Norinco model 97 trenchgun:Is this a good shotgun?


February 2, 2003, 01:25 PM
HOw are these guns? I handeled one yesterday and it seemed well made w/good fit and finish. If it isn't where who makes a good trench shotgun? I really love the look and handling of these type of guns. My brother has a remington 870 but it just dosen't feel right to me the norinco feels great though.

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February 2, 2003, 02:54 PM
I don't know anything particular about Norinco copy but I've handled the Winchester 1897 and it's a nice gun, the some of the cowboy action shooters use them in their competitions. What are you going use it for?

In my opion, I'd stay away from Norinco, not necessarily because of bad quality, but because you're supporting Chinese communists and slave labor that made the gun. I'd personally rather not...

So see if you can find a Winchester 1897, they can be found for reasonable prices.

Dave McCracken
February 2, 2003, 04:17 PM
Besides the political aspects of supporting the last large dictatorship left on Earth....

The Norinco stuff has varied wildly in quality of metal, and warranty work seems to be nonexistent.

The shifting trade and political agreements(China condemned any action by the US against the Taliban, North Korea,etc) mean that supply of spare parts and even new stuff is chancy.

With great US made pump guns available for less than one week's wages, it's not the best idea to go elsewhere.

February 2, 2003, 06:47 PM
If you must buy a '97 trench gun you're either going to spend a bunch of cash or buy the Chinese one. In my experience, the Norinco stuff looks bad, feels bad, smells bad, and is poorly put together. BUT all the ones that I've shot have functioned just fine. I've never had any experience with their shotguns however, just AKs, SKSs, 1911s, etc. And just remember what Bastiat says about global trade: When goods don't cross borders, armies will.

February 2, 2003, 10:09 PM
I can't help you out on the quality of the norinco, but I don't think your going to find a real 97 for reasonable prices. My dad has a 97 (not of the trench variety, 30" or so and full choke) that we both really like. So we both kind of keep an eye out for that sort of stuff. We don't go to a lot of gunshows, or stores, but I have never found one for sale other than on the internet, and he only found one in a pawn shop for $1100. He though it was a hack'd up butcher job but theres a small possibilty it was a trench gun since hes not real into milsurp stuff, or guns of that style. The barrel was "half as long as its sposed to be" an the stock was beat to hell. As much as I like the old boomstick, I can't see spending $1000 on one, to many other guns I could learn to love, or cross off the wishlist for that, could get most of them in multiples for that :D

Supporting china sucks, one gun isn't going to keep the regime going though. Just don't make a habit of it or we'll kick your commie butt onto the first boat over :neener:
It doesn't sound like the quality is there, I'd try to find a different one (from the US) but if thats really what you want, then go for it.

You can also check out mossberg and (new) winchester pump guns if you don't like the 870. There's lots of choices.

February 2, 2003, 10:16 PM
I understand what you guys are saying about supporting the commies. Thats why I asked who else made the trecnh gun besides norinco. Does anyone make a trench gun repro at a decent price?

February 2, 2003, 10:27 PM
I see them (97's, not necessarily trench models) all the time for well under 1000.00 online.
Here is a 97 now...
..but I agree that if the 870 does not float your boat, then you might try one of the other big names. If Winchester is your thing, try the 1300. It gets very good reviews here.
Me, I like the classic wood-stocked 870 with 20" barrel, rifle sights and a factory +3 extension. Perfect, for me.
But I am guessing that you have to have a bayonet lug, right?
I would never buy a Norinco.

February 2, 2003, 10:44 PM
9mm mike I take it when you say you wouldn't buy a norinco its because of its commie roots not the quality of the gun? I know what you mean but I love the trench gun look design and don't have $1,000+ for a winchester. Plus The remingtons and mossbergs don't feel or point right for me. The norinco trench I held seemed built well it had a good deep blue finish and the fit/finish was great to.

Thait ak's or mac 90's and sks rifles are great buys for the money so are thair 1911 pistols.

February 2, 2003, 11:00 PM
I feel your pain............
I too like the looks of those guns and you're right it is an emotional decision for me. I figure that one day, I'll find one of those cool bayonet clamps for an 870 and make my own trench gun.
Good luck,

February 3, 2003, 10:59 AM
The 97s I see in ATL are pretty well clapped out for anywhere near a reasonable price (under $400).
If you get a true trench gun, it will run pretty high ($900 and I couldn't recognize if it were a fake anyway. Could you?

