[bigalexe]

Ok since ive gotten into shooting ive discovered one thing that really annoys me: stuff is defined by a bunch of different units that mostly are out of use except for in the shooting sports. Now why cant we just use 1 measure?

Lets look at a box of shotshells:
2 3/4 long, 3 dr., #7 shot, Target Load

Ok so everyone can understand what 2 3/4" is, but what about the rest? The box says target load so that tells us that this should be good for target shooting. 3 DR, what is DR? Well as it turns out its an obscure measure equal to 1/8 oz. or 60 grains, whats a grain anyway?

I think you get where im going, why all the different units? cant we just say 3/8oz. powder, and be consistent, also maybe knock the TARGET LOAD off the box since most people are looking for a number shot and should know what they need.

Sorry if this is just a rant, its just so annoying that its so complicated.

[oneounceload]

you need to do a google search for dram equivalent.....maybe you need to stop looking at shotshells like rifle ammunition

DE goes back to black powder days....2-3/4 DE is soft shooting, about 1150 fps or so......3 DE is about 1200 fps or so....3-1/4 is about 1280 fps or so......there are variances

#7 is the size of the shot.....pretty basic stuff

2-3/4" is the size of the fired shell so you know what the chamber size is

none of this is hard to understand or hard to find, so what exactly is your question?

[Dimis]

i think it was more of a rant but i do partialy agree with him
using old black powder terms for new gunpowder does seem a bit antiquated and we should give it a new measure
i myself at one point had to research this too because dram didnt make any sense to me
and also there should be no shell marked Dram Equivalent:Maximum
seriously they should have a number no matter what because i dont like playing guesswork with "whats federals maximum vs. remingtons maximum?"
there really should be a simpler standardized way to describe what type of shot shells your buying

oh and since were griping about ammo i think ALL ammo should be manditorily marked with its velocity i.e. 1250 FPS @ muzzle with 4 inch barrel

[-v-]

I seriously don't see the issue here. The ammo is loaded with 1 1/4 oz of #7 shot, is 2 3/4" long (since shotguns range from 2 3/4" chamber up to a 3.5" chamber, and a 3.5" shell in a 2 3/4" chamber would be all kinds of baaaad), and rated at 3 Dram-equiv, which I frankly couldn't care less about. But, I agree, would be nice if they said "X FPS from 26" test bbl." instead of "3 dram equivalent." Its also labeled target/small fowl, since that's what its effective for.

When you buy a box of pistol or rifle ammo, its marked the same way. Caliber, Velocity, What it is intended for (hunting, SD, target, etc.), its velocity, and its drop at various ranges. Same stuff.

Its the same as with anything else that's been around for a while. Once a name and unit(s) of measurement is there, it tends to stick there. Guns, Horses, Medicine, Music, you name it.

[bensdad]

Horses by the hand, corn by the bushel, oil by the barrel, milk by the pound, etc. It made sense at one time, and they haven't felt the need to change.

[RandKL]

Cant we just say 3/8oz. powder

That would work fine if there was ONE basic type of powder. 3/8oz of one powder isn't going to be equal to 3/8oz of another powder, though. You also can't use a standard volume of powder like say, "1/2 teaspoon of powder" because those powders, again, aren't all the same. So you have to use a form of measure or comparison that all powders have in common and that's to say "this amount of X powder is as powerful (will produce the same velocity) as 3 drams of blackpowder....and this other amount of Y powder is just as powerful as X."

But, I agree, would be nice if they said "X FPS.

That's the direction that some ammo manufacturers are going. Some powder makers have dropped the drams equiv measurement altogether.

richard

[xm21]

Max dram eq. is the same no matter who manufactures it.And like RandKL says not all powders are the same.The companies use whatever powders are available which is why the same shell from the same company with the same shot charge can vary in length when from different lots.Some powders take up more or less volume in the shell to achieve the same velocity.

[Virginian]

Quit worrying about the small stuff. If you don't like what's on the boxes, roll your own. But I'd be real, real careful what kind of powder I was using 3/8ths of an ounce of.

[Sauer Grapes]

They should give either give both, or just FPS. IMHO
I just roll my own. Drams equivalent is a stupid measure for todays ammo.

My rant!

[SN13]

1 1/8oz, 3Dram, 2 3/4" #7 1/2".

Packs of 100.

$20 @ Walmart.

Who makes this box of ammo?

[fireman 9731]

Who makes this box of ammo?

Federal and Winchester are the first to come to mind, Remington does also but for a few dollars more. Its a pretty generic skeet/trap/target/light hunting/all purpose load.

[Dimis]

ok i see what your saying about 1/8th oz of powder being different depending on what powder is used but dont you think it would be a simpler solution to just tell us the FPS and Pressures? say 1100FPS with 900PSI (i just made that up so please dont correct me its an exadurated remark as an example only) instead of dram
and what exactly is max equivilent?
is it 3.5 dram?
had a gunshop try to tell me once that the Odin/Winchester military buckshot was loaded to 4 dram equ. (didnt buy it because i didnt trust what he was saying even when i asked what he was talking about)
is there a 4 DE shell?

[RioShooter]

is there a 4 DE shell?

http://www.home-improvement-superstore.com/remington-arms-20632-5rnd-12sb00-buckshot.html

Remington Express Buckshot 3" Magnum 4 DE

[LWYM425]

Milk by the pound?

[.455_Hunter]

Drams equivalent is a stupid measure for todays ammo.

Dram equivalent is one of the few ways you can compare the recoil energy of shotgun shells. Lets say that you want to load your shotgun with tactical reduced recoil buckshot (generally 3 dram), but you also want to practice with that shotgun and not break the bank. Using cheap 3 dram field loads will allow you to practice and get about the same recoil for much less money. Using 3 3/4 dram pheasant loads, or 2 1/2 dram light target loads will not realistically duplicate your duty load.

[Virginian]

Most of your newer waterfowl loads do tell you the weight of shot and the velocity. I found myself last fall pondering the fidderence between 1310 and 1325 and 1360 feet per second, then I caught myself and reverted back to the old "anything over 1225 is fine".

[JohnBT]

"why all the different units?"

Next you'll want to know the secret shotgunner's handshake. :)

Patience grasshoppa.

[bigalexe]

Next you'll want to know the secret shotgunner's handshake.

There's a secret handshake?

[Dimis]

yea but its only 1/4 twist difference between the shotgunners handshake and the old mason handshake its really not that impressive

[yeti]

Milk by the pound?


A pint is a pound the world around.

Yeah, milk is bought from farmers by weight.

[harleydg44]

The only reason I am interested in the dram bs is that I am looking to buy a Bennelli auto loader and the company said not to shoot shells of less than 3 drams so the ejection mechanism will work properly. I load my own 12 ga shells and the bushing for powder throws 17.5 grains of Hi Score 700x powder and 1 1/8oz of # 8 lead shot. Nowhere can I find how to convert this load to drams so I can make sure I am shooting reloads of 3 drams. Yes, I could buy shells that say 3 drams, but I am reloading my own.
Could someone help!

[oneounceload]

3 dram loads typically run 1200 fps. Your loading data source should provide you with that info. From what you posted it should work fine - load some and try them out.

Personally, for targets, I like mine with 7/8 or 1oz of shot running somewhere around 1180fps or 2-3/4 dram - nice and easy on the shoulder

[MisterHappy]

The old measures is, as far as I can tell, part tradition and part backward compatability ( to use a computer term).

Shotshell technologies are over 100 years old..."We fear change"

For your new gun, load up a few of your regular rounds and see if they work! If not, change your load.