[Skunkabilly]

First 1911 was a Kimber Custom Stainless that had an untensioned extractor. I coulda fixed it myself but was too bitter about it not working and sold the gun. I was used to shooting my HK which couldn't break no matter how hard I beat it up.

Second '1911' was a KZ45 which feels completely different and I didn't shoot it well. So it didn't really count.

Now peer pressure and marketing have got me wanting another 1911. That and it's the fighting handgun of true tacticals :rolleyes: and maybe I'll rediscover love for it once I shoot it again extensively.

I like my P7M8 but the itty bitty slide stop and tiiiiiight slide make it difficult to manipulate for things like class 3 malfunctions. Cleaning the gas system can be a pain.

The Beretta is my true love but it's become something that I must send out to get the configuration I want. I'm tired of screwing with my guns and want something that's good to go out of the box. But I'm worried about having to send the 1911 in for reliability 'issues' like I had to for my first two 1911s. (extractor on 1st 1911, sear on second 1911).

I need help!

(Too bad I just sold all my mags for it :rolleyes: )

[Tropical Z]

If i had based my 1911 experience solely on the Sistema i once owned i would never have tried another one regardless of brand.Fortunately a Shooters Arms manufacturing full size 1911 practically fell into my lap and its a joy to shoot and utterly reliable at least with 230 grain FMJ which is all ill probably ever send down its barrel.Give another one a chance.;)

[MoNsTeR]

Yes you should.
But don't screw around, buy a really expensive one (and no, the KZ-45 didn't count), or send a bare frame or a basic Colt to a 'smith.

I'm sure all the Kimber and Springfield fans will crawl out of the woodwork to defend their favorite brand, and that's fine. But the fact is that a true quality 1911 makes a $6-700 gun feel like junk.

Think STI, Infinity, Triangle Shooting Sports, EGW, Brazos Custom, Briley, Pistol Dynamics, etc.

[Smoke]

Only you can answer that question.

[B27]

What MoNsTeR said.
Buy a high end gun from a company that gives great after sale service like Wilson, Baer or Brown and you will almost assuredly be happy.
My four Kimbers have all performed well but they are all older series I guns built back when Kimber was trying hard to build a reputation and impress the heck out of everybody.
This Wilson Classic two tone and this Kimber Gold Match have performed beautifully through many, many rounds fired-

http://www.fototime.com/E031B2D878266FF/standard.jpg

I carry a SIG P220 concealed every day but if I knew trouble was definitely a'comin I'd be wearing that Wilson that day.:)

[garrettwc]

Skunk, you really have to decide for yourself, but it's hard to base it on just the two examples you gave. The KZ is sort of a hybrid 1911 and as you discovered just may not work the same way.

The extractor with the Kimber isn't a big deal IMO. I had an extractor break within the first 500 rounds on my Colt. It was aggravating as all get out, but not enough for me to get rid of an otherwise wonderful gun.

While getting a top of the line 1911 such as an STI, or Wilson, or Brown will minimize your chances of having a problem, it may not give you the best perception of the 1911. I started with a basic 1911 with no add ons (the Colt). After spending several hundred rounds with it I found what I liked and what I didn't and this helped me select a 1911 that fit my needs better.

I would recommend the same. Get a basic Colt Government model, or a Springfield Mil-spec and take the money you would have spent on add ons and buy a couple of cases of ammo. Then go to the range and spend some quality time with one. Then determine what you like and don't like about them and look into possible changes.

What works for one person, may not for another. But that's the beauty of the 1911. You can change out what you don't like and tune it to you, easier on a 1911 than with any other gun.

[USGuns]

Have you seen the new Kimber Tactical line?
http://www.kimberamerica.com/tactical.php

[sm]

Its your choice. Though I have no problems with the big names, I tend to think I want the gun to fit my needs, not what someone else thinks I need. Personally , yep I get to play with really expensive toys, fins, rods doodads and doohickeys. Hey a $ 15k race gun is fun...the owner doesn't CCW one though.

Personally the more one gets away from the basic... put it this way, Give me real Gov't 1911, I'm happy. I won't change sights, I won't do anything but maybe, just maybe bob the hammer a bit, skateboard tape and assure for me the trigger is crisp , 4 # ok. If the blue is worn, fine...means I've been using it.

Give me 2 basic like this , even without much blue and Ill be estatic!

[Skunkabilly]

Yep...thinkin' about one of those as the carry and a TLE as a beater. Not sure how I'm going to mount a light on them though.

[Andrew Wyatt]

dude, seriously, get a springfield milspec. you don't need a beavertail (unless you do), or uberhuge safeties or any of that other stuff.

a milspec has a bevelled mag well, lowered ejection port, and good sights.

it costs about 600, and is parked.

[sm]

Here ya go:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43614

Made right, the way way they should still be made. You just shoot 'em, inspect and maintain. And hope you find another like it someday.

