Point shooting w/ rifle


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stubbicatt
June 11, 2009, 11:50 AM
Guess the server didn't accept my posting.

Try again.

Yesterday I received instruction from a credible fellow on point shooting of a rifle for situations where one is under attack. The rationale is that when in such an unenviable situation, adrenaline and fear and such will conspire to keep one's attention on the threat. One will not be looking at the sights.

So, in a standing position, lift the rifle to your face as you would when using the sights. But don't look at the sights. Focus on the target. Use the supporting hand index finger to point at the threat and fire at it.

I'm surely not good at this technique yet, but the rationale behind it seemed sound, and the instructor had impeccable credentials, having "been there, done that" himself.

Dude was incredible with this technique. At relatively short range, perhaps 30 yards or so, he was shooting doubles on pepper poppers that were touching one another, or nearly so, with his M1A, while staring at the target, not the sights.

Instructor explained that out to about 100 yards or so, this will work just fine, if you practice. He indicated that at greater distances one needs the sights.

What do you all think of this technique for a combat sort of scenario?

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Art Eatman
June 11, 2009, 01:11 PM
I read of some training at Fort Benning, back in the Vietnam era, where guys were using BB guns from the hip. They got to where they could hit tossed aspirin.

In IPSC pistol, I only saw the front sight. Did pretty good with "Front sight, press."

So, I guess that if someone practices some style, he'll become competent. It takes time and ammo, though, which isn't always available to the military. As usual, "Whatever works is good." Anything which helps offset the negative effects of an adrenalin rush ought be good.

Hard to practice real-world combat, though. :)

starkadder
June 11, 2009, 01:29 PM
His technique does work but it takes a lot of practice to get it down"pat", I actually use a variation of this when practicing close quarters combat pistol shooting. By raising the thumb of your supporting hand to leave a "window" between it and the slide of the weapon.
I grew up deer hunting with dogs so you were usually shooting at a very fast moving target in wooded terrain, my father taught us to use the "front sight method", back in the day when most rifles came with a front sight hood he tought us to use only the front sight in a similar fashion to a modern scout scope.
This works quite well and with practice you can hit within a 12" area up to fifty yards, most modern military style rifles have either a front sight hood or protective ears that gives you a better reference area that just a sight post.
But just as all other shooting techniques it takes practice, practice, practice.


This is this! It's not something else, it's this!

Don't pull it if you don't plan to use it, and don't use it if you don't plan to kill!

ALWAYS REMEMBER OUR MEN AND WOMEN OVER THERE.

Vern Humphrey
June 11, 2009, 01:49 PM
I read of some training at Fort Benning, back in the Vietnam era, where guys were using BB guns from the hip. They got to where they could hit tossed aspirin.
Lucky McDaniels -- The Daisy company actually put out a kit with a Daisy air gun for that purpose.

It's really a bad idea, since the British proved (when he demonstrated the concept to them) that they could outshoot him using ghost-ring peeps. In addition, it teaches troops not to use the sights -- and that's training they don't need.

Added -- as my memory comes back. McDaniel called his technique "quick kill." The Daisy company marketed it's air gun kit under the name "quick skill."

usmc1371
June 11, 2009, 01:58 PM
in close range drills with the M16 I always use the 0-2 (big hole) rear sight and look at the front sight like I would if I were shooting my glock in ipsc. Inside 50 yds the rear sight didn't make any real dif as long as face was on stock and front sight is on target the rounds go where you want them. The guys who shot a lot of birds and clays also did very well with this technique.

stubbicatt
June 12, 2009, 08:27 PM
So. Reading here, the point shoot technique is OK if practiced a whole lot. There are better techniques, such as using the front sight as one would a shotgun front bead.

Well. It was exciting to me to see what a person could do if properly trained and practiced, that person being the instructor... not me! ;)

Thanks guys for the followup.

.38 Special
June 12, 2009, 08:31 PM
I dunno. My experience has been that with properly fitting rifle, you throw it up to your shoulder with your eyes closed and when you open your eyes you are looking directly through the scope. So assuming you have time to bring the rifle to your shoulder, I do not see how it is any faster to ignore the sights that are already in front of your eye anyway.

I am mostly a sixgunner though, so my experience may not be valid.

HB
June 12, 2009, 10:00 PM
You don't even need a rear sight if your cheek weld is consistent... unfortunately this is not the case!

Al Thompson
June 12, 2009, 10:04 PM
Agree with HB. Put your nose on the charging handle if your running an AR. :)

JohnBT
June 12, 2009, 10:40 PM
"as one would a shotgun front bead"

Forget the bead, it's for keeping the gun from falling over when you prop it against a tree. Point the gun instead.

Page 15 of Shotgunning: The Art and the Science(1977) by Bob Brister. He started a novice off with his sightless bb gun and she quickly progressed to breaking clays.


http://books.google.com/books?id=sUH9auGGtBwC&dq=Shotgunning:+The+Art+and+Science&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=fks7eVhkLI&sig=ti72RWvBM4qeRIH2PR7U01nuYNg&hl=en&ei=ywAzSqKzMYSGtge46Jj5Dg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4

cipher
June 12, 2009, 11:56 PM
I wouldn't draw such a distinction between point shooting and flashing a front sight picture. Its more or less the same concept except when you get to the point that you don't really register the sight post consciously it should be referred to as "point shooting".

Assuming you're not shooting from the hip, or something like that.

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