[HammerheadSSN663]

Sights are great for the range but what good are they when the SHTF (reality)?

I'm debating on removing my 1911 Colt Commander sights for ease of CC draw.

[Old Fuff]

Well you might try some point-shoulder practice... ;)

But removing the sights won't make one wit of difference in the speed of your draw.

[christcorp]

For actual Self Defense (As in carrying in public); where the threat is generally less than 20-30 feet; sites are pretty much useless. We should practice our shooting with point and click methodology. That is how I practice normally. 20 feet away; drawing the weapon; shooting a paper plate. Teach muscle memory. If done enough, the brain will automatically bring the hand/gun up to the point of aim; e.g. Center of Mass. Is this the only method of shooting; heck no. But it is what I practice and like. If a person likes using sites for their defensive practice, that's cool. But in a real life situation, your target will NOT be standing still and they aren't going to wait and stop so you can take better aim. If your target isn't moving, then either their back is to you or they don't know you're there. In either case, you'll have a difficult time convincing anyone that your life was threatened. Unless of course their concentration was on that of your family member or someone else you were trying to protect.

[Hungry Seagull]

I think you best leave the sights on the gun as they are.

I tell you why.

My blackhawk quickdraw rig that has a notch on top and back of the plastic holster that accomodates my white dot sights on my .45 ACP.

My Uncle Mike's Hip Holster has been formed to specifically protect the trigger of the gun, retain the gun, and provide a notch for the dots so that they dont hang up on the draw.

My Smart Carry's Holster is very tight for deep concealment and with the right size pants under a large summer shirt, there is not decrease in draw speed. The dots dont hang up anywhere.

Finally think about this. You aim with the front sight all the time, what are you going to do beyond 12 feet when you dont have a definate sight to aim the weapon, much less level it at the standing target or provide a 1 to 2 MOA lead against a diagnonally approaching target or a crossing left (Or right) running target side to side?

Your gain in speed is going to be very small. So small it cannot matter.

You might think that I am not good at fast draw. I aint. So why am I telling you any gain in speed does not matter?

I say this. I have had to make correct and precise inputs at speeds well above safe manuvering on a loaded 18 wheeler where life of someone is at stake with very precious last few seconds of grains running out of a gigantic hour glass of time before impact to that person.

Time for me slows and I know it due to the stress imposed onto my body and mind. It makes feel like moving through deep water when actually I appear to others moving extremely fast.

Leave those sights alone I say, find another carry system that wont hang you out to dry on that sights.

Dont butcher that gun you dummy!

One more thing, a gentle parting shot.

If you are sooo worried about fast draw (The quick and the dead movie style with Gene Hackman) then you need to push your situational Awareness up to condition yellow from white and outwards at least 20 feet for the full 360 coverage of your environment at all times.

[ScareyH22A]

Take turns with your buds with an airsoft gun. Drills with airsoft is where it's at. BTW, they sting a little so if you play the bad guy there's an incentive to not get hit.

[REAPER4206969]

For actual Self Defense (As in carrying in public); where the threat is generally less than 20-30 feet; sites are pretty much useless.
http://glocktalk.com/forums/images/smilies/slap.gif

[Japle]

If you're sure you won't use the sights in a fight, you should remove them.

That way it won't hurt as much when the BG takes your empty gun away from you and shoves it up your butt.

[moooose102]

heck, think of the time you will have in court if you accidently hit a bystander and have to explain removing the sights to a jury. good luck with that! leave the sights where they are. if you must do something with them, take a file to them and round off the edges, or build up "ramps" from clear epoxy to smooth them out. just leave them there. your freedom, or financial future may depend on it.

[Jim Watson]

As Chick Gaylord said of such things, are you arming yourself for an affair of honor in a telephone booth? If you have an average of 20 feet, that means some have to be longer, some shorter. My unaimed effective range is about 10-12 feet. Beyond that, I make some use of the sights. Maybe not much, but they are there and in my line of sight and reflexes.

[VegasOPM]

Here is another wrinkle in favor of keeping your sights. Lets say that you are in an armed encounter and you do the smart thing and get behind cover. Most likely you have never practiced shooting from index while sprawled out prone, shooting around a planter. "Walking the fire to the target" works for Artillery- not handguns.