[asiparks]

Hey Skunka, I've already posted about the unnatural levels of affection I have for my Valtro, so you could go for one of them or you could post a WTB for a series 1 Kimber in OC, there's got to be some floating around out there. My '98 S1 Stainless Custom Classic has been absolutely faultless through 10K rounds and I'd jump at another one if I could get a P2P transfer. There's a whole bunch of Baers on the DOJ cert list now too. If your hands are not too small and delicate, you could try a BP10. The grip is quite different to the KZ and 14 rounders are still available should you ever be passing through Nevada.....

[22/22mag]

Hey SK, I have 2 newer kimbers .45s that shoot right on target ,but for carry without ever worry about performance ( you know the sometimes jam or stove pipe when not holding it just right) the Sig 220 .45 8 rounds with decocker is the way to go.
Sure the 1911s are fun to shoot and look great but under pressure the Sig is simple to use...point gun,pull trigger 8 times.DONE. (no cock + lock)

Down side not much needs to be done to gun so few after market $$$$$ can be spent to buy anything.Oh well.

[10-Ring]

Skunk...dude...remember not too long ago, you talked me off that ledge? I was all hot & heavy for a 1911 & you smacked some sense into me...remember?
Honestly Skunk I don't think you'll be happy w/ a production 1911. If you're gonna do it, you might as well go high end ;)

[Soap]

Get a Glock! :neener: Go with what suits you, if the 1911 didn't work out so many times in the past it is highly unlikely that it will all of a sudden work for you now. How well did you shoot your first Kimber? Not knowing your primary carry is a pain in the butt. If I were you, I would get whatever you feel confident with, like an HK USP.

[jercamp45]

Guess you know what I like to carry about!!
My 3 1991A1's worked fine outta the box and were very accurate, the 27 year old series 70 Mark VI the same.
I guess I have been lucky of the 20 or so 1911's over the last quarter of a century only one has been an unworkable lemon(AO).
I have never owned a high end model....bet they are sweet, but well beyond my budget when then Ones I have do all I need done.
And I have learned to keep it simple..my first Government got ALL the bells and whistles available in 1978!! While it a very sweet and reliable shooter......it is not my favorite anymore.
Simple high visibility sights, and make sure it is reliable. I like the new beavertail and extended thumbsafety, the tactical one of of course!!
Of course, you must decide....but I like the thinness and the big bullet, something very reasuring about it when I roam about at night. A most comforting friend to have!
Jercamp45

[Berg01]

O.K, the Glocks and Sigs are like brand new BMWs or Cadillacs, and the 1911 is like a '67 Vette Ragtop; we all know which ones win out on the reliability and practicality factors, but a lot of us feel that one wins out for sheer coolness and then some of us consider one a true classic. Be honest, each one has its place in the gun battery!

Why not consider something like a Colt Series 70 Repro Base Gun; shoot it out-of-the-box for a while, then get done to it what you want or what it might need (trigger, sights, reliability tune, or none of the above).

[DonGlock26]

Have you test drove a P-225 & P-220ST, or gone to the seedy part of town to be tempted by the dark side(G-19/17)?;)

[Ed]

I'm kinda partial to my springfield, but they have done new stuff to the newer ones. If you have the money go for the high $$$ stuff, you'll be able to get your money back if you don't like it. But to get to the point YES you should get one.

[Berg01]

Have you test drove a P-225 & P-220ST, or gone to the seedy part of town to be tempted by the dark side(G-19/17)?

Hell, I own a P228 Sig that I will never part with; I've shot a fair number of Glocks, some I've liked & some I didn't. But then I've had the chance to shoot a Colt Series 80 Gov't that Evolution Gunworks had waved its magic wand over, and let me tell you that was a shooter you could wet your sneakers over!

[CWL]

Get TWO base models (like Springfield), shoot one stock and slowly build up the other one. You'll be able to add carbon fiber grips, internal works, etc. as $$ and ideas become available, while you still have a reliable shooter for practice & carry.

2 base guns still won't come close to the costs of a semi-custom -which may not even be configured exactly the way you really want yours to be.

[Blueduck]

Now peer pressure and marketing have got me wanting another 1911. That and it's the fighting handgun of true tacticals :rolleyes: and maybe I'll rediscover love for it once I shoot it again extensively.

I've always enjoyed your post Skunk, even visited your website. Your obviously an intellegent well rounded person so please don't take offense at this, but that has got to be THE dumbest reason to spend $2,500 on custom gun I've ever heard.

You've had two, they didn't float your boat (be honest if you really LOVED the Kimber one extractor problem would not have made you sell it now would it??). Step away from the ledge and move on. You mention your love of the Beretta, but the hassals of custom work. How many of your Burritos could you set up exactly the way you want for the price of one high end 1911...

