[Anthony]

Hello Everyone,

I just stumbled across a firm called Village Metalworks at...

http://www.villagemetalworks.com/

They are offering what appear to be Jim Cirillo's original bullet design in several calibers...both in loaded ammunition and bare bullets. Also, they are offering gunsmithing services for converting revolvers into hybrid weapons similar to the one Cirillo advocates in his last book.

I've never heard of this firm.

Is anyone else familar with it?

If yes, are they reputable and how is the quality of their gunsmithing?

Thanks for the input.

[Anthony]

Come on...no one knows who these guys are?

Does anyone know who might know?

[MrAcheson]

These bullets have come up before. Try a search on "Jim Cirillo bullets" or something similar and you might find some commentary. Don't know if anyone has talked about the gunsmithing aspect of their services though.

[Anthony]

Thanks for the lead.

Any other opinions or input?

[Avery Goodschott]

I've seen "Fuzzy" post over at AmmoLab and have seen some positive comments there.

If you've been to his website, you're ahead of most.

[Newton]

I did once come across some testing on Cirillo's strange slotted wadcutters and IIRC they performed ust like regular wadcutters, i.e. fairly dismally.

David DeFabio (Ammolab) calls them the absolute best .38 Spl load out there, but I'm not sure why, I'm also not sure how a street cop gets to be a design engineer by virtue of shooting people.

I'll stick with my 110 grain +P Corbons.

[George Hill]

These cats are taking Wadcutters... cutting a single slot in them... and making like this stuff is Da'Bomb.

I think my "unimpressed" meter just pegged and my interest meter just flatlined.

[M58]

Jim had experience and a theory about head-shots.
He is a much better shot than me.

In my three duty encounters, I was lucky to make body shoots.

An aggresive hollow point design (sharp edge) should work just fine.

You have to hit first....

[Newton]

I would think a head shot with any type of .38 Spl would be equally effective, I don't really see the connection with a slotted wadcutter.

Perhaps Cirillo's next evolutionary step will be a Phillips head wadcutter, designed to make extraction during autopsy more straightforward :rolleyes:

[M58]

Jim said that during autopsies he noted that the RN .38s skimmed around the bone structure. The sharp edge on wadcutters did not. I have no idea where the slot came from.

My solution in the late 60's was the then new .41 mag. M58.
Just the year before Bill had been pushing the M19.:p


NOTE: I am not supporting this ammo.
Just explanning the part I know about it.

If you want a design that really "grabs" get a pin buster slug design.
A little like the cuts on a MagSafe, but a solid center.

[Kestrel]

Those wadcutters are also awfully expensive for that slice in them.

[George Hill]

Perhaps Cirillo's next evolutionary step will be a Phillips head wadcutter, designed to make extraction during autopsy more straightforward.
http://www.madogre.com/images/laugh.gif
That was funny...
It would go well with the bullet's I've seen that looked like the head of a Philips screwdriver. I saw the guy that "invented" it... it was at SHOT and he slapped that bullet down in front of Jeff Cooper to get his take on it.
Jeff's response:
:rolleyes:

Now you can buy these from the cats that make those Action Movie full page ads... what are they called "Extreme Shok" ammunition as used by the Super-Uber-Elite Operators in B-Movies World Wide!

Jim Cirillo: This guy was really one of the Been there and Done that cats that you should listen to. However it should be noted that when he was there and doing that, LRN slugs were the norm. They didn't have the JHP options like what we have now... so in his day - these slugs probably did offer something that was an advatage. Think about that for a second... It's easy to laugh, but the guy there and then took his ammo a step forward.
I'm just not impressed with this company offering it like it was little Excalibers. We have come a long way since then in bullet design.

Props to Jim Cirillo.

[sgt127]

I believe the rounds biggest selling point is the fact that it is dead soft lead and then copper plated. It will upset or expand on almost anything. The slot just helps it get started. The original .41 mag 210 GR police load was also dead soft lead. After 50 rounds, you couldn't see the rifling in the barrel because of all the lead. Remeber, this was from an era when the best NYPD cops could hope for was the 158 GR lead RN. I would guess anything other than that was a giant leap forward in ballistics...