Production .338-06 rifles?


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ArmedBear
June 10, 2009, 05:03 PM
Does anyone make a production .338-06 hunting rifle currently?

Or is it a custom proposition only?

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rcmodel
June 10, 2009, 05:17 PM
Seems a company named A-Square copyrighted the .338-06 name several years ago and charged royalties on anyone who wanted to sell arms or ammo by that name.
A-Square later went bankrupt.

I think Weather still sells rifles & ammo for it.


rc

ArmedBear
June 10, 2009, 05:19 PM
Weatherby sells the brass and ammo, but AFAIK no rifles.

Too bad. Seems like a cartridge with real potential.

rcmodel
June 10, 2009, 05:22 PM
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/69217

rc

jmr40
June 10, 2009, 05:26 PM
They no longer list the 338-06 as an option on the Weatherby website. Don't know if they still make them or not. Midway still lists factory loaded ammo from at least 2 different makers.

saturno_v
June 10, 2009, 05:48 PM
What is the usefulness of this cartridge other than for recoil sensitive shooters??

Check on MidwayUSA, on average ammo cost more than your regular 338 Win Mag which has significantly more power, wider bullet weight choices and a plethora of rifles chambered for it.

IMHO it will remain a niche cartridge with limited diffusion...

BWB
June 10, 2009, 06:15 PM
Consider the .338 Hornady/Ruger. Equals or betters the .338 Win Mag and useable in a short action Ruger Hawkeye.

ArmedBear
June 10, 2009, 08:10 PM
What is the usefulness of this cartridge other than for recoil sensitive shooters??


Velocity and trajectory a lot like a .30-06, but with heavier bullets for elk, in a mid-sized rifle that doesn't weigh too much. No belted case required.

.338 Federal is slow. .308's trajectory isn't the greatest as it is, and .338 Federal shaves another what, 200 fps off the .308.

Is there a production gun in .338 RCM other than the Hawkeye series?

Yeah, a .338 WinMag is a good option; I'm just wondering what other options there are.

Robert
June 10, 2009, 09:41 PM
ArmedBear,
35 Whelen? Reform the 30-06 and from I understand the performance of both the 35 and the 338 are fairly close in the short to medium range. The 338 does have the advantage at longer ranges. Federal and Double Tap make 35 Whelen ammo that I know of off hand. Dies are easy to come by for the 35 as well. There is also the 35 AI Whelen and the 35 Brown Whelen but those are not in priduction in any shape or form that I know of and dies are well over $100. Not trying to derail your thread but just make a polite suggestion.

saturno_v
June 10, 2009, 09:50 PM
in a mid-sized rifle that doesn't weigh too much.

ArmedBear

My Weatherby Vanguard in 338 WIn Mag weights only 7 1/2 pounds and the recoil is not that bad (much better than I expected)...a bit stiff but manageable..

How much lighter than that you want to go in a hunting rifle??!! :D

The drawbacks of the 338-06 compared to the 338 Win Mag (cost and availability are among them) outweigh the benefits IMHO...

Uncle Mike
June 10, 2009, 10:27 PM
338-06??? *Deleted*

rangerruck
June 10, 2009, 10:39 PM
... there is a 338 federal...

ECVMatt
June 10, 2009, 11:00 PM
Mine was made from a Remington action, so it is not a production rifle.

I love the .338-06. It is easy to form, feeds smooth like an 06 in the action, and hits with plenty of power. You also get more rounds in the magazine if that matters and it seems to perform good in a standard bbl length.

There is also no belt which is a big plus for me. I am not into the whole magnum craze that is going on right now. Do belts go on folks who are short and fat?? No belts and the pants fall down. Not sure how all that works.

I would rather get closer with a sensible caliber, that is the kind of hunting I enjoy.

To each his own though...I know lots of folks with the Win Mag who love them.

Good luck with your search.

Matt

ArmedBear
June 11, 2009, 12:46 PM
The drawbacks of the 338-06 compared to the 338 Win Mag (cost and availability are among them) outweigh the benefits IMHO...