PS John Moses Browning accidently invented Carbon Fiber but hated it so much he buried the formula deep in the desert sands from fear that someday someone would make a grip of it for his 1911. He also considered banjo music to be the work of the devil. If that don't get you over it nothing will ;)

[Schuey2002]

Buy one,
Shoot the heck out of it,
Sing its praises,
Post Tactically- :cool: pics,
Find faults with it,
Post problems on THR, 1911forums,.. etc.,
Sell it,
Buy something else,
Repeat this process until you reach a state of Gun Nirvana, or when you've moved to a State of the Union, whichever comes first.


:D :p :uhoh: :uhoh:

[LeonCarr]

Read the signature, and use the money you save buying a 1911, and the money you save shipping it all over hell's half acre to get it to run right, to buy lots and lots of ammo. I think that is much more tactical than having a gun that looks cool and doesn't run :).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[Skunkabilly]

:D :D :D :evil: Schuey, LOL!!!

Not that I've ever done THAT before! :uhoh:

High end is $1000. Must come with night sights. Light rail preferable but not a requirement. External extractor a strong plus. Looking at the Kimber :rolleyes:....Tactical.

I better sleep it off.

[cool45auto]

I own a Ruger KP97DC but want to go the 1911 route myself. I want one of the Kimbers like the ones L.A. SWAT use.

[Dave Markowitz]

Have you considered a Browning High Power?

Classy, reliable, quite compact, cheap good high caps easily available.

[Gerald McDonald]

For what you want, I dont think a 1911 is the answer. For me, the only autos I own are 1911's or BHP's, but they arent for everybody.

[uglymofo]

Skunk,

I'm a 1911 diehard, but from your first post about the Kimber and KZ45, and a $1000 limit, I'd say go with something else. You've given it two whacks and come up empty. You know for sure the double-stacks aren't your preference, and you say that the "calling" is more marketing and peer pressure than appeal.

You don't say how the Kimber felt to you, just that you were displeased with its' reliability. Kimber's junk next to Wilsons, Browns, and Baers (even I'll have to admit that last, in spite of my own Baer experience), but the problem you'll face satisfying your curiousity will cost you at least $300 more than your limit if you wanna go 1911 and find out 'new'. If you're wrong, and have to sell again, you'll take a bath. If it's the mechanics you like, have you handled a BHP?

Borrow some 1911's at the range, and see if the bug bites, or if it's just marketing hype and 'absence making the heart grow fonder'.

[sm]

BHP is another good choice.
Classics that have beenused world over by those in the know...but these one doesn't normally doodad up.
Look at Stephen Camp...read his site-again...he carried as a LEO, and he can definitley shoot one pretty much box stock.

CRSam is waiting for Skunk to get is first wheelgun...gonna whack his knuckles at the first mention of light rails on a mod 19 too...:)

[Frohickey]

Its really up to you. Remember, every time you change your mind, you lose a little bit of $$$ in the sale, unless you happen to sell it to a person that does not know gun prices.

Since you like the Beretta, should you just get another one instead? Would be nice to have duplicates of one. No need to get new magazines, new holsters, etc. Something to be said about commonality of parts.

As to 1911s, I would get the higher end ones, and that does not mean Kimber. :uhoh:
Wilson, LesBaer, Valtro. Get the 1911, the way it was designed by JMB. Not the Kimber series II schwartz safety that could not go bang. Springfields are not high end either, but they are better than Kimbers, you can replace the backstrap to get rid of the stupid Kaliforny-gunlock.

[Dave T]

I read this post when there were only one or two replies. When I came back and saw you were on the second page, I gave it some more thought.

First I tried to remember how many 1911s I've had, then how many between my wife and I. I can't remember all of them, it started in 1974, but it's been two dozen if not more. Colts, Kimber's, a couple Remington-Rands, a Caspian, and two Wilsons. Some were stock, some were customized. Some were new, some were used.

In all of that collection I can remember one gun, a Series 70 Combat Government Model that functioned OK but just would not shoot. I mean that thing wouldn't keep five shots on the 6X6 inch head of a IPSC silhouette at 25 yards. I finally had a "good" gunsmith look at it and learned the locking lugs in the slide hadn't been cut properly. The barrel would lock up differently every time. A very tired, abused, neglected WWII relic we had that rattled like a bucket of bolts shot better than the Combat Government.

Starting last January my wife and I have purchased 4 Kimbers. One, a Compact Stainless Aluminum has the same untentioned extractor the starter of this thread talked about. I'm still waiting for the gun to malfunction.

In all those years, and with all those 1911s, I can't believe my wife and I are just lucky. We have had nothing but success with the model and its caliber. The few "problems" we have had were usually traced to ammo, magazines, weak springs, or just a dirty gun from firing hundreds of rounds of cast bullet reloads. All problems which were easily addressed by me, i.e. better ammo, better magazines, new springs and good maintenance.

The internet gun boards are full of tales of "breaking in" your 1911, or putting a good gunsmith on retainer to get it running and keep it running. That has just not been my experience or the experience of most of the people I know.

Maybe this is proof of the alternate universe theories. There's the universe I live in where 1911s work, the alternate universe you guys live in where they don't. I can't explain it any better than that.

