[matsaleh]

Just saw a Kel-tec P-40 over at my neighborhood pawn shop. Dealer wants $199 for it. It's in good condition, blued. I didn't ask if the price was firm.

Questions:

1) What is a fair price for such a gun? I know they were discontinued by KT some time ago.

2) I'm looking for a CCW .40 or .45 for not a huge amount of money. Is this a good choice?

3) I know this is not a target piece, but I don't want be punished every time I take it to the range. Will the punch of .40 S&W in this little package be too brutal to enjoy shooting? I've heard the reason that KT discontinued the line is because most customers couldn't hack the recoil. I'm not usually recoil sensitive (the only gun that has made me flinch was a DE .44 Mag, and it was the first handgun I had fired in 15 years).

4) Are their mods or accessories that will tame excessive recoil in this gun? Hogue handall grips and the KT magazine extension come to mind.

5) Trigger on this one is pretty stiff, with a significant ramp up just prior to breaking. Feels like a P-11 I tried a while ago, only more pronounced. Any mods to address this?

Thanks!

[mrapathy2000]

go for it they usually go for $250-$300 in very good to excellent condition.

the best thing to tame the recoil is a glove and low grain round ie federal hydra shock 135gr and a low power 155gr. try to avoid the heavy recoil 180gr and the hot 135gr and 155gr which do 1300fps and 1200fps.

if you dont like .40S&W you can get a barrel for .357sig most people say the recoil is bit nicer with .357sig. might be able to get a p11 slide and barrel for it. 9mm works in the magazines np.

magazines are availible at reasonable prices $16-$20-25.

kel-tec has great warranty service.

you could probably make $50-$100 off of it if its good enough condition.

[DougB]

If I were you, I'd try very hard to get an opportunity to try it out first or get return privileges. I have a P-40 and a P11 (same gun, but in 9mm). My P11 works fine. I've never been able to get my P-40 to be reliable. Sometimes I get through a full magazine without a stoppage, but not often. I've tried numerous ammo brands in various bullet weights and configurations. I've polished the feed ramp (bullets often jam on the feed ramp). I've sent it back to Kel-tec. They were nice about it, did something - I don't recall what - and it was a little more reliable afterward. But it still rarely gets through a magazine without a jam, so now it just sits in my safe. I may see if I can get them to swap me a .357 SIG barrel for the .40 - I've heard that the bottle necked .357 SIG feeds better.

You'll hear that the problem is limp wristing. Maybe so. I own and shoot many other handguns, including some light, powerful semi-automatics. I haven't had this problem with any of them. Also, the gun jams fairly often when loading the first round (insert magazine, retract slide fully, release slide, round jams on feed ramp). Even when it does load properly, there is often a perceptible hesitation as the round nearly catches on the feed ramp before going on into the chamber.

I'd really like to get mine to work - maybe I'll work on it again some time - but after all the time I've already put into it, its tough to get motivated to try it again. I think Kel-tec quit making the P-40 because my situation isn't uncommon - though I understand that some have had good luck with them (if you are one of those people, I'd be interested in hearing what ammo you use and what, if any, work you've done on your P-40).

Doug

[Walt Sherrill]

DoubB:

Its probably a dumb question, since you have two of them, but have you talked with the folks on the KTOG forum? (www.ktog.ORG)

{URL corrected... Sorry!}

I remember when they first came out there were a lot of problems with the feed ramp, and a forum member came up with a fix. That may NOT be the problem cause your guns issues, but a lot of folks there got them shooting right.

(I had a P-11 at the time; it was a very good, very reliable gun; I sent moved on to a Star Firestar Plus, and now a CZ-75B Compact.)

[BamBam]

The KTOG site has been down for a week or so.
I will say that a P-40 wouldn't last five minutes on the KTOG for sale board at that price. If it wont run properly, you could get your money out of it. There are people on that board that who would buy it even if it doesn't run 100%.

[mrapathy2000]

early p40 mags are known for not working well. they dont bring the nose of the round being fed high enough. needs some adjustment around feed lips.

I would look at mag maybe send it in to kel-tec. I have not heard any issues of .357sig feeding poorly. though not many people seem to have it and post.

best to my knowledge the ktog message board is down.

[pistolwhipped]

You better try ktog.org or you will get some knitting circle of soccer moms.:cuss:

[pistolwhipped]

And to the original questions.
I think I bought mine new for about 230.oo.
It will be worth the money if it works.
It has ample kick. The cause of most of the problems with the P40.
LIMP WRISTING !
Mine has worked as it should and I have enjoyed it very much.
Again, if it works as it should ,199 is a good deal. (I guess)

[W Turner]

I have only owned P11s, P32s, and now, a P3AT, but the one time I shot a P40, I couldn't give it back to the owner fast enough. Some people do not have a problem with these guns, but I did. I have regularly shot a Glock 27 (glocks equivalent), with no problems, so it could just be the way that pistol fits my hand. That baing said I have heard the P40's recoil to be ......ahem, brisk. Lots of practice would definitely be in order.

