my bow setup... help


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EatBugs
June 18, 2009, 03:08 PM
So.... I'm buying a bow here in a few weeks... a Mathews Mustang most likely ...
I plan on carbon arrows but have run up against a wall on the best broadhead to get.

My bowhunting friend uses those expanding broadheads and swears by them... My father uses the chisel tips and pooh poohs the expanding ones

I'm really leaning toward the expanding ones myself. alot of info out there but nothing really saying get this kind.....

btw... hunting whitetails with it

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shaggy430
June 18, 2009, 03:12 PM
Muzzy 3 Blade 100 grains. I've shot multiple deer with the same head (changed blades after each deer). There's a reason why they are called "Bad to the Bone." Very accurate out of my Bowtech. Look up the reviews on Cabelas if you don't want to take my word for it.

IMHO, you could go with an expandable and it could open 95% of the time, but do you want to take a chance on the 5%?

EatBugs
June 18, 2009, 03:14 PM
oh.. I'm sure I will learn this from someone at somepoint before going out on bowhunt for first time... but what kind of penetration can you get into the shoulder. I know of lost deer from the arrow getting stuck on the leg bone or something... Can an arrow get through a shoulder blade....where should I avoid on a deer with a bow(besides the obvious gut and back end area)? where do u aim when a deer is quartering to you?

Always using a gun in the past I've never had to consider these situations....

shaggy430
June 18, 2009, 03:21 PM
Let me clarify myself... you don't want to shoot one in the shoulder. Also, quartering towards shots are a no-no. However, this is real life and sometimes shoulder shots happen. A Muzzy or cut-on-contact head will be your best bet in a situation where that does happen.

As far as where to aim and where exactly the shoulder blade is, this page has some pretty good diagrams.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.indychris.com/mathews_stuff/deer_anatomy/deer9_ribcage.jpg&imgrefurl=http://forums.mathewsinc.com/viewtopic.php%3Ft%3D21358&h=563&w=600&sz=49&tbnid=-sX893MTODlMGM:&tbnh=127&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddeer%2Banatomy%2Bdiagrams&usg=__uBmWk9azFA8GZCu0QJICewp87fA=&ei=1IQ6So6KC8Wktwf6zOHaDA&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=2&ct=image

My best advice is to get a lifesize target and practice, practice, and practice some more.

MCgunner
June 18, 2009, 03:27 PM
A 100 grain 3 blade shoots a good bit lower for me than a 125 grain field tip. I'm looking for something that'll shoot the same as field tips, but I don't trust the expanding blades. I'm thinkin' maybe picking up some 2 blade 75 grain broadheads and trying them.

shaggy430
June 18, 2009, 03:34 PM
MCgunner, 2 blades out of a modern compound have a tendency to plane in my experience. I shoot 2 blades out of my recurve, but it shoots 100fps slower than my compound. Try shooting a 3 blade 75 grain. After all, 75 grains is 75 grains.

MCgunner
June 18, 2009, 03:55 PM
Thanks. I'll look into 3 blade 75 grainers. I was just figuring maybe the extra blade was causing some extra drag.

Castrolr1
June 18, 2009, 04:02 PM
avoid anything mechanical for your broadhead.. hunting is hard enough

T.R.
June 18, 2009, 05:47 PM
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/rushmoreman/PAwoodswtbuck.jpg

Contact the bow manufacturer and ask what they recommend.

I bow hunt with a crossbow by Ten Point. One phone call saved me from wasting hard earned money on carbon arrows and mechanical broadheads.

Ted Nugent has killed more big game with archery gear than all of us combined. He only uses fixed blade broadheads. This is wisdom that can not be ignored. His website has more details.

TR

6x6pinz
June 18, 2009, 09:39 PM
Currently using the Muzzy 3 blade 100gr but have been looking at the 4 blade. I use a Martin Cougar Fusion 2000 set at 320fps and ICS400 carbon arrows. The Elk we took this year was hit a little back but the Muzzy 3 blade cut up the insides enough to stop him at 135yds from point of impact. Sadly had to turn down a couple of 40yd shots as they were standing facing me, just way too much bone for my comfort.
As has been mentioned being able to change blades is nice and helps keep things sharp.

blackops
June 19, 2009, 02:44 AM
Get the Rage broadheads with two blades. In my opinion they are the best broadheads on the planet. Honestly Mathews has great bows. I go with BowTech, but thats just me. You can't go wrong with either. Rage though, get them, you will not regret it!

jaybr
June 19, 2009, 02:51 AM
I've always used Muzzy 3 blade, currently using 100gr with a Bowtech Guardian.

