shots on normal people, it should be fine.
:scrutiny:
face-on shots on normal people
:confused:
I didn't know we only need to defend ourselves from 'normal' people who are squared-up with us...

If you can't see their face/neck or even head, why do they require the immediate application of deadly force?
I didn't realize a BG wasn't a threat unless you could see their face/neck. :rolleyes:

I guess you learn something every day. :banghead:

[David E]

I didn't realize a BG wasn't a threat unless you could see their face/neck.

Then perhaps you could cite a reasonable example that addresses the question I asked:

"If you can't see their face/neck or even head, why do they require the immediate application of deadly force?"

Instead of mocking, maybe you could answer the question the first time around......:rolleyes:

[crushbup]

Dang dawg, how big are you?!?
As I said, 12 inches of ballistics gel is not the same as 12 inches of human torso. Ballistics gel is much easier for the bullet to move through. 12 inches in ballistics gel is the FBI's minimum. 18 is preferable.

I guarantee you that a round that penetrates exactly 12 inches of ballistics gel will penetrate less through a human body.

Instead of mocking, maybe you could answer the question the first time around......
Try shooting at a moving target and you'll notice that not only is it difficult to track and aim for a small target like the face/neck, a person who is moving is not perfectly square to your vision.

[B yond]

Then perhaps you could cite a reasonable example that addresses the question I asked:

"If you can't see their face/neck or even head, why do they require the immediate application of deadly force?"

Instead of mocking, maybe you could answer the question the first time around......

Seriously?

They could be behind cover. Their face/neck could be in a shadow. They could be wearing a helmet with a face/neck shield. They could be the headless horseman. :neener:

You cannot plan for every possible situation in which a person could pose a deadly threat. It's naive to assume that you would only need to apply deadly force in situation where your opponent's face/neck is a reasonable target. Just like it's naive to assume that you'll only need to apply deadly force in situations where 3 inches of penetration is adequate.

Alas, we're getting off topic here.

As for the OP's question, I think either HP or FMJ would penetrate enough from a .22mag. From the little bit of data I've been able to find (haven't looked too hard) it looks like you would only get an extra inch or two from a FMJ. You can expect around 11" from the HP (in gel) depending on the load. You might as well go with the HP as you might get some expansion too.

[David E]

Once again, if you cannot see his neck/face or HEAD (which I previously stated and was ignored) then why are you shooting him? The examples given either conveniently jump past the moment deadly force is required or cite a moment before deadly force is justified.

The OP framed his question about using the .22 magnum as a home defense gun.

The .22 magnum will penetrate MORE than 3-4", so most of this is moot anyway.

While one cannot plan for every possible situation (only fools would try) one can plan for the most likely. Helmets with face/neck shields notwithstanding. :rolleyes: However, it would be most likely that I could see the badguy's face/neck/head in the typical home defense scenario.

Is it an easy target? Nope, but the smaller you go in power, the more precise you need to be.

Of course, the chest/pelvis are viable targets as well. 4" penetration on most people would make it to their heart.

I'd still go with expanding bullets in the .22 magnum, even if they penetrated less.

But, since the OP states he owns bigger caliber guns, it would make the most sense to use one of those instead of trying to make a .22 magnum do the job.

[crushbup]

pelvis
heart

...you lost me there

[sm]

Not all threats will be face on, and static.


Many trainers and instructors also use three dimensional targets , and moving targers such as NTI, and Awerbuck is known for his "unique" targets.

Hence the reason I was raised to shoot moving and three dimensional target presentations, beginning at a very very early age.

-VCAs do use cover, whether intentional or not- the reality is, one may not have full view of face, neck, or head.
Intent is expressed by verbal, and non verbal language, and one might have to stop a threat that is "obscured" , by cover, and have to shoot the best target presentation.

i.e. BG is shooting at you from out and around behind your fridge. Your best shot might be VCA knee, or foot, that is exposed. If the threat continues, and VCA steps out, and at angle - still moving- one shoots to stop threat, and this might now mean a bullet has to get past arm, to enter thorax from a an angle.

Same thing if VCA is using the breakfast bar, that is part of kitchen cabinet and decor, if they are shooting at you from down, around and from the side of that breakfast bar.




VCA using the shrub near a carport for concealment and you arrive home ( bringing in groceries for instance), and now the shrub becomes cover against you,

Bullets deflect, they all do.
Rifle bullets deflect hitting twigs and deer are missed.
Awerbuck has shared 12 ga slugs being deflected off the brim of a ball cap, worn by a VCA target.

