[NCWanderer]

Well......I've fired my 1858 Remy only 78 times so far and loving every shot. I'm hooked now for sure. :) Yep I'm keeping count....don't know why. But I do know I still have a lot to learn. I found if I just keep digging on this forum I can find answers to most of my questions. That way you guys don't have to waste time covering the same subjects over and over.

Now I do have another question. I've been cleaning my gun with hot tap water with a little dish detergent. Then I rinse everything real good and dry all the parts in the oven. Then give all the parts a good coat of Break Free CLP before reassembly. I'm using it now because that's what I have on hand and I've been using it for years on all me cartridge guns. But I haven't seen much mentioned about Break Free on here. So I'm wondering if it's OK for BP guns as well, or should I be using something else?
Thanks

[mykeal]

I have no personal experience with Break Free CLP, but from what I've read on this and other forums, and from several sales sites, it's another in a long line of mineral oil (or 'cutting' oil) based cleaners/lubricants. A good example is Ballistol, but Thompson Center's No. 17 and No. 13, Butch's Bore Shine and several other products are in that category.

Break Free CLP's descriptions tout 'synthetic oils' as the active ingredients; strictly speaking, even good old Shell 10W-30 is a 'synthetic' oil since it's made by refining and cracking crude petroleum, so that doesn't tell us very much.

The mineral oil based products are excellent cleaners/lubricators. I can't see anything technically wrong with using Break Free CLP, and I've not seen any significant complaints from those who reported having used it.

I can personally vouch for Ballistol, which appears to be closely related to Break Free CLP from all I can gather.

[Ginormous]

Trivia tidbit here for anyone who enjoys this sort of thing:

Break_Free CLP enjoys a U.S. Military Mil-Spec as well: MIL-L-63460 D (http://hazard.com/msds/f2/byx/byxxt.html)

At one time, it was implied it might have been involved in the explosion of the USS Iowa's number 2 16" gun turret on April 19, 1989. The implication was that its "slickness" contributed to the over-ram condition believed to have caused that explosion. 47 sailors ultimately died from this disaster.

[BCRider]

New to BP myself. In reading the sticky at the top of the listings I found the one about not using oils related to dead dinosaurs. Instead the writer recomends vegtable based oils. Now I don't know what the long term issues with this are but for my first weekend of shooting my BP revolvers in a club CAS event I found that the black residue cleaned out extremely easily both with a quick barrel squirt, brush and swab of Windex prior to lunch and again with the dumping into a pot of hot soapy water at the end of the day. I was also able to shoot all six rounds for the day without needing to clean the cylinders. Gotta like that.

My only concern is the longer term storage issues. In light of that I'll be swabbing the chambers and barrels once ever few days for a week or two to see if the patches come out with the telltale brown of rust. And for the winter I'm inclined to remove the grips to a separate ziplock bag and put the steel assemblies in a big baggie loaded down with regular dead dino juice since I KNOW that stuff has rust inhibitors.

For the record I'm using Canola oil since my Olive oil is the good quality fancy name brand extra virgin stuff for salads and cost too dearly to use on my guns. Besides it has a strong green colour cast to it and I don't want to pull the patches out and think my guns are getting mouldy.... :D

[Ratdog68]

Leave it to a Cunuck to mis-spell "moldy". :D

What do we do with a guy that thinks the good stuff is too good for his BP guns? I don't get it.

[Ginormous]

We take back his secret decoder ring and immediately change the secret handshake!

[earplug]

I'd get hungry if I smelled burning Olive oil.

[BCRider]

We take back his secret decoder ring and immediately change the secret handshake!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooo.........<massive inhale wheeze> OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooo ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

It was the idea of the guns looking like they were moldy (sorry about the "u". Got carried away with the whole British schtick) and not the cost... well, that and the smell of the fancy olive oil may have had me reaching to sprinkle some parmisan cheeze on my Remmies and start licking them clean. And who KNOWS what THAT would lead to.

[Ratdog68]

Isn't that also grounds for immediate confiscation of twins and divvy 'em up between the two of us? :evil: Do ya think he'll resist confiscation much? I'll distract him with a crumpet. :D

[RON in PA]

I've been using Break-Free as a follow up to hot water and soap or Hoppe's 9 Plus in my muzzle loaders since it came out in the mid-1970s. No rust.

[BCRider]

Oooo, a crumpet?... does that have marmalade on it?



