[madcratebuilder]

Couldn't find the original thread so hers a recap. Started with this old Uberti round barreled 51 brasser.
Wanted to build a belly gun so did a little trimming.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/short01.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/avengerrough.jpg

Had some time this afternoon to blue the barrel and cylinder. I used Art's Belgiam blue. A process of boiling the part in water, then applying the bluing, more boiling, then carding. Repeat this process until you get the finish you want. I ended up giving it five reps. I'm happy with the results.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/leftblue01.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/rightblue01.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/rightblue02.jpg

[TMM]

looking good! have you decided to bob the hammer (sort of) and/or reduce the grip size to more of a birds-head grip?

tmm

[Ginormous]

From the time you made your original post on this gun, I couldn't wait for the next update. It's looking absolutely terrific!

[Ratdog68]

Lookin' forward to seein' this one finished up !! :cool:

[madcratebuilder]

I've been slow, my ball and chain is laid up so I have to actually do something around here.

Nickle plate the frame is next. Bending the backstrap is going to be a pain (I think). I need to fill my O2 tank so I have plenty of heat. Bob the hammer and cut a new cross hatch in the spur, or what's left of the spur.

[BHP FAN]

Saweeet.I can hardly wait.Are you gonna use a small shotgun bead for a front sight?

[Voodoochile]

Looks sweet so far man, make me want to get me a inexpensive lil beater to try it on.

I may have to give Art's Belgiam blue a try around my home projects..

[smilin-buddha]

HAve to try and find the original post. This is very interesting

Found the original post.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=440717&highlight=belly

[madcratebuilder]

Are you gonna use a small shotgun bead for a front sight?

I'm going to cut down an 19th century dime for a blade style front sight.


I may have to give Art's Belgiam blue a try around my home projects..

It does not look like much the first few coats. The photos are with a coat of Ballistol. It is recommended to soak it with a water soluble oil. I coated it good with some EEZOX last night and it really has a nice gloss black finish to it now.

[StrawHat]

I'm happy with the results.

There's a good reason for that, it looks great.

If you are going to plate the strap after it's bent it might be easier to cut and braze a rounded grip in place. The plating will hide the brazing.

Keep us posted.

[madcratebuilder]

If you are going to plate the strap after it's bent it might be easier to cut and braze a rounded grip in place. The plating will hide the brazing.

My plan is to plate the backstrap so hiding a weld should not be a problem. If this cast brass does not bend I well be using some brass stock and braze it. I think I well make a metal plate fixture so I have some sort of pattern. I plan to make a few more of these if this one turns out OK.

[theotherwaldo]

I'm going to cut down an 19th century dime for a blade style front sight.

I used a half-dime piece the last time I had to replace a front sight. It was the right thickness and I had just dug it up.
Looked kinda like this, but from 1857.
http://i.ebayimg.com/11/!BTgNhW!CGk~$(KGrHgoH-DMEjlLlvjJvBKIzR9uS1Q~~_1.JPG

[BCRider]

Cast brass is often really brittle. Before you try bending it heat it up to a dull red and let it air cool. If that anneals it to allow bending it then great. If it doesn't work out then make up a new rear strap and silver solder/silver braze it into place. I'd be sure to try the annealing thing and do your first part of the bending on a part that would be replaced regardless if it goes bad.

Sorry for the basics if this isn't new stuff to you madcrate. The fact that you're doing such a project tends to make me think you already know but I thought I'd toss it in "just in case". Having worked with some cast brass parts in the past the ability for it to bend is not great but it loves to crack. I suspect this is due more to the alloy used for casting as opposed to the ones commonly used for drawn stock or forged parts.

Love the blueing job. Is this Art's Belgium Blue almost as good for color and durability as a proper hot blue process? So far I've only done small touch up parts using cold blue. It's OK but sure is splotchy on anything larger in area and doesn't have that deep color at all.

[madcratebuilder]

Having worked with some cast brass parts in the past the ability for it to bend is not great but it loves to crack. I suspect this is due more to the alloy used for casting as opposed to the ones commonly used for drawn stock or forged parts.

Love the blueing job. Is this Art's Belgium Blue almost as good for color and durability as a proper hot blue process? So far I've only done small touch up parts using cold blue. It's OK but sure is splotchy on anything larger in area and doesn't have that deep color at all.

