Switch carry ammo in cold?


PDA






Apple a Day
January 18, 2003, 09:07 AM
I was wondering if anyone switches defense ammo from hollowpoints to ball ammo when the weather turns cold to improve penetration through extra layers.
Anyone switch to heavier caliber for sake of penetration rather than concealability?
Is so, let me know what you use and/or carry.

If you enjoyed reading about "Switch carry ammo in cold?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
WESHOOT2
January 18, 2003, 09:20 AM
If you already carry the correct ammo and launch platform(s) you don't need to worry about the weather.

It's -22F outside my door right now..........

Guyon
January 18, 2003, 09:25 AM
The only reason I carry ball is to avoid rimlock in my P32.

Larger guns get high quality FMJ loads.

mrstang01
January 18, 2003, 10:32 AM
Uh, Guyon, FMJ is the same as ball.

dfrog
January 18, 2003, 10:45 AM
No need to worry about extra layers during the cold months as long as you follow-up your body shots with one to the head.

HSMITH
January 18, 2003, 12:57 PM
The HP ammo will work fine even through lots of clothes, if it doesn't the cavity will clog and you will have ball ammo performance from the HP. There is no reason to switch, if what you have works use it.

sm
January 18, 2003, 01:04 PM
Agree.
Once correct ammo and platform chosen, stick with it. Practice, repetition becomes habit, habit becomes faith.

WS2, -22 uh? Ok my 16 this am not so bad, gonna make 35 for a high...I feel warmer already .

WESHOOT2
January 18, 2003, 01:08 PM
With the sun out we're gonna make it up to 3F.

Serious: guns-n-ammo can act funny when it gets stupid-cold.
Testing required.

dfrog
January 18, 2003, 01:49 PM
You guys have it made. We are only getting up to 74 degrees today!:D

Al Thompson
January 18, 2003, 02:39 PM
HS has it pegged (as usual). I use Gold Dots as they are fairly resistant to clogging. I tested some Hydra Shoks a few years back and had big problems with them clogging. Note, that when they clog the bullet becomes equal to FMJ or ball ammo.

LWCmdr45
January 18, 2003, 04:34 PM
When I was living in colder climes, I'd sometimes carry a 9x19mm. in the summer, but only a .45 in winter. Even if the heavier clothing prevented expansion of the .45 JHP, it's still a .45! I personally don't carry ball ammo for self-defense. All my guns are thoroughly wrung out and confirmed 100% reliable with one or more brands of JHP, which have less chances of overpenetrating and ricocheting.

Steve

Apple a Day
January 18, 2003, 04:59 PM
This thread isn't aimed at those of us who consider a towed 105mm a "concealed carry piece". I was thinking more of the folks who live in the warmer climes and carry something more moderate, like a .32, .380, .38Spl. in a snub, or 9mm Makarov as a concealed weapon during warmer months.
I am not looking for any "why would you want to carry a [insert something smaller than .308 NATO] when you could carry my gun, which was until recently only mounted on tracked vehicles" advice. :banghead: I was just curious if there were people who switched/when/to what/from what.
I would like to see some actual data comparing a FMJ crammed with material to ball ammo and to bullets with a flat front. I suspect they perform more like flat point rather than round ball... a measurement of shades rather than colors but that is partly the aim of my curiosity.

HSMITH
January 18, 2003, 05:51 PM
Here is some info written by a member here (great job BTW Carbon15) on 38 special. http://www.handgunsmag.com/dynamic.asp?intSectionID=343&intArticleID=3310


Just about any of the serious bullet testing is done on clothed test media. If you want to prove it to yourself and see it with your own two eyes an old sleeping bag will provide all the "jacket and shirt" material you could ever shoot up. Clay as a test media can be reused over and over and over. When the HP clogs with clothing the difference between a flat front of the HP and the round nose of the ball ammo is insignificant in penetration depth, at least in human bodies anyway. There just is not enough person to shoot through for a difference to be known.

Just for clarification, FMJ stands for Full Metal Jacket, and is used in reference to Ball ammo in most instances, they are one in the same to most people. Ball projectiles are a rounded profile full metal jacket bullet. FMJ just denotes that the Jacket covers the entire front and driving band surface of the projectile. Ball/FMJ is designed to NOT expand.
Hollow points, or HP, are projectiles that have a cavity in the bullet nose to aid in upset of the projectile on contact, expanding and transferring energy quickly.

El Tejon
January 18, 2003, 05:58 PM
No. Carry .45 whether 99 and 99% humidity or whether God is busy killing bugs and disease.

Actually HPs can perform as fmjs if nose plugs (depends, of course).

WESHOOT is dead on. Test your weapon in all kinds of climate (easier for me because all kinds of climates transpire each week). Wear a white lab coat and carry a clipboard.

blades67
January 18, 2003, 07:05 PM
I don't switch ammunition because of the weather, not even when I'm carrying my Mustang PocketLite.