NO! M-u-s-t r-e-s-i-s-t....BACK YOU VARMINTS! <runs to frantically load and cap in preparation to repel this dastardly attack>

It's day 3.5 now since I cleaned and oiled the babies. Reading this reminded me and I just went down to run a patch down the barrels. Other than some small bits of black they came out clean. So for the short term I now know that the Canola oil does not promote rusting. Being a vegtable based oil I had some concerns about this but it would seem to not be an issue. It also seems to do a pretty good job of softening and lifting the really stubborn old residue stuck in the grooves or whereever. The barrel patches HAD come out clean when I did a thorough cleaning last Sunday so it appears that the Canola oil has some pretty good ability to soften and lift the residue.

As another nice bonus it was sure nice and easy to just put a generous drop of Canola onto each ball and watch as it wicked around the periphery of the joint to seal it. Compared to jamming bore butter or Crisco in there it was a piece of crum.... er... cake.

I(We) still don't know about the longer term protection that the Canola will provide but so far I'm very impressed with it at least for use on the day of shooting and for short term storage.

Something else that occured to me while typing this reply is that I did not clean the cylinder or cylinder rod all day. That's 30 shots for each pistol. I'd seen some references to the powder tending to stiffen up the cylinder rotation with residue buildup. However while it wasn't quite as smooth to spin them at the end of the day they were both still easily used and could easily have shot another 30 balls from each. I'm not sure if this is normal, good or excellent but it means I don't need to strip down the guns for cleaning mid day to avoid any jams for a typical day of CAS shooting. And that in itself is a definite plus.

Today I'm going to run another test for this stuff. I'm going to set up some raw steel scrap samples and set them out into the weather. One will be just raw and de-greased, one will be protected with dead dino oil and one with Canola. The oiled ones will be checked for beading following rain, courtesy of the hose since it's nice up this way for some odd reason, and touched up as required. Meanwhile we'll see if any rust sneaks past.

[Ginormous]

Well if Break-free can prevent or delay corrosion on guns in a marine environment, I'm sure it's good enough for any guns I am likely to own, and I wouldn't hesitate to use it. Since Ballistol is what I currently use, and can easily find, I'll stick with that.

But, if I could afford extra virgin olive oil, I'd probably put that on my crumpet, if I knew what one was.

Jelly donuts anyone? http://www.dobhran.com/images/donut-donut3.gif

[BHP FAN]

I use WD40, but you have to make sure you get it all out of the cylinders,chambers and nipples,or you'll have a misfire.Alcohol on a Q-tip swab works admirably for the job,or you can just fire six ''clearing shots'' with just caps,if you have plenty,and don't mind the waste.

[GRIZ22]

I'm not a big time blackpowder shooter but when i clean as you do I use WD40 to displace the water (if any), wipe off the WD40 (gets some more gunk off sometimes), and then using a small brush paint my BP revolver with Breakfree and swab down the bore and chambers. It works for me.

[NCWanderer]

BCRIDER
Thanks for the info. and keep us posted on how your test goes. I expect Canola is cheaper than Break Free so if your test is positive I'll most likely try it my self.
Been making some lube pills today. Been working on that for a while now and I believe I have them like I want them. I'll find out this weekend. Been slowly getting all my shootn stuff together. when I finally done most of it will probably homemade. Been wanting a cylinder loading tool but can't afford one. Been doing some googling trying to find some plans to build my own but so far I've been unsucessful. If anyone knows where to find plans for one please let me know. I'm not stingy.....just a poor boy who is pretty good with his hands and likes building my own when I can.

[NCWanderer]

Griz22 that sounds like a good idea too. Maybe I can use Canola for short term and Break Free if I'm not going to shoot for a while.

[BCRider]

NC, what tools for working metal do you have on hand? I tend to go for the fancier stuff since metal machining is one of my hobbys and I've got all typical machines that a lot of folks only dream of even at a hobby level. But there's always ways to fit the project to the tools on hand.

I used a sander to take off the plating from three 1/2 steel washers. One is bare, the second has Break Free on it and the last is wearing it's coat of Canola. Ain't Science a wondrous thing to behold in action? What? Nothing to see? Yeah, I'll be taking a picture a day starting tomorrow to track the trends.

[NCWanderer]

BC, I'm a retired machinist and my employer allowed me to do some home projects when time permitted or I could stay after hours as long as I wanted. But now I don't have much of anything at my disposal other than a drill press, welder and most other hand and power tools you will find in a typical home work shop. Beginning to wish I'd kept working a little longer.

[NCWanderer]

oops for got to mention the small table top lathe.....very small lol.