If the .338-06 were a mainstream cartridge, that wouldn't be true, though.

The .338-06 gives up maybe 100 fps to the WinMag, with a fair amount less powder, a regular case and chamber. .338 WinMag is the round that really doesn't make sense, objectively.

You also get more rounds in the magazine if that matters

It sure matters where you are, in California, where if you throw your rifle in a vehicle while hunting, you can't legally have a round chambered. If you just want to be able to carry the rifle with whatever fits in the magazine, it's limiting when your magazine holds 2 rounds, 3 at best.

and it seems to perform good in a standard bbl length.


That matters to me. It's one reason I am not overly interested in the WSMs. Most of the WSM guns I've seen have long barrels and weigh close to the same as any other Magnum. I can't see the point of a short-action round if the rifle ends up the same size.

What do you have to do, to form the .338-06 brass? Just run .30-06 brass through your sizing die and trim it, or does it take more than that?

jerkface11
June 11, 2009, 12:53 PM
The best way to get one is to buy a cheap used Savage/Stevens then order an Adams and Bennet barrel for it. Yes all you do is form and trim .30-06 brass.

ArmedBear
June 11, 2009, 12:55 PM
Do you use a regular sizing die like you use whenever you reload, or do you need a special die, just for when you first form the brass?

dubbleA
June 11, 2009, 01:06 PM
You might want to look at Cooper, they offer it in their M52,which by the way is a decent rifle.

jerkface11
June 11, 2009, 01:08 PM
Just run it through a sizing die. Make sure you have a good case lube though. Mine likes the 200 grain Speer bullets and a lot of Varget.

ArmedBear
June 11, 2009, 01:17 PM
You might want to look at Cooper, they offer it in their M52,which by the way is a decent rifle.

No doubt it is. And I might consider one, the day after I have 100% confirmation that Dan Cooper and his family are completely divested from the company.

There are plenty of local gunsmiths who could use the money from a rebarrel.

saturno_v
June 11, 2009, 01:19 PM
ArmedBear

The .338-06 gives up maybe 100 fps to the WinMag, with a fair amount less powder, a regular case and chamber. .338 WinMag is the round that really doesn't make sense, objectively.


Hodgdon published reloading data give between 150 and 200 fps advantage to the 338 Win Mag over the 338-06 for various 225 and 250 gr. bullets (both 24" barrels)...not an huge difference but still more than irrelevant.....granted, I'm the one that disputed in the first place the usefulness of the super-duper new 338 compared to the 338 Win Mag....

But the difference is that, at the moment, that 150-200 fps disadvantage of the 338-06 comes at an actually higher average ammo price and much less availability..the hyper 338s have an average 200-350 fps advantage (depending on the specific round, 338 Lapua, 338 RUM or 338-378) but with average ammo and rifle prices that can be as high as 3 times compared to a 338 Win Mag and much less availability as well....

The 338 WM hit just right, in price and performance.

Furthermore, no 300 grainers in 338-06 (as far as I know), which can give you much more flexibility...a 338 Win Mag with 300 gr. Woodleigh bullets has been proven to be an excellent African buffalo stopper (where legal).....

On the other side the new superboomer 338s cannot go higher (again, as far as I know) than 300 grains, like a regular 338 WM.

If the .338-06 were a mainstream cartridge, that wouldn't be true, though.


If i had blue eyes and be 6.5 tall I would be an Hollywood star....:D:p

Yes if it were a mainstream caliber and cost a bit less than the 338 WM with the same general availability it would be a good proposition in its own terms.

Unfortunately the situation, for various reasons, is this and this is the market we have to deal with....as it is, a 338-06 rifle, IMHO, makes very little sense unless you have very low tolerance to recoil.

jerkface11
June 11, 2009, 01:38 PM
Saturno if you shoot a .338-06 you don't buy your ammo.

saturno_v
June 11, 2009, 01:44 PM
Saturno if you shoot a .338-06 you don't buy your ammo.