Dave Williams
January 19, 2003, 04:04 AM
do not change my carry ammunition because of weather.

Dave

Apple a Day
January 19, 2003, 08:43 AM
I'd personaly like to thank LWCmdr45, the only person thus far to actually respond to the original thread. :D Okay, 15 responses later, one person switches from 9mm to .45.

HSMITH,
There just is not enough person to shoot through for a difference to be known. Shoot bigger people? Throw the little ones back? :cool:

WhoKnowsWho
January 19, 2003, 09:11 AM
dfrog: Isn't our weather horrible! :) Nice to not even have to worry much about thicker clothes here most of the time.

Double Naught Spy
January 19, 2003, 10:18 AM
What a perfect testament to poor performance capabilities of some calibers and weapon platforms...

If the weapon platform you are using is so borderline that adding clothing for bad weather is going to be significant enough that you need to change to a different ammo, then you really need to look into carry a more powerful weapon platform.

WESHOOT2
January 19, 2003, 10:38 AM
I think this thread was done after my first post :banghead:

Shaughn Leayme
January 19, 2003, 12:50 PM
Apple a Day,

Personally, I think everyone did respond to your original thread (premise) it's just that the majority of us are quite comfortable in what we carry and our selection of ammo and see no need to change because of climate.

Now we might change guns because it might be easier to conceal a officer model 1911 versus a GM 1911 in warmer weather or perhaps a compact 9mm and maybe something even smaller, depending on the manner of dress.

I see no reason to switch from my preferred carry load because some one might be wearing more layers because of cold weather.

The hollow point that gets clogged with fabric turns into a fmj/ball and will penetrate deeper, but should it not be plugged then it should expand and since it happends to be a 45 caliber bullet it can't shrink and it has the ability to expand to 60 caliber, so I am quite confident in the round and my ability to put it where it needs to go.

So, unless my preferred carry gun is down for work or I have run out of my carry load or find the ammunition is sub standard, I will not change either caliber or type.

Oh, by the way, my preferred carry load is a 200 +P GDHP by Pro load.

MacPelto
January 19, 2003, 02:45 PM
Ball/FMJ is designed to NOT expand.

Not entirely true...Federal EFMJ (Expanding Full Metal Jacket) has been around for a whlie now, and performs pretty well in the ammolab tests, and the random quasi-scientific tests that I've done on phone books. (Those phone books better not mess with me anymore ;))

http://www.ammolab.com/federal_efmj.htm

This is what I carry, no matter the weather...
YMMV

WonderNine
January 19, 2003, 03:15 PM
I carry NATO 9mm summer and winter. I used to carry Winchester Ranger SXT 127gr. in the summer, but now I carry NATO 124gr. in the summer as well, hey it's waterproof! Aside from FMJ being more reliable, you never know when you might have to shoot through something in a defense situation, railing, windshield, door, ect.

sm
January 19, 2003, 03:36 PM
Apple...

Some of us are not trying to be argumentative or smart-aleck. I have always said "mistakes are less painful and less expensive if someone else's".
Sharing experience/ knowledge in a civil manner. Some may have run the gamut with loads, platforms, gizmos and gadets. I know I have saved aggravation by heeding advice.

SHOOT DIRT/MUD, seriously , drap clothing if you like. MY main deal is RELIABILITY , in gun fit in a platform of a caliber as large as I can get consistent hits quick.

1911 style 45ACP is my preference and if tommorrow all I had to use was FMJ -so be it. I do use a 230 JHP now, I tested thousands of rds for my carry load.

Did the same for the 9mm, which is the smallest caliber I carry for CCW.

HSMITH
January 19, 2003, 06:19 PM
EFMJ is NOT FMJ.

MacPelto
January 20, 2003, 12:13 AM
EFMJ is a type of FMJ, it is not ball.

Blackhawk
January 20, 2003, 12:30 AM
I don't switch either, but If I lived where I could look out and calmly say "It's -22 F outside," I would switch -- to the south, way south.... :what:

WESHOOT2
January 21, 2003, 05:50 AM
I said "In Vermont I can carry without being licensed AND I can pass over the double-yellow. And it won't be so hot."

Apple a Day
January 21, 2003, 06:37 AM
I reckon that answers my question well enough. No one here carries anything smaller than a 9Luger and no one switches ammo for better penetration.
Thanks for all the posts. :D

WESHOOT2
January 21, 2003, 10:41 PM
I never mentioned caliber........................

Country Boy
January 23, 2003, 04:00 PM
I use the same hollowpoints no matter the season.
It was -20 as I drove to work this morning.
Here are the four seasons we have in the Dakota's:
Almost Winter, Winter, Still Winter, and Road Construction.

If you enjoyed reading about "Switch carry ammo in cold?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!