If I were to want a shooter and it had to be a 97 type, I'd look for a nice Norinco. YMMV

Kahr carrier
February 6, 2003, 08:58 AM
I handled a Norinco last weekend they seem well made and will do the old 97 trick:)

Kahr carrier
February 6, 2003, 08:59 AM
The trick being it will SLAM Fire like the original Winchester.;)

February 6, 2003, 12:54 PM
I have 4 of those.

Looks like my tax return might have found a place to be spent!

And I'm under no illusions of supporting a Communist regime, especially when the components inside this very computer, and the majority of other consumer models, come from that place. Never mind what one finds to buy at WalMart these days...:scrutiny:

February 6, 2003, 01:44 PM
Gewehr98: I can see where you are coming from. 99% of our stuff today comes from some totalitarian regime. It's kinda hard to beat on the gun market when our gasoline comes from fun places like Iraq. :what: Should we stop driving, too?

February 6, 2003, 02:20 PM

(Knew why I had you on my buddy list over at TFL!)

February 6, 2003, 06:59 PM
I don't have a choice in computers...when an American made computer hits the market once again, I'll buy it. Meanwhile, my firearm dollars will go to American manufacturers or those in friendly, Western civ nations...

February 6, 2003, 08:48 PM
romulus- You have the choice to buy American computers: start a computer manufacturing firm in the U.S. yourself. Viva la capitalism!

February 6, 2003, 09:23 PM
I done tried that.....
dang thing had all the necessities too, monitor with chinese stuffins busted out and a complete set of posterboard inserts with my expert renditions of the windows icons. 2X4 for beatin it like a rented mule everytime that daggone blue screen of death comes up....No takers, folks just don't want to buy american no more.

I don't always get the choice to buy american, so when it comes up I try to. My wrangler jeans is american, my justin boots is american, my pickem up truck is american, and I got all kinds of other stuff too :D
I won't call ya Red for buyin the norinco....well, I guess I probably will actually ;) but only for fun. If that gun is the gun that meets your criteria its the one to buy.

Sir Galahad
February 6, 2003, 11:59 PM
Most communist made weapons are pretty decent quality shooters, if a little rough around the edges. They can't make a pair of shoes that last more than a couple weeks (at least the ones they make for themselves), but when it comes to weapons, they have pretty good quality. If the shotgun is what's calling to you, buy it and don't look back. Otherwise, you'll buy something you don't like AND THEN buy that Norinco trench later anyway when you just can't cotton to the first gun you bought. Lots of stuff that says "Made In USA" has Chinese-made internal parts, by the way. I know this because the manufacturer I work for does that. Says "Made In USA" on the box and most of the parts are made in China BUT the product is assembled in the U.S. so it can say "Made" in USA.

So buy you that Norinco. Lots of people are shooting them and liking them but not admitting it.

Kahr carrier
February 8, 2003, 07:00 AM
Those 1911 Norincos are worth looking at also.:)

February 8, 2003, 07:22 PM
"All Chevrolet Equinox compact SUVs debuting in the '04 model year will be powered by a V-6 built at General Motors' Shanghai, China, plant." -Feb, 2003 Motor Trend

So you cannot get away from it. Even your Chevy pick em up truck will have a Chicom motor.

I like my Norincos:D

February 8, 2003, 08:04 PM
Damn It!

Now I can't buy Chevys anymore!


February 8, 2003, 08:57 PM
Who cares about a chicom motor in a mexican built pickup?

Buy a ford, you'll get a real truck that actually runs. :neener: Made in Kentucky none the less. The engine? 7.3L Powerstroke diesel, originally by International Harvester. Or get the new 6.0 L powerstroke, fords own littlepowerhouse.

Any takers on my computer?

Like I said, if the norinco is the gun you really like then buy one. And then feed it lots and lots and lots of American ammo :D

February 8, 2003, 09:02 PM
I'd rather just drive a German ride but that's just me :D

The mere fact that the "Communists" are engaging in so much capitalist activities makes me want to buy more of their stuff. Line their pockets the capitalist way and I'm sure that they will cease to be "communists".

