9mm Carbine, what's out there?


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dscottw88
June 11, 2009, 09:43 PM
I've played with the idea of getting a 9mm AR, but I've been told they are difficult to keep running. I still want some sort of 9mm carbine though. What are my options? The only other two I can think of is either the CX4 Storm, which seems a bit pricey. And the hi-point, which (dont ask) I refuse to pick up. So what else is out there that I'm not aware of?

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gvnwst
June 11, 2009, 09:49 PM
How about a kel-tec Sub2000?
http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/sub2000.htm

wrs840
June 11, 2009, 09:50 PM
Marlin Camp 9.

http://www.gunblast.com/Marlin-Camp9.htm

Out of production, but pretty cool, if you happen to run across one...

Les

Whitman31
June 11, 2009, 09:51 PM
+1 for the Sub2000

dscottw88
June 11, 2009, 09:57 PM
Hmm... I'm thinking more along the lines of AR, and less along the lines of Sporting Rifle. Thanks for the input so far though.

clemsonu0219
June 11, 2009, 10:01 PM
LOVE my kel tec sub 2000, great and accurate gun.

gimlet1/21
June 11, 2009, 10:32 PM
+2,3,&4 Sub 2000 Kel-Tec

benzy2
June 11, 2009, 10:36 PM
A 9mm AR? You want a 9mm AR but you say you don't. Just buy a 9mm AR and be done with it.

xstuntman
June 11, 2009, 10:54 PM
I've got a Sub 2000 and my buddies always want me to bring it along to the range. Never has malfunctioned although its gonna cover lefties (like me) in hot brass. X

RockyMtnTactical
June 11, 2009, 10:56 PM
How about a kel-tec Sub2000?
http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/sub2000.htm

For a 9mm carbine this may be the way to go. Inexpensive and takes Glock mags (a plus for me).

Nhsport
June 11, 2009, 10:59 PM
In the AR world lots of folks badmouth the Olyinpic Arms guns but I love my
9mm upper. Bought it used (upper only) and it has never skipped a beat. Any old cheep ammo including some pretty light reloads.

I know several guys who shoot in a pistol caliber carbine match and the olyinpic guns always run.

I believe that If I were to do it again I would order the complete gun with the special lower that takes standard Glock mags.Plentiful,reasonable priced and you can have the 33 rd for blasting and a short 10 rounder for bench or prone and still use them in your glock pistol. Easy to load also.If you special order from Oly they will build on a flatop also.

The weak link in many of the 9mm carbines is the magazines for one or more reasons but the Glock/Oly combo has got that licked

briansmithwins
June 11, 2009, 11:30 PM
Of the 9mmP PCCs (Pistol Caliber Carbines) the Beretta works pretty good. I'm using a semi-auto Uzi which works fine as long as it's fed hotter ammo as it short strokes on WWB and Blazer. The other downside to the Uzi is that optic mounting options are minimal.

Of the 9mmP ARs the Olympic PCC that uses Glock mags seem to work best of the ones I've seen. We have a couple of local matches where PCCs are required due to range safety considerations. BSW

stormspotter
June 12, 2009, 12:56 AM
A few months ago I found a Ruger PC9 well worth the money, 4 bills, and haven't looked back. I put a Bushnell Trophy 1X32 on it and am very happy with this set up. It will shoot Hornady 115 gr. XTP's into less than an inch at 25 yards. The nice thing is that the Hornady XTP's and WWB 115 gr. 9's have the same POI.

I know, bolt action guys will think that is terrible but if I want to shoot into less than an inch at 100 yards, I'll use my tikke T3.

The only bad thing is that here lately I've seen them go in the upper $500 to lower $600 range.

kwelz
June 12, 2009, 01:11 AM
Whomever told you that 9MM ARs are hard to keep running either A: had a crappy one or B: didn't know what they were doing. Get either a Colt or a Rock River and you will be fine. Avoid Oly, etc.

Both use Uzi Mags with minor modifications and will take just about any accessory you can put on a normal AR.

I also like the Baretta, but it is getting up into AR price territory.

Camp 9, Sub 2000, and PC9 seem to have a nice following but I don't have any personal experience with them so I can't say one way or another

Gelgoog
June 12, 2009, 01:37 AM
9mm carbine = UZI....because just like the song...."its simply the best!...better then all the rest"

although I wouldnt be opposed to an SBR AR15. The only AR 9mm I have ever shot was one in full auto.

jerkface11
June 12, 2009, 01:49 AM
Whomever told you that 9MM ARs are hard to keep running either A: had a crappy one or B: didn't know what they were doing. Get either a Colt or a Rock River and you will be fine. Avoid Oly

Ignore that and get the Oly that takes Glock mags. I love mine just wish someone had some ammo for it.

rfurtkamp
June 12, 2009, 01:56 AM
Can get yourself MP5/HK94 semis and NFA stuff as well if you want. They're expensive but well, if you want one you want one.

http://media.furtkamp.com/mp5kpdw-left.jpg

I love mine.