I've been told the the backstrap well bend after annealing. That it work hardens with just a small amount of movement so you have keep annealing repeatedly.

As far as the Art's Belgian blue I have seen revolvers with a lot of rounds down the tube that still look very good. It looks even nicer that the photos show. I know what you mean about the cold blue. The best cold blue results I get is with BC's paste and warming the part up before I apply it. There is some steels that cold blue just well not do a good job on no matter what you do.

I have a 3rd gen Colt Trapper that I got real cheap because it has a large bare spot on the cylinder and the front sight is corroded badly. Seeing how this turned out I think I well attempt a complete reblue on it.

[BCRider]

That stuff about the bending sounds just about right. If you bend it around a form with pressure only you'll likely feel the brass give fairly easily at first. Only bend it as long as it is going as easily as it starts. As soon as it feels like it's getting tougher to bend or does not want to follow the form easily but wants to kink instead stop and re-anneal. The good news is that you don't need to wait for brass to air cool. It can be dunked in water right away from red heat. There's no carbon in the matrix to lock it hard like with tool steel.

If you're stuck with mallet blow forming it you won't get as far since the impacts tend to work harden it sooner. But it helps the progress if you tend to push the mallet onto the metal so it bends further with one blow. This isn't the same as hitting it hard. Sort of difficult to explain but hopefully you get the idea.

In fact that's how the old Bronze Age weapons were made hard by copious light and fast hammering that only slightly deformed the metal. It would pack the structure and work harden it to the point where it could be honed to a razor's edge and hold it for quite a lot of use.

And I thank you for the info on the Belgian Blue. I'll have to look for some of that.

[madcratebuilder]

I finally got some time to spend with this project yesterday. This bending of the backstrap was going to be a major time consumer so I thought I would try just a reshape of the oem grip. A little time at my vertical belt sander and then some hand work gave me this. This feels real nice in my hand, better than a birdshead, so this is basically the finished grip.

With the nickle frame I want to leave either the backstrap or the trigger guard in brass. Any suggestions? I'm leaning toward the trigger guard in brass.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/gripmod01.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/gripmod02.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/gripmod03.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/gripmod04.jpg

[bigbadgun]

Madcrate
How long did you leave the brl on that.
Also started on your shoulder rig yesterday. So it should be in your hands shortly.

[Ratdog68]

Yup... I agree with you... brass trigger guard is my vote. Nice lookin' mod you have goin' on there MCB !!

[theotherwaldo]

Good choice on the grip reshape job. A single-action should have a heel.

[madcratebuilder]

Bob, this one is a three inch barrel. Make sure you use a lot of leather and build it for a fat man.

[Das Jaeger]

nice lookin project . :D ..Your work is always exceptionally clean , me likey that . :)

Question for ya on Nickel Plate . As much as we both know how nice that looks , warm and fuzzy and all on the gun , whats your opinion of having one in brass done with Hard Chrome instead ? I am thinking the stretch value would be much much less than Nickle , and buffed out you could achieve a very simular low lustre also ? I am thinking of having my Buffalo 1858 done in Hard Chrome rather than Nickel becasue it will be stronger and I would like to shoot decent loads through it . What say you ?

Das Jaeger

[Ratdog68]

A pimped Buff' !?! Most Zestful !!! Me still wants a Buff' !

[Das Jaeger]

lets start a new Buffalo threade :D

Jaegers build , Ratodgs next purchase too , what say you :D

jaeger out

[Ratdog68]

Hey !!! YOU're the one who brought up a Pimp't Buff' !!! Don't blame ME for hijackin' ! :neener:

Otay... now ya asked fer it... if'n ya bought one of those Stainless Buff's and plated IT... you'd have your stout little Buff. You needs the classic one as is too. :evil:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/Pod/00/99/45/p009945hz06.jpg

[Cosmoline]

Shiny!

[Das Jaeger]

one Ratface68 :D
It shines up as bright as chrome if I want to . I am lookin for strength too you know :neener:

New threade started you hyjacker :D

Jaeger , give MCB some space , he is one of the best Gunsmiths I have seen and deserves it , so wouldn't mind seeing just his stuff here :D

[StrawHat]

I would plate the grip frame and leave the trigger guard as is. I have seen a couple of originals done that way and like them. I have also seen plated guards and a blued grip frame, which look nice but is not an option for you.

