[moosehunt]

It has surprised me, but I have been able to pick up 35K primers during the past 2 weeks (not preferred brand, but I got 'em)--and 20K were small rifle. I haven't (and won't) had to pay over $23/K. This is good! What are you fellows seeing? I'm still paying attention, and will continue to buy until I get 150K. I won't be caught empty handed again! I've capitalized on the availability of Ramshot powder, even though it's new to me (I've been pleased with it), and am OK on most bullets--.224 being the major exception. If I can get some of those in desired weights, I'll be a happy camper! Have I been lucky, or are you fellows seeing the same?

[dakotasin]

primers and powder are still tough to get here. primers are occasionally available, but i still cannot get h-4831, varget, h-110, h-4895, rl-22, or rl-15.

local shop tells me they aren't seeing much loosening up.

ramshot powders have sporadic availability, but i am not a fan, so i'll just keep working thru my stock before being forced into ramshot.

[Marlin 45 carbine]

not around this area. hard to find pistol for sure, some rifle around.

[floydster]

Hard to find primers here in Minn.:(

[LeverGunJunkie]

In the ATL area, some merchants have said the log jam may be breaking loose. I haven't seen it. Powder is my primary concern and haven't paid much attention to the primer situation. I've got what I need for a couple years based on my shooting frequency.

[homers]

I've placed two orders for primers and powders with two different online vendors. Both took about 4 -6 weeks to ship. I got one order two weeks ago and the other shipped two days ago.

[jjohnson]

All cleaned out six months ago and haven't seen any since.

This from Rochester, Minnesoviet, the land where NOTHINGis allowed.:banghead:

Good thing I usually keep at least a year's worth of components on hand. I won't be running out until the 2010 elections.:fire:

[ljnowell]

Nope around here we are still out. Its mostly from people capitalizing on finding anything and buying more of a component than they will use in 5 years.

[tydephan]

The stores that have the limits on what folks can buy are your best bet to score some if you catch them on the right day.

I finally found some small pistol primers after searching for over a month and literally stalking our local supply stores. Their supply truck came in Monday afternoon. Shelves were stocked yesterday morning, and they still had several boxes of LR, SR, and SP. I don't recall seeing any LP though.

[351 WINCHESTER]

LR primers are showing up as well as sr (in lesser quanties it seems). Haven't seen any pistol primers.

[model14]

Moosehunt,
Why do you need 150,000 primers?

[moosehunt]

Simple--mostly to shoot. Depending on what develops, I may sell a few to close friends (at what they cost me). Keep in mind, this includes small rifle, small pistol, large pistol, large rifle, and a few large rifle magnum.

[Antihero47]

You find them here and there online, its getting a little better.

I think this post was 20% honest question, 80% bragging.

[45ACPUSER]

Ramshot has been the most consistent powder to get along with most Accurate Powder. H110 or W296 has not been hard to find. H4895 has bee virtually unobtanium for a very long time. Varget seems to be eiher you find 1# or 8# but never at the same time. H4831SC or regular has not been hard to find. The Reloder Series...RL17 has been the one with a hard to find reputation but the rest has been easy to get in 1# and 5#.....

[mallc]

I'm still paying attention, and will continue to buy until I get 150K. I won't be caught empty handed again! I've capitalized on the availability of Ramshot powder, even though it's new to me (I've been pleased with it), and am OK on most bullets--.224 being the major exception. If I can get some of those in desired weights, I'll be a happy camper!

...its wise to post that kind of information on a public gunnery forum. 150K of ammo in the closet might give the neighbors pause to think about the possibilities.

ttocs

[Martyk]

I think this post was 20% honest question, 80% bragging.

No doubt...

[RonC133]

Paraphrasing... The manufacturers are running flat out with existing equipment. With the uncertainty in Washington, they are not willing to invest in equipment for capacity expansion.

The military demand has been relatively constant. Not an explanation of why the shortage. Not an explanation of anything, really. But when the hoarders slack off, there may be more in the channel for the rest of us.

[moosehunt]

Well, I don't have neighbors, least not close by.

Unfortunately, the source of the first 35K was out by the next day, continues to be. There is a place in the village that has Remington primers (only), has had them all week, but very pricey.

I'm think'in now that I got lucky and that things aren't improving.

I agree that the quip in The Rifleman really didn't answer or explain much.

[kestak]

Greetings,

Anyone saw the Atlanta arms ammo site? Just visit it and you'll see having a few thousands primers is NAWTHING for your neighbour compared to the nieghbours of that place....:what:

Thank you
P.S.: I have a cabinet full of powder and another cabinet with many thousands of primers (but not SR... :banghead:) and I am not violating any local ordinance.)

[joeg26er]

large rifle primers showed up recently

[Jumping Frog]

Midwayusa had Magtech small pistol primers in stock today for about an hour.

[Gryffydd]

I think this post was 20% honest question, 80% bragging.
Notice how he also didn't bother to tell us where he's managing to get this many? Nor whether he ordered them, and if so, when.

[Tony Sopranno]

Moosehunt,

No offense but don't you think 35K of primers is buying a awful lot?

Some other re-loaders would love to have just a mere fraction of that purchase. This is precisely why there is a shortage to begin with; too many people are buying exorbitantly large lots of components on the simple speculation that the gov. is going to crack down on all shooters across the board - which is pure nonsense.

I've been trying since January to buy 1 or 2 thousand sm. rifle primers w/ no luck at all. I'm hanging on to my last 600 primers for dear life - making every trip to the range and every shot fired count.

I think your posts here shows just why the manufacturers can't keep up with demand, even when they are running at full bore. Just multiple your 35K primers by another 100-200K people buying on the vapors of gov. crack-down rumors, and we have a very real shortage. I hope you enjoy the glut you've set aside. If everyone bought re-loading components in responsible quantities there would be well more than enough to go around for everyone.

...Again, I mean no personal disrespect to you at all, I'm just pointing out there is another way to enjoy this hobby, for all involved. We all like to talk about "responsibility" but that seems to go to more than just personal safety, at least in my view.