[uglymofo]

I'm with DaveT on this. I've had about 15 1911's pass through my hands in the last 25 years; I've kept maybe 9 of them. I can only think of two that gave me FTF problems, and one of those two also FTE'd. Both guns were remedied after the usual minor "port and polish". I've only sold one gun out of disappointment, a Baer PII (for those have to take issue with that, search my username over at TFL and here for specifics.)

I've heard and read plenty of stories about having to tweak this and 'smith that to get 1911's to run dependably. In almost all cases, those contortions haven't been my experience either.

[Andrew Wyatt]

okay. I'm confused. why are you selling your P7?

once it's fixed, it's fixed. get extra parts and if it breaks again, you can fix it.


selling it is stupid, IMHO.

[Bren]

You don't need to buy a high end 1911 to have a totally reliable and accurate gun. The extractor take 5 minutes to tune and you can do it right there at the range.

I say "NO", stick with guns disigned for the simple minded and hope that it never malfunctions. :D Try a Glock or Sig . Bren

[tex_n_cal]

You're selling your P7? You do realize, should you ever want to replace it, you'll have to live with a garish warning on the slide?:barf:

Buy a new Colt. Many come with barstock extractors, which eliminates the MIM thing. Get nite sights. You're still well under a grand.

[sm]

edit, nevermind...it's all being said...been so before.

[Rob96]

Truth be told, you don't need a 1911 with all that fancy crap on it. A bone stock mil-spec Colt or Springer will serve most shooters/carriers just fine. If you want night sights talk to different pistolsmiths and see what they use, then you can pick what you want, and not what the factory installs.

[LFW]

I've never gotten into the 1911 craze, probably because I formed my gun prejudices before Cooper began his 1911 hype. I usually have at least one 1911 laying around though, and think they are an okay gun. I only buy stock models with no doo-dads such as beavertails, giant thumb safeties, etc, then I only fire hardball ammo through them. Have few problems. Currently have one of the new roll marked Colt Commanders. It only set me back about $550, and I couldn't be happier with it.--Leigh

[Tamara]

Have eight 1911's currently.

Each and every one, except for the goofy little Detonics (which I bought knowing that it was going to be troublesome), has been 100%.

That said, they are more cantankerous on average out of the box. Have owned a few, especially back in the '80s, that were less than reliable with anything other than ball or Silvertips. If somebody plunked a $100 bill on the counter at work, handed me a box of one hundred assorted hollowpoints in .45 ACP, and told me I could keep the money if I could pick one new, unfired handgun and run all one hundred rounds without a malf, I'd walk right past the showcase with the 1911's. I'd walk right past the case with the Identical Drone Pistols, too, and go down to the one that has the new S&W 625 in it and ask "Do I get to use moonclips?" ;) :p

[Tamara]

Read the signature,

Yeah, I get my gun-buying advice from imaginary US Marshals played by anti-gun hollywood superstars. :rolleyes:

[antediluvianist]

The 1911 is a reletively primitive weapon, much improved upon by other designs since it came out. For that matter, Browning himself improved upon the design with his High Power .

Ditch the dog. Get a CZ-97B, or , as suggested above, SIG etc..

Some time in the future, you may wish to buy a 1911 just to round out your collection, or for "nostalgia". But enjoy a better gun meanwhile.

OK, all you 1911 macho historians, let's hear your praises for the inferior gun.

[Tamara]

That's me all right: "macho 1911 historian." :rolleyes: *snicker*

So, antediluvianist, which 1911's did you have such a poor experience with?

[jercamp45]

We do not defend...we educate.

Did the FBI HRT, Marine Recon, LAPD SWAT, Delta Force chose SIGS or CZ's AFTER exhaustive testing?
Ooops, no, they chose something else
:what: .

Have the Sigs and CZ won trophy after trophy in Bullseye and Practical competition?

Don't think so.:banghead:

Yes...they are very nice sidearms...they work well and are accurate.

Pretty danged BIG too:neener:

What you call excuses, we call valuable experience:evil:

Jercamp45

[RTFM]

In my opinion, NO to the 1911.
But YES to the 45ACP

Sig P220 Stainless with Rail.

RTFM

[Skunkabilly]

Coupla things.

1. NOOOOO smiths. I'll only send a gun in to either the factory or someone who is endorsed by pretty much everyone in the camp, like Ernest Langdon. Hence the coming with night sights.

2. I did very well with my Kimber. I was disgusted with the reliability, which retrospect wasn't THAT bad, but I expected more (at the time) from a pistol. I wasn't as fast as with my Beretta, but shot it pretty well.

btw I was tongue in cheek about the marketing and peer pressure thing ;) though good photography has a way of getting to me :o

[Rebel Gunman HK]

I own 2 Loaded Springfields and they work just fine with McCormick mags. I think 1911's are very attractive and dont consider them primitive. I own An Hk, a Ruger, and now a Beretta and I consider my 1911's just as good. If you like the 1911 at all I say buy another one. My first one took a little time to grow on me and now I love the way it feels.