Use the same weight field tips as your broadheads for practice.

MCgunner
June 19, 2009, 10:16 AM
Use the same weight field tips as your broadheads for practice.

That just doesn't seem to work. Must be the added drag of the blades (think of it as a lower BC), but a 100 grain 3 blade broadhead shoots considerably lower for me than a 125 grain field tip.

Kingcreek
June 19, 2009, 11:14 AM
I've bowhunted for 25 years and killed something well over 50 deer. I have tried a lot of different equipment over the years and I use the muzzy 3-blade 100gr broadheads and carbon arrows with my compound bow. I dislike mechanical broadheads. Mathews makes excellent bows.

EatBugs
June 19, 2009, 12:19 PM
Thanks for all the info but I'm still undecided....
http://www.ragebroadheads.com/Products40KE.aspx The rage has mechanicals meant for the lower weight and smaller draw length shooter...aka me... last time I was in bow shop I pulled back 43lb on a Mathews... I'm still working on developing those muscles at the gym....
but everyone seems to like the muzzys.. and isn't the muzzy what Tiffany Lakoskey uses?
I think this will take me awile

1/4MOA
June 19, 2009, 01:38 PM
I'll be another to speak for the Muzzy 100g 3 blades. I've killed a lot of deer with them in the past using my old Jennings bow. I've since stepped up to the PSE x-force and my open mind has drivin me to try the rage 3 blade. I'll give you a review on the on Sept 8 of 09. haha

a lot of stuff works if you hit him in the right spot. remember that.

bejay
June 19, 2009, 01:44 PM
I would stick with a fixed blade also muzzy is good I also like wasp, rocky mtn there is alot of brands that are well made and should do the job.
muzzy makes the practice blades for some of their broadheads to practice with instead of a field tip but it is a pain to get out of most targets.

jdub102003
June 19, 2009, 02:15 PM
Anything muzzy or thunderheads wouldn't touch the mech ones myself!

Sunray
June 21, 2009, 03:46 AM
There are as many broad head styles as there are rifle bullets. Each one being the best thing since sliced bread. None of 'em make a lick of difference if you can't hit the target.
Do not buy a bow of a draw weight that is more than you can easily lift that weight. IE. If lifting 50 pounds is too much, you won't be able to shoot a bow of that draw weight without hurting yourself. Even a compound.
Shooting any bow uses muscles that get used for little else. Back and upper shoulders mostly. Do some upper body exercise. Practice(push the bow away as you pull the string while raising the bow to eye level) until you can hit a 9" pie plate at 10 yards, every time, then move out to 20 and repeat. Do not try to shoot all day right away. Work up to it.
"...100 grain 3 blade shoots a good bit lower for me than a 125 grain field tip..." It would. Physics. Thunderhead makes a 125 grain 3 blade broad head.

MCgunner
June 21, 2009, 11:28 AM
Exercise? I just shoot daily, sometimes 2 or 3 times a day, and I've gotten a lot stronger. Okay, I'm a big guy and 60 lbs is easy to lift, but when I first took the bow back up a few months ago, I was SO sore. ROFL! I just kept shooting and got used to it again. I don't think I had to build a lot of muscle, though, just use the ones I have and get over the soreness. If you're strength challenged, some sort of work out might be a good idea.

I have a little 35 lb recurve to practice with. You might get a smaller practice bow to work up to the compound, maybe. I had an old 45 lb recurve, but it broke.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
June 21, 2009, 04:47 PM
Mechanicals are nice in theory but often fail in reality.

For them to open up, they have to be clean. Ever stuck your arrow into the mud while walking along hunting? I have many times. The dirt gets into the expandables and they won't work! Also, if you hit a hard bone, they may not open up. I now prefer fixed blades as a result. Either Muzzys or Eastman First Cut or Stingers, among others. Pretty much any broadhead will work fine, provided it's a fixed blade.