Tony... :eek: :)

[LCTitan]

Have to agree with Tony on this one. Common sense my friends! Thirty five thousand primers can help at least seven reloaders. I shoot USPSA, IDPA and Steel Plates and would not use that many primers for maybe five years or so.

[Afy]

I have about 4K Large rifle primers which will probably last me a life time.
The 3K BR2 and 1K Br4 however will not last more than the next 12 months though....
But 150K primers would last me several lifetimes I guess... unless ofcourse I start full auto shooting.

[jcwit]

buying exorbitantly large lots of components on the simple speculation that the gov. is going to crack down on all shooters

If this would "which I doubt" the gov. would also be knocking on the retailers doors atempting to find out who purchased large quanities of primers & powder and would also be watching ranges as to who is shooting excessive amounts of ammo and possibility checking who is picking up brass for reloading ect., ect., ect. Furthermore those that think of only shooting on their own property the noise would give them away. And here comes the man.

Sorta ridiculous isn't it hoarding expecting a gov. crackdown.

Also .22's are now getting hard to find for the same reasons, mayhaps we should all go out and buy up all the BB's, nothing like being prepared, just in case. Someone might be after your Red Rider gun.

[atblis]

More like the government driving costs up (taxes, environmental regulations, etc.). That is actually quite plausible.

[Monadnock]

Small rifle primers are tough to come by here in Southern NH (at retail stores).

They do show up, but you have to get lucky timing-wise in order to make a purchase.

[bfh429]

Last gun show I went to a guy had 5k large pistol primers for $145/k. No thanks. Thats the only ones I've seen lately

[moosehunt]

No secret, got them from Graf & Sons. Apparently I just looked at the right time, as there are no more--and haven't been. Ordered on Monday morning (6/15), they were here the next Monday (6/22, UPS). I don't shoot at a public range--they are rather rare around here. Don't shoot on my own property, either.

I don't regret buying one of them. Others all had the same opportunity. Do I seem to hear some whining from some who were asleep at the wheel? Don't blame me for jumping when opportunity knocked. I only regret that I didn't get more, but they were off-brand (Mag Tech) and I thought that maybeso things were loosening up and that I would soon be able to get what I wanted. I think I was wrong, just lucky. As I said, if things loosen up, I'll sell some to friends, at exactly what they cost me. Right now, I'm burning them--least till I run out of bullets, which in my case will be the first to go dry at present.

[jcwit]

No whining here just using common sense and reality regarding the gov.

[kestak]

Greetings,

I have a BO order with Grafs since more than one month for SR LR. Are you telling me you got those before me?

Thank you

[mallc]

No secret, got them from Graf & Sons. Apparently I just looked at the right time, as there are no more--and haven't been. Ordered on Monday morning (6/15), they were here the next Monday (6/22, UPS).

I'm getting close to being on a first name basis with the fine folks at Graf's. I hear a very different story from the dealer sales team. I'm going to forward your post and see why my clients have been waiting for months while you got 35K?

[Sport45]

I have a BO order with Grafs since more than one month for SR LR. Are you telling me you got those before me?

Did you have Mag-Tech primers on backorder?

I have a backorder for CCI Large Rifle that has been in since early April. They've called and sent other items on the order, but still waiting on the CCI primers.

[P51D]

I disagree with the comments stating that the article in the latest edition of the American Rifleman doesn't explain much (July 2009, pages 38-39). Actually, it's a good article and it explains quite a bit. Some excerpts, in italics, follow:

"In conversations with the major makers of primers and ammunition (ammunition shortages seem to begat (sic?) primer shortages) it appears to be a simple problem with supply and demand, with demand reaching record levels and far exceeding supply and production capacity of both primers and ammunition.

Military demand is up with some makers, but not radically so if compared with 2007 and 2008."

"One maker described demand as "insatiable," reporting record primer production already for 2009, coupled with an inability to keep up with demand."

"At the time of this writing, ammunition was starting to become more available in some calibers, but primers were being bought in quantity whenever found, and some outlets were "rationing" them to regular customers. One prominent maker of reloading tools told us that, for its most expensive progressive press, orders so far this year are double the number made last year."

My humble, and yes, subjective, interpretation of this article:

The cause is an extreme increase in the demand for ammunition, and for primers.

With the ammunition shortage, more people decided to get into reloading. This created a large demand for reloading tools (a twofold increase in at least one model of a press from one manufacturer). More reloaders led to an increase in the demand for components, leading to the primer shortage.

An increase in military demand is contributing as well; apparently not a major factor, but still a factor nonetheless.

So, more reloaders now exist. And a large number of the new and veteran reloaders are really going overboard with the quantities of the components that they are buying. The result is the shortage. No government conspiracy to coerce manufacturers to limit production for military only; no government plan to buy all available primers to effectively disarm us, etc.. Plain and simple, there are now more of us reloaders (a good thing, I think), but a large number of us are buying way more than we need (not so good). So this problem is largely self-induced. :(

The solution, I think, is to buy enough to suit your needs, but please realize that when you buy mass quantities, you’re making it tougher for your fellow reloader. How do we quantify “enough to suit your needs”? Well, that’s the tough part, isn’t it? Some of the quantities being tossed around in this post sound like “enough for the rest of my lifetime”. While I can understand that approach, I think this is certainly the wrong time for it. Again, when you’re at the trough deciding on how many to buy (with that “insatiable” appetite”), you might want to think about your fellow reloaders in line behind you. Just something to think about. ;)

Finally, if you haven’t read the entire American Rifleman article, I’d recommend reading it. If you don't have a copy, hopefully you can find it at your local library. Otherwise, this fine magazine, or the American Hunter, come with an NRA membership. The membership is very reasonably priced, and I think it is a great investment in the future of our 2nd Amendment Rights. :cool:

P51D

[jcwit]

Man am ever glad the oil companies don't work this close to supply and demand, we'd all be walking.