[Andrew Wyatt]

OK, all you 1911 macho historians, let's hear your praises for the inferior gun.

it fits my hand and has a better trigger than anything you can show me.

[LeonCarr]

Hey Tamara,

Sure, Sam Gerard is imaginary, but he still carries the best gun :). My gun buying advice comes from carrying a Glock for a living almost everyday since June 15, 1995. It also comes from shooting 21,000 rounds through three Glocks, with zero malfunctions.

By the way, it isn't everyday a pretty girl talks about one of my posts ;).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[Correia]

antediluvianist,

Thanks for the advice, but since I shoot my inferior, outdated, obsolete 1911s in 3 gun or IDPA matches every month, going through hundreds of rounds every weekend, with no problem whatsoever I'll just have to go with my own personal experience. Thanks for the advice though. :)

Skunk, only you can decide what gun is best for you.

[MoNsTeR]

If you want night sights (and why on earth would you?) on a decent 1911 under $1000 new, you have exactly one choice:
STI Trojan

And hey, the trigger bow is carbon fiber :neener:

Personally I think you should go for it. BUT, there's a ready-made argument for why you shouldn't. The 1911's principal advantages are its trigger and its ergonomics. The Langdon trigger on your Beretta probably has you spoiled you on the trigger issue, and the ergonomics either work for you or they don't. So if you don't need to go to the 1911 for those advantages (like I do), then you shouldn't feel compelled to. Just get a $300 Sistema for the sake of a complete collection and call it a day.

[Skunkabilly]

Monster, could you please post a pic of the trigger? :o

I want one of those Kimber Tacticals but they don't have light rails for them. Going to talk to Surefire re mounting solutions.

[MoNsTeR]

http://www.stiguns.com/cgi-bin/miva?Merchant2/merchant.mv+Screen=PROD&Store_Code=STIGUNS&Product_Code=TRIG-1911&Category_Code=COMP

That page says "glass filled nylon", but I've seen it listed as carbon fiber elsewhere. Either way, it's not exactly flashy like a pair of grips.

(Psst, the metal part is titanium! ;) )

[tex_n_cal]

OK, all you 1911 macho historians, let's hear your praises for the inferior gun.

Okay, let me take a moment away from photographing flowers and cats and be macho...

With a 1911 in .45ACP, or in .38 Super, I can (when I am in practice) keep all shots(first to last) accurately aimed with good effect, firing as fast as I can pull the trigger. I can almost do the same with a 10mm, but have to slow down a little due to the greater recoil. I can also do it with a Browning Hi Power(only with difficulty, due to the trigger reset) but not with any other semi-auto pistol. With any other semi-auto system, or a revolver, some of the shots are straying.

Yes, I know Jerry Miculek can outshoot me with his Smith, and someone else can probably do it with a P220ST. Most other people do best with a 1911, however. Tough to call it inferior when it outperforms the competition.

My Springfield Mil-spec .38 Super has never jammed, not with light .38ACP ammo, not with fire breathing 9x23's, not with any .38 Super.

My Series 80 Gold Cup has never jammed. My Stainless Colt 1991A1 has never jammed. My old 1991A1 has never jammed, unless I was doing something silly, like loading .400 Corbons in it.

My 10mm Delta Elite was made in the bad old days of 1987 - yet give it magazines with strong springs, like Colt or CMC, it doesn't jam, not even with its new uber-tight Bar-sto barrel.

My Defender is particular about ammo. Since it is flawless with my handloads, I really can't get too offended:D

My 9mm Commander is a little fussy, needs some more work. It is entitled, it began life as a .45 Commander.

Don't get me wrong - I like the SIG's, the P7, the BHP, and some others. I have seen 1911's that didn't run - usually because they had verifiable defects, or because someone built them too tight, trying to wring every last smidgeon of accuracy out of them. As an all-around sport shooting/CQB weapon, however, the 1911 has earned my faith in it, especially when marked with little prancing ponies on the side.

[Tamara]

My gun buying advice comes from carrying a Glock for a living almost everyday since June 15, 1995. It also comes from shooting 21,000 rounds through three Glocks,

Oh, I've had nine Glocks since '93 myself (3 G23's, 2 G23C's, 2 G33's, a G29 and a G30). Every one of 'em ran like a top. :) So did all my SIGs, every Beretta and HK I've owned, all my current 1911's... :)

"Reliability" is the baseline criteria; where do we go from there? ;)

[LeonCarr]

