[natedog]

What kind of accuracy do these beasts get? Obviously nothing under 1/2" groups...:p

[voilsb]

I was always taught that you measure groups from the closest edge of the circle on the paper ... so if you have five 1/2" circular holes and the farthest apart they are is 1/8", you've got a 1/8" five-shot group.

But that's just what I was taught, I could have been taught wrong. And of course, you'd have to use a different standard (or longer ranges) if you've got all your shots touching one another ...

BTW, according to the gun grabbers, a .50 cal Barret can do .0003 MOA at 8500m with iron sights, shot from the hip.

In reality, I think (emphasis on *think* ... I'm not sure) I've heard about 1.5MOA at 1000m, and sub-MOA at 600m.

[cracked butt]

How big in moa is a sattellite?
BTW, according to the gun grabbers, a .50 cal Barret can do .0003 MOA at 8500m with iron sights, shot from the hip :D

[4v50 Gary]

Considering it is mil-spec, I would say it's accurate enough. I want one and have urged Steyr-Aug to organize another group purchase like the one he did for the ARFcomers.

[Gordon]

With Machine gun ammo , a tuned Barret M82 with 10X Leupold M3 does about a foot at 600yds. (my longest measured target range) and 8" with custom target ammo. Fooling around on informal targets in desert I can hit a shilo at 1500yds with good ammo. I like to call my shots as a wrist hit is not cool so call it a 800 yd gun. Now this brings up an interesting point: I have a .25 caliber target rifle that shoots a 140grain bullet into 10" at 1000yds! Would you rather be hit somewhere with a .50 700grainer at 1700fps or in the center of the thorax with a .257 140grain bullet at 1700fps?;)

[rayra]

um, Neither?


and for voilsh - I was alway taught to measure the group at the largest point, outer edge to outer edge, then subtract one bullet caliber, to get the center-to-center group size. No idea if that is exactly right, either.

[gun-fucious]

the israelis were unhappy using the barrett for precision sniping and now use it for hard target interdiction

http://www.isayeret.com

[Black Snowman]

Which is technically what it was designed for in the 1st place, especially since match grade .50 BMG ammo was created primarily as a response to it's creation and the addition of other .50 BMG rifles.

I want a Barret Mod 82A1 because of all the recoil reduction features, like weighing a ton ;) The 1st one I ever saw was at a gun show, used, with optics for $3000. If I had had a credit card yet I would have bought it (I had just turned 18).

I'm so kicking myself still for not finding a way to get it.

[uglygun]

With Machine gun ammo , a tuned Barret M82 with 10X Leupold M3 does about a foot at 600yds. (my longest measured target range) and 8" with custom target ammo. Fooling around on informal targets in desert I can hit a shilo at 1500yds with good ammo. I like to call my shots as a wrist hit is not cool so call it a 800 yd gun. Now this brings up an interesting point: I have a .25 caliber target rifle that shoots a 140grain bullet into 10" at 1000yds! Would you rather be hit somewhere with a .50 700grainer at 1700fps or in the center of the thorax with a .257 140grain bullet at 1700fps?


Yep, that pretty much mimics what I've heard. 1.5MOA winds up being pretty restrictive at longer distances if it's the stereotypical "one shot, one kill" type of shot is neccesary. Many of those types who do that sort of work, if they had to take ONE shot and make it count, they all pretty much state that they would prefer something more accurate than 1.5MOA and depending on the chambering it would probably be kept inside of 1200 yards maybe even inside 1k yards.


1.5MOA accuracy and playing beyond 1200 yards, you're talking more about harrasment fire where you're kinda using your rifle like a slot machine where you are at the mercy of statistics/probability. Take 2 shots only to just barely miss then on the 3rd shot "jackpot". Then take another 2-3 shots and land a jackpot on the 4th shot. I really gotta wonder about that record shot that the Canadians pulled off like a year ago in Afganistan. Word is they were using a 50BMG and it was something extreme like 2000+ yards, beyond the supersonic flight capabilities of the 50BMG. What I don't see mentioned is how many shots they were firing or if it was a subversive "sniper" type engagement or if it was a defensive shooting situation where number of shots fired doesn't matter as their position was already known.

Yeah, at long ranges it makes sense that it's a hard target interdiction rifle, hitting a radio trailer at 1600+ yards that is 4x5 feet in size and landing 60-60% of the shots on target is certainly a whole lot more realistic than trying to land all shots within a 36inch vital zone on a hostile biped at 1300-1400+ yards.

It's fun to hear those REAL savvy in math get into the probability/statistics aspect of connecting with a target of "x" size at a "y" distance given you can expect at best 1.5MOA level of precision from the rifle/shooter when working together. Some of my favorite things to read over at the Duty Roster and a few other long range shooting forums.

[Art Eatman]

uglygun, I dunno if I've remembered it correctly, but that (roughly) 2,600 yard shot the Canuck made in Afghanistan was aimed at a guy next to the one that got hit.

Lotsa folks think that's what happened at Adobe Walls, on that Billy Dixon long shot. :)

But if I popped a guy at 2,600, you can believe I'd claim that he'd been my intended target! :D "That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it!"

Art

[eatatjoes]

the canadians were also using a bolt-action .50 made by mcmillan i believe. i'm not sure what the accuracy difference is but what i read it was considerable after 1K+ yards.

[uglygun]

Yeah, a McMillian 50 would probably have considerable accuracy advantages when using well tuned ammo over that of the M82.


Heck, the Armalite AR50 is typically a sub-MOA rifle with good ammo and that rifle is a relative bargin.

[cracked butt]

A 1/2 MOA gun isn't very usefull past 1000 yards if there is alot of wind. A .308 match bullt has a BC of around .500 and a .50 bullet has a BC of about 1.05. the .50 is a whole lot more forgiving when it comes to doping wind at very long ranges.

What would be more usefull a highly accurate small caliber rifle that could have a windage adjustment of 50-60 feet in high gusting winds or a rifle that is affected half as much by the wind but can shoot 15" groups at 1000 meters?

[uglygun]

Yet another good point.


Don't really think the BC has much effect on wind drift though, BC is a representation of ability to retain velocity along it's flight path.

It's mass though, 700grain bullet is gonna be pushed a whole lot less than something weighing 1/5 as much. With respect to side forces acting upon it, once it exits the muzzle it's lateral movement is virtually at rest. What rule of physics is it that states objects in motion want to stay in motion while objects at rest want to stay at rest? 700 grain bullet wants to stay at rest resisting the effects of wind quite a bit more than a 140grain bullet.


I can't help but wonder how many 338Lapua rifles are starting to be fielded, though I don't know what type of anti-material use they offer.

If I had the money, I would absolutely LOVE to pick up this gem like RIGHT NOW.
http://www.snipercountry.com/forsale/Display_Message.asp?Message=0000008818.txt