[Encoreman]

Well here in Ms. things are still hard to find. I was in a city 175 miles from home today and stopped in at a big local sporting goods store to look at reloading supplies. When asked what I was looking for I told him reloading supplies and he replied well that won't take you very long. He had only 209 shotshell primers, maybe 6 or 8 lbs of powder, none of which I was looking for, and the only bullets were priced pretty high. On the way home I stopped at 2 wally worlds and no bricks of 22lr plinking ammo. However I did hear from a friend who got this word from someone supposedly in the know that by December primers and powder would be on the shelves. Now he didn't say how long they would stay on the shelves, you will have to beat moosehunt and his buddy's to the store. Oh well it could be worse, we could live in a country where guns were outlawed!! Just do what I do and that is to laugh to keep from crying.

[homers]

Grafs has (as of Jun 25, 8:15pm PT) FED PRIMER SMALL PISTOL MAGNUM 5000/CS for $134.

[moosehunt]

Can't answer as to who may or may not have gotten shafted from Graf, I doubt anyone did--all I know is that they listed Mag Tech in stock, I grabbed. I've spoken with them many times and they were clear that many items, i.e. primers, were going to fill back orders before they ever hit the listings. All I can speculate is that they didn't have as many back orders for Mag Tech as what they got in, hence they got listed, though it appears not for long. Graf has always treated me square. I do have CCI on back order with them, but a seperate order. Like I said, I think I got lucky, though at the time, I just thought things were loosening up.

Regarding the Federal small pistol primers--you guys needing small rifle primers, you do realize that small pistols work fine in .223 loads for all but the hottest of hot loads? Go for 'em! The books may not tell you that, but you'll find it to be so. I speak through experience, not hear say. I've only tried them in 55gr and smaller bullets. I haven't tried the small pistol mag primers, but I sure wouldn't hesitate. I have pretty much been interchanging all the small size primers over the past 4 months, finding little difference to tell the truth. The small pistol mags are the only ones I haven't messed with (yet). Of course, that approach doesn't work with the large diameter stuff. They are $115.99 per 5K at Grafs, currently in stock.

Maybeso this is just my lucky week (or 2)--I just picked up a cherry older model (I really prefer them to the newer model) Remington Wingmaster .410 off Gunbroker for what I considered a real decent price for what I got. Still looking for a 28 gauge.

As to the Rifleman article, each to his own, but my interpretation is different.

Spay & neuter your kids!

[Eagle103]

The politics surrounding our hobby are a big if, BUT I know one thing. If our components aren't illegal 20 years from now there should be a lot of good estate sales to attend. "I don't know what he was thinking. I've been living with this stuff in the garage/basement for the last 20 years and I just want it OUT of here!".

[kestak]

Greetings,

"Man am ever glad the oil companies don't work this close to supply and demand, we'd all be walking."

They are!!!!! In fact, an increase of 1% in consumption in the USA would lead to massive shortage. We did not build any refinery since the 70s, we don't drill and world extraction of oil topped 3 years ago and is in decline everywhere....

Thank you

[RVenick]

I received this in a email for the NRA yesterday

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/may/26/democrats-in-power-hand-victories-to-nra/

It basically shows that the Dems learned their lesson from the AWB in the 90's. While they may do a lot of dumb things they are not stupid. People believe what Joe down at the gunshop says or at gunshows and go off halfcocked. Last week there was a gunshow (which I have started to boycott) and the commericials on the radio promoting it said "Get 'em while you can" this is what is driving this and the sellers are smiling all the way to the bank. I know how much I need and when I reach a point where the my inventory is getting to the point where I will run out in a few months I place a order. I order enough to get me thru around 6 months. I am not a chicken little "The sky is not falling"

[jcwit]

Greetings,

"Man am ever glad the oil companies don't work this close to supply and demand, we'd all be walking."

They are!!!!! In fact, an increase of 1% in consumption in the USA would lead to massive shortage. We did not build any refinery since the 70s, we don't drill and world extraction of oil topped 3 years ago and is in decline everywhere....

Thank you

What you say may be true but in my 50 plus years of driving I have NEVER been unable to buy all the gas I needed.

Even during the fabricated shortage during the '70's when gas was not sold from Friday night at 6:00pm till 6:00 am on Monday I went to the National Muzzleloading Shoot in Friendship Indiana and bought all the gas I wanted on a Sunday afternoon.

So yes I do believe the oil companies have a handle on their production.

Its also true the we as a nation have not built a refinery in 30 years but during those 30 years they "the oil companies" have improved their refineries and production has increased. If oil production is going down as stated I wouldn't blame the companies for not building refineries to increase production on a failing resource. Also if this is actually the situtation anyone buying these "huge gas guzzlers" are taking fuel from all the rest of us.

Hail the clown car!!!

[kestak]

Greetings,

Just 2 words: Allah Akbar!

BOUM! One refinery down. Big shortage for YEARS.

Thank you

[jcwit]

Heaven forbid it would happen, but the same thing could be said if the terrorists hit Lake City munitions.

[moosehunt]

Now that is a spooky thought!

As to what the NRA said about the Socialists (Democrats) is basically correct. My feeling is that they learned not to be overly vocal about public disarmament, especially banning/taking guns, but they are not idiots (though it is often hard to see), they still want the public disarmed--people control is the objective, so they are taking quieter, less alarming (to the general public) approaches. It appears to me that they might well be working. We'll see. I assure you, this is one time I would love to be wrong.

[Tony Sopranno]

Well I think you are wrong. So enjoy your 35K glut..! :barf:

[Tony Sopranno]

Obama said before the election he had no intention of cracking down on gun ownership. And the Washington Times article seemingly supports that standing policy.

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009...tories-to-nra/

As does the NRA's current political assessment...

Some of the ammo and component hoarders are apparently closeted (radically political) survivalists - in my view. :eek:

The one gun control nut to watch out for is California's Diane Feinstein who has many emotional self-interests in overdone gun control laws, and even she has backed down, considerably, since the Supreme Court's ruling on gun laws in Washington, DC. last year. She was barraged with letters after her half-baked statements condemning the Supreme Court's latest ruling on gun ownership issues. I was one of many telling her I could not vote for her if she persisted in her silliness.