[roo_ster]

matsaleh:

I've owned & carried mine for a couple of years.

How it Looks:
Dude, the Kel-tec is a butt-ugly tool. If you want a beautiful carry weapon, that can double as a work of art, get yourself a 1911 LtWt Commander. The Kel-tec is made for one purpose: get your hienie outta trouble.

Recoil:
If you can't test-fire it, try renting a S&W 640 J-frame in .357 mag & shoot hot 125 grain .357 mags. That'll get you in the ball-park, recoil-wise. Needless to say, it ain't for the meek. The little mag extension allows for a full-hand grip & helps with recoil.

Reliability:
When I first bought mine, I couldn't get more than three rounds through it without FTF. I was NOT a happy camper. Much blue language & many curses against the owners of Kel-tec were uttered. I sent it back to Kek-tec & boy, did they treat me RIGHT! Polshed up the feed ramp & something else. It has been 100% reliable with Federal 165gr hydrashoks. Not 155gr. Not 135 gr. Believe me, I tried all sorts of premium quality carry ammo. I stick to Federal 165gr Hydra-Shoks for carry & thats IT. Reload 180gr is always an iffy proposition. Wolf .40S&W works great....until the laquer build-up causes FTEs after 100 rounds or so. Just brush it out & keep going, since you won't use Wolf for self-defense, now will you?

How it Carries:
Ahhh, now we come to the reason anyone would buy a Kel-tec: to carry lots & shoot every once & a while. It is, simply, wonderful for the first rule of gunfighting. Get an extra mag or two. Keep one mag WITHOUT the little mag extension, so you can extend the "envelope of carry-ability." It can carry many ways. I manage to carry it with me 80% of the time, the other 20% taken by my Kel-tec P32.

Carry methods:
* Galco pocket holster for Walther PPK (model PH204)
* Aker pocket holster for AMT .45 Back-Up
* Uncle Mike's pocket Holster #3
* Uncle Mike's ankle holster (the larger one, can't recall model #)
* Fobus kydex paddle holster for P11

Add-Ons & Doo-Dads:
* Extra mags are a no-brainer.
* How many to equip with the pinky mag extension is the question (I'd say all but one).
* Some guys will jump on me for this, but I can not say enough to recommend the add-on carry clip for the P40. It just plain rocks. Notice I did not include an IWB holster or belly band under "Carry Methods." The clip is why. Eventually, the clip will get bent about, but don't worry about it. It'll still work & it'll help you win ugly gun contests. The ignorant will make snarky comments about it & the safety nazis will rail that the triggerguard is not covered. Let them cluck like hens. Just keep on carrying your P40 & 10 rounds of .40 at times & in places where THEY are toting itty-bitty .32s & .22s...or nothing more potent than harsh language.

IDPA:
This Sat I used my P40 to run through about 4 courses of fire for IDPA. Mine was the LEAST competition-oriented weapon used & I did OK (not GREAT, but merely OK...gimme a break, I was competing against "IDPA legal" 1911s with tailored reloads & Glock 17s). I did NOT notice the recoil whle running the courses of fire. It didn't bother me too much as I never carry more than one extra mag with me, anyway. I noticed the Wolf ammo gumming up the works after a while & a couple screws coming lose after ~100 rounds. If I need 100 rounds of .40S&W to solve my problem, I shouldda broken out a rifle, instead. It won't be confused with a Glock (the Honda of handguns) in terms of longevity. But it weighs significantly less & is much more slim.

The P40 is at the bleeding edge of what is "physicSally" possible with the .40S&W. It weighs about 14-15oz empty. If you don't polish the feed ramp & keep a good grip, expect FTF.

All that being said, my ugly, bent-clip, worn-finish Kel-tec is what I choose to protect my hide when I step out the house (inside the house I keep REAL firepower: carbine & shotgun time).

If the recoil is too stout for you (no shame in THAT, just know your capabilities), everything I said is also applicable to the P11 9mm, which is a pussycat to fire in contrast. www.ktog.org is a fine repository of information to learn more.

BTW, $200 is a fine price. $250 is still fair. $275 is marginal. $300 is a good slap in the face. Add in the cost of a Dremel tool ($50), and you'll be able to polish your own feed ramp.

Good luck on your decision.

[manwithoutahome]

I have the P40 and carry it daily. It's light, it's small, it gets peoples' attention when looking at the big hole in the front.