[sltm1]

NC Wanderer, Here's a loader I made a couple of years ago. Works on Remmie's, Colts and Rogers & Spencers. No special tools or machining knowledge needed. I'm a blacksmith and +-1/8' is good enough for my type of stuff.
http://www.fmtc.com/~tfl1x/Loader1.jpg
I can give you specs an more pic's if you're interested. Send me a PM.

[BHP FAN]

I LIKE it!

[Ginormous]

That horseshoe . . it's . . just . .soooo . . KEWL!

Winner!

[BCRider]

I just about spit my Scotch onto the monitor when I saw the horseshoe! THAT IS TOO KEWL ! ! !

I'm going to steal that idea.....:evil:

It fits right in with the CAS cart I saw on the weekend. Two wheels of course along with front feet made from welded horseshoes.

NC, just how small is this lathe? And being a retired machinist you already have the skills and experience to adapt your abilities to the task. Just give your head a shake and have at 'er! The only issue is that it'll likely require making up some jigs or tooling before you can do the job. A tedious procedure that I'm already VERY familiar with. Seems I can't have an idea at all around here without having to work 1 hour on tooling to allow me to do a 5 minute job. Such is the life of a machinist though. And here I always read and heard that eventually you'll have enough jigs and tooling to be able to use it on jobs without needing to make new stuff. WHEN DOES THAT PART HAPPEN ! ? ! ? ! ?

[NCWanderer]

BC you're right about that. I worked 19 years in that shop and I had all sorts of jigs and fixtures I'd made and if I were still there I would have no doubt made more by now. I'm not sure about that little rascal. I haven't used in so long. Got to get it out and clean it up because I'll probably need it for this project. I think the swing is maybe 2 inches and maybe 12 inches between centers. Told you it was small. Built it from a kit too. Ha Ha

[BCRider]

WHAAAAT? A KIT YOU SAY!

You've got me going now! You MUST post pics! If not here then PM me for an email addy. This is HOT stuff!

I don't feel worthy anymore. I just bought my machines.

Oh, I made my own Morse taper tooling holders among so many other things. This shot only shows about half of them. I made about 3 or 4 other ones to use in the mill/drill for various size shanks. They lock to the taper with a nice easy jab. Does that count towards redeeming myself in your eyes? :D

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y252/BCRider/Metalworking/Tapers.jpg

[NCWanderer]

BC You did some mighty fine work there. I'm the one who's not worthy. Got to find a way to redeem myself. In all my years in the shop never had to make anything like that. All I had to do was convince the boss that I needed it and he would get it. Those look like some he ordered for me. You must have a Bridgeport? I love those machines.
One of the most agervating jobs I did was cut some pipe threads on 4 pieces of 10 inch x 8 foot pipe. Told the boss I didn't know if I could do it. He said yes you can, so that was that.Ha Ha!!
There's nothing fancy about my little lath. You change speed by moving the belt over on the pulleys and the feed is all by hand so no threading either. I ordered it from an ad I saw in Popular Mechanics about 25 years ago. Didn't take much skill...good thing too... didn't have that much back then. More assembly than anything else. Did have to lap the ways. I've neglected it too long. Hope it's Ok. Think I'll get it out and take a look at it tomorrow.

[BCRider]

You should. You'll be surprised what you can do with that machine once you set your mind to it. Certainly it's good enough to make up the components for a rammer for cylinder loading.

No Bridgeport here although once I move from the old house to my retirement digs I've promised myself a Bridgeport clone from the Orient. I've got a Chinese 12x36 lathe, the smaller of the two mid sized mill/drills, a drill press and a honkin' big vise. You can't go wrong with an oversize vise as I'm sure you'll confirm.... :D Oh, and a 4x6 electric bandsaw becuase the hand hacksaw got old REAL fast. It's even doubled as a "precision slitting saw" on occasion :D

The morse taper fitting was more about cunning and guile than skill. I cut the taper as close as I could manage using a dial guage on an existing taper and ensuring the dial guage tip was as close to centered as I could manage using the trick of pinching a thin piece of flat shim stock between the tip and the work piece and checking that the shim sits as vertical as I can detect. Then with the "rough" cut done and and already trying to grab I put a few strokes of felt pen along the length and fit it lightly into a morse adapter socket and twisted it a few times. Then I filed the high spots a hair where the lines were scuffed away, re-did the felt pen lines, socket and twist, file, felt pen, etc, etc, until the socket adapter scuffed the lines evenly over the whole length of my taper shank. Typical home shop machining where you gotta make do and cheat like blazes :D You mentioned lapping in the bed so I'm sure you know what I'm going on about here.