Kahr carrier
February 9, 2003, 05:47 AM
German engineering you got to love it.:)

Uncle Ethan
February 9, 2003, 04:29 PM
But if I buy Norinco aren't I supporting the Democratic Party??:D

Sir Galahad
February 9, 2003, 05:22 PM
No, communists are of better moral character than Democrats.:D

Uncle Ethan
February 9, 2003, 05:34 PM
:D I must agree that the Communists are certainly more forthright about their intentions rhan are the Dems.:p

Sir Galahad
February 9, 2003, 06:26 PM
They know what the definition of "is" is, too. :D

February 9, 2003, 06:45 PM
I looked at 2 of these at a recent gunshow, 1 was set up for cowboy, the other set up like a trenchgun... neat looking, HEAVY for a shotgun, but interesting. They were priced around $350-375

Thing is I could have bought a NEW Remington 11-87 in tac-black with a factory mag extension for under $300 off the SAME TABLE.

Good looks cost money, maybe we'll luck out and Uberti, Pedersoli or Pietta will start making Winchester 97's.

Uncle Ethan
February 9, 2003, 07:16 PM
I had no idea my old '97 is worth so much. I better leave the bbl full length, if everybody cuts them down, it'l really be valuable.

February 9, 2003, 07:51 PM
Uncle Ethan
Which production run is yours (1st run, didn't break down stopped around 1915, second run started in 1915 went to 1950's:mag and barrel could be taken off action)
If you have one of the first run, your definitely looking at a rare peice of history. Second runs also have a high value, but are a little more common.
The 97 was actually winchesters first gun designed for smokeless powder. There was a very short run of the previous model (1893?) that was recalled and replaced with the 97 when smokeless was introduced. There is still a very small number of them around, they're supposed to be worth a fortune.

Uncle Ethan
February 9, 2003, 08:22 PM
Well Redneck- I traded off my solid frame a few years ago- I didn't realize it was a different run. I have a takedown 12 guage now. It is about a 30" bbl, I think. My first shotgun was a 16bore 97, so I do like them. I had a black diamond at one time, but it was wore pretty good. Thks for the info.

February 10, 2003, 02:34 AM
97's don't cost THAT much. I got mine, a 1907-vintage takedown 12 ga. with very little bluing and a battered stock with a Remington buttplate of all things, for the huge price of $250. I've had it completely apart, and the inside looks good except for the broken left-side extractor. Regardless, it runs fine, and I'm going to order another extractor from Numrich.

I've seen a coouple of 16's for $3-400, and the only 12's I ever saw that cost more than that were trench guns. I think I've seen about 6 or 7, total.

Mind you, mine has a really long barrel (30", I think.) with a tight choke. This was somebody's goose gun. It's hard to bust skeet with it, but I have very little experience. More practice is in order.

November 23, 2004, 12:40 PM
Well lets get started here . First off I couldn't help but laugh when someone posted don't buy it due to the fact its made in a communist country . These days just about anything you buy is made in China so I doubt buying a Chinese shotgun is going to make them an equal super power anytime soon .
Now for quality . The Norinco Model 97 is a very well made shotgun . The quality runs neck in neck with a Winchester . I love the one I own . It patterns really great with all the buckshot I have ever ran through it . A lot of people are misinformed about the quality of Chinese weapons . I own the Norinco 97 plus two Norinco 45ACP 1911-A1's . The Norinco 1911 is such good quality steel that its one of only 4 brands named that can safely be converted to a .460 Rowland . I also own a Chinese Polytech AKM-47 . It by far is the Cadillac of AK-47's . They are so well made that the US Navy SEALS chose them over all other AK's made . Anyway I say if its Chinese buy it . You wont be sorry . .....................Sumawolf

November 25, 2004, 06:39 PM
I found a Original 97 a year or so for $350. It was refinished but in otherwise great shape. It had KCPD on the side. I went home to think about it and that was a mistake. It was gone. You can find original ones out there. But if you want to buy a Norinco then go buy one.

Zeke Menuar
November 25, 2004, 07:22 PM
Back to shotguns

I would rather buy a commie clone M97 for lots of shooting than butcher up on original. I am currently keeping a 1906 M97 safe from the butchers and am hoping to get another one or two. The thought of someone hacking up an original M97 for any reason turns my stomach.

This is my opinion, your opinion may vary.


November 25, 2004, 09:32 PM
Buy an original for $250 or so. Get a riot barrel from Numrich arms for $100 or so. Get a gunsmith who knows 97's to give it a tune up. $400 or so later and you have a tuned up long barrel hunting shot gun and with a spare riot tube and it's the real deal.