Muzzys are great because they are cheap and they have the un-sharpened practice blades which you can shoot into your broadhead target to test point of impact. Muzzys will also penetrate bone or a large animal very well, so they are preferred for elk and similar, whereas a chisel point like that is not really necessary for deer.

xmanpike
June 21, 2009, 04:52 PM
You are going to hear 10 different theories regrading what broadheads are best. In reality, almost all are made well enough to complete the job. I have seen wounds by mechanical broadheads which were unbelievably devastating and fixed muzzy's that have penetrated bone easily.

SHOT PLACEMENT is key.

A deer shot properly with crappy broadheads and a 40# draw weight will easily go down.

You really cant go wrong in choosing fixed or mechanical,. Juts pick a main manufacturer and make sure you know how your arrows will fly with that head on.

61chalk
June 21, 2009, 04:54 PM
In the late 80's started with 3 blade Rocky Mt. Then for some reason got sold on 100gr. 4 blade Muzzy....with my Hoyt, that chisel end muzzy busts right through the shoulder blade..I don't aim for it, but have hit it an at 70lbs. it does bust through...and you just file the chisel, put new blades on...good to go again.

blackops
June 21, 2009, 06:19 PM
You don't need to go to the gym to draw your string. Just shoot your bow, then shoot your bow, then shoot your bow, etc. This will develop the specific muscles your going to use when you draw. I'm not saying don't go to the gym, but shooting your bow as much as possible will give you faster and better results as well as improve your accuracy at the same time. When I first got my BowTech I had it set to 50lbs. After two months I had it set to 70lbs and haven't changed it since. Shoot....shoot.....shoot.

mongo4567
June 21, 2009, 10:32 PM
The mechanicals will fly more like a field point. If you bow isn't tuned properly, the fixed blades can affect arrow flight. Whatever broadheads you use, make sure and shoot them at a target.

Regarding your strength pulling; most of it is learning how to draw the bow properly. Your back muscles are much stronger than your arms.

snakeman
June 21, 2009, 10:46 PM
i use a martin jaguar with easton carbons and muzzy broadheads wouldn't change a thing

6x6pinz
June 22, 2009, 01:19 AM
It has been alluded to in some post but by all means have your bow equipment fitted by a qualified technician. Don't count on your friends to help set it up. One can not realize how important this is until they have had one set up specifically for them. You might be surprised how good of a shot you actually are if the equipment is working correctly.
I had my bow set up when I bought it and it felt like I could not miss with it. After a few years I noticed I could no longer take the squirrels from the trees while in the stand waiting for the elk to come in, chalked it up to eyes going bad with age. I took the bow in for a new mainstring and a good look over when the guy asked how long it had been. I am now back to taking small game with ease as it was when I first got it. A couple of my buddies have experienced similar results after having their bows fitted again. These are guys who have shot the same bows for over 15 years.

EatBugs
June 22, 2009, 09:37 AM
Thanks guys.... I will be going with the muzzys after reading posts and talking with the guys at the bow shop.... btw.... I will be having the bow set up by a professional... Specifically making an appointment to buy then have the bow set up by a man whom everyone swears by over here...

MCgunner
June 28, 2009, 06:36 PM
Well, not to brag or anything, well, why not brag? But, I've gotten to the point that at 25 yards, I can call the spot for the arrow, just a matter of holding for a steady, sure release. :D Man, when you start getting it right, this archery stuff is kinda cool. All these years, I never knew. LOL! I still ain't worth a toot with a recurve, but heck, I'll shoot the compound with cheater sights. Can't have fun unless you have better'n even odds of hitting with it.

Anyway, so I just bought 6 of these off ebay. I don't know if they're any good, but hell, how many ways can ya make a 3 blade 75 grain broadhead? If they're junky, I can get better later. I can at least find out if the thing will shoot close to my POI with the 75 grain broadheads. I can get Muzzies for about 4 times the cost. I'll try these first. If they're sharp and they shoot straight, why not? If not, I ain't lost much. LOL

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350197518327&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:US:1123

Supertac45
June 28, 2009, 07:33 PM
Any Muzzy tip that will shoot well off of your bow.