IME, solids deflect less when shooting glass.
I have tested this, over and over again, with various media, including glass.

Threat might be on the other side of glass Eterge', or glass "knick-knack" display you have in the home, or business.
It might be the decorative glass door in the home, which leads into main dining room, etc.


True.

One of the Set Ups (ya'll call these stages) I did ~ 30 years ago, was based on a real event.


Nineteen year old female, stepped onto a icy porch to get the paper and in breaking her fall, broke her strong side arm ,and hurt her wrist. In getting up, she went down again, and her knee required surgery.

There she was in a recliner of the day, after getting home from the hospital, and in a bad way.

Well, we had elderly folks, with arthritis and some had it so bad, they were under NO RECOIL orders. Osteo so bad, they could no longer drive, even being a passenger was a "concern".
IF they shut the car door too hard, or the trunk, they could break a back.
So getting into a minor fender bender, was a concern for their health as a passenger.
My aunt had Osteo so bad, she stepped out of bed one morning , and broke her foot.

This nineteen year old, fell asleep in the recliner, and did not know her dad had come in early from work and was putting a knick-knack in the display mom had.
It scared the nineteen year old.

Other elderly folks had expressed the same concerns - "risk for falls".
[I]Risk for falls is not an age thing.

One couple had known me forever and about ten years ago-

One of my elderly couples had a serious situation. Husband was brought home after out patient knee surgery. She got him home, he got into his recliner.
His wife left to get his meds, and some food from a a mom-n-pop grocery store that did prepared foods. They wanted her to come get some food, already cooked, so she would not have to cook for a couple of days. Just how mom-n-pop stores are with customers they have known forever.

She was attacked in her carport, as she arrived home. She was targeted at the drug store, and tailed, and then followed home. She unlocked the door off carport, and brought in one box, went back out and BGs were using her car for cover, and attacked her.
Knocked her down...she did not break anything, just some bruises and small cuts...

Husband is just home from surgery and still a bit under the anesthesia, and he cannot get up , and if he could what could he do? Thank goodness the bad guys just stole her car, her purse, the meds, and food and took off, without coming inside to where he was.
(He normally pocket carried a J frame, just he thought he would be best not too, just coming back from being under anesthesia...and ....)

So going back since I was wittle, mentors did set ups, so it was only natural for me to do one based off that Nineteen year old and her situation.
Only natural I would do a carport attack one...

So the set up I did some 30 years ago due to the 19 year old female incident, and concerns of elderly-

Set Up.

-Strong hand and arm are disabled. We used a temp cast, and mitt.
-Recliner, kicked back.
-.22 cal handguns, due to NO RECOIL orders such as a Doctor and Physical Therapist do impose.
Handguns were snub nose revolvers, in because these are small, easy to conceal, and therefore one can have on person, even in the home.

VCA was a moving, target filled with dirt. A scarecrow, if you will, behind glass "knick-knack" display cabinet, (eterge') with plastic toys to replicate knick knacks, on glass shelves. This thing was between five and six feet tall and about 18 inches square.

NO start buzzer. We rarely did start buzzers, instead we used starts such as gunshots, screams, doors being busted into, glass breaking, and the like.
Reality, as there are no start buzzers in real life.

I prefer standard pressure, 40 gr, lead round nose.
If I cannot have that, then a 40 gr high velocity.

Now a variety of loads of the day were used...
Since that time I have replicated this same set up, for assisting folks with more modern loadings.
I vary it a bit...

Some loads are designed to "scatter on impact" , and they "scoot" out of a bore really darn fast, even faster than hi-velocity ( hyper velocity).

Investigate & Verify.

I have, lots of times over the decades, and it might surprise folks of some of the results.


Get a piece of the most simple, plain vanilla glass, like from a window pane.
An old window with panes are best, instead of loose panes.

Now shoot a target from 7 yards.
Repeat with this glass anywhere from 12 inches, to further away from that target ( glass closer to you).

Repeat at longer distances, if you have a glass interior door in the home, replicate the setting, such as where you would shooting from, and where threats would be.

I got one for you.
No secret , I am not a fan of low recoil buckshot loads for shotguns, especially one brand.
a. That load deflected something awful shooting through a interior glass door.
b. That "rubber ball" in that loading will come back at you, and hurt you.
The ball hit one of the cross sections were glass panes are held in, and bounced back with authority.