Tamara,

Here is the story. I just flat out have had problems over the years with 1911s. Accuracy was never a problem, shootability was never a problem (the slide on a 1911 cycles in 4/100 of a second). Reliability was always a problem. Even with competent APG member gunsmiths (I know one whose children are attending Texas A&M University because of me, I guarantee it :) ), the best parts, the best ammo, the best magazines, and a very overstressed Visa card, 1911s have never run right for me. They may be the cats meow for some folks, but when somebody wants to buy one, I tend to be outspoken. I tend to quote Obi-Wan Kenobi and say "Use the force Luke. Don't be seduced by the Dark Side". Maybe for the rest of the planet, they are good guns. For me, owning a Glock, that will run on any kind of ammo, in any kind of conditions, without having to buy special magazines, and will shoot more accurately than most out of the box 1911s (semi-custom type guns excluded) is a good thing. Is the Glock the perfect gun? No. Is it perfect for me? Yes. I have owned the other name brand type guns (sig, beretta, etc.) and they have been great performers, but they aren't Glocks :).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[pingwax]

I used to shoot a GI 1911 (springfield issued). It worked pretty good, although it wasn't very accurate. Unfortunately though, it wasn't mine and when the owner left, so did it.

When I could, I bought a Springfield 1911 Milspec. It cost about $425

Let me say first, I like this gun. It has the cool factor. It is about as close to the GI pistol you can buy new, so it has some cool background.

The problem is, it doesn't work very well. It has a lot of failure to feed issues with every type of ammo I have used. Replacing the magazine with a wilson combat didn't even change how often it happens. I will not have the gun physically modified. If I had wanted something that had been cut on, I would have bought something else. I suspect that my problem is with the extractor and I have ordered a replacement, so we'll see.

But if it takes >$1k to get a gun that will make $6-700 gun seem like crap, screw that.

I bought a Sig P220ST for about $725 out the door. I'm adding meprolights, which will be about $70. Obviously they are very different guns, maybe its an apple to oranges kind of comparison.

The thing with the Sig is that the very first time I shot it, I only made one hole in the paper; I had never done that before. I have put about 2500 rounds through it with out any failures; I've never done that before either.

It is a mechanically simple, easy to shoot, easy to maintain, good looking gun that is also very popular with law enforcement agencies (if that matters to you at all).

For the cost of a $1300 gun I bought the sig, night sights, about 2000 rounds of ammo and a gun club membership. Can't beat that with a stick.

[sanchezero]

I'll agree with a coupla others: check out a Hipower. I was never a fan; thought they were ugly and old skul :barf: .

Then I got to shoot one. Mmmmmm :) . They're not significantly larger than a 1911 with std grips. Certainly more svelte than that Eyetalian Hog you love so much.

You can pick up an FEG or an FM for cheap and send it out for a little work then buy a coupla full cap mags and still be cheaper than a 'quality' 1911.

http://tenring.com/HighPower2.JPG

This one is from tenring with their $495 BHP package. I love the beavertail on a BHP.

:cool:

[Dave T]

...1911s have never run right for me.

Leon,

See, you live in that alternate universe from the one I'm in.

I find it facinating how one person's experience can be so radically different from another's. And don't think I'm saying you are wrong. Just 180 degrees away from me.

As an example: my sister, who was 57 years old at the time and a nursing administrator rather than an athlete, moved to Arizona and got a CCW permit. Her preferred carry weapon was a 1991A1 Commander. It was absolutely stock and she put between 2000 and 3000 rounds through it in practice without a single malfunction.

Because of the weight she wanted a lighter gun and since my wife and I were carrying Glocks then, sis got a Glock 23. For the most part it was reliable but she occasionally had mis-fires with my handloads (as I did with my G30). She never shot it as well as the Commander and about 6 months ago got another Commander. She is about to pick up a Lt Wt Officer's ACP for purse carry. Guess what? The new Commander hasn't malfunctioned and I don't expect the Officer's to either.

See what I mean...alternate universes.

[45Badger]

Yes, you need one.

[45R]

Give that 1911 another chance. Go with the Kimber again since you didnt have any problems shooting the first one. The newer Kimbers have an external extractor.

[LeonCarr]

Dave T,

Maybe if I get me a tricked out Delorean with a flux capacitor and a Mr. Fusion Home Energy Reactor, I can get back to the future to that alternate universe where a 1911 will work for me :).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[Erik]

Having just begun to convert a couple of shooters accustomed to supposedly more reliable brands with mediocre trigger pulls to the cult of 1911 I say "yes, you should give the 1911 another try."

[BluesBear]

I am pleased to be living in the same universe as Dave T.

I have owned over a dozen 1911 style pistols in my life.
Akk have either been genuine Colts or actual honest to gosh military 1911A1s with the exception of 2 Auto Ordinance models.

Many of these had their feed ramps polished with a craytex wheel in my Dremel. Other than that I have done nothing except regular maintenance and spring replacements to keep all of them up and running.

The only malfunctions I have had in any of those could be traced to either:

1) bad magazines - (most common)
2) bad ammunition - (it happens especially with laquered steel cases)
3) bad springs - (I now replace almost all of the springs on any used automatic I buy)

My brothers Frankengun built on an Olympic arms frame with an unknown BROWN slide went over 3000 rounds with NO malfunctions.
The same can be said for my cousin's 1991A1 Officers ACP. R-e-l-i-a-b-l-e.