Why buy a repro? Even here in the PRK they almost fall on you in gun stores.

Myn 1935 take down was cut as the barrel was bulged. If the tube was in good shape, I would have bought a simple replacement. Most I see are in solid condition and just need a little help.

I have a total of $400 into this one.

What little I know of the Chinese/Norinco 1897's is that it is better to get the later/newer production as there were issues with older one. Also, I have heard that the Norinco's use metric hardware. Not a problem, but you need to be aware of it before you bugger things up. IMHO, I just don't see the need to pick one up when usable originals are plentiful and the shotgun is FAR from being rare/collectable in it's regular/traditional form. There are enough still floating around to keep them in circulation. SASS shooting has revitalized interest, but hens teeth they are not. You're not going to send junior to college buying up, hording, and then reselling 30" 1897's.

November 25, 2004, 10:06 PM
I had two of the Norinco trench guns and one of their riot guns. All 3 worked flawlessly. The trench guns accepted an original WWI Winchester made bayonet without any fitting at all. They all patterned well too. I would not be afraid to carry one on duty, or keep one handy for HD. I also like the visible hammer and the ability to unload the magazine without cycling the action.

The way I see it, the fastest way to turn commies into capitalists is to give them a taste. The Chinese will find a way to make a buck one way or another, putting affordable, reliable guns in the hands of Americans is more important IMO.

My $0.02 YMMV.

November 25, 2004, 11:57 PM
For $250, these are a pretty neat faux Trench Gun. Laid next to my 1901-production '97, the metal fit and finishing isn't quite as nice. However, it is very much acceptable. Functions perfectly, looks good, and doesn't break the bank.

Not much NOT to like.


January 23, 2009, 06:49 PM
I have one of these and it shoots great! Be very careful of the slam fire tho. I got an Enfield bayonet for it off e-bay for $40.:)

January 23, 2009, 08:07 PM
The "communist" Chinese have lower taxes and less government than we do in many respects. Yes, their government sucks, but it doesn't go around funding every OTHER dictatorship on the planet, like the US kleptocracy. Most of my friends are Chinese from the south, where everything is made... they hate Beijing more than you can imagine, and most of the stuff you buy from China goes to build up the private sector there more than it does the government.

But Norinco stuff isn't that great (I think it's pretty government-connected, too)... I had one of their Browning .22 copies and it wasn't the real deal. It worked, but you'll be happier if you get something better made and can keep it forever.

January 23, 2009, 08:32 PM
I think it's a little too late to start worrying about buying a shotgun made in the PRC.


China Tops Japan in U.S. Debt Holdings
Beijing Gains Sway Over U.S. Economy

China's new status -- it now owns nearly $1 out of every $10 in U.S. public debt -- means Washington will be increasingly forced to rely on Beijing as it seeks to raise money to cover the cost of a $700 billion bailout. China, in fact, may be the government's largest creditor, period. The Treasury does not keep records on domestic bond holders. But analysts said China's holdings are so vast that the existence of a larger stakeholder in the United States now seems unlikely.

January 23, 2009, 09:36 PM
The day we all stop shopping at Walmart or buying anything made in China is the day we can start judging others about buying a firearm made in China.

January 27, 2009, 02:19 PM
My brother is one of those SASS guys. He has one of those Chinese 97's and he likes it. He's had it slicked up a bit, which wasn't cheap, but he says it's reliable and works great.

January 27, 2009, 10:42 PM
Both my wife and I have Norinco 1897s. Neither of them have had any problems.

January 28, 2009, 07:21 AM
I'm a little puzzled as to why you shouldn't buy these shotguns because they're "commie" guns, yet all you guys rave over AK's, SKSs, Moisins, etc., etc., etc.

Why the big pointed finger at this one particular gun? Cause you already have all the others? Shotguns don't do it for you? Wolf ammo, no problem?

I smell a taint of hypocrisy here.

January 28, 2009, 09:49 AM
I thought about buying one of the Chinese 1897s or coach guns but couldn't do it. I own a Chinese AK but that's ok because AKs are commie guns. A 1897 or coach gun is an Old West gun and that's why people buy them. Most people are buying these guns purely for nostalgia and romance. If you want to feel that you're reliving the Old West, buying a Chinese gun doesn't cut it.

Dave McCracken
January 28, 2009, 09:53 AM
666, not "Commie" guns.

Chinese guns made by the Red Army using convict labor.