A standard pressure, 40 gr lead round nose, fired from a Beretta Bobcat, grouped right nice, through that door.

[easy door we made , to replace glass easy and fast, for this teaching and assisting tool for new shooters and CCW folks.]


Investigate & Verify.

[David E]

The head is key. Please note that you do not need to see his face or the front of his head or neck in order to shoot it.

If he's running laterally and you are justified in shooting, then shoot the side of his head/neck.

If his back is to you, but deadly force is still justified, shoot him in the back of his head/neck.

If for some reason his head/neck is invisible to you, aim for his chest and/or pelvis from front or back.

If he is behind you and you do not see him at all, then it doesn't matter what gun you have.

If he's 100% behind cover and still requires deadly force, you're pushing your luck, especially with a .22 magnum.

If he's behind glass wearing a helmet with a face/neck shield while running laterally and deadly force is justified......well, I think I read that comic book too....

I'm not defending the .22 magnum, as there are many calibers better suited for defense. But if I had to use or recommend one, I'd load it with JHP's or other expanding bullet and practice my face/neck/head shots with it.

[sm]

Ah so maybe, what we need to do is to take preventative steps so we do not get to the point where we need to defend against a threat with a handgun,or any firearm, no matter what platform, brand, make, caliber, gauge or ammunition type ?

*wink*

[BHP FAN]

I'd stagger my loads ...

[David E]

sm, I've never seen anybody work so hard to miss a point so simple.

:wink:

[dullh]

22 Magnum: HP or Solid for Self Defense?

Neither.

[bhp9mm]

id use solids in a 22 mag

[moooose102]

well, with such a small diameter projectile, i would personaly want a hollow point. my reasoning is this. if you hit a human where there is only soft flesh, a fmj bullet may penetrate all the way through. the problem with that in a home is that the bullet may continue on into a loved one, which is serious bad news. even if it only breaks the skin of your loved one, just think about all the blood born diseases that could be spread. stay with expanding rounds in your home, keep the bullet(s) in the bad guy, and keep your loved ones safe!

[B yond]

The head is key.

While a headshot would usually stop a threat faster than a shot to the torso, it is naive to plan on being able to pull off a headshot in a SD situation. If you're not confident that you can effectively stop a threat without a headshot with a given caliber, it's time to seriously consider a different caliber.

Training/planning to pull off a headshot in a SD situation may not work out for you.

:D

That said, no one wants to get shot with a .22 mag anywhere!

[Aristides]

I'm the original poster. Just responding to those who question how/why my 22 magnum would be my backup if it's for home defense. The answer is, I keep my Beretta and shotguns locked up (when I'm not home) downstairs in my den, while the 22 magnum is typically stored either upstairs in the bedroom or maybe in my car if I'm going to the range soon. So, in "backup", I don't mean I've been in a gun fight and I'm out of ammo or otherwise have lost the use of my other weapons. I simply mean that, possibly my other guns are someplace else, and it's the 22 magnum that I or my wife can get our hands on. In that case, will I want HP or Solids?

[B yond]

I say HP. I bet, if this thread were a poll, that the majority would agree.

[David E]

I simply mean that, possibly my other guns are someplace else, and it's the 22 magnum that I or my wife can get our hands on.

That's a choice you can make in advance. You can easily choose a centerfire handgun instead, so why don't you? It's silly to willingly select a rimfire handgun for defense when there are better choices available to you.

In that case, will I want HP or Solids?

Hollowpoints, be it rimfire or centerfire.

[scottaschultz]

As much as I really enjoy my Single Six, I am really considering getting one of these: http://www.usfirearms.com/cat/12-22.asp

For those times when 6 shots just isn't enough!

Scott

[Carbon_15]

.22 HP's probly wont expand at handgun velocities, but the squared shoulders of a HP do much more damage (even unexpanded) than a round nose FMJ.

[B yond]

Just throwing this out there...
http://www.rimfireuniverse.com/tip_backround.jpg

A little birdie told me these should be available in America later this year.

[doc2rn]

As an EMT on an ACLS rig in Charleston, SC I have seen a 22lr out of an NAA mini kill a man with one shot to the sternum slightly left of center. He was escaping with his wife from a biker bar being chased by 3 or 4 occupants of same bar. One was an off duty PO.
Byond I need some of that ammo! TY!