It's a ba-atch on recoil. It's sharp and "'twisty" but not impossible to come back on target quickly. The finger extension is a must. But it's not hard to control and if you don't limp wrist it, no problems.

jfruser must have gotten one of the older models, they had the feed ramp problem, the newer ones (before they were discontinued) did not have this problem.

I put 20rds through it when I go shooting with the other guns just to stay proficent with it and remember the recoil. I hit 9's and X's constantly at 15ft and 8's and 9's (with some X's) at 25ft.

It's a good gun and at $199, you can't go wrong.

M

[KeysBear]

ktog.org is down, so Keys will answer your P-40 questions here.
My P-40's are very accurate and I enjoy shooting them. My friends enjoy shooting them too. To answer your questions:

1) Yes it's a great price for a P-40 - buy it.

2) It might not be the best CCW gun for some people - it does kick quite a bit, and I would only recommend it to experienced shooters who use a strong and proper grip.

3) Don't use 180 grain ammo and you will find it much more more pleasant. I carry 135 grain Federal Hydrashoks in mine and they shoot with the same feel as a standard 9mm round. I practice with Win Value 165 grain FMJ and comfortably shoot 100 rounds at a session.

4) I have Hogue Handall Jr.'s on both of my P-40's - very necessary, or an A-Grip. Don't buy the +1 finger rest extension unless you buy Wolff +10% mag springs or you will have feeding probems with the last two rounds. PM me for a place to buy new P-40 mags for cheap, or if KTOG ever comes back up it's posted on the P-40 forum.

5) Sounds like you've got an earlier version with the awful trigger pull. Send it to Kel-Tec and they will change it out to the new one for free. They will also fine tune your pistol for you for free. They have great service. You can also get a hard chrome slide exchange from Kel-Tec for $20.00. I did that with both of mine. You send in the old slide, barrel, assembly pin, and slide lock, and you get a brand new plated slide, new edition plated barrel, and a plated slide lock & asembly pin in return.

The P-40 is definitely not for everybody. PM me if you have any more questions.

BTW, mrapathy2000 is right - the high velocity 155 grain rounds in the P-40 have waaaaay too much kick.



Regards, Keys :cool:

[yzguy]

that is a good price for a P-40 (I don't need one now, but if I saw one at that price, I'd have to really think about leaving with it....)

as far as the trigger goes it is just like the P-11.

http://www.1bad69.com/keltec/triggermods.htm

the single easiest trigger mod lightens the pull:
http://www.1bad69.com/keltec/triggerpull.htm

(just have to make sure you keep the FP channel clean, about every 500 rounds. If it gets crud in there you'll get light strikes.)

[matsaleh]

Thanks to you all for such wonderfully considered replies!

I am now officially torn on this purchase, because I was just about to give it a pass, but you all have said great things about it.

I don't shoot a whole lot, mainly just for practice for my CCW. I would love to shoot recreationally, but can't afford to. I have a 9mm and a Makarov for variety, so if I can't put too much through the P40, I guess I should just swap it out.

The price looks awesome, and the Kel-Tec service you describe... well I haven't heard of anything like that before. A hard-chrome slide tradeup for $20? Free trigger mod? For real? Damn.

I was saving up for maybe a Steyr M40, but that's bigger and pricier, and... well, it just doesn't have that belt clip. Yes, that is one of the features of the Kel-Tec that just keeps coming to mind.

You just watch, I'll go by the shop tomorrow and it won't be there anymore.

Thanks again!

[KT-P32]

Hot Dang!! Its like I'm at home again. All of my buds from ktog.org are here.
Where's Flyer? and Firestar? :evil:

Bye the way I have been converted back to KelTec again. My new P32 works.:D

[Demon440]

I carry a p11 with the .40 conversion everyday. Love the belt clip pin.;)

[KeysBear]

matsaleh,
If you get the P-40 - one thing on the slide exchange. Call them first and make sure they have the hard chromed ones in stock. If not they will probably give you an ETA on when they will arrive (hard chrome is not done by them - it's a third party) so you won't have your gun or slide sitting around there waiting more days than you have to. If you can't get that P-40 you might want to get a P-11 and get the .357 SIG conversion from Kel-Tec. I think they still have those in stock. I started with a P-11, then bought a used P-40 conversion top end for it (they pop up now and then on KTOG). Later I picked up a sweet deal on a complete used P-40 which had a rusted slide and was missing a lot of bluing. After getting the hard chrome exchange, adding a Hogue Handall Jr., and a +1 extension I took it back to the shop where I bought it. The owner couldn't believe it was the same gun. It looks beautiful, and for me shoots 9's and 10's at 25 feet.

Regards, Keys :cool:

BTW, ktog.org is back up and working.