There is no reason to hoard ammo and reloading supplies. Consider the guy waiting in line behind you. ...Common civil courtesy. :)

[moosehunt]

I agree! Don't buy to hoard, buy to use! Indeed, I am a surrvivalist, but not a radical surrvivalist. You may want to have me as a friend a year from now--or maybeso it will be 2 years. And when I say to use above, I mean every day, a couple hundred, not to hoard. It is great enjoyment!

You almost sound as though you might have voted for her before????

Washington Times article? Who do you think authored the article? (I mean in general, the paper, not a specific name). The Washington Times is owned by the socialist Obamanistas. That is properly known as propaganda. And that is exactly what it is. Also known as BS where I come from.

I'm an NRA Life Member, have been for 49 proud years, and have always been a strong supporter, but I am more than a little concerned (adversly) about their lacadaisical approach to the current situation.

I also respect your opinion, I just choose to disagree.

[41022collector]

I am neither a radical survivalist nor a Doomsayor by any means.

I did however back in the 1980s - 90's buy all the ammuntion, compnents (primer, powder, cases, bullets/shot, wads), reloading equiment back when I had the disposable funds to do so. I have more than I will ever need in my lifetime for the firearms and calibers I owned then and now.

I have seen this ebe and tide in firearm, amunition and accessories 6 times now in the years I have been collecting and shooting firearms. From what I can see it is cyclic and not just political. The current poilitics does lend itself to question the USA Gov't intent on the right to keep and bear arms, so yes, people are scared, I do not blame anyone for being scared. Those of us old enough to remember "The good old days," in firearms.... the days between the 1960's and 1990's. The even better days of 1920's through 1955. . we know the changes that can happen seemingly overnight.

I personally see nothing wrong in a free market system for anyone at anytime to buy the supplies they feel they will need, if you did not get them when you could at the lower prices, oh well, don't blame everyone else that did or are.

How many of us have kicked outseves for not buying that Colt, Smith, Ruger back in the 1980's before it totally went off the charts. Those ammo components that either are no longer on the market or are so costly it takes the pleasure away from using them. So yes, I see nothing wrong with people buying what they feel they will need for 10, 15 and 20 year planning.

I did a rough cost estimate of the components I bought back then compared to now. The total back then came to approx. $2200 and no, I will not discuss quantities. In a quick search of the exact same supplies at todays prices, it comes close to $15,700. Some of the items which were avail back then are not even made now...... like Old Style Black Talon, Old Style Silver-tip, KTW, various powders w/o taggents, Pure lead and compoents from Vulcan Lead..... etc.....

Firearms wise, 1980's total costs approx. $1400.00 - 9 firearms, no junk. Todays market prices, not list prices, again close to $16,200, when the firearms market corrects itself a little, maybe $11,000.00.

The lower end pieces I bought back then came to about $600.00 for 8 pieces. Today they are approx. $2850.

So...yeah... buy what you need, buy it now, buy it and not complain as in 15 years you will be laughing all the way to the bank when everyone else is pissing and moaning about the prices and or avail.

How many of us wished we had bought a Johnson rifle from Sarco for $180, or a Thompson demilled kit for $49.95 from Ohio Ordnance. That Colt Police Positive from Flaydermans for $55.00 or the 300 WWII Liberators that Ambercrombie & Fitch sold for $37.00 a piece. This does not even account for the more common M1 Garands, M1 Carbines, 30-40 Krags, .45's 1911 - A1.... and on and on......The lyman presses and kits for $40.00 from Rieds

So.......yeah, buy it now, be happy about it that it is avail for you now and that you can afford todays prices rather than year 2025 prices if what you want is even avail..


Sorry for the rambling...... :evil:

Regards,
Mike

[moosehunt]

Well stated my friend! Amazing, the value of antiquity, eh?

[HK G3]

I have not really been experiencing a primer shortage where I live.

There is, however, an EXTREME lack of powder around here.

[Sport45]

I did a rough cost estimate of the components I bought back then compared to now. The total back then came to approx. $2200 and no, I will not discuss quantities. In a quick search of the exact same supplies at todays prices, it comes close to $15,700. Some of the items which were avail back then are not even made now...... like Old Style Black Talon, Old Style Silver-tip, KTW, various powders w/o taggents, Pure lead and compoents from Vulcan Lead..... etc.....

Firearms wise, 1980's total costs approx. $1400.00 - 9 firearms, no junk. Todays market prices, not list prices, again close to $16,200, when the firearms market corrects itself a little, maybe $11,000.00.

The lower end pieces I bought back then came to about $600.00 for 8 pieces. Today they are approx. $2850.

So...yeah... buy what you need, buy it now, buy it and not complain as in 15 years you will be laughing all the way to the bank when everyone else is pissing and moaning about the prices and or avail.

That sounds like a lot of gain, but it's really no more than if the money had been put in a good mutual fund. In 1980 the Dow was running 8-900 and now it's 8-9,000. I don't see a lot of gain in buying more than a year or two's worth of components.

That said, I do keep more on hand than I used to. I used to keep an unopened box of 1000 of each of the primers while I was working out of another. Now I try to keep 3000 back due to the difficulty og finding them at short notice.

[Tony Sopranno]

I've never needed more than 1000 primers at a time - 150 rounds through a bolt gun takes a little time to shoot - if you're really aiming to make a little hole in a paper target. But now, I can see myself opting to buy 2000 primers at a go, just to know I can have my reloads ready exactly when I want them.

If you're tossing rounds through an auto-loader well then 200 - 300 rounds at each session no problem. But every day! ...Seems a bit obsessive to me. By and by... if everyone doubles their stockpile... well that accounts for a lot of back orders and 'will-calls' from online supply houses. I know a guy on another forum who has loaded something like 17 - 25K rounds of .223 just to have it available - and that makes me a little sick. Just wait until some of these newbie re-loaders come back with half a hand blown away. That will do more to change our national gun control laws (for the worse) than even people like Sen. Feinstein have in mind.

Moosehunt: I can respect your position too.... And... yeah, I voted for Diane Feinstein (twice) and I will not (ever) vote for her again. And I've told her that in so many words. I'd sooner vote for Alfred E. Newman.