[David E]

And your point ?

I think we can agree that any caliber CAN kill with one shot, but how many can be relied upon?

[Satch]

Back in "58" as a teenager on our farm I bought a Mossberg .22 mag single shot rifle for pest control. About the only rd.s you could get then were solids.One day I done a test with a gallon can that once had pesticide in it.I filled this metal can with water,sealed the lid and shot at it from about 50 yds.away. The can jumped about 10 ft.,in the air with water flying out,and when I picked it up the ends were bulged out and the seams that sealed the can were all torn open. I'm sure some of the rounds made today could be even more effective as a defence round.;)

[cubesmoothie]

David E. A person who tries to kill me with a gun would likely not try to expose their vitals. When i was young there was a driveby in front of a house where i was, and the person next to me got killed. Noone ever saw any part of the shooters body except the hands holding the guns. These were uzis.

[David E]

And a .22 magnum against a drive-by is a poor choice.

My point was, and is, unless the shooter is holding his gun around or above cover, (making his hit potential minimal) his head will be visible to you, either the front, side or back of it.

Is the head a viable target? Absolutely. Is it an easy one to hit? Absolutely not.

The smaller you go in power, the more precise you need to be in placement. If you're using an under powered caliber, then proper placement is essential.

Most people would encounter the badguy face on, as in a mugging. If I had a mousegun caliber, I'd go for face/neck/throat shots instead of the standard center mass.

[fmfdocglock]

Will a .22lr fire in a .22 magnum? Are they really the same caliber? :confused:

[Al Thompson]

The .22LR will fire in a .22 Mag., but it's a bad idea. The Magnum case (the brass tube) is bigger in diameter than a .22LR and the LR will split upon firing. Not safe at all. :)

OP, I'd go with 50 grain JHPs. Federal Game-Shok #757 fits the bill.

[noob_shooter]

who makes the 22LR varmint point? i would love to try those...

[suemarkp]

In most handguns, the 50gr loads keyhole (maybe that would actually be more effective at short ranges where accuracy doesn't matter??). I had an AMT Automag II with the 4.5" barrel. The 50gr loads keyholed every time. I shot Winchester HP's into wet newspaper and was impressed. Not only did they expand, the nose pretty much totaly fragmented. There was a nice wadcutter cylinder that penetrated about a foot. The fragments were between the entrance hole and the stopped bullet.

I'd go with 40gr JHPs.

[C-grunt]

I dont think a head shot would be a good choice with the .22 mag, or really any handgun for that matter. Lots of thick strong bones there. Also lots of curved bones to deflect bullets.

A friend of mine who has been in a couple shootings has shot two bad guys in the head with his .45 using 230 grn HSTs. Both times the rounds ricochetted off the round thick skull. Also another officer shot a guy trying to kill him in the face using the same 230 grn HST. The round hit the upper jaw deflected to the side a bit and was stopped after penetrating a few teeth.

Though I have seen a drug dealer shot in the face with a .22. It entered through the bridge of his nose, went through the sinuses and exited his left ear. We finally tracked him down after he ran around for 30 minutes screaming and banging on doors. He nearly died of blood loss though.

[Carl Levitian]

Hitting someone in the face with any bullet is going to be a highly trumatic event, and will give them a lot to think about. It's not going to matter if it's a .22 mag hp or solid. It's not even going to matter if it's a .22LR solid or hp.

In the very begining of the book Serpico, Frank Serpico gives a very graphic desciption of what it was like being shot in the face with a .22lr pistol. The bullet bounced off his jaw and lodged in his neck. It also knocked him down to the floor of the apartment hallway and out of action imediatly.

[cpirtle]

I'm not getting into the whole .22 magnum as a defense gun debate, but sometimes if it's all you can have with you it beats a stick in the eye.

I have several NAA mini's and a S&W 351pd that serve various purposes in my life. All of them get loaded with Remington Premier Accu-tip's like these (http://www.natchezss.com/Ammo.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=RT21184&prodTitle=Remington%20Premier%20.22%20Magnum%20with%20V-Max%20Bullets&CFID=21075652&CFTOKEN=27975507).

[David E]

I had an AMT Automag II with the 4.5" barrel. The 50gr loads keyholed every time.

I think this is more of a result of the gun the rounds were fired from, not the rounds themselves.

[doc2rn]

Remington makes a ballistic tipped .22 mag shell but they run ~$18/50.