True

But if you go for a hunt of a lifetime in AK the the airline loses your bag what you do???

And you still need to buy or make a rifle....

My $399 Weatherby Vanguard grouped less than 1 MOA (not in my hands...I still have to get used to the recoil :D:p).....

Many reloaders think that the belt is not that big of an issue anyway...

Ben Shepherd
June 11, 2009, 01:46 PM
The best way to get one is to buy a cheap used Savage/Stevens then order an Adams and Bennet barrel for it. Yes all you do is form and trim .30-06 brass.
Armed Bear-

Buddy of mine did just that. Happy as a clam with it too. Groups run right around 1.5" @ 100. Tips elk over right nicely.

Case forming, as noted above, is straightforward and simple.

I myself decided to step up to a 35 Brown-Whelen. Bigger hole:D Little bit of loss in flexibility vs. the 338-06 though.

usmc1371
June 11, 2009, 01:50 PM
I don't even hand load yet but I am always on the look out for a weatherby ultralight 338-06 just because I want one. My little bro shoots both 338 win mag and 338-378 so I am very fimaliar with what they will do. I just think its fun to have a rifle that not every one in deer camp has. Might even have my old ruger m77 30-06 rebarlled.

dubbleA
June 11, 2009, 02:04 PM
Glad to answer the original question.

Quote:
You might want to look at Cooper, they offer it in their M52,which by the way is a decent rifle.

No doubt it is. And I might consider one, the day after I have 100% confirmation that Dan Cooper and his family are completely divested from the company

I am at a loss myself, I have a bunch of Cooper rifles and now they are worthless and can not even give them away.:banghead::D

Arkel23
June 11, 2009, 04:43 PM
My $399 Weatherby Vanguard grouped less than 1 MOA (not in my hands...I still have to get used to the recoil )..... What caliber you shooting?

MMCSRET
June 11, 2009, 04:50 PM
I stopped in to talk to the people at Cooper in april when I was visiting friends and relatives in the Bitterroot Valley and they were swamped with orders, Had shipped everything they had on hand and I couldn't even look at a new one. I stopped at Sportsmans Surplus in Missoula and wanted to look at one, they are a stocking dealer, and they said they were back ordered on Coopers. They had big adds in all the local papers wanting to buy any and all used guns. Politics doesn't seem to affect Cooper production in any negative way.

saturno_v
June 11, 2009, 05:14 PM
What caliber you shooting?

338 Win Mag, 100 yards

Cohibra45
June 11, 2009, 05:17 PM
You might want to try these:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=131096311
Start at $850.00
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=131144539
Start at $1500.00
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=131183100
Start at $1250.00
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=131272023
$1325.00
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=130961101
Start at $675.00

dubbleA
June 11, 2009, 05:22 PM
Politics doesn't seem to affect Cooper production in any negative way.

+1 true that

I have had waits up to 13 months myself on Coopers. I believe it depends on their production schedule/ what model they are running. To bad a few consider them the plague:uhoh:

TurboFC3S
June 11, 2009, 05:25 PM
.338 Federal is slow. .308's trajectory isn't the greatest as it is, and .338 Federal shaves another what, 200 fps off the .308.

I have a .338 Federal. Actually at the same bullet weight, the .338 Federal will be faster than the .308 because the shorter bullet has less bearing surface and take up less case capacity.

The nice thing about 338 Fed and 338-06 is that you can use 308 or 30-06 brass and just neck it up in one pass, that saves a ton of money.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
June 11, 2009, 05:44 PM
What in the HECK is ".338-'06 Weatherby Magnum", as is marked on those Weatherby boxes in the 2nd auction linked to above??? :scrutiny:

Cohibra45
June 11, 2009, 06:36 PM
Have no clue about the Weatherby 'Magnum' 338-06.......