[ROBBY.1911]

there has been a lot studied on the sight situation and if they are really needed even in competition such as ipsc or idpa. todd jarret, famous handgunner, "shoots out of the notch." this means that he follows the edict of "front sight--press." when his front sight lands on the target he pulls the trigger. another way that other well-known handgunners have experimented with is removing the sights or taping them over, making them useless. you can do this with no trouble, no muss--no fuss. here's how it works. you use, if you are right-handed, the upper left rear corner of your slide lined up with the upper left front corner, which draws an imaginary line for the brain to follow. get your pistol out and LOOK, not sight so much, down the slide to the target. it's a very natural thing to do and fun to try at the range where you have a target to record your efforts. i hope that this helps.:evil:

[-v-]

Keep 'em on. Practice drawing and point shooting out to 7 yards or so and learn the feel of your gun. Once you have that established, under 7 yards you won't have time to use the sights and will instead go on muscle memory, and if by some freak of nature accident you end up shooting beyond 7 yards, you'll be thankful you have them! Also, don't forget to practice shooting on the move, practice shooting in any position that you might end up in during a defensive shooting (prone, suppine, kneeling, head-stand, etc.). For me I always start off with a mag of mid-rate fire at 7 yards and then proceed to do fire-on-the move drills. Get used to getting hits on the target, while making yourself a hard target to engage.

Also, as Hungry Seagull said, nearly all holsters are built with a groove for the sights. Removing them might alter the gun-to-holster fit and actually make the draw slower. +1 on the clear epoxy or acrylic ramps over the back of the sights if it really is that big a deal.

[Feanaro]

If you need to point shoot, the sights won't bother you. If you need an accurate shot using the sights, it won't be easy if they aren't there.

Factoring everything around the "average gunfight" won't help if you have an unaverage gunfight.

[maskedman504]

The airsoft idea of drawing andfiring on a advancing attacker is a very interesting idea. Where some eye protection though! (attacker)

[Tiomoid]

Read Massad. Well covered by him.

[Ed Ames]

Sights turn a 3-25 foot weapon into a 1 to 50+ YARD weapon.

That's part of why I kinda prefer the old style small/precise sights to modern "huge dot" sights. I can hit something big and close without any sights, I can't hit something far and small with some of the oversized "modern" sights.

[David E]

If your sights are an undercut post that catches on clothing during the draw, change it to a ramped sight.

Sights are good. Jim Cirillo used sights in his deadly confrontations.

[JoeSlomo]

Keep them.


The day may come when you may have to put a bullet in something this big: O

The day may come when you may have to put a bullet in something this big: .


You never know.

And SHOULD that day come, you sure don't want to be kicking yourself in the arse for removing your sights WHILE you are still in a fight...

[Double Naught Spy]

I'm debating on removing my 1911 Colt Commander sights for ease of CC draw.

So maybe the question should be as to what sort of problems are you having? How are the sights lessening the ease of your draw? Do the sights make your gun too heavy? If so, carry 1 less round or convert the rail (at great expense) to a gutter sight.

Do the sights snag on something? Front or rear? As alluded to, both can be changed or modified to sights that won't snag.

If the sights are catching on the holster, you have probably made a very poor holster decision.

If the sights are snagging on your clothing, you might reconsider some of your wardrobe options.

If the presence of sights is having a negative effect on your draw, then either 1) you are very unpracticed, or 2) you have made some sort of terribly poor holster decisions.

If the sights are snagging in your pocket, you need to get a pocket holster.

Of course if you shoot with your eyes closed, sights are pretty meaningless.

[Kwanger]

Same as everyone else says - keep the sights. If the threat is as close to you as you think it is likely to be, it won't matter. However, should the possibility arise that you find yoursle needing to engage at a distance beyond your nose (well, about 3-4 feet), sights do have a use. They have use for follow on fire; they also have use in a 'weapons drawn but not fired' situation - if I had a couple of seconds to spare, I'd want to be looking down them, rather than wishing I'd not butchere my gun.

Sights give you options; remove at your peril. If you are having snagging probs - practice your draw more.

[Frank Ettin]

With the proper training and practice, it's amazing how fast one can acquire a flash sight picture and hit accurately. Learning those techniques and developing proficiency in the use of those techniques also gives you the flexibility to deal with targets at pretty much any distance. Yes, most gun fights are close range affairs. But what do you do if you've focused all your training on engaging targets 5 to 7 yard away; and the one time you really need to use your gun, it's the one in a hundred case in which you must engage an armed threat 10 to 12 yards away and partially behind cover?