ArfinGreebly
June 12, 2009, 03:46 AM
I have the Beretta CX4 Storm in 9mm. A very brisk handling close quarters carbine.

And a Marlin Camp 9. Sweetest 50 yard gun I own.

A friend of mine in Reno bought a Hi Point 995 carbine, stuck a red dot on aftermarket stocks, and was hitting cans out past 150 yards.

Ruger makes (or did, at least) the PC-9, which is a solid performer.

I really wish they'd bring back the Marlin Camp 9.

sarduy
June 12, 2009, 03:58 AM
Kel-Tec Sub-2000

http://inlinethumb19.webshots.com/7954/2233953930095461090S425x425Q85.jpg (http://news.webshots.com/photo/2233953930095461090WeQoRw)

Hi-Point 995

http://inlinethumb22.webshots.com/30677/2962691780095461090S425x425Q85.jpg (http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2962691780095461090cdDPMD)

Troy308
June 12, 2009, 05:02 AM
Ruger PC9,Sterling 9mm Sporter Rifle,LUSA 9 mm carbine

dscottw88
June 12, 2009, 06:07 AM
Whomever told you that 9MM ARs are hard to keep running either A: had a crappy one or B: didn't know what they were doing. Get either a Colt or a Rock River and you will be fine. Avoid Oly, etc.

Thats funny, reading on AR15.com I got the exact opposite impression. That colt/RR take some tinkering to get working properly, but that the Oly models work out of the box.

wnycollector
June 12, 2009, 06:57 AM
Anotther BIG +1 for the sub2k. I own the .40 cal flavor and it is wonderfully accurate out to 100 yards. I am keeping my eyes open for a 9mm version that takes S&W mags.

Walkalong
June 12, 2009, 08:48 AM
I sold my CX4 to help pay for a RRA AR in 9MM. Love it. I still have my sub 2000 in 9MM. The CX4 was a great little gun, just not my style I guess.

bikerdoc
June 12, 2009, 08:58 AM
A friend of mine in Reno bought a Hi Point 995 carbine, stuck a red dot on aftermarket stocks, and was hitting cans out past 150 yards.


Bought mine on a whim 5 years ago. Put a scope on it and 100 yd shots get boring after a while, it is that good. BTW never any failure of any kind.

Got a hard time from some range commando a few years ago bout how I should know better than to buy an ugly pos like that.

I had $37.00 dollars in my pocket. I said you pick the target. I went home with $74.00:evil:

RX-178
June 12, 2009, 09:05 AM
Sub-2000 owner here. You can't use aluminum cased rounds (or at least REALLY REALLY shouldn't! It's in the manual!), but other than that, I like it.

Mine has been a little picky with magazines and ammo (It doesn't like two of my 33 rounders, or PMC 115gr FMJ in general), but there aren't any problems with the weapon itself.

Now, unless you're shorter than 5'5", you're probably going to want the stock extension from Kel-Tec. This thing comes out of the box with a REALLY short length of pull.

I'm satisfied with my Sub-2000, enough so that it'll probably be my only 9mm carbine for the near future.

Marlin 45 carbine
June 12, 2009, 09:07 AM
what ever you decide on it will make a believer out of you that the pistol caliber carbine is an effective defensive platform specially with enhanced sights installed. I have the Marlin Camp 9mm and with good ammo it's a tack driver useing the Tru Glo 2X Dot sight.
I was at the range couple trips back and a fella showed up with a Kel Tec 9mm for a cheap gun it sure shot good. first he had shot it and was bouncing cans every shot at 50 yds no problem factory sights after sighting in on paper. lifetime warranty too transfers to 2nd owner - he said.

kanook
June 12, 2009, 09:09 AM
if you can find one, the Weaver Arms Nighthawk

ChronoCube
June 12, 2009, 09:27 AM
+1 for Hi Point 995. The factory stock works fine if you can tolerate the ugliness. I get 3-4 MOA with iron sights.

Storm
June 12, 2009, 10:54 AM
I think it's hard to beat the UZI (shown with dummy short barrel)
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/4551/uzi2.jpg

If you'd consider a .45 you could also have the incredibly sweet shooting and quiet USC 45.
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/5860/hkusc.jpg

EAJ
June 12, 2009, 10:56 AM
I've been very happy with my Beretta CX4 Storm and Bushmaster Carbon 15 9MM Carbine's.

http://fishkind.com/collection/images/cx4_26.jpg

http://fishkind.com/collection/images/bush_08.jpg

kwelz
June 12, 2009, 01:18 PM
Thats funny, reading on AR15.com I got the exact opposite impression. That colt/RR take some tinkering to get working properly, but that the Oly models work out of the box.