Keep up the work and keep us posted.

[Ginormous]

A little time at my vertical belt sander and then some hand work gave me this. This feels real nice in my hand, better than a birdshead, so this is basically the finished grip.

Madcratebuilder, I find myself coming back again and again and again to look at your handiwork on this piece. The newly shaped grip frame and grips are just totally in tune with the entire look of the gun. I am absolutely envious of the talent you are showing with this project. I'd really like to try something similar to this, but perhaps with a steel framed version and incorporating scrat's reshaped recoil shield and a Kirst gated conversion.

Man, this place is starting to put a serious dent in my Christmas fund. Odd thing is, I don't really care! I've gotten far more laughs, fun and enjoyment from these BP guns than I ever had with my centerfire firearms. Shooting has always been enjoyable for me, but now it's just plain fun again!

I really need to work a trade with someone for my stainless Uberti 1862 Colt Pocket Navy for a couple of beater pistols with project prospects . . .

[madcratebuilder]

Go for it ginormous, it's not really hard to do. Take your time and remove as little metal/wood as you can. It's easy to remove more but I have a hell of a time putting it back on. Start with a hundred dollar junker and you can end up with a one of kind custom that you made yourself. That gives you some extra fun and enjoyment when shooting, particularly when people are coming up and asking about your gun.

It does not require a major amount of tools, I use files and sandpaper more than anything. Using the Art's Belgium Blue has really given me the confidence to re-blue anything I can fit in my pot of boiling water.

[Ginormous]

It does not require a major amount of tools, I use files and sandpaper more than anything. Using the Art's Belgium Blue has really given me the confidence to re-blue anything I can fit in my pot of boiling water.This among several other goodies shipped today from MidwayUSA.

Gathering my accouterments together for the next big winter project.


ItemID Qty Price Description
-------- ---- ------- -----------------------------------
958388 1 $34.99 Art's Belgian Blue Cold Blue 16 ...Gonna start beating the bushes for a decent steel framed build pistol next. :D

[Das Jaeger]

that sounds like real fun :D ..That Belgum Blue is awsome lookin .

Jaeger

[BCRider]

MCB, could we talk you into a new thread on the Belgium Blueing at some point? I know you mentioned about the boiling of the part and the carding but I'd love more details on how much blue to apply and when to apply it. While the part is still wet or do you dry it first and apply it while the part is still hot. How much to apply and do you rub it in or just lay it on. Card with the excess BB in place or wipe off first. etc, etc, etc.

Your blueing job on those parts is by far the nicest "cold" blue I've seen in any build thread on any forum.

And just to keep this from being a total hijack I also vote for leaving the trigger guard in brass. It'll be a nice color offset. Besides, if it looks like poo it's easy to plate it later on.

Nickel has a look that is really different from chrome. Then there's "soft" decorative chrome and hard chrome. Straight from the plating bath hard chrome has a dull grey look to it. But it's seriously hard stuff. You'd want to play with some scrap brass to find out what technique to use for finishing it. Frankly I'd suggest a soft media blast to polish it to a semi shiney surface that is still a satin look but that has no "grain" to it such as you'd get from buffing on a wheel or with some other method. Talk to the plater about how to do this but I think a soft shine nickel or hard chrome would both look fantastic.

Mind you a Mississippi gambler would NEVER be found with a short pistol of this sort hidden in the back of their vest or in an ankle holster that was anything less than mirror shiney. So in keeping with that period you may want to make it so it's all shiney like a gambler's bobble.

[Ratdog68]

This among several other goodies shipped today from MidwayUSA.

Gathering my accouterments together for the next big winter project.


ItemID Qty Price Description
-------- ---- ------- -----------------------------------
958388 1 $34.99 Art's Belgian Blue Cold Blue 16 ...Gonna start beating the bushes for a decent steel framed build pistol next. :D
Ya gonna test the bluein' by soakin' yer hooves in it first Ginormous? :D

LOL A number of years ago, I'd heard good things about soaking your hooves in Listerine. So... I decided to give it a try one night. As it so happens, the night before I was going in for surgery (unrelated). A very important note to self was firmly established that night. Don't buy the "mint blue". I reported to the hospital with blue hooves. :D Regular Listerine does a great job and leaves yer hooves their natural skin tone. Ya heard it here first. :D

[Ginormous]

The boiling of the blued parts precludes the use of this as part of my periodic relapse into my post-apocalyptic motorcycle rider persona. I did however bleach my hair absolutely the purest white I could find in the beauty supply house last summer. That was a hella lotta fun. Makes the younger gals (30-ish is younger to me) notice you too.