The idea behind the flash sight picture is to focus on the front sight quickly and align the sights only as precisely as warranted under the circumstances. At distances on the order of 5 to 7 yards, when the target is the center of mass, a rough alignment will be sufficient to assure good hits (as long as you have good trigger control). As distances increase or the target shrinks, the alignment needs to be more precise. But with training and practice you can develop a good sense of how good is good enough and be able to make instantaneous judgments. 


As Clint Smith wrote in the January/February 2008 American Handgunner:



"It's alway argued that in a fight shooters will not look at their sights. I strongly agree -- if no one has ever taught them otherwise. To say that people don't, or won't, look at their sights is wrong. People have, they will in the future, and they'll hit the...target too. The correct alignment of the sights is a learnable skill. Is a textbook perfect sight picture available in every fight? Of course not....In fairness, the sights are only part of the issue -- the jerked on trigger doesn't improve anything."



Even when one has been taught to look at the sights, how much has he actually practiced quickly seeing the adequate sight picture and acting reflexively, without conscious thought, on the rough sight picture? As another trainer, Bennie Cooley, once told me, "It's not that I shoot quicker than you do. It's that I see quicker."

[SaxonPig]

I am not aware of any respected shooting instructor who advocates removing sights. It seems like a very, very foolish idea to me. The late Jff Cooper (whom I admire greatly) was a staunch defender of using the sights in a real gunfight.

I have only been in one gunfight but I can tell you that I DISTINCTLY recall seeing the sights and lining them up on target during the shooting... and I still missed 3 times out of 4 rounds fired at 30 feet. You think a man is a big target until he starts moving and you get all excited.

I suggest you leave the sights where they are and practice using them.

[ar10]

Learn to point shoot at 25' and if you can practice night shooting. Most of the encounters, day or night, are up close and personal and you don't have the time to aim and fire. I lucked out a couple of years ago. A long time police instructor offered a 12 hr class on a Sunday that started at 5pm. By the time we got to the range is pitch black with no moon, we couldn't even see the targets at 25ft. You wouldn't believe how many misses there were. One person had laser grips on a .38 snubby who had the best shots, and that big ol flashlight you might grab will very likely be the biggest problem you'll have.

[CWL]

You may never need them, but its better to have them than wishing you did.

I train for failure drills and precision shots just in case the BG is barricaded or holding a family member.

[10-Ring]

What kind of sights do you have on your Colt to make this an option or even an issue? I've had Novaks on my CBOB and drawing is simple and instinctual.

[KBintheSLC]

I wouldn't remove your sights, but I would practice point shooting often. A good way to get used to it is to shoot with both eyes open and focus on the target... not the sights. Then tape over the glasses on your weak eye so you can get used to isolating the picture from your strong eye. Before long, you will learn to ignore the weak eye even when both eyes are open. This method is much faster than standard front sight, single eye shooting. It also gives you better peripheral vision, and makes shooting while moving much easier.

[GEM]

The average gun fight - blah, blah - well - it does happen that you could be in a longer range gun fight. It's not hard to find some out there. Remember the AF military police officer who stopped a rampage at 75 yards with an M9.

Yes, if the mugger just walks up to you and says: give me your money - then you can do your lightning fast draw.

The hall wall in my building is about 50 yards long - we could easily see a rampage (but we can't carry - so I don't need sights then - now do I?).

As many said - just train.

[easyg]

Sights are great for the range but what good are they when the SHTF (reality)?

I'm debating on removing my 1911 Colt Commander sights for ease of CC draw.
Don't remove your sights.

The average shooter is going to be able to hit his target, at any range, more often when he uses his sights.

Will you always be guaranteed the chance to use your sights in any given shooting?

No.

But there's a very good chance that you WILL be able to use your sights in any given shooting.
Throwing away the option is not a smart thing to do IMO.

[tipoc]

"What good are sights in a real situation?"

Very good particularly if you are more than 3-4 yards away from what you want to hit.

tipoc

[22-rimfire]

Take a look at XS sights. They have a lot going for them.

[ScareyH22A]

XS sights are pretty nice but the tritium tube is tiny like any other Trijicon. Kind of a let down considering that it's supposed to be a ginormous front sight thingamabob. Great for well lit conditions tho. Very fast sight on target.

[Zerodefect]

9 times out of ten, you won't need to use your sights in a situation, or worse, you won't have time to use them.