I always take anything said on ARF.com with a whole shaker of salt. I can only go by my experiences and the experience of people I have known/dealt with.

And except for some a couple bad magazines I have not seen any problems out of the above style 9mm Carbines. Mind you mine only has about 800 rounds through it so I have not exactly torture tested it yet. However some of the others I have dealt with had thousands of rounds through them.

The Olys I have seen had extraction and feeding problems and one would not set off a single round because the hammer was so out of spec it would not contact the firing pin.

gga357
June 12, 2009, 01:52 PM
Try the Calico. 50 or 100 round mags. Take a look at the video.
http://calicolightweaponsystems.com/home/

dscottw88
June 12, 2009, 03:39 PM
The USC seems ridiculously priced.

MP5 clones are also pricey, and take a good amount of attention (I Hear) to get running properly unless you get an authentic HK94, which again is ridulously priced.

I like the CX4, but for $600-$700 I can get a 9mm AR. And I just can't live with myself buying a hi-point.

I like the compatibility of the glock magazines seeing as I already have a 9mm Glock. So Maybe the Keltec S2000 would be a good choice despite how ugly it is.

I always take anything said on ARF.com with a whole shaker of salt. I can only go by my experiences and the experience of people I have known/dealt with.

Yeah I guess I should know by now that not eerything out there is gospel.

zoom6zoom
June 12, 2009, 03:43 PM
Sterling!
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g180/zoom6zoom/gun%20stuff/Collection/sterling.jpg

benzy2
June 12, 2009, 03:45 PM
As much as the hi-point is the ugly duckling of the group it is darn inexpensive and all of them I have used have worked great. I haven't seen one failure with them and they were certainly accurate enough. For the money they are the best buy though still but ugly. I couldn't bring myself to buy one because of how they looked but a friend bought one and since then I have changed my mind. Nice rifles for the money. Hard to beat on a budget. Not the best rifle out there but I have yet to run into any sort of issue outside of the looks.

kwelz
June 12, 2009, 04:53 PM
Actually Zoom has a good point. I handled one of these Sterlings the other day. I think they are a little overpriced but they seem pretty neat. May be worth considering.

Hostile Amish
June 12, 2009, 05:03 PM
CX4.

21bubba
June 12, 2009, 05:08 PM
Camp9 +cheap red dot + 115 jhp = dead coyote at fifty yards.

Col. Plink
June 12, 2009, 06:29 PM
I like the looks of the Kel-Tec .40carbine myself.

For 9mm's, you can always go with something that may already fit a pistol you have: Mech Tech makes CCU's (carbine conversion units) that fit Glock, 1911 (and soon Springfield XD) lowers in 9mm, .40, .45acp, and .460Rowland.

The Giant Skunk
June 12, 2009, 09:40 PM
1+ for the CX4. I bought mine mainly because I am a lefty and have tired of brass and powder blowback in the face from right handed long guns. The CX4 can be easily switched to eject from the left. A great shooting little carbine that reliably feeds every kind of ammo I have put through it. My friends all love it and several have purchased them after trying mine. The only drawback is that the rear sight apeture is a little small. However you can put any number of optics on it. Very nice carbine.

X-Rap
June 12, 2009, 11:21 PM
The compatability with the Glock mags sold me on the Sub 2000. After having 3 of them and finding little fault I am a true believer.

Shweboner
June 13, 2009, 07:07 AM
The USC is a joke because, if I recall, you can only get 10rnd mags for it.

The HiPoint 995 is the only HiPoint worth owning and I bought one used and put 700 rounds through it without cleaning, never a problem.

The CX4 is the only way to go... I love mine, if I could carry it around all day... I would. Also if you have a Beretta 92 or a PX4 or a Cougar, you can have your CX4 share magazines.

The Sub 2000 can be had in Glock/S&W/Beretta mag versions I believe. and are pretty reliable.

Storm
June 13, 2009, 10:36 AM
The USC is a joke because, if I recall, you can only get 10rnd mags for it.

Incorrect. A 20 round mag is available.

lykoris
June 13, 2009, 10:44 AM
or Italian WW2 beretta 38A

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_38A

lykoris
June 13, 2009, 10:46 AM
this one has a 40 round mag in it

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/632/186011beretta38.jpg (http://img196.imageshack.us/i/186011beretta38.jpg/)

lykoris
June 13, 2009, 11:00 AM
beretta M12 looks neat also 10/20/30/40 round mag

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2954/800pxberettam12s.jpg (http://img15.imageshack.us/i/800pxberettam12s.jpg/)


taken from

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_M12

zoom6zoom
June 13, 2009, 11:12 AM
The Sterling shown is a real factory gun, not one of the current repro's. But I'm thinking of getting one of the cheaper ones also.