Once I had my various end mill holders made up I struck an index mark on the mill/drill quill and then played with the holders with an end mill in them until I minimized the runout. At that point I put a matching index mark on the holders so the holders were easy to set to the minimal runout point in the future. That was some six to 8 years ago. They've done yoeman's duty with fine style since that time through a variety of projects.

[arcticap]

Leave it to a Cunuck to mis-spell "moldy".

What do we do with a guy that thinks the good stuff is too good for his BP guns? I don't get it.

Gee, I'm surprised that Ratdog68 hasn't referred to Canola Oil as "Canuck Oil" yet! :D
You had your chance with BCRider but you let him get away with that one Ratdog68! :neener:

ca·no·la (k-nl) KEY

NOUN:

A rapeseed oil that is very low in erucic acid content and high in monounsaturated fatty acids.

ETYMOLOGY:
Can(ada) o(il,) l(ow) a(cid)

http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/canola

[Ginormous]

ETYMOLOGY:
Can(ada) o(il,) l(ow) a(cid)

http://education.yahoo.com/reference...y/entry/canola

Well, I never knew that. And it's been in my home for years. In fact, my physician recommends all of her patients use it for anything you would normally use a higher saturated fat oil for. Supposedly it has all the good stuff a body needs without as much of the bad stuff.

Now it lubes and cleans guns too. And it's of Canadian origin. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I am amazed at the things I have learned in this forum!

[NCWanderer]

BC a Bridgeport clone along with the equipment you've already got and you will be able to make about anything you want to.
Regardless of your cheats you did an outstanding job. It makes me remember how sometimes you have to use what you've got and not what want or need to do the job.
Hey the cheat...uh method you used is very similar to the one I used to make a live center for a old old lathe we had there........I called it the "old clonker" but with some TLC she could get the job done. Don't know what kind of taper was on that old girl. Don't think it was Morse. What ever it was I used a similar method to duplicate it. Reason I bothered is that old lathe had more swing than any of or other lathes (5 in all). And I had to use it to bore out and bush a huge sprocket.
I've thought about how handy a band saw would be for me. Next time I go to Harbor Freight I'll check the price of a small one. Probably can't afford it, but I can wish and save and who knows....maybe someday. That's how I got my 1858 Remie.:)

[Glen]

You will not go wrong using Break Free CLP (cleans, lubricates, protects). I have read tests that show it to offer exceptional protection.

[BCRider]

I rank my electric cheapie bandsaw only second in importance to my drill press. It didn't start that way but it's solidly there after some 6 years of ownership. It's as important to the lathe and mill/drill use as the cutters for each of them.

Of course it all depends on how much metal working you do. From the sounds of it you've let it slide for the most part. But if the bug hits and you decide to do more metal machining work then the power bandsaw is highly recomended for that moment when you realize that you're wearing out your arms all too often.... :D

[NCWanderer]

You're right I have let it slide but I'm not going to let it go. The little lathe has been out in my storage building since I moved here about 18 months ago. It needed cleaning up before I moved, and now it's got even more dust on it and a Mud dauber nest too.:D I've decided to just go ahead and take it apart and give it a good going over. It runs fine and the belt looks good. With some elbow grease it should be fine. I've scanned a pic of it off the brochure but for some reason I can't get it into this message. Maybe I can figure it out later.
My drill press is less than a year old so I'm OK there. My welder works although the operator needs practice.:D

[BCRider]

Welding is an art and a very tender one at that. My stuff doesn't fall apart but it sure looks terrible unless I'm doing a number of longer jobs and then by the end of it the weld beads look like I know what I'm doing. I'm a couple of times a year welding sort so that's my excuse... :D

First results of the rust testing. The raw steel washers (sanded to remove the zinc flash plating) have been out in the weather for a couple of days and recieved two spritzes of water from a plant mister. The raw one has rust measles with roughly 40% surface area rusting. Both the BF and canola coated washers are bright and clean.

[NCWanderer]

Took my pistol out to shoot today and as near a I can tell the POA is about 1 to 1 1/2 inch left and about 4 to 5 inches low. About the same as last time I shot it. Think I'm going to wait another session or two before I think about getting the file out. Want to make sure it's not operator error.:D
By the time I finished shooting, ran some errands and stopped by to check on my Mom I was running out of day. But I managed to get some work done on cleaning up the lathe. That thing has almost as many nooks and crannies as my pistol. But it's going to be fine. Don't know if I mentioned that I do have a decent air compressor too. Now all I need is a band saw ......and a Bridgeport.:D
Then I reckon Break Free is OK. Now I wonder which I'll use. Canola may be the way for me to go if does as well as Break Free and is less expensive. Decisions.....sometimes I have trouble with them.