As long as you can hit a lifesized target at 25 feet with your sights taped over, you'll be fine.

If you take a class that empahsizes real shooting situations, you'll see that its quite easy to point shoot quickly and effectively. Just pointing at the target without the gun raised all the way, or raised with no sight picture or a "flash sight pic" is too easy at 21 feet or less.

Point shooting is less complex than playing catch with a baseball. And at shorter ranges usually.

That said keep your sights on your pistol and invest in a better holster. my sights have never slowed my draw down and I'm useing the biggest front sight out there.


The XS sights are the fastest sights for regular CCW defensive ranges. With practice they still work fine further out. The big dot 24/7 are what is on my primary carry, a Glock 23.

The tritium vials are the same size as any other night sight. I actually find them to be a tad too bright. I fing 3 dot night sights to be useless at night due to not being ablr to tell which dot is which quickly. With the XS sights you just pull the two dots together.

Best sights out there for CCW. I also like the Warren Tacticle 2-dot sights

[Mikhail Weiss]

Hi, all. Long-time reader, first-time poster.

I find this curious...


For actual Self Defense … the threat is generally less than 20-30 feet...


Where does this information come from?

I also find the following curious, at least as they pertain to point shooting:


...My unaimed effective range is about 10-12 feet.

...Get used to getting hits on the target,

...Learn to point shoot at 25'

...As long as you can hit a lifesized target at 25 feet … you'll be fine.

...you'll see that its quite easy to point shoot … effectively ... at 21 feet...


In the realm of point shooting, what is the standard acceptable accuracy rate at 21 feet?

[GEM]

If the round doesn't go into someone else?

The average figure comes from police and the typical mugging report. Using it to suggest that you don't need sights as compared to learning close in tactics comes from folks who don't understand statistics. The average doesn't guarantee it always happens.

The real situation comment is just plain silly. Learn about distributions and risk. Bah - I get bored saying this.

[Frank Ettin]

...If you take a class that empahsizes real shooting situations, you'll see that its quite easy to point shoot quickly and effectively. Just pointing at the target without the gun raised all the way, or raised with no sight picture or a "flash sight pic" is too easy at 21 feet or less...Well, I took a class from Louis Awerbuck (author of Tactical Reality and More Tactical Reality). He has real world credentials and still emphasized a flash sight picture at any distance beyond about 5 feet. He "emphasized real shooting situations" by using three dimensional targets in orientations other than standing straight. He also set up those three dimensional targets behind "no shoots" or with a "no shoot" behind them so we'd have to move to get a clear shot. Shooting at a three dimensional target about five or six yards away, with the target leaning at a 20 degree angle, turned a little to its right and kind of behind a "non-combatant" is something very different from what we're used to; and a flash sight picture sure came in handy.

[Vern Humphrey]

I recall Massad Ayoob discussing this issue. He said if you separate winners and (surviving) losers of gunfights, the winners tend to use the sights and the losers not.

Personally, I find sights useful at anything beyond bad breath range -- and there is no reason not to use them.

[Zerodefect]

The stats are from various police and FBI sources. Most I have read showed that more often than not, the time you need to make use of your CCW is going to be at ranges closer than 10 feet and last less than 5 seconds. Another scary lesson from those stats: Of the officers or FBI that were killed, as many a 15-20% were killed with thier own weapon!

Plenty of gas station convienience store cam vids on the internet to watch. It all goes down fast.

It deosn't matter what ranges you "think" the fights going to happen in. It deosn't matter if you prefere sights or not.

Acceptable accuracy is having a dead target. Use life size targets, and pay attension to your ability to hit vital areas.

You best learn how to shoot with sights, without sights, Flash sight pic, point shoot, and from a retension position.

Try it yourself.

Outdoor range, like a quarry. 3 life sized targets. 21 feet away. Draw and blast them using your sights. Do it again without a sight picture, point and shoot. 2-3 shots per target in any order you want to practice.

Which is quicker for you.

do it again at 15', 10', 5'..................your going to be suprized. I can point shoot at 15' with 100% accuracy on a life size target. Its not that hard.

It deosn't matter what your fav shooting style is, or what 'yoob says. Train, train somemore, when you've trained enough, form your own opinion. If you allways have time to use your sights, then fine, use em. Your only shorting yourself if you never bother to train to have the ability to point shoot.

If you need your sights to kill a target 10' away. Good luck to ya.......