Supporting the largest dictatorship left on Earth while talking about Liberty is both hypocritical and counter to our best interests.

There's a Russian shotgun here now. A Saiga. It's a loaner.

And an Italian one. No US company makes an U/O I like.

All other firearms here are US made. A fair number by any standard.

Good pumpguns made in the US are neither scarce nor expensive. Buy American.

A recent issue of Shotgun Sports shows a couple Model 97 Winchesters selling for about $400. Local dealers may have better prices.

January 28, 2009, 10:03 AM
Thing is I could have bought a NEW Remington 11-87 in tac-black with a factory mag extension for under $300 off the SAME TABLE.


I must be misreading what you wrote, but it seems like you are saying that this person was selling a new 11-87 for under $300--is that correct? Are you sure you don't mean 870?

January 28, 2009, 10:22 AM
Anybody want to unload those crappy commie made Norinco 1911s that blow up and skeer the wimmin and make the cows stop milking?

Send them to me, I will make sure that they are properly disposed of.

As a red blooded patriotic American, you should be ashamed of owning one of these slave labor productions. Hurry, send them to me to erase that stigma that emaniants from your gun room.

(As a serious footnote, the Chinese Army (Jefferson-Wampoa) is running the Panama Canal. I worry more about that than some bubba like me owning a commie rifle or pistol)

June 8, 2009, 08:47 PM
These Norinco 1897's are slamfire capable, right?

June 8, 2009, 09:12 PM
Yes I believe so.

June 9, 2009, 07:33 AM
I wouldn't trust it for HD. For cowboy shooting or just having fun with, fine. My list for HD is limited to the 870 and 500. They are so good and so relatively cheap there is no reason IMO to consider anything else. They have stood the test of time. Also china devalues it's own currency and has a horrible record on working conditions and pollution. They can stick it. Chances are we will be at war with them within the next 20 years or so anyhow. Why help them build a deepwater navy?

June 9, 2009, 08:29 AM
its comical that whenever the topic of Chinese weapons comes up the crap about "Chinese Steel" gets thrown around like its some well known fact. Its bunk. I had a Norinco 1911 that was made of some of the toughest steel of any 1911. My 97 Trench is an extremely well made gun. The finish and machining are very nice.
If you don't want to support China than stop electing Democrats who put them on the most favored trade status (Clinton) or who will put us in hock for a trillion dollars to them (Obama). Our government supports the dictator in Egypt, supports the oppressive government of Saudi Arabia, and our President is cozying up to the Dictator Hugo Chavez, and pandering to Muslims and Iran while North Korea conduct nuclear tests and launches missiles towards our shores and you are whining about buying a shotgun from the Chinese? We have all but handed out country over to them. If I can buy a WEAPON from them so they don't have it and WE do. That works for me. Besides I like my 97 Trench just fine.

June 9, 2009, 08:53 AM
They are junk. They have problems with accidental discharges. Stick with a modern shotgun.

June 9, 2009, 09:47 AM
Where do you get that info?

June 9, 2009, 09:52 AM
Vintage thread!

June 10, 2009, 06:28 PM
If I can buy a WEAPON from them so they don't have it and WE do. That works for me. Besides I like my 97 Trench just fine.

+1 on that. My Pardner pump is excellent too. So is my SKS and so was my Norinco Tokarev.

All I want to say is that protectionism is what France and Great Britain did from the 70's on. How did that work out for them? For all the hubub about slave labor we shouldn't forget that a LOT of US companies contract out their products to far east countries to take advantage of that same slave labor. I don't like it any more than anyone else. But I do like being able to sell US products in China and that will more than offset the manufacturing jobs lost to cheap Chinese labor.

It should also be pointed out that people in China can actually make a living on the money they are paid in those factories. We tend to judge them against what we make. If they made the same money we do they would live like Bill Gates in most of those far east countries. In fact you see a lot of people with a little money left over from their hey day move to places in the far east so they can continue the lifestyle they are used to living. In particular ex-Hollywood actors are moving to those places in droves because they can keep the lifestyle they enjoyed here because when you pay someone a dollar a day there you are making their lives much better. It isn't like trying to live on a dollar a day in NYC or San Francisco or DC.

