[Orange Rhesus Monkey]

Hello all. I am a long time reader and a first time poster.

All right, you and your nineteen best friends are on an island. The island is aproximately100 miles squared and consists of both wooded and open ground with a few buildings here and there including a completely abandoned town. You and your friends are looking for buried treasure but, you guessed it, so are 500 17th century pirates. A confrontation is imminent. The pirates are armed with cutlasses, muskets and flintlock pistols. You and your friends are armed with one long gun and one hand gun a piece plus grenades and LAWS. The firearms you have to choose from are the followng:

long guns-FAMAS, SAR21, FAMAE, the new HK SAW, M1 Super 90, Barrett M82A1, FAL and Remington model 700

hand guns-Beretta 8000, Desert Eagle.50AE
note-you may have any combination of these weapons in your outfit

[Tamara]

Kind of an eclectic bunch of choices, there.

I wonder if enough Benelli stocks could be used to make a raft? :uhoh:

[duckfoot]

OK I'll play

4 saws
8 fals
4 M1 Super 90
3 Barrett M82A1

Broken in to 4 fire teams of 1 saw gunner (saw) 1 rifleman (fal) 1 A gunner (fal) and fire team leader (M1 Super 90) and a heavy weapons section of 3 heavy snipers (Barrett M82A1) and all have the Beretta 8000s in 9mm

Now down to business

Are we talking about Asian pirates or European pirates because each had their own way of making war?

Three fire teams take on the pirates hit and run style. A fire team and weapons section take their ship with suppressing fire from the weapons section from the beach while the fire team rows out and boards and takes the ship and scuttles it. Afterward boarding team and snipers join the hunt with the snipers off the leash to snoop, poop, whack and the fire team joining the main group. If the pirates make a stand, laws and snipers will win the day siege style. If the going gets rough poison all water sources start a big a$$ forest fire and make life very hard for them and strand their a$$es for a few years, come back later and get the loot.

sounds like a good plan for the first five minutes anyway.

Duck

[buzz_knox]

You and your friends are armed with one long gun and one hand gun a piece plus grenades and LAWS.

Is that two firearms per person or two firearms for the whole group?

Whoops. Reading comprehension has taken a turn for the worst apparently. The "a piece" thing completely bypassed by Mark 1, augmented eyeballs.

[Skunkabilly]

I wonder if enough Benelli stocks could be used to make a raft?

Tamara, no, the sling plates on the side would take in too much water eventually.

.223s for all, if ammo is on a finite supply, it's nice to all have the same mags and ammo.

Beretta 8000s in 9mm.

Of course, you didn't say they couldn't be suppressed, have underslung grenade launchers or I couldn't have night vision.

For operations against pirates I still prefer ARRRRRRR-15s.

[Bravo11]

How many LAWs and grenades?

[gun-fucious]

YArrrr! ya can't be a postin a Piratey scenario
and not be a writin in the proper pirate tongue.

Now get back to postin
but use proper Pirate english
or i'll be feeding yer entrails to the Bowson's cat

Yarrrrrr!


:evil:

[erikm]

Hello all. I am a long time reader and a first time poster.
Welcome to THR.

All right, you and your nineteen best friends are on an island. The island is aproximately100 miles squared and consists of both wooded and open ground with a few buildings here and there including a completely abandoned town. You and your friends are looking for buried treasure but, you guessed it, so are 500 17th century pirates. A confrontation is imminent. The pirates are armed with cutlasses, muskets and flintlock pistols. You and your friends are armed with one long gun and one hand gun a piece plus grenades and LAWS. The firearms you have to choose from are the followng:
Interesting situation :)
long guns-FAMAS, SAR21, FAMAE, the new HK SAW, M1 Super 90, Barrett M82A1, FAL and Remington model 700

hand guns-Beretta 8000, Desert Eagle.50AE
note-you may have any combination of these weapons in your outfit
Well, the choice depends critically on one question: Have the pirates ever been exposed to modern weaponry? I'm assuming for the rest of this posting that they haven't.