Any way, Art's Belgian Blue seems to be the best compromise between poorly performing cold blue products, and the whole hog hot caustic bluing from the gun shop. According to an article I came across while researching it, this is apparently the latest incarnation of the old Herter's Belgian Blue formula from years back that was the cats meow for the home gunsmith.

Getting all kinds of pumped up about this project or sure!

Still looking for a good starter Springfield trapdoor for a major winter project as well. So many things to do, and not enough time or money to do them all it seems. ;)

[Ratdog68]

Wait a few years... not only does your hair turn that color on it's own... but, other curious events begin. The hair you lose on your head... begins to grow in your ears, your nose... your eyebrows try to compensate for the receding hairline.

Now, the question is... when the gals "notice"... are they approaching or runnin' ? :D

That blueing process is intriguing. MCB's blue job does have an extremely nice look to it. I too am hoping he'll entreat us to a "how-to" pictorial with narration.

[kwetu]

Bluing can be done (and I've done it) by first rust browning the steel. I used a chemical similar to Plumb Brown supplied I believe by Brownells although not available in SA. I have a buddy who mixes something similar where you first heat the steel so that a drop of water sizzles on it and then apply the browning solution. When the steel is good and brown (red oxide) you boil it to turn the red oxide into black oxide. I used a pressure cooker with a little bit of water in the bottom and laid the parts on a grill above the water. This then left the parts submerged in steam (which I believe is better for the process than plain water) and let it boil for about an hour. I have no idea whether that was perhaps far too long but I wanted to give the experiment every chance of being successful. The result was a deep rich blue/black which because it's a part of the surface of the steel will not wear off quickley. More difficult to achieve with a long rifle barrel but perfectly easy to do a pistol.
kwetu

[madcratebuilder]

Art's Belgian blue is the old Herter's original formula Belgian blue, it was used to safely blue soft soldered ribs on shotguns.

Start with your Art's Belgian blue, a large pot of water, I used pure water (RO) don't know if that makes any difference. Heavy rubber gloves so you can handle the hot parts. 0000 steelwool, this needs to be oil free, either buy oil free or soak regular in acetone to get the oil out of it. Some sort of tool to remove the parts from the boiling water with out damaging the finish. I used a pair of hard plastic fuse puller pliers. make up some 3" square patches from an old tee shirt for applying the bluing.

Think safety, some ventilation and safety glasses, if you do this in your kitchen remove all pets and people.

Almost forgot, give the wife a hundred dollar bill (or more) and send her to the mall. She does not want or need to see what you are doing in her kitchen.

You do not want a polished finish on the bare metal, a 240-320 grit finish is recommended. I used a 400 grit finish obtained with worn paper.

Clean all parts in acetone or other cleaner of choice and rinse well. Work with one part at a time and boil the part for a few minutes. Remove the part and with the 3" patch, soaked with bluing, rub the part down. Don't be stingy, apply plenty of chemical, avoid runs. Return the part to the boiling water for 2-3 minutes. Remove part and card off with your oil free steelwool. I did this under running hot water in the sink using moderate pressure.

Return part to boiling water and repeat this process until you get the finish you want. After the first two or three applications you may think "this crap isn't working" because it well not be an even color. After 4-6 applications it starts looking nice. I think I did 6 applications on my snubbie.

After you get the color you want and have done the final carding, return to the boiling water and boil for 30 minutes. Remove the part and soak it with an water soluble oil, I used Ballistol. Let it soak for 24hrs and then wipe down. When I got to this point I treated my freshly blued parts with EEZOX. It seemed to make the blue 'pop' out.

The hardest part of this whole job was getting the ball and chain out of the house.

I'm sure different steels well give different results but I found this the be a easy job and so far this blue job is holding up very well. Final note, preparation is key, if you can see any imperfection in the bare metal it well be in the blued metal and just as obvious.

[Ratdog68]

Thank you MCB... appreciate the how-to detail.