The US has benefited tremendously from an imbalance in currency rates over the years. My daughter recently spent a couple of months in Argentina. A luxury hotel costs $10 a day there. So if we pay those people $10 a day to make things for us we can live much better and so can they. It isn't a zero sum gain here. Why do you think all those Mexicans are moving here? They can send money home and their families can live well even if the people here have to live badly to do it. They are dedicated enough to their families to put up with the hardships. Besides they can save money and move back home after a while and they will live good off of their savings.

France took the trade protectionist route and look at them now. They can't sell anything to anyone. They can't afford anything that isn't made in France and they have a huge underclass of immigrants etc. that can't get jobs. You need a permit to get a job there (only native born French people get permits - have you noticed all the riots there?) and workers can't be fired or laid off after working just six months or so. And the result is they're going downhill like a roller coaster.

I hate the abuses of the Chinese govt. too but it has little to do with the amount of money their workers make. It's more to do with a government that wants to control everything (sound familiar). That's what the unions want from our government and what they want is to adopt France like restrictions on buying imported products. Once we go down that road the other countries ban our exports from going there. Canada is already starting to do that to us over Obama's steel poliices.

This is a recipe for disaster. It won't help us. It will hurt us badly. Sure a few workers will prosper but a lot of people on fixed incomes will become incredibly poor. They won't be able to run to Wally World and buy what they need at a good price. They'll have to pay import duty inflated prices and they won't be able to afford it.

Do you realize what this will do to our exports of health care equipment, drugs, computer technology and farm equipment? Those industries will collapse if we try protectionism.

The fact of the matter is you can't change the laws of economics no more than you can change the laws of gravity. Any country that tries ends up paying a huge price for trying.

And my NEF shotgun is absolutely wonderful and I got an initial problem fixed immediately under warranty. You just have to buy from the right dealers. If you want a gun like that buy from a store that has their own gunsmith. My NEF Pardner is better than my Remington 870 Express. I'd say it's every bit the gun the WM Is as far as the operation of it goes. And I can replace every part with 870 parts except for the barrel. And if push comes to shove I can buy a broken 870 and put all the parts from my Norinco into the receiver and still have a good gun.

I've heard stories about qc problems with some Norinco models but everything I've ever bought that was made by Norinco was pure gold IMO. My SKS. my Tokarev and now my Pardner Pump have all been excellent guns.

One more point. China withdrew from the world stage after WWII. They thought they could live well with only Chinese products. They ended up starving by the tens of millions. China is getting away from that sort of thing and now we want to go down that road????? Not me pal.

I don't know where to start. Using an economic/political/socio-economical argument for purposes of "selling" yourself on Norinco/Chi-com import shotguns is, at the very least, a poor reason and at worst aiding and abetting an enemy of democracy and the United States.

I'll repost this from earlier in this thread:

Besides the political aspects of supporting the last large dictatorship left on Earth....

The Norinco stuff has varied wildly in quality of metal, and warranty work seems to be nonexistent.

The shifting trade and political agreements(China condemned any action by the US against the Taliban, North Korea,etc) mean that supply of spare parts and even new stuff is chancy.

With great US made pump guns available for less than one week's wages, it's not the best idea to go elsewhere

Fact is, China stole a design from an American company, uses near slave labor, cheap metal and poor QC.
IMO it's a poor implementation of the Remington 870 design.

The Chinese government you support by purchasing a Norinco or similiar chi-com import practices forced abortions, locks people up for their thoughts and ideas, executes dissidents, sponsors terrorism and oppresses millions.

Being who I am I cannot even imagine living in such a country.

Just my $.02 worth.

June 10, 2009, 08:30 PM
shotguns only

Dave McCracken
June 10, 2009, 10:02 PM
Stick to shotguns, guys, or this thread goes away.

June 11, 2009, 07:17 PM
Deleted to conform with Dave's wishes.....:)

June 11, 2009, 07:21 PM
Funny thing is on this topic I agree with King Ghidora and I have a few decent Chinese guns in my collection that I enjoy shooting......One day I will buy a Model 97 trenchgun but they are sold out right now in Canada.

Norinco's can be rough around the edges but if you enjoy tinkering and working on guns like I do they are good fun!

Art Eatman
June 13, 2009, 05:08 PM
If I gotta come back again to this thread, I'm gonna think about more than just deleting OT stuff.

Old Guard Dog
June 14, 2009, 04:23 PM
It is sad though,, since the US designed the "pump" action. By the way, the old trench guns were called "trombone" action. I saw a few at a great ordinance museum at Rock Island a few weeks ago.

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