If they haven't, they will probably initially think your guns have the same capabilities as their weapons, i.e. fire once and spend a minute reloading (generally: forget for the rest of the engagement). Their initial estimate of your weapons' other capabilities, such as range and accuracy. In their eyes, with assault rifles you and your friends will individually have the firepower of a small block of musketeers, with ungodly range and accuracy to boot. En masse, you could see off a tercio (pike block). The only real worry as to their weaponry is their cutlasses. You have to kill them all before they get to hand-to-hand range.

My choices would probably be:
- Pistols: Beretta's all round
- Long Guns: 12 FAMAS, 4 SAWs, 4 Remingtons.

I'm purposely not taking Barretts. They're nice but too heavy. If you were to say that the pirates had cannon, I might select them instead of the Remingtons as anti-cannon weapons.

Organisation: 3 fire teams with 4 FAMAS and a SAW, a special weapons team with 4 Remingtons and a SAW. At need, change to 3 fire teams with 4 rifles, 2 sniper pairs and a 4 SAW fire support team.

BTW: I'm missing shotguns here. I'm thinking that a detachable magazine shotgun with removable chokes would be pretty devastating.

For an interesting example of modern firepower vs. 17 century troops, see 1632 (http://www.baen.com/library/0671319728/0671319728.htm).

Cheers,
ErikM :evil:

[George Hill]

:rolleyes:

[cslinger]

1 LAW and one belt fed machine gun.

Step 1 sink their boat.

Step 2 set up machine gun nest on beach in ambush position near their once boyent boat.

Step 3 wait paitently for pirates to exaust themselves finding the treasure.

Step 4 cut pirates down in hail of machinegun fire as they trudge back to afore metioned sunken ship.

Step 5 take treasure.

Step 6 Margaritas all around.

:D

[Oleg Volk]

To make the scenatio more challenging, consider working under an artificial handicap. Let's say your team is back in 15-16-17-18 century and that modern immunities would keep them alive despite likely pestilence. Let's say you know the basics of camp sanitation and food preparation and have clean water or enough beer. Now make do with .410 pump shotguns and your choice of ammo, shot or slug. Or make do with tube-fed .22 magnum bolt actions. The idea is that you have easy to maintain guns with relatively light ammo but limited range and power. You have a very strong incentive to avoid tangling with the locals needlessly. Or, as in Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen, you start out with your daily carry. In his case it was a .38 Colt and 18 rounds. In yours it may be a Glock 23 with a spare magazine and a SW36 backup with no reloads...or a 50rd box for each, if you got lucky when you fell into the timestream.

SAW vs. 17c infantry is too easy, provided familiarity with both the weapon and small unit tactics.

[Skunkabilly]

SAW vs. 17c infantry is too easy, provided familiarity with both the weapon and small unit tactics.

Oleg, don't forget the night vision and CS gas ;)

[4v50 Gary]

With four M-82s, you can keep them aboard ship and prevent a landing. That 50 will punch right through the hull and you can keep them from manning their guns. (Suppressive rifle fire played a key role in George Rogers Clark's capture of Fort Sackville during the Revolution. In nautical warfare, there are several instances of rifleman making the difference. John Paul Jones almost lost but his topmen fighting from the mast is a good example. Even as late as the Civil War we've seen where good riflemen suppressed ironclad ships that couldn't open the gun ports lest a hail of minie balls pour in).

The rest of the guys can have FN-FALs. Better to keep them afar and to prevent a landing. BTW, I don't think I'd take prisoners either.

[Correia]

I would take one Desert Eagle, just in case we needed an anchor of some sort. :p

Unless the pirates are the undead kind from Disney, I wouldn't be to worried.

[Orange Rhesus Monkey]

Thank you for the welcome erikm.

:)

megcatia

We'll say four grenades and one LAW per man.

Oleg

Keep in mind the numbers difference. 500 muskets sounds pretty formidable to 20 pump action .410s or .22 magnums. As for the SAWs you are not in exclusively open terrain. You won't be able to mow them down in the open for long once they realize what automatic weapons can do.