I bet seeing my name on her list of former supporters (as declared) and indicating she can never win my vote back, holds more sway with her than from someone just mouthing-off at her ludicrous gun control positions, all of the time.

Once I realized what a complete emotionally-based idiot she is I no longer wanted her representing me, case closed.

In a nutshell, she's bad for business and bad for politics. BTW - I voted for Ron Paul in the last presidential election. And I think calling all the Dems (I'm an Indy for the past eight years now) a bunch of "Commies" is just like somebody bundling-up all the Repubs and saying because of those 'neo-con' "loonies" they're all just plain ol' neo-Nazis, which is just not the case - never was and probably never will be!

In the end, extremist rhetoric wins little or no support from most people. Most people won't buy the far-to-the-left or far-to-the-right trash talk. Most folks want something right down the middle, like in golf. The current president knows this (obviously) and has no intention of taking your guns away. It would be a really dumb (and dumber) move by him and all the wanna-be anti-gun power brokers in Washington DC to do so. ...And the U.S. Supreme Court has weighed in heavily (last year) to send a strong message to people like Sen. Diane Feinstein that her brand of crapola is not gonna fly or win any real favor among Washington elites. ...Simple!

There is no need to panic buy! It only makes the whole situation worse.

[Walkalong]

crapolaI agree, your post is mostly crapola, and way off topic.

Powder has always been relatively available here, while primers were not, except over priced at shows. The local guys would not buy them when they went up so high. They buy in limited quantity and could not price them at what they thought was reasonable, and did not want to charge that much because they felt their customers would think they were gouging them, so they just quit carrying them.

[Tony Sopranno]

I think you're drinking the Kool Aid again.

[Walkalong]

But it tastes so good. :D

[Tony Sopranno]

Then have another, on me... I never touch the stuff. :)

[Horsemany]

I agree with Tony Soprano. That's always been my position. You know what they say about decisions made in fear. Fear has created this whole shortage.

[Tony Sopranno]

Yep... hear, hear...

[Walkalong]

Sometimes fear is a good thing. It is critical to survival sometimes. Some folks are like ostrich's with their head in the sand hoping everything will be OK (just like the old Steppenwolf song)

Being prepared is never a bad thing. While I agree that folks buying a buttload of primers right now is helping to keep prices up and the shortage going longer, I am not going to blast them for doing so. I do wish they had had the foresight to buy months and years ago when it would not have compounded the problem, but they did not.

Many more will be prepared the next time than there were this time, I have no doubt. I have not had to buy primers or slow down my shooting, because I was prepared. I make no apologies for stocking up over the years and having more than I need short term.

Many gun haters are the same folks who are of the mind set that no one should have more than they "need", and that the "extra" should be taken and given to someone who is in need, usually by that someones own fault.

I am not interested in you, some politician, or some bureaucrat telling me what I "need".

I "need" more .38 bullets by the way, and some .45 Colts as well. I think I'll go order some. :)

[Tony Sopranno]

You also need some common consideration for others and a bit less fear mongering. :banghead:

[41022collector]

Tony, thats just it, many of us do not consider it hoarding or mongering. We bought what we considered we need. It is a free market system, not an allocated everyone gets the same system. For those that are prepared this whole discussion is no big deal, for those that did not, those are the people that are complaining.

I too will not appologize for being prepared.

Sport45: The gains I realized were mostly on the Colts, Smiths and compnents and ammuntition that is no longer available. The gains are in no relation to the stock market, it is truly supply and demand of the particular piece or component.

I did not buy all this stuff back then because I was scared...or even a survivalist. I am however a realist and bought it all when I had the disposable cash to do so, the 80's and 90's were very kind to me.

I guess in a nutshell, all I am saying is buy what you can afford now and not complain of the prices and buy with the future in mind. I would and have done that with anything that is not immediately perishable. Trading items and not money is what you will need. You cannot eat money, gold, diamonds and oil.

Right now, the two companies that have loading components in stock are the ones setting the prices. They can do so because they prepared.

Am I scared no..... am I prepared, yes, will I survive the next 3.5 years, I hope so, are we in for tougher times before it gets better-----yeah, you bet cha. Will any gov't get all the pieces and components I own, no way, they are too scattered, as long as I am alive and not in a camp for flu like symptoms, I will always have a percentage of what I have now due to pre planning and staging.

regards,
Mike

[tincanhunter]

Primers are impossible to find around here. A while back I purchased 1k large pistol primers. The shop had 4k so I left the other 3k for fellow shooters to consume. Now I'm running out and can't find them anywhere. Guess I should have bought a second box. On a brighter note, there's plenty of H4895 around.

[Tony Sopranno]

...thats just it, many of us do not consider it hoarding or mongering. We bought what we considered we need. It is a free market system, not an allocated everyone gets the same system. For those that are prepared this whole discussion is no big deal, for those that did not, those are the people that are complaining.

I too will not appologize for being prepared.

Sport45: The gains I realized were mostly on the Colts, Smiths and compnents and ammuntition that is no longer available. The gains are in no relation to the stock market, it is truly supply and demand of the particular piece or component.

I did not buy all this stuff back then because I was scared...or even a survivalist. I am however a realist and bought it all when I had the disposable cash to do so, the 80's and 90's were very kind to me.

I guess in a nutshell, all I am saying is buy what you can afford now and not complain of the prices and buy with the future in mind. I would and have done that with anything that is not immediately perishable. Trading items and not money is what you will need. You cannot eat money, gold, diamonds and oil.

Right now, the two companies that have loading components in stock are the ones setting the prices. They can do so because they prepared.

Am I scared no..... am I prepared, yes, will I survive the next 3.5 years, I hope so, are we in for tougher times before it gets better-----yeah, you bet cha. Will any gov't get all the pieces and components I own, no way, they are too scattered, as long as I am alive and not in a camp for flu like symptoms, I will always have a percentage of what I have now due to pre planning and staging.This thread started with a number. ..."35K" primers. I doubt many people would fire that many off in 3 years or more. There is a not-so-fine line between coming to a buffet meal and filling you plate, and filling it so high everyone notices the pile on your platter and makes appropriate commentary.... ...That simple...

