Gun owner stops dog attack


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TheeBadOne
October 20, 2003, 05:13 PM
Terry Ayala was stirred from her Sunday afternoon nap by loud barking.
When she peered from the bedroom window of her Northeast Side house, a horrific sight was unfolding in the yard next door.

Ayala's neighbor, Malko Oswald, was on the ground behind his house with his 50-pound pit bull latched to his face.

Ayala screamed for her husband, retired San Antonio police officer Hector Ayala. He leapt from the living room chair where he was watching the first half of the Dallas Cowboys game and raced to the backyard fence, screaming at the dog to stop.

The dog ignored Ayala's shouts, locking its jaws on Oswald, and chewing at the right side of his owner's face and arm.

Ayala then grabbed his Glock 9 mm handgun from the house and fired a shot into the ground, finally scaring the dog off his owner. He said the gun was a retirement present from the police department.

As of late Sunday, Oswald, 48, was in stable condition at Brooke Army Medical Center with lacerations to his face and arm and puncture wounds to his side.

After the dog released him, Oswald struggled to his feet, leaning on a clothesline pole as Ayala burst through his neighbor's front door to help him. "I coaxed Mike to walk to the (back) porch," Ayala, 59, said. The dog paced in front of its kennel as Ayala pulled his neighbor into the front yard.

A wide blood smear on the glass front door of the house in the 5800 block of Sun Bay was still visible later in the afternoon.

"I just wanted to make sure he was OK," Ayala said of rushing to help his neighbor. "Today the damn dog just turned on him and got the better part of Mike."

Neighbors said they haven't heard of any past problems with the pit bull, one of three dogs Oswald owns. The other dogs are not pit bulls.

Pastor Dorothy Mack of Faith Harvest Church, who lives on the other side of Oswald, said neighborhood children often play in Oswald's backyard without any problems.

To hear about today's attack, that's sad, he's quite a sweet man," Mack said. "God bless that man. We'll be praying for him."

A police report said animal control officers retrieved the pit bull.

This is at least the third pit bull attack in San Antonio this year.

On May 7, two pit bulls killed a 13-year-old shih tzu and mauled a 60-year-old jogger in north San Antonio. On Feb. 8, a pit bull attacked three people on the South Side.



http://news.mysanantonio.com/story.cfm?xla=saen&xlb=180&xlc=1072142

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XLMiguel
October 20, 2003, 09:07 PM
Doggie needs a dirtnap.

4v50 Gary
October 20, 2003, 10:50 PM
Yep.

P95Carry
October 20, 2003, 11:06 PM
Despite what loving owners might say - about their pit bull .. I am afraid I trust them no further than I can throw ----------- up!!

Have just come across too many bad incidents over last 10 years or so.

Hot brass
October 20, 2003, 11:09 PM
Doggie should have caught a few 9mm`s to help in expiditing the dirt nap.

HABU
October 20, 2003, 11:50 PM
Ayala then grabbed his Glock 9 mm handgun from the house and fired a shot into the ground ***? Into the ground? Granted, Fido was attached to his face, but if I'm gonna shoot, Fido is gonna get shot somewhere. When he does let go he will get some lead for his head.

As a sidebar, if you grab a dogs tail up tight to his butt and lift his back end into the air, he will stop any agressive behavior.

SteelyDan
October 21, 2003, 12:57 AM
Maybe this is the dumbest question I've ever asked (probably not...), but is there really any reason for a decent sized guy to be afraid of a dog? I can see where multiple dogs would be a problem, but just one?

I'm 6', pushing 220 pounds, and I've got legs for kicking and arms and hands for controlling the situation. I think. I mean, there's a chance the dog will get in for one bite, but can't you then choke it and take control? If they let go, you've got them, and if they don't let go you can poke their eyes out, or whatever.

The "locking their jaws on your face" thing does sound pretty nasty, but how would that happen in the first place?

I freely admit I'm completely ignorant about this, but I've just never understood how 75-pound German Shepard police dogs seem to routinely take down 200-pound guys. Maybe I'm kidding myself, but I'll bet it's me, and not the dog, who walks away from that encounter every time.

This thread strikes particularly close to home because we just got our first dog; a year-old Lab, Shepard, Beagle mutt. She's great in every respect, except that when my wife or the kids are around, she becomes extremely aggressive toward me, but only when we're inside the house. In a way, I like the protectiveness, but we've already tangled once and we may have to tangle again. And "no," I did nothing to inspire her aggression--I wanted to get a dog--except for the time I smacked her nose after she bit my hand. She's been a little better since then (growls instead of lunging attacks), but this is becoming a drag.