[Dr.Rob]

Well they do have an advantage in numbers. But think of it this way.. anything you take MIGHT end up in their hands.

Your weapons choices border on bizarre.. but the FN-Fal with sand cuts should work well, though its heavy.

Better not be TOO keen on sinking thier ships, you might need a way off the island eventually.

LAW rockets are (I suspect) likely pretty useless against a wooden boat.. after all its a shaped charge designed to spew hot spall into a tank or APC... would it work against a pirate ship? And what idiot would try firing it from a longboat? If it hits powder sure = kaboom, but if it hits sea salt soaked wood? will it even "go off"?

That many pirates means a BUNCH of cannon. Cannons can certainly ruin your treasure hunt so I'd guess we'd need to think about a flat shooting long range weapon of some sort to interdict the cannon fire. You might think you won the battle of Hispanola only to die in a barrage of gunfire from offshore. Oh they don't have radios but thats WHY they invented semaphore.

Confronting a force that large, even with superior weapons is pretty short sighted. After all, do you really know the range/penetration of a 17th century musket? Your flak jacket is useless and unlike those rough and ready sea fairing cutthroats you and your boys "training" involved paintball once on a three day bender in Tuskeegee. These guys lived through scurvy, a tough life and a threat of instant violence. Maybe you and your buddies got a bruise playing raquetball.

Any one of your "friends" a sailor? Anyone a medic? You'd better have both. You better protect them both. Now that leaves you with 18 guys. Something belt fed might be nice.. but hardly necessary given select fire FAL's. You could possibly out distance/engage them but its a 100 mile squre island.. chances are you won't see them all at once.

Your handgun choices are dismal. I'd take the one that held the most bullets.

Who the heck is the quartermaster of this rig anyway?

Real SE China sea pirates would have AK's or AR 15's.

Who has the map you or them? Do they know you are there?

Why can't I have a Cutlass/saber too?

BTW they had grenades in the 17th century too, they were just as dangerous for the user as enemy.

Sort of agree with Oleg.. its a little "too easy".

---------------------------------------------------------------

On a different note... given time travel is possible etc... you realize your likely armament with a full crew of 20 on a sailing boat MIGHT consist of a few stainless mini 14's and shotguns? Maybe a handgun per man and a flare gun? Not even a guarantee you have more than a box of ammo per man.. and no idea what kind of pistol he's carrying.


Still want to take on 500 guys with those odds?

[Orange Rhesus Monkey]

Cannons are impractical to move around in an area this size considering the size of your outfit. Hardly a factor, in my opinion. The pirates do know that you are there.

As for the weapons choices, I figured something different would be interesting. Aside from the FAL and maybe the M1 Super 90 people have to branch out a bit from the usuals.

[Joe Demko]

How many of the pirates are wearing eye patches?
How many of the pirates are wearing peg-legs?
How many are wearing hooks?
Are there any talking parrots?
Are we allowed to ally with the flying kid in green tights?
How much does it damage pirate morale to kill the pirate who plays the concertina?
What about the wenches?
Are any of the pirates good at laughing then jumping off of things?
What are the rum supplies like?
Is any part of the treasure a mystical relic that would give me god-like powers over the world of men?
Is this in the tropics? What about the cannibalistic natives? Can I convince them that I am the prophesied return of a long-dead king? Do their women habitually run about bare-breasted?
Am I permitted to habitually run about bare-breasted?
Can I have a Cutlass? How about a newer model Oldsmobile?
Breadfruit. You didn't mention breadfruit at all.

[Harold Mayo]

For operations against pirates I still prefer ARRRRRRR-15s.

ROTFLMAO!!!!

THAT is a good one....!:D

[buzz_knox]

Here's another issue no one has thought of. Should you whack the captain's parrot or not (he's a real pirate after all and all real pirates have parrots)?

A good sniper could take out the parrot and that would either:

a) drive the captain mad with grief, as well as the need to clean parrot poop and viscera off his shoulder; or

b) enrage him, so that he would send his forces in without regard for tactics in the hopes of revenge.