Archery Ham
June 28, 2009, 08:26 PM
A few things that I will address and your dealer will too and more:

1) Arrow spine. Pick the correct arrow stiffness for your draw weight. Use the shortest arrow possible, about one inch beyond the rest at full draw.

2) Before you leave the shop, test shoot field points and the arrow/broadhead combination you picked out.

You can have your field points hitting the same place as your broadheads within hunting distances. Some will argue this statement. If your bowsmith knows his stuff, he can make it happen.


My setup: Pearson TX-4 R2B2 Cams, 73#, 29" draw. I shoot Victory V1 300 arrows with Slick Trick heads and FOB "vanes"....425 grains flying at 301 FPS.

Each head stays with its own arrow. Spin tested and fly true to 60 yards.

Good luck. May your arrows fly straight.

41 Mag
July 2, 2009, 12:54 AM
I tried several of the "recommended" broadheads when I got into archery last year. My equipment isn't the top of the line, latest greatest thing since sliced bread either. However, it will hold it's own right along side some of the best names.

I started out on a low budget due to having surgery on both elbows, and not knowing if I would even be able to keep up a routine of practice. I purchased one of the Bowtech Tomkat packages. I figured that if I found I couldn't shoot it at least I would be able to pass it along to a younger nephew who could.

After the afore mentioned broadhead trial, I settled on using the 100gr Slick Trick standard for my first hunt. Myself along with several others found that even using different bows, that they always shot right where our field points hit.

My first deer was a disaster, in that he ducked right, just at the last second and instead of hitting him broadside, I hit him squarely between the shoulders. On impact he slammed sideways about two feet and almost hit the ground. He recovered and off through the brush and undergrowth he went not bothering to try and avoid anything in his path. I knew he was hit hard but wasn't sure how bad so I left the area and let him be. Upon my return two hours later, I found the arrow with the unfortunate green coating. I could not for rhe life of me figure out how I had hit him that far back. Around 10 or so that night I found my answer. I had hit him through the shoulders and the arrow continued right on through and out just inside of his offside ham. Almost a lengthwise penetration and still stuck in the ground pretty well. The entry hole was a mess of broken vertebrae and it is a wonder he managed to go anywhere. Even so I have the utmost confidence that many other heads might not have survived the impact with all of the bone and still gotten through what this one did.

I have since shot a nice hog using another one of the Slick Trick tips the Razor Trick. This one I highly suggest giving a try as it is built almost indestructible. It is a true cut on contact head in every aspect, and will deliver great penetration even through the shoulder of a hog. Here is the entry of one I got not long ago.
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/41nag/Hunting%2009/P1010053.jpg
you can clearly see where it caught the back part of the shoulder. It went through so fast the hog hardly reacted and simply stood there. Once it did react it only went about 25yds and that was that.

Use what you want, but given the chance, ar least give the Slick Tricks a run for the money. I highly doubt you will find any faults with them or the performance you get form them.

MCgunner
July 3, 2009, 11:10 PM
I got those "Rocket" broadheads I ordered, came today. I must say, they're better than I'd expected. I don't like the fact that the retaining collar doesn't screw down to hold the blades. It relies on screwing into the arrow to retain the blades, which is okay, but if you take 'em off, the blades can fall out if the collar slips back. However, they shoot dead on to POI with my 125 grain field points which is what I'd hoped for.

The tips cut a full 1" diameter even though the blades look small. The point is fluted and looks like a real penetrator. It held up well to being shot into the box target. I don't know if these things are the latest and greatest and most up to dates, they ain't Muzzys, but I think they'll work.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
July 5, 2009, 01:09 PM
Hey snakeman and anyone who may know, could you answer me this if you can?

My buddy just got a used Martin Jaguar - it's an old one with the wood riser (maybe from the 80s or early 90s?).

It fits him, draw-length-wise but we do not know the pull weight, because the label is faded. However, the seller claimed it was a "50 lb" bow. What's NOT faded on the label is that it says "15 lb adjustment range". So we don't know if it's 35-50 or 50-65 or somewhere in between. My guess is 45-60 or 50-65.