WhoKnowsWho
October 21, 2003, 02:24 AM
You would be amazed how strong those jaws are, and how much strength is in the dog when it jumps at you...

fivepaknh
October 21, 2003, 02:34 AM
I somewhat agree with what you're saying, but I think it depends on the breed. I think many dogs can be beaten by an average sized man. Though some breeds are hardier than others. My brother has a 1 year old Bull Mastiff. He's a sweetheart, but he's unbelievably strong. He's like one solid muscle with fur. I was squatting down playing with him last weekend and he crawled under me and started to stand. He damn near lifted me off the floor. I'd hate to think what would happen if he decided to turn to the dark side.

Shane
October 21, 2003, 02:46 AM
The "locking" jaws of a Pit Bull is a myth. They have a very powerful bite and for all practical purposes cannot be pried off, but there is no "magical" locking mechanism in their jaw.

However, that being said carnivores typically are capable of killing prey much larger than themselves. Those of you that weigh 200 lbs and wonder how a 50 lb dog can do so much damage, just look at many of the carnivores in nature that bring down prey several times their size. Pit Bulls in particular are one of the most powerful and determined dogs in their size range (45-75 lb range).

I agree that this dog must be killed. Good dogs don't try to kill their owner. I've known lots of good Pit Bulls (in fact the breed is known in the "dog circle" for being PEOPLE FRIENDLY), but something is seriously wrong with that dog for it to turn on its owner. The main drawback to Pit Bulls is their ANIMAL AGRESSION. It is NOT a breed I'd ever want to own, but I respect them.

Shane
October 21, 2003, 02:50 AM
My brother has a 1 year old Bull Mastiff.

.....He's like one solid muscle with fur.

Yep, pretty much a walking muscle.

One of my friends use to have a male Old English Mastiff (the most massive domestic dog on the planet). In the dog's prime, the dog weighed in excess of 250 pounds. He was a very nice dog, but he (plus the breed in general) don't live long though, unfortunately.

fivepaknh
October 21, 2003, 03:16 AM
An English Mastiff is my next dog. That is after my German Shepard passes, which I hope is a long, long time from now. I've wanted a breed of Mastiff for a long time, but when dog shopping, my Shepard was $450 and the Mastiffs were $1200. So, given my financial situation at the time, I opted for the German Shepard. Love her to death.

BryanP
October 21, 2003, 07:03 AM
dog weighed in excess of 250 pounds. He was a very nice dog, but he (plus the breed in general) don't live long though, unfortunately.

Canines were not designed by nature to be that large. We have bred them up to that size. As a result they don't live very long. Great Dane's tend to be relatively short-lived dogs as well.

Bigjake
October 21, 2003, 07:25 AM
http://www.ckcusa.com/webads/c_webads/carlisle.jpg


Cute little sucker, hard to belive they do get upwards of 250 lbs!

TarpleyG
October 21, 2003, 09:42 AM
SteelyDan,

Dogs, cats, others are VERY fast compared to humans. Not to mention much more powerful when comparing weight to strength. Plus they have those nasty teeth and you don't.

I have been attacked by a cat before. Twice. Cat had something wrong in the head and I put him down. First time wasn't that bad but second time I was screwed up pretty bad along my whole left arm and hand. While the cat was "attached" I tried strangling him (felt like my hand was around a 4" steel pipe), beating him against a wall, and poking his eyes. Nothing got him to turn loose except me actually prying his mouth off my arm and ripping him off me.

I was astounded how strong this 10# cat was. I cannot even ponder what would happen if one of my 75# dogs got ahold of me.

GT

Grey54956
October 21, 2003, 10:00 AM
It's not that dogs or cats are stronger than people, but rather that they are specialized in their evolutionary roles...

Many predators kill their prey through attrition of sorts. Clamp on to a prey animal and hang on until it tires enough to get a killing blow in, usually at the throat or spine. Very rarely does a cat (big or small) instantly kill its prey. And dogs are descended from pack hunting canines. A hunting pack frequently overwhelms its prey with numbers, each pack member grabbing onto the prey and dragging it down until one of them can make the kill.