[BCRider]

My selection of canola oil for lubing my guns was based on the info in this thread that is linked in the BP Essetials thread stickied at the top of this forums listings. I certainly would never have thought to use a vegtable based oil otherwise. But this thread and a couple of other mentions about the issue of petroleum oil and black powder mixing to form a tarry like deposit that is difficult to clean showed up a couple of times when I was looking around. Makes me wonder if Bore Butter isn't just margerine and Crisco mixed together.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=223515

Gat goes on in no uncertain terms about using vegtable based lubes and not using petroleum products. This was all based on avoiding hard to clean buildups when the powder residue mixes with the oil or greases. Now granted I only shot the guns once but I did use a healthy drop of canola on the nose of each ball to seal the chamber against any cross fire. This oil obviously got pushed along the barrel and mixed with the residue. The result was a soft easy to clean away goo. Gotta like that!

So this little experiment certainly isn't about finding something that lubes and protects better than Break Free but rather to find something vegtable based that protects as well as Break Free or at least well enough to protect our toys between sessions that may be a month or more apart. For longer term storage I'd give the guns a good cleaning to remove the canola and slop them down with a good petroleum based oil that is well known for it's long term protection. Then later on I'd clean that away and re-lube with Canola prior to shooting if it proves to be a good short to medium term oil.

Now I suppose the other option would be to use petroleum oils to see just what sort of mess it really does leave when mixed with the BP residue. But if it's as bad as they say I'd rather not do that.

[mykeal]

I'm utterly mystified by your desire to determine if vegetable oils are somehow superior to mineral oils. Both will work just fine. The only disadvantage to the vegetable oils is that they will go rancid over a long period of time; but for regular shooting/cleaning/storage over a few days or even months, they're perfectly fine. The mineral oil (or 'cutting' oil) commercial compounds don't do that, and they protect just as well.

[NCWanderer]

I think I'm inclined to agree with BCRider's method. Not that it's any better or worse than the many others I read about here. But with one exception.....for long term, instead of petroleum I'll use my Break Free. I've used it for years on my cartridge guns and I've never found a trace of rust.

I think it's been about 5 or 6 years ago I took my Break Free over to my Dads and cleaned his Win. Mod. 62-A for him because it had become a wall hanger and I didn't want it to get in bad shape. Dad passed last Oct and I inherited that rifle. When I got it home I inspected it good and found no rust......just dust. So a week or so later I cleaned it and now it's in my safe.

[BCRider]

MyKeal, my intrest in this is based solely on the information that indicates it will not form a difficult to remove deposit when mixed with the BP residue during shooting. There is no desire here to try to re-invent the wheel other than to save me some serious work load and possibly a gummed and jammed gun during a busy day of shooting.

I've seen folks that say they swab the barrel and cylinders after EVERY CYLINDER before reloading. To me that is just not acceptable. I've also seen references to open tops gumming the cylinders into immobility after 15 to 20 shots (3 to 4 cylinder reloads). Again I do not find that acceptable although I suppose I could live with this frequency of cleaning to keep things running. But if this was the case I think it would get old really fast and I'd fade into the sunset and sell the dastardly things.

Granted I don't have a lot of history to go on with black powder shooting but if my first day's experience is any test then the info about this in the link I supplied above is spot on. While I did swab out the barrels before going for lunch I did NO other work on the cylinders or the cylinder pin other than removing them to access the barrel for cleaning. Despite this I did not notice any gumming or stiffening of the cylinder indexing for the entire day and 6 cylinder reloads.

Now if I knew I could get all of these benifits and performance using petroleum based oils I'd just dump this whole canola project. And please keep in mind that it's the way the oil acts during a shooting session that is the focus here. As for the benifits of canola vs petroleum gun oils for longer term issues you will not get any counter debate from me. All you say is true from that aspect and I'm in total agreement. It's the references to what the petroleum does during shooting that has me looking into this whole canola issue. That and it's the only vegtable based oil I have in the house at the moment other than the extra virgin pressed Olive Oil. And I KNOW has some water and olive fruit material in the oil so it's not on the list to try.

[Ratdog68]

"Gee, I'm surprised that Ratdog68 hasn't referred to Canola Oil as "Canuck Oil" yet!
You had your chance with BCRider but you let him get away with that one Ratdog68! "

If'n ya take a shot at a feller every time he pokes his head up from cover... purdy soon he don't poke his head up. 'Sides... if'n yaz lets him poke his head up a few times, ya git ta range in on him and git 'im good with a single round. :evil: And... I can't go 'round lettin' folks thinks I don't likes 'em, or sumpin'. :neener:

[BCRider]

Ah... now I see the problem. Since it's a Canadian named oil it only has good properties while on its home turf..... :D

[Ratdog68]

Aboot time ya realized that... eh?