[ar10]

Try aiming a handgun with no or little light at 5.10, and 25' and watch what happens. You'll likely miss the target. Then try the same thing with point shooting.
From what I've read, mostly FBI reports and from talking with LEO's, 99% of attacks are very up close, less than 5'. One thing I did learn is an attacker running after a victim from 40' can close that distance in 10 seconds. That gives the victim very little time to react.

[Mags]

Try aiming a handgun with no or little light at 5.10, and 25' and watch what happensAll my handguns have night sights. Next?

[ar10]

All my handguns have night sights. Next?

So you have plenty of time to draw, sight, and fire. Just how far is the BG. I'll hang up now so you can figure it out.

[Mags]

From what I've read, mostly FBI reports and from talking with LEO's, 99% of attacks are very up close, less than 5'. Who the hell lets a stranger within 5 feet of them? Where is situational awareness?

So you have plenty of time to draw, sight, and fire. Just how far is the BG. I'll hang up now so you can figure it out.Look here is how I was trained. You fire from the draw in sync while you find a sight picture then you fire until the threat stops moving following and firing as the perp hits the ground. So you draw, you point fire until you can get a sight picture then you continue to fire till subject is on the ground(following target to ground with sights on target at this point).

Don't really know what your question had to do with low light aiming but there you go.

[Frank Ettin]

So you have plenty of time to draw, sight, and fire....With good training and practice, it doesn't take much time at all.

[Mags]

With good training and practice, it doesn't take much time at all. good point , i sit watching TV on occassion practicing sight picture with both eyes open.

[RobMoore]

If you're having trouble getting out of the holster, removing the sights isn't going to fix it.

I hate to be a grinch about this, but its downright silly the things people come up with to avoid PRACTICING.

[Sapper771]

I dont recommend removing the sights. They come in handy for the distant shots.

Out of the hundreds of times I have had to draw my weapon, I dont recall using the sights, but the adrenaline is also pumping heavily.

When I carried a Glock 22 without night sights, I never remembered seeing them in situations. I now carry a Glock 31 with night sights, and now all I see is a blur of green, but the front sight stands out above all.

When I train with pistol , I normally dont focus too much on sights at close range. I more or less have a semi flash sight picture held low and I focus on the target mostly. I have noticed some shooters focusing too much on the sights and how they are aligned, which cost them a considerable amount of time.

[.38 Special]

I won't weigh in on the sighted/unsighted topic except to point out that very good shooting has been done by proponents of both "schools" so it is probably wise to become competent at both of them.

As to the actual question, I will only mention that Bill Jordan had sights on his gun, and he was faster than you -- regardless of who you are.

HTH!

[RobMoore]

Only drawn mine once on a real person, but I vividly remember seeing my sights aligned on him.

Take the techniques that shooters who train to point-shoot use, and apply it to your sighted fire training, and you'll be even better. Sighted fire doesn't HAVE to take more time.

[easyg]

The Real Mags:
Who the hell lets a stranger within 5 feet of them? Where is situational awareness?
Have you ever walked down a busy or crowed street?

Ever been shopping in a busy or crowed store?

Ever been to a crowed concert or exhibit or park?

Ever been part of the crowd on the side of the road during a parade?

Ever wait in a long line of people for any thing (movie theater, ball game, amusement park, etc...)?

The fact is this:
If you even occasionally venture out to public places, sooner or later, you going to be "rubbing elbows" with other folks.
And inevitably, some of those folks will be predators....and truth be known, you will probably NOT be able to pick them out from the non-predators.

[Vern Humphrey]

But one points need to be made clear: Even though you may be in a crowd, predators (other than, say pickpockets) prefer to isolate their victims.

It's when you transition from the crowd to the isolated place -- say a parking lot or garage -- that you're most likely to be attacked.

[anythingshiny]

def keep sights!

for anyone recommending ramp sights..try to manipulate your hg with JUST the dominate hand..left hand is 'shot' for example..or hanging on to your child.

a type I or II failure requires you to work the slide. tap the mag on your knee, thigh, hip whatever. invert the gun and use the rear sight and your sturdy gun belt ( you ARE wearing a sturdy belt yes?) or your holster and rack the slide and get back in the fight.

i have seen first hand a whole load of fail when a 1911 guy with novak-ish sights tried and tried and tried to clear a simple malf.