Humans have the highest proportion of muscle to body mass in the animal kingdom. However, a lot of our muscle is devoted to general use: keeping us upright, walking, lifting, general agility, etc... Most predatory animals' muscle is devoted to obtaining/killing prey. That's why cats and dogs are great at running and grabbing onto things, but generally suck at walking upright or carrying/lifting things.

dhoomonyou
October 21, 2003, 10:19 AM
Shouldnt Pit bulls be regulated?
perhaps a limit on how many teeth they can have? say 10.

semf
October 21, 2003, 10:57 AM
As a very experience 6' 220lb animal attack victim ( 23 times to date) I can tell you that any body who thinks he can escape a determined dog attack unscathed is very naive or has never seen an attack up close and personal.

Dogs are predators and very good at what they do. Pitbulls may not have locking jaws but they do have 2500psi of pressure in their jaws. That will do alot of damage to a victim that has zero natural physical defenses.

Pit bulls are not bad dogs, but they must be respected. A poodle or Taco dog are much more likely to attack but who cares.

357SIG
October 21, 2003, 12:04 PM
Great Dane's tend to be relatively short-lived dogs as well.

Scooby's dead?

Mike Irwin
October 21, 2003, 12:09 PM
Makes me wonder why the guy had a pitbull (a catch-all term for a number of dog breeds).

Family pet, or fighting dog?


SteelyDan,

I've seen a number of large, fast, and very muscular individuals who have been very badly handled by medium to large sized dogs.

Andrew Rothman
October 21, 2003, 12:20 PM
Maybe this is the dumbest question I've ever asked (probably not...), but is there really any reason for a decent sized guy to be afraid of a dog?

A guy I know, a doctor, used to work in the ER at a New York hospital. The cops brought in a bad guy that they turned the police dog (a Rottweiler) loose on.

The dog's jaws crushed the guy's femur (that's the thigh bone -- the biggest one in your body).

I am not afraid of dogs, but I have a good deal of respect for them!

Matt

Mr. Bombastic
October 21, 2003, 01:52 PM
One big advantage that humans have over dogs, predator versus predator-wise, is that at least we don't have to fight with our faces! :)

Bravo11
October 21, 2003, 02:41 PM
semf,
Attacked 23 times? Are you a mailman?
I used to know a guy that read electric meters. Now that is a dog unfriendly job. He was major mace packer.

cordex
October 21, 2003, 03:08 PM
Very few people are prepared for a real dog attack.

HABU,
I don't know how much the dog and man were entangled, but I might well fire a shot into the ground if I felt I might hit the victim by shooting at a squirming pile of fur and flesh. You aren't always presented with a safe shot.

Steel
October 21, 2003, 05:59 PM
worthless breed. I hate those things.

kernal_panic
October 21, 2003, 06:00 PM
anyone who thinks they can take on an 80 plus pound dog with out a weapon is smokin crack.

Matt G
October 21, 2003, 06:51 PM
I'm amazed at the criticism launched against the guy who stopped the dog attack and saved his neighbor's life. When an animal is actively chewing on the person that you're running up to save, it's just REALLY likely that you're not going to be able to get a good shot at it without running a high likelyhood of hitting the fellow you're attempting to rescue. Keep in mind that dogs, when attacking, will usually continuously swing their bodies about, even while their head is clamped onto their prey. Thus he'd have a moving target, in a time of high anxiety, with ultimate consequences for a misplaced shot or a pass-through to the victim. All in all, putting a shot in the ground while running up to the dog is NOT a bad idea, IMHO.

Please note-- as a rule, I'm against warning shots. But this is a slightly differnt situation than a typical "warning shot."

ShaiVong
October 21, 2003, 07:19 PM
but I've just never understood how 75-pound German Shepard police dogs seem to routinely take down 200-pound guys.

Becuase that 200 lb guy isnt fighting the 75 lb GS, hes trying to run away and the dog attacks him from behind. If the guy was standing and fighting, the cops would have taken him themselves.

I think any reasonably fit man could take on any single dog (within reason, not talking 150-200 lb mastiffs here). I don't think you could do it without injury, but you could do it. Especially with a pocketknife.