I have owned and/or shot 1911s that wouldn't hit the side of a barn from the inside but they always fed, fired and ejected. The biggest total investment I have ever had in a 1911 style 45 is about $650.00 and $100 of that was personal preference items.

So I just don't understand what all of the fuss is about.
But then I have never suffered from Hammer Bite either. :rolleyes:

The only two guns I have ever owned that actualy had regular malfunctions were the Nazi era JP Sauer 38H that my father brought back from Berlin in 1945 and the first American made Walther PPKs I ever saw. (I ordered it and waited 6 months to get it.)

The Sauer would FTF every other magazine full (with either magazine) and the Walther rarely made it through one. A new extractor fixed the problem in the Walther and from then on it was great. As for the Sauer I sold it for WAYYYY too much money.

But then again my S&W 59-2 was dead reliable also and we all know what dogs they supposedly were.

The worst functioning gun I ever owned was a Ruger 10-22.

Go figure.


Just my tuppence. YMMV

[BluesBear]

antediluvianist boasted,
The 1911 is a reletively primitive weapon...
The Knife is an ANCIENT weapon/tool but how many of us carry and/or use one every single day?
:rolleyes:

As for me I ain't worried. I use my relatively primitive weapon for self defense against relatively primitive creatures.
:neener:

[marauder220]

Skunk,

If you are looking for a 1911 with light rails, check out the Kimber TLE\RL II. It is like the LAPD civilian setup, except with an external extractor and the light mount on the dust cover. I picked one up about a month ago, so far 2,000rnds without any glitches at all. Due to my past experience, I will not be buying many more 1911's, but this one has made me happy thus far. I've had terrible luck with properly tensioned internal 1911 extractors, but so far great luck with the external ones.

[Skunkabilly]

Marauder I feel the same way about external extractors. I'm still undecided as to the weapon mounted light...not sure if I really want one or not.

[sm]

Another one here in that other universe.
I WANT the internal extractor.
In fact I really am comfortable without a lowered and flared ejection...proper tensioned internal extractor,which is no big deal, you don't need it.

I mean its only a pistol If I could find a concealed method for a 12 ga I'd be happier.

Our own Sage Tamara put it best:

The faster most folks realize that all guns suck, the happier they'll be.

[The Silver Bullet 1719]

No, you don't seem too entusiastic about giving the 1911 ANOTHER try. Since you like Berettas, why not a Sig or CZ since they use the same DA/SA operation? In the end, just go with what tickles your fancy.

[kalibear45]

What marauder220 said...

I've seen the Kimber TLE RL II for $799 @ Guns America. I would buy 2 of them before I buy a Wilson and its a clear winner over the SW1911.

C'mon Skunk join the bandwagon! :evil:

[Keith]

I've owned a whole bunch of 1911's over the years from a $169 Sistema, to Colts, Kimbers to Frankenstein race guns. All of them were reliable right out of the box (or rusty "bin" in the case of that Sistema). And they've been in various sizes, from compact on up.

SOME of these older guns would choke on various hollowpoints and the solution to that was to polish the lip of the chamber with a dremel - that took about 15 minutes...
Tip: If you want to know if your gun will feed ANYTHING, try some of those Blazer hollowpoints with the Ford Edsel feed profile. If they feed those, they'll feed anything!
Various 1911's have just choked period, and the solution to that was to throw away whatever crap magazine caused the problem. I've gotten a few great deals over the years from people who had "unreliable" 1911's. I bought the guns cheap, replaced the junk magazine causing the problem and had a great gun!

Keith

[tlhelmer]

Everytime I try the 1911 I get bit. The first time it was a Springfield Armory 1911A1 Loaded. I couldnt run a full mag without FTF's. The second was a heavily customized 1911A1 that had a problem with the sear. The guns hammer would follow the slide and it would discharge. Had it fixed and sold it.

The 1911 mystique still calls me every once and a while, but i remember the lesson of the past. In all honesty with my record I will probabaly try the 1911 again, but it never seems to work for me.

I have seen expensive 1911's jam in IDPA competitions while those 500.00 Glocks, Sigs, and H&K's just keep on chugging away.

[Erik Jensen]

geez, skunk. find a GI 1911A1 in decent, bone-stock shape, and call it done.

or, if the thickness of the 92 is the problem, partake of a Beretta 92 compact L type M. hell, go get Mastrogiacomo's.. heh

[10-Ring]

Skunk, have you gotten enough to rationalize your 1911 purchase, yet? :evil:

[Skunkabilly]

I went to the gun shoppe today and saw the Kimber Tactical.

The alum fram models still have a good heft to them which is nice. I like everything on it but am undecided on the mag well. I think I'm leaning against the light rail model TLE even though I heard they just got approved in California.

I figure even if I have two handgun systems (Beretta and 1911) that's ok as I can switch between them since I'm so fickle anyway :)

Maybe I'll order one. Neat gun.