Well the problem is that my buddy is physically pretty weak, and he could not draw it at all when cranked down tight. So I unscrewed it 5 full turns for him; I've read that you should not go more than 5 full turns on a compound bow generally, or risk it flying apart.

Well, he STILL could only pull it and shoot it once or twice before being too weak to pull it anymore. Not good at all for practicing. Now I've explained to him what exercises to do at the gym for lats, and he's going to work on this, but in the meantime I'm wondering if I could go a lot more than 5 full turns out since the bow says "15 lbs adjustment range" whereas most bows are only 10? I actually went 5 and 1/4 each to try to get it where he could shoot it over and over but it's still too strong for him.

So, anyone know how many turns you can go? It looks to me like there's quite a bit more of the bolt left to unscrew probably, but you cannot tell for sure because it's hidden inside the riser. What I don't want obviously is for the thing to snap apart and knock my teeth out and break the bow. Is there a "stopper mechanism" of some sort in there to prevent it from coming apart?

Thanks a lot.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
July 5, 2009, 01:40 PM
For some reason, that last post of mine didn't bump the thread, so I'm doing so.

3pairs12
July 5, 2009, 01:44 PM
I use Easton Axis arrows with G5 monotecs 100gr. They fly true on my arrows and would use them again. Well I haven't needed to buy new ones yet, but when them time arises I will. The main thing to watch is to big of blade surface area. Some of the bigger braodheads will cause your arrow to rutter for awhile. You always want more surface area on your vanes than the broahead. So don't shoot little 2" blazer vanes with a huge broadhead.
Dr Tad 5 full turns on every bow I have owned which is 5 counting my kids. Don't know about a stopper.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
July 5, 2009, 03:41 PM
Sorry for the sidetrack, but look at how several Martin Owner's manuals I found directly contradict themselves in successive paragraphs:

Well it won't let my upload the image.

But first is says you can turn it out "5-7 turns" for storage, and then in the next paragraph it says (in bolt print) "never turn it more than 5 and 1/2 turns". WTH? This is for the Cougar/Bobcat/Jaguar bows.

3pairs12
July 6, 2009, 10:25 AM
I would call a pro shop that deals directly with martin and see what they say. That is weird that it contradicts itself.

nijimasu
July 13, 2009, 03:27 AM
muzzy's are great, solid heads. I have found them to sometimes take a great deal of work to get them to group with my faster bow, though. Just make SURE you spin test each arrow and make sure there is no wobble in the tip of whatever broadhead you use, and you should be able to get good groups with them in hunting distances.

I found that muzzy's allways hit low for me at 20 yards (I saw another poster above had heads that would hit low as well) and generally this means you need to tweak your rest up a tiny bit, or your nocking point down a tiny bit (by tiny, I mean 1/16 in. or less). I don't like to mess arouind with stuff like that if I can get broadheads to group, so generally, I just re-sight for hunting season. Whatever you do, DO NOT SKIP sighting in for broadheads. I can guarentee a broken heart due to a messed up shot if you don't make sure your broadheads hit where your pin is aiming.

I can also recommend the Slick Tricks. I have found them to hit very, very close to my field tips without any tweaking. They are extremely sharp out of the box, and leave a spectacular wound channel. These animals aren't spectacular trophies to anyone but me I know, but I took the deer and elk below last fall with 125 gr. ST Magnums (4 blades, 1.25 slice).

You might also look at magnus broadheads- they fly very straight, and have a lifetime guarentee.

good luck- and good hunting!

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg234/nijimasu_bucket/hunt/daledeerprocessed.jpg

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg234/nijimasu_bucket/hunt/fixedelkshot.jpg

moooose102
July 13, 2009, 10:46 AM
i have never been fortunate enough to shoot a deer with a bow, (yet?) but i have been with a few people who have. i am telling you, when one of those mechanicals open up, it is like cutting the juggler with a machette! blood everywhere! if you can not follow the blood trail from one of those, you are completely blind. plus, with them bleeding so bad, they do not go far! i think the only way i would reccomend the standard 3 blade (or the old bear style) is if you were shooting a low power bow where penetration was an issue.

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