[BCRider]

Aboot time ya realized that... eh?


Ooooo... what part of Canada were you born in Ratdog? :evil:

[mykeal]

BCRider - I think I see my problem. You've lumped mineral oil based cleaners/lubricants into the petroleum oil group. For the purposes of black powder cleaning and shooting, this is not correct. It's not uncommon for people to make that assumption; after all, mineral oils are indeed petroleum based. But, they do NOT react with black powder combustion by-products like the heavier distillates such as regular gun oil or machine oil.

Ballistol, Break Free CLP, Butch's Bore Shine, T/C No. 13, Hoppe's No. 9 PLUS, Bore Butter and other products based on mineral oil (sometimes also known as cutting oil for it's use in metal milling operations) are ok to use in black powder guns without fear of the dreaded 'gunk' formation.

By the way, the references to cylinders binding are usually due to the lack of use of any lubricant; bp combustion by-product fouling will result in interference with revolver cylinder operation if no lubricants are used. This is often solved by the use of lubed felt wads between the powder and ball, although using a good lubricant (vegetable or mineral) oil on the arbor after cleaning and intermittently during a range session is often effective as well.

[sltm1]

Try putting some Winchester Breech Grease on the arbor, also check your cylinder gap, excess there will gum up any gun's mechanisim! By the way, I went to BP shooting about 15 yrs ago and stuck with Hoppes Gun Oil for the innerds and rust retardant in the bbl and cylinder chambers, never had any problem with shooting, gumming or rusting.

[Ratdog68]

"Ooooo... what part of Canada were you born in Ratdog? "

LOL Nope... Bend, OR gets to claim my origin of hatching.

[BCRider]

Ah... so you go up to put new shingles on the ruff. Up this way "ruff" is my face after a few days of not shaving or what the dog says to me. :D

My Willamette valley twang is a bit off these days. Haven't been down to my model airplane meets there for a couple of years now. Talk about great folks though. It's like I've got extended family down there.

[Ratdog68]

Actually... it'd be "woof". :D

Was acquinted online with a feller from the Alberta area who was into model planes... he used to haunt a Valkyrie forum (motorcycles). Lost track of him a couple of years ago. He could be a hoot when he wanted to... and was pretty good with Photoshop.

[BCRider]

Bringing this one back from the lost pages to report on my rust testing.

It's been well over a week now since I put the three innocent washers out on the porch. The weather has been sunny and dry for the most part but it always gets damp in the night around here. To help things along I kept a spritzer of water by the washers to wet them down whenever I thought of it.

In the first picture we see the victims and on two cases their clothing. Note the avant garde hand painted oil bottle that normally lives in my kitchen. The Break Free enjoys no such appreciative attention since it's there to do a dirty job and not complain.... :D

The second shot was taken just today and is pretty conclusive. The first signs of rust appeared sometime in the last two days. I don't know exactly when it happened since I was out until well after dark both days and didn't think to look at them at 7 in the morning when leaving. Up until this past Saturday they both looked just fine with some browning around the dust or grass particles that had settled on both the oiled washers. The difference today is that the Canola oiled washer has a slight but definite tinge of rust covering a lot of the surface area. The Break Free is just beginning to get the first bloom in a tight border around the dust particles. The second picture doesn't really show this as strongly as it should.

So... Given that on Saturday when I looked they were both fine with only the dust/grass/plant fibers sitting stuck to the oil on both and that it rained lightly overnight on Sunday during the wee hours I'm going to say that it's Break Free as the winner but only by a nose at the finish line. I'm going to leave the washers sit until the rust gets crusty and report again later when there's a significant difference. But as it sits now I am confident that I can trust the canola to protect my babies for the shooting season with no issue. For the winter where I can't shoot for around 4 months I think I'll be lubing them up with a generous winter coating of something based on dead dinosaurs with good rust inhibitors. Then in the spring before the first BP shoot I'll be cleaning and degreasing them in prep for a new slathering of Canola based on the super easy cleanup and lack of tarry residue.

The story isn't over yet but definetly this is a good indicator of the merits of both oils. It turned out to be a lot closer than I thought it may be.