[SharpsDressedMan]

Any speed you would pick up removing the sights you could gain just by practicing with the sights as is. As long as guys like Rob Leatham, Bob Munden etc are faster than you, you need to practice. AND, you just might need the sights....not all shootings are are 3 foot distance.

[Mags]

Have you ever walked down a busy or crowed street?

Ever been shopping in a busy or crowed store?

Ever been to a crowed concert or exhibit or park?

Ever been part of the crowd on the side of the road during a parade?

Ever wait in a long line of people for any thing (movie theater, ball game, amusement park, etc...)?
no I am incredibly antisocial and avoid all the mentioned situations.

[Vern Humphrey]

no I am incredibly antisocial and avoid all the mentioned situations.
And you are highly unlikely to be attacked in such situations (and can you imagine firing in such a crowd?)

You're most likely to be attacked as you leave such a situation -- that instant when you step into the Men's Room, the alley, the parking garage, etc.

[Mags]

good point Vern! Not to mention if I was being mugged with a weapon wielding perp in a crowd I would just give the robber my money the collatteral damage risk is way to high. Anybody familiar with the use of force pyramid maybe even LOAC though it is not law on our soil.

[SHusky57]

I am looking for some super durable all around sights.

Meprolight and Trijicon seem good, but the XS Express looks cool too.
For both defensive use and IPSC, day and night.
I don't really want or see the need for adjustable sights on a combat pistol, but night-time illumination and a combination of quick acquisition and accuracy are desired.

I love the trijicons on my browning hi-power but before I dress up my G21 I was curious about those XS express thingies.

[RobMoore]

Try the Warren Tactical 2 dot tritium, or the Heinie Straight 8 (same 2 dot tritium config).

They are fast to aquire, and unlike the XS sights, are actually useful when you need the sights for accurate shots.

I haven't heard of any high level shooters using XS sights, and I don't know of any major competitions won with them. They fall too close to the realm of gimmick, like those triangle sights.

[Mags]

Ever heard the saying "slow is smooth smooth is fast" I take this as if you fire slow and smooth and hit your target it sure as hell beats fast and sloppy and not hitting your target. Anyone ever notices how time stands still when your adrenaline is pumping and 2 seconds feel like forever I have practiced with my IWB draw and get sights on in lees than 2 seconds. I don't even think point shooting is an option if the threat is out side of your reach.

[ScareyH22A]

For those of you that think that XS Big Dots are NOT accurate, please stop spreading this misnomer. They definitely are not as accurate as a set of iron sights on an M16 but they're plenty accurate for any self defense use.

I have them on my fullsized pistol and can hit paper plate sized targets at 50 yards, all day long. And at that distance, a human silhouette is still visible around the edge of the dot so it's not THAT big.

They're definitely some of the quickest sights out there. Just place the big ass dot on your target and squeeze the trigger.

[BikerRN]

Sights are good. Jim Cirillo used sights in his deadly confrontations.

That right there sums it up for me.

You need to learn to see what you need to see to hit your target. Some targets will be at contact distance, but it's not inconceivable that you might have a target at 15 Yards, or even 25 Yards.

Sights are on a gun for a reason. I suggest you use them as much as you need to in order to hit what you are aiming at.

BikerRN

[ChCx2744]

"For actual Self Defense (As in carrying in public); where the threat is generally less than 20-30 feet; sites are pretty much useless."

Could you elaborate? I am 100% sure this does not apply to me. PM me for further details on my impeding/humbling experience.

[Frank Ettin]

Ever heard the saying "slow is smooth smooth is fast" I take this as if you fire slow and smooth and hit your target it sure as hell beats fast and sloppy and not hitting your target....Actually, that's not quite what it means. The idea is that if you start training to do something slowly, you will start to come to do it smoothly. And as you become smoother at doing the thing, you will become faster.

Some years ago when I was taking an auto racing class, we started out focusing on being smooth -- doing our downshifts setting up for the corner smoothly, and braking smoothly, entering the turn smoothly, exiting the turn, upshifting and getting into the throttle smoothly. And as we all got smoother we got faster, and our times kept improving.

When we teach presentation of the gun from the holster, we want the students to start out slowly to master the movements. As they do, they start to get smooth in their movements. And as they get smoother, they get faster. But when someone tries to rush straight to doing a fast draw, he hasn't begun to program the process into his body and he fumbles, makes a hash of things and is actually not very efficient or fast at it.

But then Wyatt Earp is reported to have said, "Fast is fine, but accuracy is final."