Watch this video, scope issue?


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JDGray
June 9, 2009, 06:26 AM
The group has a repeatable pattern, that I think may be a parallax issue. The scope is a Bushnell Elite 3200 10x40, on my AR15, shooting at 100yards. Final group measured 1.190" for 10 rounds. My rifle has a one piece base, firmly mounted to the reciever, the rings were not loose, but I gave them a little more torque after watching my vidio. My Son is quite the editor:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLISyLA0u44

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Cohibra45
June 9, 2009, 09:31 AM
Good shootin'!!!!!!

I hope you aren't complaining about that group.........It's just over MOA and that's for 10 shots. Not bad at all.

If you are wanting to tighten up the groups, you are going to have to go with much better barrels, triggers, etc.... Then you won't have a 'battle' ready AR, just a bench shooting one. Depends on what you are looking to do I guess.

What AR are you using? Is is a standard trigger? Have you put a match barrel on?

Again, for a out of the box AR, it shoots great!!!

rodensouth
June 9, 2009, 11:22 AM
That was fun to watch. What type of AR? Barrel had many rounds through it yet? Factory ammo?

CoRoMo
June 9, 2009, 12:06 PM
What make of rifle? Barrel?

Dude, you can't just show us your vid and not give us details!!

nbkky71
June 9, 2009, 02:07 PM
Your first two round were a little high and then you pounded the center of that target. Looked like a couple of 'same hole' shots as well.

Did you make a sight correction after shot #2?

JDGray
June 9, 2009, 03:50 PM
Thanks guys! The Rifle is a RRA Predator Pursuit. 20" SS heavy barrel, The RRA NM trigger group has been slicked up by Bill Springfield, and breaks at just under 4lbs. The group was shot with handloads. I guess shooting 10rd groups, will open up your final result. No adjustments were made during firing. The first six rounds made 3 nice seperate groups, thought maybe the parallax played a bit. Check out the June AR-15 paper plate match, in the stickys:)

Forgot to mention, this group was shot from a cold, clean, bore. Maybe should have put some foulers through it.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b278/JDG357/IMG_2492.jpg

Walkalong
June 9, 2009, 06:40 PM
A couple of foulers would have helped. It's not parallax. It may be inconsistent shoulder pressure. Get rid of the vertical stringing and you have a really nice 10 shot group.

Oh yea, was there any wind at your back or in your face that was changing?

JDGray
June 9, 2009, 07:16 PM
Oh yea, was there any wind at your back or in your face that was changing?


Yes....The wind hasn't stopped in weeks:D There was a swirling breeze that day, with 10mph gust now and then.
It may be inconsistent shoulder pressure

That is something I'm guilty of, and need to work on.

rangerruck
June 9, 2009, 08:33 PM
many , many problems. First, and biggest, YOU ARE SHOOTING OFF A BIPOD!!!!
never shoot off a bipod for groups, unless you are a masochist. Secondly, most of what i see is verticle. this leads me to believe you are having some trigger issues, some breathing issues, and possibly some bbl issues, but the group is not big enough to worry about, as far as bbl issues go. I would get a better trigger, or improve yours with homemade stoning and tweaks. then you trigger control, and breathing needs much work. Also you are shooting way too fast, for groups, that is unless you become a better technical shooter, then you can go this fast. Otherwise, I recommend that no one, no matter how good, how used to your weapon you are, how many rounds you put down it, how many times you have handloaded for it, etc., etc.,... never shoot that fast. 30 seconds between shots is better. If you must shoot off a bipod, put the feet on a superslick mylar hard sheet, or slick cutting board of some kind; this will take the torque off of the legs, and thus the bbl. Lastly we don't know anything about your ammo, really. could it maybe like something better and you just
don't know, or haven't found it yet?
Also, you mentioned clean; how clean? did you inspect, especially for copper streaks? I read an article about 1 year ago, and it covered cleaning and first shots, and then groups. it covered a very large amount of weapons, in semi, pump, lever, you name it. old rifles, new ones, scoped, non scoped, everything. Except for the rugers, and no matter what calibers, every other rifle, benefitted from a closer to poa shot, and follow up group shot, from a known, clean bbl, that had been cleaned and rested, for at least 1 day. and Also, the most accurate where the bolties, and ar semis, top cals were 243, 223, and up to 7mm, with a couple doing very well with 308's.

Lastly, for group shooting, 4 lbs is too heavy; great for hunting, but too heavy.
2.5 lbs is the perfect combo , for hunting safe, and group shooting. under 2 lbs, for target/group
shooting. Really better at ounces if a dedicated target shooter. not too mention, your trigger is
proly a 2 stage; one stage is physically better/ tighter to shoot type trigger.

JDGray
June 9, 2009, 08:48 PM
Thanks for all the advice;) My son edited the vidio to remove dead time, I do wait a good thirty seconds between shots. I will try waiting a bit longer, however, to see if it helps. Breathing is an issue, and so is my heart beating. I usually take a deep breath, and exhale slowly while holding on target, and squeeze off when I'm about completely exhaled. Shooting is from prone, usually from unlevel ground.