So here's the pictures. As I said above the canola washer is a little more brown than it shows in this shot and there's similarly more bloom for about a 1/32 of an inch around the specks on the BF washer. I just didn't have the patience to play with more than a few angles to try to get the color.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y252/BCRider/Gun%20pictures/Rust_test_1.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y252/BCRider/Gun%20pictures/Rust_test_2.jpg

[NCWanderer]

BCRider, thanks.....interesting report.
Made me wonder if Break Free has canola in it. I checked the label, but it didn't say anything about the ingredients, but I did notice it said it was manufactured for Safariland. I didn't know that. I thought it was originally made for the military. Anyhow I'm going to try canola for short term protection against corrosion and rust.

[BCRider]

I'm sure it doesn't. There's a lot of ways to make and sources for oils of both mineral and vegtable makeup.

The BOTTLE you were looking at may well have been made for Safariland. But it's been my experence that many products are from other sources and are just re-packaged under someone's name. The source of the material itself generally isn't mentioned.

I'm somewhat surprised that the bare steel washer is still not rusty in some spots. I'm thinking that I may not have sanded off enough of the plating or that some of the plating smeared and is still protecting the steel. To test for this I think I'm going to start up a new test set from some 1/8 x 1 hotrolled flat bar I've got. At least I know that when I grind off the black scale there won't be any chance that there will be any sort of residual protection. And just to make it further interesting I think I'll try polishing and blueing part of each to see this working on surfaces that are more similar to our guns.

[NCWanderer]

BC, have you thought of instead of sanding.....try taking a light cut off of the washer? Actually your test has peaked my interest to the point that I'm thinking of doing a little test of my own. Not that I don't trust you or your method.....I just like doing things like that.:) I don't have any canola yet, but I may try comparing 1 or 2 other products I have on hand. Besides you've already proved canola's effectiveness.

[BCRider]

I may just do that but it would need to be something other than the washer since it's pretty tough to hold the thin washer well enough for a cut. I'll have to degrease after since the milling machine needs some cutting fluid but that's easily done.

For the small cost I'll go buy a bottle of Crisco oil as well. And isn't sunflower oil another one that is recomended for cooking? I'm concentrating so far on oils used for cooking because we don't want one that will tar up or otherwise polymerize under heat and flame.

[NCWanderer]

Hey, you can face them off in your lathe if your chuck is small enough......mine is.:neener: Just faced off several. I was careful not to touch them with my hand when I removed them from the chuck. I'm thinking about comparing olive oil, Crisco, Hoppes#9 and Break Free, since that's what I have on hand. I do have some Browning Gun oil, but I expect that it is petroleum based.

[Ginormous]

These are going to be really cool tests. I'll be watching for sure.

[BCRider]

I can actually face them off but I'll have to leave a bit of a rim on them or risk running the cutter into the jaws

Looking up stir fry oils I'm seeing some interesting options. The oil has to have a high smoke point to avoid a bitter taste. The bitter taste suggests that it's altering the makeup due to the heat. Such a change may have some impact on our use. The hot options (sorry :D) seem to be Canola, regular olive oil (not extra virgin), peanut and grapeseed (as in from the seeds of grapes following the pressing for making wine). Corn, soybean and coconut oils also got honorable mention.

I hadn't thought about the peanut oil option.

Another test that occurs to me. Vegtable based oils can often oxidize to a sticky format over time. I think I'm going to also put dabs of each oil onto something and expose them to the light from a 60 watt incandescent light to get both the light and heat and see which undergoes a change soonest.

Off to the market now for some Crisco and peanut oil.....

[reverendfranz]

I think peanut oil would just make me hungry for chinese food everytime i went shooting.

[BCRider]

Well don't be topping up the fill with oat bran or cream of wheat then or you'll never stay on the diet..... :D

[NCWanderer]

I was browsing on Brownells and found results of a test of several products. While none of them were vegetable based, and this may not be of interest to some of you, I found the results interesting. Break Free didn't do so well. And I was surprised at WD-40's results. While it doesn't appear to be the best, it did quiet well. The ones that did the best seem to have some issues of being difficult to apply or remove. This would no doubt be fine for protection during extended storage, but in my opinion, it could be aggravating for someone who shoots once a week or even once a month. Here's the link if anyone would like to see the results.

www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=10700/guntechdetail/Gun_Cleaning_Clinic__Knowing_the_Limits_of_Rust_Preventatives

[reverendfranz]

Nice find, and also a good reminder why you shouldn't leave your guns on your picnic table in the back yard for 72 hours...

Break Free:http://www.brownells.com/UserDocs/Miscellaneous/wb0704D-Before.jpg

[BCRider]

That link to the Brownells testing sure does stir up some serious doubts on some products that I think we all take for granted. The WD result doesn't surprise me. Or at least it surprises me that it did THAT well. While I have a fair degree of respect for it I would not have expected it to do this well compared to those others. Similarly the motor oil sure didn't hold up well which I would have thought it would.

