Calling all Florida FFLs!


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Packman
June 9, 2009, 09:23 AM
Hello All,

I'm currently negotiating a business transaction, and I am requesting the assistance of any current FFL holder that is intimately familiar with Florida law.

Here's the situation: I'm negotiating the purchase of a handgun in a private, FTF deal. I'm 19. The seller is willing to proceed upon condition of speaking with an FFL to confirm the legality of the deal. Thus, I ask any FFL who would be interested in assisting to either respond or (preferably) drop me a PM.

Thanks very much,
Packman

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maskedman504
June 9, 2009, 09:36 AM
At 19 you can purchase a shotgun; 21 for other long guns and pistols.

legumeofterror
June 9, 2009, 09:42 AM
that's completely wrong. you can purchase any long gun at 18, and a handgun at 21 from an FFL. in a private sale to someone within the state you can buy a handgun at 18.

maskedman504
June 9, 2009, 09:46 AM
After reading some more;

A private seller can sell a handgun to anyone over 18;

An FFL can only sell a handgun to a person 21 or older.

Sorry for my mistake.

Packman
June 9, 2009, 09:54 AM
Originally Posted by Legumeofterror:
you can purchase any long gun at 18, and a handgun at 21 from an FFL. in a private sale to someone within the state you can buy a handgun at 18.

Exactly. What I'm looking for is an FFL who'd be willing to attest to that fact to the seller.

maskedman504
June 9, 2009, 10:04 AM
You could print the statute out and show it to him:

2)(a) A person may not knowingly or willfully sell or transfer a firearm to a minor under 18 years of age, except that a person may transfer ownership of a firearm to a minor with permission of the parent or guardian. A person who violates this paragraph commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

http://leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/SEC17.HTM&Title=->2008->Ch0790->Section%2017#0790.17

Packman
June 9, 2009, 10:22 AM
Yeah, tried that. Plus the Federal one under 922. Says he wants to hear it from an FFL. Which, truthfully, kind of baffles me, since it's not really an FFL matter. But, it's a nice gun, and if I can work it out without a horrendous amount of effort...

divemedic
June 9, 2009, 05:16 PM
How about from an attorney? On page 21 of this book (http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FFL&Product_Code=Florida-Firearms-Law-Use-Ownership-Book&Category_Code=Florida-Firearms-Law-Use-And-Ownership-Book-Info), available from most Florida gun stores, the author (who is one of the best firearms attorneys in the state) states that a FTF for a handgun is legal for under 21/over 18 purchase.

jhco
June 9, 2009, 05:19 PM
How about you meet him at a local gun shop and have the owner tell him what he wants to hear? That to me seems to be the simple solution.

mgkdrgn
June 9, 2009, 05:49 PM
Hello All,

I'm currently negotiating a business transaction, and I am requesting the assistance of any current FFL holder that is intimately familiar with Florida law.

Here's the situation: I'm negotiating the purchase of a handgun in a private, FTF deal. I'm 19. The seller is willing to proceed upon condition of speaking with an FFL to confirm the legality of the deal. Thus, I ask any FFL who would be interested in assisting to either respond or (preferably) drop me a PM.

Thanks very much,
Packman

As you are 19, an FFL can't have anything to do with this deal. Why would they want to get involved with it?

mgkdrgn
June 9, 2009, 05:50 PM
How about you meet him at a local gun shop and have the owner tell him what he wants to hear? That to me seems to be the simple solution.

Isn't that a little like going to a bar and bringing your own bottle?

bubba15301
June 9, 2009, 05:54 PM
i thought all handgun purchasers had to go thru the federal instant check

jhco
June 9, 2009, 06:11 PM
Isn't that a little like going to a bar and bringing your own bottle?

Not really it's like going to a bar and asking the bartender if its legal for you to drink somewhere else.

Dosn't really matter what its like as long as it solves his problem, hes asking for help from an ffl and that would be doing just that.

rcmodel
June 9, 2009, 06:17 PM
Go here and use the link to find FFL's nearest you who might help.

http://www.auctionarms.com/help/fflnetwork.cfm

rc

TechBrute
June 9, 2009, 06:21 PM
i thought all handgun purchasers had to go thru the federal instant check
Not in free states. Are you in California?