But the 4th one down is a 338-06 AI (Ackley Improved) and although Ackley didn't make this particular round it is dedicated to him. The shoulder is angled more and therefore contains more powder and more umph!!!

This is really a great looking rifle!!

ArmedBear
June 11, 2009, 07:28 PM
Politics doesn't seem to affect Cooper production in any negative way.

That's fine.

Insofar as I have control over it, ny money goes to whom I decide it goes.

RonE
June 11, 2009, 09:23 PM
With modern powders, to me, it makes more sense to shoot 190-220 grain bullets in a 30-06 than to go to the trouble of rebarrelling and then having to neck up '06 cases.

jmr40
June 11, 2009, 10:38 PM
I'm fairly new to the 338-06 game, but here are my thoughts. About 6 months ago I found a custom rifle built in the caliber with a Zeiss scope on it. I offered to just buy the scope, but the dealer would not sell seperately. Since the rifle had been sitting on his shelf for over 2 years he wanted to get rid of it. He had bought it off a regular of his who had lost his job and was into it cheap and passed the deal on to me. I planned to keep the scope and sell the rifle, but since it came with 1 box of handloads I decided to shoot it a bit first.

Took a few rounds to get used to the rifle, but the last 4 groups of 3 shots went into less than 1" at 100 yards. Recoil was no worse than my 30-06 and the rifle weighs right at 8 lbs scoped. Only slightly more than my 30-06. I have since decided to keep it and after studying the round for a few months I have decided it makes a lot of sense. With the right loads it would be a good rifle for anything in North America. The 338 win mag will probably be a better choice at longer ranges, but the 338-06 should be just as effictive on large game at 100 yards as the magnum round would be at 200 yards.

It can also be used for whitetails without being completely overkill. Especially with the lighter more compact rifles when compared to the 338 mag.

It is strictly a handloading round. For about the same cost as 1 box of factory loads I can buy a set of dies and a box of 338 bullets. I have considered the possibility of losing ammo and having to pick up a box of factory loads but have decided that if that happens I am just as screwed with the 338-06 as my 30-06. I spend all summer trying different factory and handloads getting my rifles sighted in. If something were to happen to my ammo, chances are slim I could just pick up a box off the shelf and have it hit where my ammo is hitting.

I realize it is a niche round and always will be, but ammo is easily made for it and will always be an option for reloaders

SeekHer
June 12, 2009, 12:41 PM
I had a spare action lying around that my friend "borrowed" and built a nice .333/06 on it and when he got it finished we took it to the barn at the farm during Xmas holidays, where we have a long distance target range set up and as he was about to shoot for score at 300 yards (an hour after sighting in at 100) a coyote appears at the 600 yard target stand lifts his legs and starts to mark territory...my buddy quickly dials up, sights and squeezes off a round that flipped the yote sideways and dropped it there...

So you can also use it as a varmint cartridge as well! :p

MMCSRET
June 12, 2009, 11:54 PM
I had a 338-06 built up on a Winchester M70 Push feed action. Nosler built 180 gr. Ballistic Tips for a couple of years, it proved to be an excellent mule deer cartridge. Unfortunately the Nosler BT is no longer available. I have about 80 of them and a proven load so I should be ok until I'm about 120 yrs old!!!! The 180 would make 3000 FPS in a 24" barrel after it had about 1500 rounds thru it. I don't think a 30-06 will do that with a 180 gr. bullet.

freakshow10mm
June 13, 2009, 12:10 AM
The .338-06 is definitely one cartridge I wish was more accepted. It's early life was the .333-06 OKH, but when the 338 Win Mag came about they just used those bullets instead. It's pretty close in performance to the 35 Whelen, which came out when over .30 rifles were rare and the .375 H&H Mag was too expensive to import.

The official name is the 338-06 A Square. Weatherby is the only major manufacturer to have made production rifles in it. I wanted a Super Big Game Master in this for many years but built myself one from a heat treated Mauser surplus action.

The 338-06 handles heavier bullets and is a better choice on large game than the parent 30-06.

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