Grey Morel
June 13, 2009, 12:03 PM
The only PCC I would touch is a Beretta Storm. They have the benefit of being modular; you can get magwell adapters for 1/2 dozen different pistols.

dscottw88
June 13, 2009, 01:50 PM
The largest size mag I have sen for the CX4 is a 20rd. Anyone know of larger mags for the 92 series?

rondog
June 13, 2009, 02:01 PM
Too bad you're such a snob about the High-Points, you're just depriving yourself of a lot of fun for an affordable price. You could use the savings to buy more ammo. I have a 995 and a 4095, and they're a supreme HOOT to go plinking with!

But, if you're just hellbent on spending 3x the money for tacticool....

Storm
June 13, 2009, 02:42 PM
The USC seems ridiculously priced.

Higher priced? Yes. Riduculously priced? No, especially not if you've spent a good amount of time behind one and have been able to appreciate a very smooth, accurate, and quiet weapon. The CX4 is a fine weapon. I owned one. But, to my liking, it isn't in the same league as the USC.

theotherwaldo
June 13, 2009, 05:20 PM
Another vote for the 995. Cheap, handy, accurate, and born to be Bubbafied. I'm in the process of designing a wood stock for mine, setting it up to take Glock 17 magazines. Looks pretty straight-forward to me.

Just gotta sharpen up my draw knife and spoke shave... .

dscottw88
June 13, 2009, 07:23 PM
If the hi-point took glock mags i'd be sold.

Edit: i've looked around on the internet, the largest I have found are 15rd magazines for the hi-point.

jon_in_wv
June 13, 2009, 07:26 PM
+1 on that. What about the Mech Tech Carbines made on the Glock receiver? They are a bit expensive but they are highly customizable and would allow the use of Glock mags. If you already have a Glock it wouldn't be that expensive. About a 100-150 more than a HiPoint.

theotherwaldo
June 14, 2009, 05:54 PM
From what I can see, the mechanism of the 995 is unitized to the point where I can just build additional stocks to fit almost any magazine that fits the bolt and ramp geometry of the Hi-Point.
Cool.

Now I have the excuse that I needed to buy a Glock 17... .

JDGray
June 14, 2009, 06:13 PM
I've been more than pleased with the performance of my RRA 9mm. If you stay with what RRA sends with the rifle, it will run just fine. After market mags may give you issues, especially if the mag hold open types are used, but you can tweek them to work. Paid 869.00 delivered for mine last August, check out AR15Sales.com, for the best price. Good luck not waiting:(

verdun59
June 14, 2009, 06:44 PM
My HP 995 has never failed me and they are great to shoot. No much to look at, but it's not a date or one's wife. Great carbine for the money. Like most of my stuff if it didn't, work somebody else would be owning it.

jon_in_wv
June 22, 2009, 08:04 PM
I put money down today on a 995 Hipoint. Most all of the 9mm carbines are just basic blowback mechanisms. I can't see spend more than what I spent on that as long as the HP works. With an ATI stock it looks and handles pretty good. I also like the sights on it and aftermarket parts are pretty widely available. The 10 round mags seem to be the only ones that work with it but a mag change is a quick easy thing wtih a little practice. If they came with 15-30 rounds mags would be great but I'll change mags a little more often to save myself the cost of the others.

Yoda
June 22, 2009, 11:54 PM
I guess the best way to describe it is an FN-FAL lower topped off with a MAC upper and a mix of FAL and AR furniture, eating 9mm from a Finnish 71-round Suomi drum magazine.

I used to have one, and using a bipod, it was an extremely comfortable toy. Shooting freehand was more like an isometeric exercise. It weighed a ton.

Here's a link to a .pdf article on the gun:
http://www.smallarmsreview.com/pdf/mpa971carbine.pdf


Here's a photo of someone else's gun, which is similar to what I had:

100154

Why did I get rid of it? It took up a lot of space in the safe, loading the drums were a pain, but still... It's one of those that I instantly regreted getting rid of. It would really, really upset a certain lady I work with!

- - - Yoda

dscottw88
June 23, 2009, 05:47 AM
Ever consider an MPA-971?

Looks pricey, and for something that fulfills such a small roll in my arsenal I dont feel like dropping more than around $300.

In case anyone is wondering, I'm leaning heavily towards the Kel-Tec Sub2000. I like the compatibility with my 9mm glock, and I think its actually pretty neat how it folds in half.

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