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/06/ammunition_hard_to_find_as_gun.html

If 'stockpile buying' is driven by fear of something that is not truly determined as something that should be really feared, then it's based on delusional ill-thought-out reasoning and hysterical reactionary gluttony.

I don't begrudge someone buying two or three years supply of whatever. But when several 100's of thousands are doing the same, out of massed fear while short changing others their due place in line, then it's unfair and uncalled for. ...And ripe to be commented upon.

If you were shorted a place in a gasoline line because someone decided they could put extra large tanks in their SUV's (with many people doing it) you'd cry out for some sort of consumer equity - same difference. If this was going on in gasoline service stations, it would be untenable and unconscionable - same difference. How about your neighbor getting in line for a fill-up ahead of you with seven tanker trucks - enough for ...say... three and a half years worth of "normal" driving?

...If it keeps up, someone (like the gov.) may decide to resolve the problem by issuing ammo ration cards.

How would that fly? Not well I imagine... this new guy is popular; be prepared to make that not 3 1/2 years, but 7 1/2 years - like other "decider" before him.

There is a real point here and pretending to not see it does not make it any less poignant.

Regards,

[Tony Sopranno]

Primers are impossible to find around here. A while back I purchased 1k large pistol primers. The shop had 4k so I left the other 3k for fellow shooters to consume. Now I'm running out and can't find them anywhere. Guess I should have bought a second box. On a brighter note, there's plenty of H4895 around.Good man! ...Tell me about it! ...Been waiting since January and keep getting bumped off the small rifle primer line.

Powder or bullets is not the problem. Maybe not Varget or H335, but there is H4895, or Ramshot TAC, or Accurate or Alliant powders.

When I get antsy about this all, I clean my guns. I think I'm gonna wear the barrels out before I get a primer ...one! Today Cabellas just canceled my one order for primers. Thankfully, I have two more in the works. Which I will cancel gladly once I get my first 1000 or 2000 primers.

[41022collector]

Tony, honest I see the point and have been the victim of being the one not able to get something, then I learned my lesson, I now prepare for all kinds of issues - home, health, auto, self reliance, water, gas, electric and certain foods. Not a scare monger, just practical and prepared for MY fam and I to get through hard times.

Let them ration, I am set and that is the whole point on my side of the discussion. I have even shared some of my stuff with some of the guys at Stonewall and the store, but I am not going to cut myself short because someone else had not planned or prepared for themselves. ...and please let any so called gov't agency come and try and take mine to share with others, it will go bad for them. The only way I would do so is if MY Country needed what I had for their military to fight a foreign threat. Domestic threat, sorry, they are on their own with everyone else.

...and no, I would not complain about the guy or gal who has the larger tanks for the gas. I long ago prepared for gas shortage. Like I said, I have tried to plan for most problems to include our money being worth zero, national rationing of damn near everything. If they are in line in front of you, they will not be the ones to complain.

If a guy or gal wants to have 35k of primers, I say God Bless Them, I personally live in a free country in a free market system that depends on supply and demand. You either got what you need or do not, not much grey area in that.

I again do not appoligize for taking care of myself and my fam. I do not appoligize for forethought, for not being one of the people that follow the pack.

There is NO due place in line in a free market society. The people who wait their place in the so called line are the same who complain about not having something.

I personally will continue to do my best to make sure me and mine are well cared for in all aspects, to include ammo, components & reloading tools, firearms and parts for them.

I repect your opinion, but also respect mine for preparing.

Regards,
Mike

.................... now can we talk about Krispy Kream Vs Cinnabons ???

[Sport45]

Sport45: The gains I realized were mostly on the Colts, Smiths and compnents and ammuntition that is no longer available. The gains are in no relation to the stock market, it is truly supply and demand of the particular piece or component.

I was only pointing out that with a few exceptions guns are not really a great investment strategy. The government model Colt I didn't buy in 1985 for $200 can be purchased today for $1000. If I had put the $200 in the market in 1985 I'd have more than $1000 to buy the gun today, even after the "crash". So no, I don't kick myself for not buying something back then when I had the chance.

You had previously said:

How many of us have kicked outseves for not buying that Colt, Smith, Ruger back in the 1980's before it totally went off the charts. Those ammo components that either are no longer on the market or are so costly it takes the pleasure away from using them. So yes, I see nothing wrong with people buying what they feel they will need for 10, 15 and 20 year planning.


I think buying a year or so worth of primers makes sense. There's no way I see buying 10-20 years worth as being a worthwhile investment from an investment or safety standpoint. 20 year's worth of powder and primers might put my bedroom closet on some foreign countries' ICBM target list.

Cinnabons, of course, Krispy Kream isn't even in the same league!

[moosehunt]

Curious, are you the same Tony Sopranno that I saw on a TV show once? Saw you on TV in a motel once. It was a pretty good show. Don't have TV at home, so haven't seen it again.

Sounds like you two fellows have kind of agreed to disagree. You (Mr. Sopranno) talk of ordering 1 or 2K primers. When you add the $22.50 hazardous shipping fee (constant, regardless of quantity, up to a point), that makes those primers pretty pricey! That's another reason I order larger quantities at a time. Each to his own!

Spay & neuter your kids!

[41022collector]

P.S. Cap n Trade just passed, now watch and see the price and avail hit the fan of everything that uses energy to make the items you want. My recliner will feel nice during this panic as I flip the DC switch to use the solar panels and system and sell my NON carbon energy I am not using back to the grid system at cap n trade values. I do not feel I am a liability to the entire system, I feel I am an asset to the system for being prepared and not one of the people in line or begging for more. If a panel I have breaks, I have spares, if the batteries go dead, I have spares, if the 24 volt bulbs go out, I have spares. You think primers and firearms are expensive now, just wait until the Cap fee's are placed on all those items you use.

[41022collector]

LOLOLOLO Sport.... I agree Cinnabons are the ****e.......one of the few things I have not stocked up on...

[41022collector]

* Glares at Moosehunt, I think he called ME an antique LOL

[moosehunt]

Excuse me? I didn't call anybody an antique. I've been called an antique, but I didn't call anybody one. Sorry, but I think you misread me.