Dogs are great predators and early warning systems, but like most predators they attack in groups or from behind. How often do you hear about Lions killing the biggest and baddest in the herd?

semf
October 21, 2003, 07:23 PM
Attacked 23 times? Are you a mailman?

pest control for 20 years. And we're not allowed to carry mace. It usually just pisses them off anyway. Got 15 stitches in my butt for that little experiment
worthless breed. I hate those things. some people say that about guns and some gun people say that about "assault guns" I don't believe that the breed is bad. They were designed for a certain purpose (hunting not fighting) if they are not allowed to fulfill that pupose the go stir crazy. I grew up with hog hunters and have known alot of pits and have owned 13. The breed is not bad they just have to be respected.One big advantage that humans have over dogs, predator versus predator-wise, is that at least we don't have to fight with our faces! According to this story we're not very good at it

Black92LX
October 21, 2003, 07:24 PM
if you see the dog coming and expect an attack is one thing. but this was this guys dog he could have been bending down to pet him and something made the dog snap and boom he's latched to his face. there is not really anything you can do then.

P95Carry
October 21, 2003, 07:34 PM
he's latched to his face... there is not really anything you can do then. This is a reason why I have always found it hard to trust a dog, totally. Maybe one or two less than pleasant experiences when I was young started me on this route.

The scary thing is the speed with which a dog (or cat even) ... can ''turn'' ... it matters not what may or may have provoked the attack .... it commences in a heartbeat .... and then the ferocity and speed of attack can be awesome. The main factor IMO why they can do so much damge even when the body weight equation seems stacked against them.

They also when in attack mode have NO thoughts as we might - about what harm may become them ... they are out to damage or kill ..... that's their intent.... and they can become a whirling mess of biting teeth . hard to defend against and hard to hit even if armed.

Not strictly relevant but I remember a guy who had an old cat ..... which superficially seemed all nice and friendly ... accepted attention, purred, seemed to love it ...... then at times something used to ''snap'' (? brain tumor perhaps?) .... and quicker than a camera shutter .... the claws were slashing and the teeth were biting ... with considerable damage done. That nasty piece of feline deception eventually was given a well deserved lead ''pillule''!!:evil:

quick68
October 21, 2003, 07:35 PM
My brother and I were trying to chain a 4yr old pit mix that my mother had that had started growling at visitors. The dog spun and bit my brother on the hand, if it was trying to intimidate him it failed. I belive here is the difference in surviving a dog attack with fewer wounds. My brother shoved the dog away and stood up, the dog backed up about 10 ft and charged us, it jumped at bro. and he kicked it under the throat/chest area hard enough to break dog parts, the steel toe boots help here, the dog acted like it had been hit with a car and ran off to be put down shortly there after. The dog may have been a 65lb weapon, but bro was a 250lb weapon.

Zach S
October 21, 2003, 07:43 PM
As a very experience 6' 220lb animal attack victim ( 23 times to date) I can tell you that any body who thinks he can escape a determined dog attack unscathed is very naive or has never seen an attack up close and personal. Very true.

JPM70535
October 21, 2003, 08:10 PM
I place Pit Bulls in the same category with Rattle Snakes, in that IMO the only good one is a dead one. I fully expect to be flamed by the Pit Bull Lovers who maintain that there is no such thing as a bad breed of dog.

In over 25 years of Law Enforcement I found myself dispatched to numerous Dog complaints, most of which involved bites. With few exceptions, the breeds involved were either Pit Bulls, Chows, or Dobermans. Of these the greatest offender was the Pit Bull. That breed has been inbred so often to enhance the aggressive nature, (inclination to fight) that they are no longer mentally stable. Many of the bites were serious and happened to the owners of the animals rather than to a stranger. These experiences have led me to the conclusion that when the time comes that I am confronted by a Pit Bull, I will go into DEFCON 5 and at the first move in my direction, will send it to that big fire Hydrant in the sky, no exceptions.

Chipperman
October 21, 2003, 09:10 PM
As a Veterinarian, I see lots of different breeds in my office every day. Some dogs are good, some bad. I'd like to make a few points:

1. "Pit Bull" is a catch-all garbage name encompassing many breeds.
2. Not all Pit Bulls are bad.
3. 99% of the Bad Pits are that way because of the owners.
4. These owners would have made ANY breed bad.
5. The problem with Pits, Rotties, et al, is that they have VERY powerful jaws. The large massester muscles that give them the round head, also give them the power.
6. This particular dog needs to die.
7. There is no such thing as a "locking jaw". They are just so powerful, that you have a much better chance of prying a German Shepherd's mouth open than a Pit Bull's mouth.
8. I think in this case the shooter was very smart. By shooting the ground first, he was sure not to hit the man, and avoided any potential liability of shooting the dog. I'm sure the next shot ould have been into the dog's body point-blank.
9. Most of the bad Pit Bulls let you know before you even touch them. A lot of other breeds are more unpredictable. I've never been bitten by a Pit Bull. I have been bitten by Rotties, German Shepherds, Poodles, Jack Russel Terriers, Dachshunds, Golden Retrievers, etc.
10. If any dog larger than 50-60 lbs latches onto you and does not let go, you're in trouble. Smaller dogs you can wrestle with more easily. It's not just a matter of weight. Dogs have powerful jaws, necks, and have four feet on the ground vs our two feet. This is one of the reasons I carry two Folders, one in each front pocket. If a big dog ever latches onto me, I can open a knife with either hand and quickly dispatch it.

semf
October 21, 2003, 09:13 PM
the breeds involved were either Pit Bulls I think if you check they would be Pit mixes 90% of the time, which would negate the inbred theory which I've heard about German Shepards for years. And the majority would be Pit Lab mixes. And almost all cases will involve abuse or neglect such as chaining or confining in small spaces. And most will also be animals under 2 years old.
The breed isn't bad, some of the owners with the biggest baddest dog mentality that usually is the problem
These are hunting dogs bred for a certain purpose and very good at what they do. When they are denied their natural instincts they create problems.Nietzse said in peaceful times warlike men will turn on each other.The same holds true for other predators.
Antbody that keeps any large dog should be required to to have a fenced in area adequate for the dog to run freely and have a $500,000 liability bond.

Shane
October 21, 2003, 09:27 PM
Cute little sucker, hard to belive they do get upwards of 250 lbs!

Average males are around 180-220 pounds. 250 is NOT common, but it does happen now and then--some individuals are just bigger boned than others. My buddies dog was all muscle too, the weight was not due to fat. Compare this to a female African Lion. Female Lions can get to 300 pounds (which is usually the larger females), but if I remember correctly average closer to 225 pounds. A domestic dog the size of a female African Lion is amazing, because Wild Wolves are much smaller in nature.


The record for largest dog in the Guiness Book of World records was something like 330 pounds (and was an Old English Mastiff). Imagine the pooper scooper needed to pick up after him, must be the size of a large shovel!

ShaiVong
October 21, 2003, 10:02 PM
The record for largest dog in the Guiness Book of World records was something like 330 pounds (and was an Old English Mastiff). Imagine the pooper scooper needed to pick up after him, must be the size of a large shovel!

That's scary big. :uhoh:

SteelyDan
October 21, 2003, 10:22 PM
If there are any cable TV execs reading this thread, I'm guessing their mental wheels are already spinning. Look for the "cage match" during the November sweeps.

TheeBadOne
October 22, 2003, 12:23 AM
I think any reasonably fit man could take on any single dog
That is because "you think". Those who have actually knowledge will tell you that a person has a very poor chance against a large determined dog. (reguardless of the one post of someone defeating a dog with a "kick". If a dog is aggressivly closing in at full speed a kick will usually miss as dogs are very fast. I was trained NOT to kick for that reason.) In fact, if it's a trained attack dog a black belt has a slim chance against a large trained aggresive attack dog. :eek:

CWL
October 22, 2003, 01:29 AM
I think any reasonably fit man could take on any single dog

Ever tried to chew through a baseball in under one minute, how about golf balls? Pit bulls can. Also bones, tree limbs and car tires.

If a pit bull or any med-large dog gets it's teeth on you -especially your face, expect to lose that piece of it at the very least. Pit bulls have the reputation for not feeling pain, I believe it. Trying to punch or choke a dog that has it's teeth on you would probably aggrivate your own wounds.

Dogs used to be used in war, against guys with swords.

Travis McGee
October 22, 2003, 01:54 AM
A pitbull vs a man: sounds like a great "reality TV" premise.

"Joe Millionaire in a Steel Cage Death Match with Joe Pitbull"

Matt

http://matthewbracken.web.aplus.net/snakelogo.jpg

Scoob
October 29, 2003, 04:32 AM
lololololololol:D
"Who will come out on top!!! And what will the Pittbull think when he finds out Joe's not a millionaire,who will the tribal council vote off first,
tune in tonight to find out!!!"

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