[Kruzr]

The alum fram models still have a good heft to them which is nice. I like everything on it but am undecided on the mag well. I think I'm leaning against the light rail model TLE even though I heard they just got approved in California.

Changing out the MSH/Magwell is no big deal. If its the Kimber 2-part one, its even easier to take off the funnel. Don't let that stop you. What about the CDP?

[Denny Hansen]

Brad Nelson over at Lightfighter is taking orders to have a few guns made by Kimber which will be extremely close (as close as possible) to the new MEU(SOC) Interim CQB pistol recently adapted by Det including the Dawson rail. If you've got the extra cash, this is one very good 1911.

Denny

[Hot brass]

Skunk, I too went through the what to get, in a 1911. I settled on a Springfield mil-spec. Tight as all get out. Accurate too. I had a tail, sights, trigger, and throated all dodne to this pistol .Did it need it? No. I went for astetics. Years later I wanted a factory gun with these features. I bought a Para P14 Limited. I am happy with both guns. Talk to someone with the gun you like, go the range and shoot the said guns and make a choice. I did and I am happy.

[tex_n_cal]

If you don't need a light rail, and want night sights, the Kimber CDP is also a choice. You can choose between full size, Commander size, and Officer's size (to borrow Colt terminology). My brother has three Series II Kimbers and thinks they're great - they appear to work fine for him.

I still think a Colt 1991A1 with added night sites will get you hooked on Ponies.:D

[Gunslinger45]

So Skunkabilly this is where you've been hiding. We've missed you at the IDR.

By all means try another 1911. I'm sorry to hear about your bad experiences with your 1911's, especially the Kimber. I've had little to no trouble with mine. But it's my experience that I have to have some modifications done to any 1911 before it fits my hand and shoots the way I want it too. That's one reason I went with Kimber. The gun had most of the mods I wanted on a 1911 at a price I could live with. Plus I added a few of my own. Now I wouldn't trade mine for any other type of handgun.

But I have a special reason for liking the 1911. With the geometry and size of my hands it is the only auto that I can hold and shoot well, after the addition of slim grips and a mid-length trigger (or with standard grips and a short trigger). The only mechanism I can't reach without altering my grip is the mag release (but this is true for me with all autos).

But give John Browning's gun another try. I'm sure that if you are patient you'll learn to love it.

[Andrew Wyatt]

Brad Nelson over at Lightfighter is taking orders to have a few guns made by Kimber which will be extremely close (as close as possible) to the new MEU(SOC) Interim CQB pistol recently adapted by Det including the Dawson rail. If you've got the extra cash, this is one very good 1911.

I've been told quite forcefully by Pat Rogers the MCLMM pistol is not kosher in california.

[Will Fennell]

Get another 1911.....NO handgun lets you delivery major caliber precision hits, 0-to 50 yards , as fast as a properly set up 1911. NOTHING.

Either pony up and get a WISLON CQB, or do what you probally want to do....

Get either a new COLT 5" gun[prefered] or a Springfield Mil-spec, and send it to somebody like EGW for a basic package like this.....

http://www.egw-guns.com/egw.htm

The TACTICAL carry package, $400 and you get everything you need. Mainly, the assurance that a master gunsmith has had his grubby fingers on the internals of your pistol, to ensure it runs, it has a good trigger, and it shoots where its aimed. Aimed with good sights.

Oh yeah, don't forget the CARBON FIBER GRIPS:rolleyes:

[Rich357]

Hi Skunk,

As many others have suggested, the SIG P220ST is outstanding. SIGS are highly reliable righ out of the box. The P22ST makes shooting tight groups easy.

That said, I understand the "need" for a tactical 1911. I love the feel of the Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special. But, I look at buying any 1911 as a project. I expect that I will need to send it back tweeking. I'll be sending my TRS back to L.B. to make the thumb safety a little stiffer. Other than than it shoots great.

If you can find one, or don't mind a relatively long wait, the Valtro is a beautifully made pistol.

Good luck,
Rich

[Skunkabilly]

Denny, like Andrew said, no MCLMMs in California. Alpha mike foxtrot, Governor Davis :barf:

CDP...looked at one today...kind of a neat setup, but it doesn't have my name on it like the 'Kimber TACTICAL' does. On the other hand...if it were called the 'CDI'..... :D

I think I like the feel of the alum guns. I know it's not the way God and JMB intended it, but I like the external extractor and night sights.

[Andrew Wyatt]

I'm not sure why they're not kosher in california, as they only need to be listed for 100 dollars, not retested, as kimber already makes a gun with the same safety systems.

[Denny Hansen]

Sorry, should have remembered where you reside:(

[care-less]

Skunkability, the one thing you did say was "tired of screwing with my guns, I want something thats good to go, out of the box" Well my friend, I too love the P7M8, and it is "good to go" out of the box; but yes the drills can be a hassle with it. My suggestion would be: Browning HP, Glock, XD, and HK USPc. They are all "good to go", reliable as any gun can be; and at least three of them you won't mind tossing around. Hell, get em all and have fun!