JDGray
June 9, 2009, 08:49 PM
Double post

benzy2
June 9, 2009, 08:58 PM
Well I disagree a bit with the whole pause 30 second thing. Unless you are heating the barrel too hot at the end of a run to open things up shoot them as fast as you can get a good sight picture. When you watch the guys shooting top end bench rifles they will run them as fast as they can get back on target as long as conditions have held the same. You can only shoot as many as your barrel will allow before opening groups up but fast is better, especially if conditions hold for a little while then switch.

Next time out I would run a few foulers first and go from there. The other question I have is are you using wind flags? Honestly without flags its tough to get much below 1 MOA consistently especially if as you said conditions are changing.

JDGray
June 9, 2009, 09:22 PM
With those first two shots out of the way, the group measured .870"

I've got a bunch of stuff to work on next time out, but cant change up but one thing at a time, or I wont know what helped. Getting a good consistant shoulder hold is one thing I know will help, and trying to remember to reset my bipod everytime is another. The barrel is said to be .75 moa accurate, but how many shot groups do the Factories base this on?

Walkalong
June 9, 2009, 09:31 PM
YOU ARE SHOOTING OFF A BIPOD!!!!It has to make things tougher. One more thing to get just right each time.

Well I disagree a bit with the whole pause 30 second thingAgreed. That heavy barrel should be able to take a 10 shot string without issues.

with 10mph gust now and then.Oh the joy.....:D

benzy2
June 9, 2009, 09:34 PM
I think they are looking at 3 shots but who knows. I would bet they are using a much better rest as well as a much more powerful scope. I think the foulers would be a great first step. Then watching the bipod each shot as well as consistent form would also be good ideas to do every time shooting. If that doesn't get you better results you can work on a different rest and different load. Also what type of bullet are you using? If they are hunting grade that is already pretty good.

Walkalong
June 9, 2009, 09:43 PM
Oh yea.

Wind flags are a must for trying to shoot them all through one hole, but not needed to shoot 1 MOA. They would, of course help, but for normal shooting one can "feel" the breeze on your face (front/right side/left side etc), the back of your neck, and you can keep and eye on limbs or grass or bushes etc. Feel your surroundings. One good stiff gust in your face can put that bullet low vs no wind, and much lower vs one shot with a breeze on the back of your neck. ;)

JDGray
June 9, 2009, 09:54 PM
Also what type of bullet are you using? If they are hunting grade that is already pretty good.

My load is 60gr Sierra Varminters, 24gr H335, LC brass, CCI 400s. All charges are weighed.

If I waited for a calm day, I'd never get to shoot:D But it sure would be nice for once, one less variable!!

benzy2
June 9, 2009, 09:57 PM
Those are good bullets but I wouldn't expect them to do what the match bullets will do. I would think there is some more left you could get out of them but if you want those really itty bitty groups you are going to have to move to match specific bullets that won't do as well on game.

longdayjake
June 9, 2009, 10:03 PM
Here is what I would do. First off I would shoot the gun about 500-700 times. Then I would try shooting for groups. My guns always shoot better when they have had a little break in. Or maybe I just get used to them and I shoot better with them after 500 rounds.

Second I would take off that bipod (they're good for hunting but not so much for targets) and try a bench rest. Also, bushnell is not exactly known for their amazing quality but some swear by them. You have a really nice rifle, don't be afraid to put a really nice scope on it if you want to KNOW its not the scope. Try 23 grains instead of the 24. I personally get better groups with that and so have others that I know. I have seen groups like that with light bullets, but 62-69 grain bullets do well at grouping. That said, your rifle is capable of better groups so you need to just take out as much "you" factor as you can.

FlyinBryan
June 9, 2009, 10:16 PM
i just want you all to know that the auther of this thread is currently leading the june ar15 match in the 100yd scoped class, which is class#4

http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv162/flyinbryan_photos/LEADERBOARD.gif

any bad advice you guys could give him would be greatly appreciated.

(just kidding jd>:-))

but seriously guys:

ad-bay ointers-pay ease-play

Maverick223
June 9, 2009, 10:43 PM
One good stiff gust in your face can put that bullet low vs no windNaw you want to turn into the wind to help create lift. A stout tail wind will increase your stall speed. :neener:

Oh...and on a serious not I agree, the wind likely played a factor. :)

rangerruck
June 10, 2009, 12:44 AM
Now that I keep getting more and more detail of your shooting; WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT!!!! Dude, you are shooting from the prone unsupported, with a heaving chest on the ground, unsupported bipod legs, and other hendrances. I would now have to say, you are shooting fantastic really!
I mean, there are small things we could allways work on, such as breathing, trigger tweaking mods, trigger control, etc., but from all that I read now,
shooting a 1 inch group at 100 yds, prone unsupported, off of bipods is some great shooting!!! Really, keep it up, you will only get better.

JDGray
June 10, 2009, 07:39 AM
WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT!!!!

Wasn't complaining at all. Just thought the first 6 shots, making three seperate little 2 hole groups, was odd. The scope is not adjustable for parallax, and there is some at 100yrds. The reason for the vidio was, I wanted to see the hole appear, before you heard the crack of the rifle. I'll do it againg at 300yrds, should get the effect at that distance. This vidio sure has been educational for me, and I appreciate all the feedback. Looks like their closing in on me in the plate match!!:eek::D

Walkalong
June 10, 2009, 06:27 PM
Most scopes for rifles are set parallax free at 100 yards.

Shotgun scopes, handgun scopes, and rimfire scopes are usually set for 50 or 75 yards. IIRC

You should be OK there.

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