In scenario a, he might leave or be replaced by his second (who should be less affected by the loss of that irritating bird that was always talking about how pretty it was or demanding treats).

In scenario b, the pirates might be able to overwhelm the defenses through sheer number.

Thoughts?

[Harold Mayo]

Keep in mind that the pirates are going to be at an extreme disadvantage for several reasons other than the technological difference:

1. They will all be drunk on rum.

2. Their mobility is limited because of the peg legs.

3. They will be horrible shots because of the lack of depth perception from the wearing of eye-patches.

[Joe Demko]

What about Tinkerbell? Nobody has addressed the Tinkerbell issue.

How many pirates are wearing bandanas? How many are wearing the black Cap'n Crunch-type hat with the little skull on it? Are they key personnel or just more stylish than the rest?

Is it considered okay to attack the pirates during one the periods when they spontaneously start dancing and singing lewd sea chanties?

Are we required to spontaneously sing and dance using material from our own era? Something from Grease, perhaps?

Breadfruit still hasn't been addressed.

What's the food like on the island? Did we bring our own? (I hate MRE's).

Instead of going to fight pirates, couldn't we instead take 20 friends and go to Aruba? There's rum and wenches there. Breadfruit, too, I think.

[George Hill]

http://www.pirateadventurescapecod.com/

[Dr.Rob]

I think 500 bad guys can move a cannon in a hurry. Also pirates were known for laying siege to towns from the sea via naval bombardment.

There is likely a reason the "village" is deserted. It is a place I'd avoid.

Never heard of a swivel gun? Think 2 -man giant shotgun packed with musketballs.

I'm beginning to think you never read Treasure Island.

PS Breadfruit isn't very tasty, IMHO.

[Correia]

Golgo. :D Great ideas.

Giving some thought to who my 20 friends would be, screw fighting the pirates, we would probably join them.

[Harold Mayo]

I've never tried it, but I'll bet breadfruit tastes pretty good when you're on a tropical island with rum and wenches...:evil:

[Orange Rhesus Monkey]

You guys are hilarious. :D

I used to be a huge fan of the Treasure Island movie with Charlton Heston and Christian Bale. I can't remember if I ever read the entire book. They were barricaded in the blockhouse so the pirates had plenty of time to haul a cannon in there. You would be wise to stay more mobile. To tell you the truth I never thought about swivel guns.

Rum and wenches for all!:D

[Joe Demko]

All together now (with feeling):

"The cabin boy, the cabin boy
The dirty little nipper.."

[buzz_knox]

That's not the way I heard it.

"The Cabin boy was the captain's joy, and a cunning little nipper."

Who knows the next line?

[Joe Demko]

Here it is, much censored, with apologies to The Sex Pistols:


It was on the good ship Venus
By *****, ya shoulda seen us
The figurehead was a whore in bed
And the mast, a mammoth *****

The captain of this lugger
He was a dirty bugger
He wasn't fit to shovel ****
From one place to another

[Chorus:]
Friggin' in the riggin'
Friggin' in the riggin'
Friggin' in the riggin'
There was **** all else to do

The captain's name was Morgan
By ******, he was a gorgon
Ten times a day he'd stop and play
With his ****** organ

The first mate's name was Cooper
By ****** he was a trooper.
He jerked and jerked until he worked
Himself into a stupor

[Chorus]

The second mate was Andy
By ******, he had a dandy
Till they crushed his **** on a jagged rock
For ******* in the brandy

The cabin boy was Flipper
He was a ****** nipper
He stuffed his *** with broken glass
And circumcised the skipper

[Chorus]

The Captain's wife was Mabel
To **** she was not able
So the dirty *****, they nailed her ****
Across the barroom table

The Captain had a daughter
Who fell in deep sea water
Delighted squeals revealed that eels
Had found 'er sexual quarters

[Repeat Chorus to Fade]

[Joe Demko]

Apologies to the world at large for that last post. Sincerely.

[kenno]

I just had to revive this