[Walkalong]

I think Tony is just fanning the flames to get his jollies. I have never accused someone of being a troll, but this kind of agitating sure qualifies. :scrutiny:

You also need some common consideration for others and a bit less fear mongering. :banghead:
Get a grip my friend. I hope you find primers soon at a reasonable price. :)

[lgbloader]

I think Tony is just fanning the flames to get his jollies. I have never accused someone of being a troll, but this kind of agitating sure qualifies.


You know, AC, I am with you on this. Something don't smell right :scrutiny:

LGB

[Tony Sopranno]

I think Tony is just fanning the flames to get his jollies. I have never accused someone of being a troll, but this kind of agitating sure qualifies. That would be a convenient misread. An easy way to dismiss an issue of conscience...

:confused:

[Tony Sopranno]

I repect your opinion, but also respect mine for preparing.

Regards,
Mike Mike,

Nor is your position unreasonable.

I just disagree, in spirit, regarding the apparent hording (maybe not by you) of the available supplies, when there is no real emergent need. Obama is not cutting anyone's right to bear arms and/or supplies, anymore than he will abridge a woman's right to make her own reproductive decisions, as per his own party line. This feeding frenzy is all panic and fear-based hokum.

Regards...

[Tony Sopranno]

There is NO due place in line in a free market society. The people who wait their place in the so called line are the same who complain about not having something.Mike,

There I do disagree... Try that line of logic the next time you're waiting to get into a blockbuster movie, or a popular ride at Disney World, or buying grub at the grocery store. Lines are part of life, even at the airport now, and they are universal (Asia, North America, or Europe). Without the concept there would be pure chaos.

Regards,

[Tony Sopranno]

....You (Mr. Sopranno) talk of ordering 1 or 2K primers. When you add the $22.50 hazardous shipping fee (constant, regardless of quantity, up to a point), that makes those primers pretty pricey! That's another reason I order larger quantities at a time. Each to his own!That would be an offhanded "strawman" fallacy.

[Tank45]

It seams like a lot of people are hoarding. I don't have a problem with that to an extent. In my opinion we need to get as many many new and young (by that I mean a number not irresposible) shooters involved in this sport as we can. If my generation and the ones before buy everything up as soon as we can find it the younger generations with less money and patients than us, they will turn away from the sport. To me thats the loss of a voice and vote that we need. Even during the raising of he cost of ammunition everyone complained about what they were and are paying for loaded ammunition and components. But they paid the price and bragged aout how much ammo they stored away. Quit paying the outragous prices and they will go down. It might be a boring few months spent with a fishing pole instead of a gun but we ourselves can bring the cost down to reasonable again. If your willing to pay $40 for something that should only be $30 then what do you think they will charge. I don't want anyone to take this the wrong way, but some peoples "hoarding" habits might come back to haunt them. A 21 year old college student working to pay his own way in this world is not on the same playing field as a lot of people that frequent these sites with what must be some very pretty yearly income. We need that 21 year old student to be able to shoot and enjoy this sport as much as we all have also. If we take certain loses in this game of politics involved with shooting it will not matter how many primers you have stored. We are not helping anything right now with what is going on. We are causing the shortage in ammo and components, we let them raise the prices by paying what they want, and I fear we are digging a hole for our sport by making it unabtainable for the next generation of shooters. If they can't afford to shoot or are unable to find anything to shoot, they might not really care if our ever so feared ban comes around. It will not effect them. Like I said, I hope I don't offend anyone with this post. I don't shoot like I used to. It has to do with time more than money and availability. I have a 3 year old daughter and a son coming in about 2 weeks. I just hope they can enjoy all of this when they are older also. Without paying a small fortune for a box of50 .45 Auto or 1000 large pistol primers. And I will add if you cut in a public line where people have been waiting for hours there will be problems.

[JimGun]

Does anyone have any idea which online sites are the best for having primers? I have been looking for as little as one box of primers and have found no one who isn't out of stock. Would really appreciate some info. I lost all my reloading supplies in Hurricane Ike and am just now back in my house and trying to stock up again. I was shocked at the shortage.

[mallc]

You also need some common consideration for others and a bit less fear mongering.

Mr. Sopranno's post was entirely inappropriate. Mr. Sopranno, the newest of newbies, disses Walkalong, one of the most knowledgeable, helpful members of the HighRoad and I for one am offended by his lack of manners. It one thing to have an opinion - no matter how poorly thought out. It's quite another to believe its the only correct opinion on the planet.

Perhaps Mr. Sopranno should read more and post less until he gets his bearings.

I'm posting not to offend Mr. Sopranno, but to support Walkalong.

Scott

[TEC]

Well, irrespective of political opinions (I shall keep mine to myself), I can find no small rifle primers available on line or locally in the SC area. Disappointing, as I am shooting a new CZ-527 Varmint and would love to be able to get started in hand loading some light target rounds to see if I can get MOA accuracy. I would plunk the money down today on a brass tumbler, press, dies and supplies needed to reload, except that absent the ready availability of primers, it seems foolish to make the investment and then be unable to reload. So until primers do become available, I guess I will continue to shoot factory loads and see what happens. I do believe that 1,000 rounds of small rifle primers would last me a good long time, particularly during the learning curve of hand loading. If anyone has a line on small rifle primers suitable for .223 target loads, please let me know. Thanks

[Oldtrader3]

I do not know anyplace where you can buy 1-2 boxes of 100 primers online, except by walking into your local gun shop. If you want to buy a couple boxes online Guntrader.com is probably the only place that you can find them.

I don't wish to be disrespectful to anyone on this site. Plus, I don't know what the shooting and consumption habits are of the people here. I can only speak of myself. For me, buying a 1000 primers of any size except large rifle would be hoarding more than I need. Buying 150,000 primers, for me, would make me feel pigish and as though I am taking primers away from others that also may need them in a tight market.

I don't even buy more than 2-3 boxes of 100 primers at-a-time when my local dealer has them because, firstly the local dealer does not get more than 1-2000 at any time and secondly, it is more important for me to leave some so that others may buy a few for themselves. That is knowing how difficult it is to find small primers of any kind.