Some more news on the Canola front. We had 3 days of cloud, intermittent showers as well as a couple of passing thunder squals that dumped buckets for a short time here and there. I looked at the washers last night and took a picture for you just now.

On the left is the Break Free. Note the obvious rust blooms. On the right is the Canola. The odd brown hue that I thought was the first sign of rust has not gotten any worse at all. In looking at it closely in the sunlight I'm now thinking that it's the heat and light that has "dried" the oil. The brown bits on the Canola washer is not rust but rather some bits of grass, moss or other stuff that tends to blow around any old yard that stuck to the oil. Touching both washers does not leave any sign at all of oil on my finger that I could see readily. On the Canola side trying to very lightly wipe away the bits of grass or moss showed that they are actually now stuck down. So that seems to support the idea that the brownish hue to the oil is due to the sun and heat having dried it. It may well be that fact that it got sun dried that allowed it to protect the washer better from the recent rains. Still not something I'd like to see happen to my guns in the long term though.... :D Thanks to the rain it would appear that we're down to the most minimal of film on the washers where I actually started with a nice wet but not puddle thick coating.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y252/BCRider/Gun%20pictures/Rust_test_3.jpg

The idea of the Canola "drying" or thickening in the sun worries me a little for the longer term aspects. However it's been around a month and a quick check of the guns lubed with Canola shows me that the oil in the darkness and coolness of the gun safe is still as liquid as it was first coming out of the bottle. Over a year or more I have no doubt that it would turn gummy and sticky since there's some signs of that on the bottle that lives in the kitchen. But then again the idea of the use of the Canola is short term use during the active shooting season where it avoids the need to clean away storage oil that may turn tarry in favour of the Canola which so far for me seems to ensure that the powder forms at worst a soft grease like and easily cleaned deposit in combination with the BP residue.

I'd heard lots of great stuff about the Boeshield so I'm not surprised at the results of that. But I'd also heard that it was not that easy to remove. Apparently it makes a good internal rust resistant coating for high quality steel bicycle frames.

[arcticap]

Notice that the description for Eezox Gun Care includes black powder guns.

http://www.eezox.com/gun-care.html

EEZOX® weighs 10.42 pounds per gallon - squirt or spray EEZOX® into a container of water and it will sink to the bottom. This density prevents water from penetrating the thin layer of EEZOX® and from reacting with the metal to form rust. Because of the hydrocarbon oil content of other products, they will "float" on water. Therefore, water penetrates this oil layer and rests on the metal surface. The water then reacts with oxygen and the metal surface to form rust.

Our research clearly shows over 75% of gun owners are not satisfied with gun care products presently being used. Compare this to the 98.7% of EEZOX® users who are greatly satisfied.

http://www.eezox.info/truth.html

[NCWanderer]

I'm not sure what to use now.:confused: Canola looks promising for the short term. And I guess for the long term, in spite of the tests, I'm going to be forced to use Break Free, because I have 2 cans of the stuff. :D And it did protect Dad's old Winchester which I cleaned for him and it hung on the wall for about 6 years until I brought it home with me. But I will check it regularly since I've found it has collectors value now. After I've used it all I may decide on something else. I'm going to be watching the results of these tests closely. And as reverendfranz pointed out, I now know it's not good to leave your guns out on the picnic table.:D

[NCWanderer]

I checked that link furnished by articap about Eezox. It sounds like it's good stuff.....but is it? Has anyone here tried it? I'm becoming somewhat skeptical of some of these products.

[NCWanderer]

Hey I found this. :confused::banghead:

www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=316555

[BCRider]

Well, I can attest to the CLP as a lube. On my CZ semi I was getting an annoying amount of jams and FTE's even with it newly cleaned and oiled. At first I thought it was my shift from 115gn bullets to 124gn because the jams seemed to be due to the slide not coming back far enough to clear and throw the casings. Then I remembered that I had used air tool oil to lube the gun since it was handy to where I had cleaned it. That night after the the first of two back to back IPSC club match days where I had all my jams I cleaned it again and lubed with BF CLP. No jams the next day at all despite a mix of 115 and 124 ammo. It was a club match with nothing on the line and it was only my second day of shooting IPSC style so I didn't mind playing with the ammo. In fact I haven't cleaned it since that time and have put perhaps another 100 or so rounds through it and it's still working a treat.

So there's no doubt in my mind that CLP is a darn decent lube from the lubricity standpoint. The Eezox sounds like good stuff for the off season longer term storage lube though.