Good luck finding an FFL that will tell him what the story is. In my experience, FFLs don't necissarily know the law, they only know certain rules that they must function in. An example are the FFLs that won't accept a shipment for a rifle unless it's from another FFL. It's perfectly legal for an individual to ship a gun straight to an FFL, but that doesn't stop the FFLs from making up their own rules. I don't blame them, they all function in a state of justified paranoia of the ATF.

Grey_Mana
June 9, 2009, 06:35 PM
Try your state NRA, or a local gun club.
You could point the guy to NRA's cheat sheet
http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/FLSL.pdf but if he doesn't consider the law to be clear, he probably won't consider that clear either.

Packman
June 9, 2009, 07:38 PM
How about you meet him at a local gun shop and have the owner tell him what he wants to hear? That to me seems to be the simple solution.

That would be ideal, unfortunately, of my local gunshops, one refuses to even discuss handguns with me, one is very friendly but poorly informed (Asked him about it a while back. He stated I was wrong, and offered me his reference books to prove it. When I pointed out the statute in his own book, he smiled sadly and said "that's not the case, son.") and the other treats me like a jerk, so he gets none of my business.

Thus, I have turned to The High Road in hopes of finding an FFL from florida who's actually intelligent and informed, since the seller has stipulated that he desires confirmation of legality from an FFL. Why? Beyond me. FFL's aren't qualified to interpret the law or give advice.

Divemedic, I like your suggestion. I'll examine that possibility.

Again, if there are any FFL holders interested in helping me out with a quick phone call, I'd be much obliged.

Packman

FlaChef
June 9, 2009, 08:25 PM
check on FL Shooter's Network, or Glock Talk has a pretty active FL section.

But truthfully the book previously mentioned is what judges and cops reference when they have gun questions. if you have a printed copy of the book (not just a print out from a web page) then would that satisfy the guy. Heck, offer to buy the guy a copy of the book.

What part of FL are you in anyway?

In FL a handgun private sale is about as straightforward as selling your washer. Hand over money, hand over gun (oh, buyer should show a valid FL ID and tell the seller "i am not a felon or otherwise prohibited person). Doing a bill of sale is probably a good idea, but not necessary.

numaone
June 10, 2009, 01:03 AM
At a gun show in Palm Beach County, FL, I saw a sign saying all private gun sales in the County MUST go through an FFL. I was looking online to find verification of this, but I couldn't find anything either way. Perhaps someone can shed some light on it. I tend to believe it because the gun laws here stink. 5 day waiting period on handguns And long-guns without CCW. Luckily I have mine, but still a pain...

Numaone

Packman
June 10, 2009, 09:30 AM
At a gun show in Palm Beach County, FL, I saw a sign saying all private gun sales in the County MUST go through an FFL. I was looking online to find verification of this, but I couldn't find anything either way. Perhaps someone can shed some light on it. I tend to believe it because the gun laws here stink. 5 day waiting period on handguns And long-guns without CCW. Luckily I have mine, but still a pain...

Depends on your county ordinances. Some are cool (Volusia) some are lame (Dade). On that side of the state, there's a lot of not-so-cool counties, I've noticed.

ems773
June 10, 2009, 04:12 PM
Contact your local ATF office and have an agent tell him. ATF agents are pretty friendly and if he can't believe them then nothing will work.

Tiomoid
June 10, 2009, 10:14 PM
On the county issue, Lee seems to be fairly friendly to the gun community. Never had a problem buying...

dullh
June 10, 2009, 10:55 PM
Most FFL's are ignorant of the law. I sold a handgun on an internet board to a guy out of state, shipped it to his FFL, his FFL refused to transfer it to him because it didn't come to him from a dealer here - I sent it directly to the dealer. I called the dealer, told him he was wrong, Mr. Hapless Hick dealer wouldn't hear it. I called the ATF field office near him, they told me I was right and, while he was wrong about the law, they could not tell him anything because the individual FFL holder reserves the right to refuse to receive a firearm from a non-FFL. Me and the buyer basically haranged the guy until he completed the transfer, with the buyer calling me to say he'd never again darking the stubborn b*****d's door.

The other situation could be the dealer does not want to risk his neck over something that while legal, he just plain doesn't want to do or be involved in. I don't blame them. As stated above the seller having to hear state law from a federally licensed dealer is just plain nuts. A private in -state transfer should in no way involve a federal-anything. If the printed statute ain't good enough for this guy I say thank him for his time, tell him where he can put his "good deal" and wait until you can score a deal with someone who's not scaredy-paranoid.

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