Buying 150,000 primers seems to me an act with low or no regard for other shooters who may want to buy a brick themselves. Sorry if this offends anyone and I am not being trollish about this. I know some people feel that their needs are always pre-emenent in all things and they always come first.

[Horsemany]

well said Oldtrader....

[editingfx]

Keep in mind us pistol shooters can burn 8-10k a year, some much more than that.

[kestak]

Greetings,

I go through between 2000-4000 primers per month, depending of the month. For me, buying 20,000 primers is not hoarding.

Just before the Obamination got crowned, I bought 80 pounds of powder and 30,000 primers. I am down to my last 500 SR and 5000 SP primers.

Thank you

[41022collector]

quote:

There I do disagree... Try that line of logic the next time you're waiting to get into a blockbuster movie, or a popular ride at Disney World, or buying grub at the grocery store. Lines are part of life, even at the airport now, and they are universal (Asia, North America, or Europe). Without the concept there would be pure chaos.




See, there ya go Tony.....

I agree, the chaos is created by the people who wait in lines.

1. I do not go see new movies in the theater, I DVR when it comes out on cable.

2. I have the household groceries picked and delivered for a $10 fee via Simon Delivers. (My wife loves me for this luxury and I reap the benefits for it), their prices are close to 14% lower than the Giant Eagle near me, so for me, it is a win - win.

3. The last line I was in was at Honey Hut Ice Cream.....I had no fear of Obama putting a cap n trade on ice cream..........yet.... so I waited for my hot fudge sunday, but on the way home, bought some ice cream and hot fudge and fixins, so the next time we get the urge, we will just make it.

4. Last time I was at Disney was 1976 in Fla, I did not ride ever again after riding "It's a Small World," and being subjected to that music during the entire ride. (lesson learned), now I just grab an ice cream and watch all the pretty ladies.

5. Airports and TSA is why I paid for my son to become a privat pilot and have a neat lil small airport handy nearby that rents planes on que. Nuttin like loading the guns and ammo and fly fishing gear right to the plane and bypassing all the nice people using Orbitz to wait their place in line.

I think my whole point is Tony, that I plan to not be in many lines if at all possible, the one or two I end up in are due to impulse buying....I plan, prepare, adjust the plan as needed..........or as my engineering days taught me... Plan - Do - Check - Act. I use and used this same thinking with buying the reloading, firearms and other things.

BUT.... when I am in a line.... I do not gripe that the person in front of me that got my BBW spare ribs (3 carts full) before me, because I see it as my fault for not getting them earlier, I will admit however that I did gripe just a little when he paid for them with that dang food stamp card(s). * Makes Mental Note: I wonder, will they have a Reload Stamp Card.......when they begin to ration reloading components and ammo?

I do not whine, piss or moan about such things. I see a problem and an opportunity to plan and make my life and my fam's life easier or better, I do it and move on.

I honestly disagree that Tony is fanning the flames, he does have a valid point about being courtious and have manners and do good deeds for your fellow man> .....that is just not me or how I roll I guess.

Regards,
Mike

[Marlin 45 carbine]

a well thought post.
there are no small pistol primers in this area and few (pricey) LR's and LP's.

[Tony Sopranno]

See, there ya go Tony.....

I agree, the chaos is created by the people who wait in lines.
I think it's the other way around.
1. I do not go see new movies in the theater, I DVR when it comes out on cable.

2. I have the household groceries picked and delivered for a $10 fee via Simon Delivers. (My wife loves me for this luxury and I reap the benefits for it), their prices are close to 14% lower than the Giant Eagle near me, so for me, it is a win - win.
I go to the local TJ's which is most of the time a fun experience. Even the other grocery stores are catching on... Same for movies, DVD or cable works great... :)
3. The last line I was in was at Honey Hut Ice Cream.....I had no fear of Obama putting a cap n trade on ice cream..........yet.... so I waited for my hot fudge sunday, but on the way home, bought some ice cream and hot fudge and fixins, so the next time we get the urge, we will just make it.For me, I'd pass on the Baskin and Robin's lines. But for my friend's daughter and her little friends, when I take them; it's a joy to watch them get all worked up over all the sugary trappings.4. Last time I was at Disney was 1976 in Fla, I did not ride ever again after riding "It's a Small World," and being subjected to that music during the entire ride. (lesson learned), now I just grab an ice cream and watch all the pretty ladies.ditto here... It's been a while, and watching the people on line is far more interesting anyway, especially the women on a hot summer's day. The examples used were only examples... Not meant as specifics of any sort... 5. Airports and TSA is why I paid for my son to become a privat pilot and have a neat lil small airport handy nearby that rents planes on que. Nuttin like loading the guns and ammo and fly fishing gear right to the plane and bypassing all the nice people using Orbitz to wait their place in line.I hope he's full-instrument rated, for your family's safety sake.I think my whole point is Tony, that I plan to not be in many lines if at all possible, the one or two I end up in are due to impulse buying....I plan, prepare, adjust the plan as needed..........or as my engineering days taught me... Plan - Do - Check - Act. I use and used this same thinking with buying the reloading, firearms and other things.The only line I've been on, of late, is the one at Cabellas, and Natchez. ...I don't use Midway much for re-loading supplies. BUT.... when I am in a line.... I do not gripe that the person in front of me that got my BBW spare ribs (3 carts full) before me, because I see it as my fault for not getting them earlier, I will admit however that I did gripe just a little when he paid for them with that dang food stamp card(s). * Makes Mental Note: I wonder, will they have a Reload Stamp Card.......when they begin to ration reloading components and ammo?Wouldn't that be a real hoot - an Obamanation ammo ration card, with embedded free federal ammo credits? And if Geo Dubya "the Decider" did something of simialr sort it would be called a conservation compassion card, right? :eek:

Anyhow.... the next time your mouth is watering for a double chocolate sundae, with the "works," and the guy in front of you buys up all they have for his kid's birthday party, try not groaning just a bit!I do not whine, piss or moan about such things. I see a problem and an opportunity to plan and make my life and my fam's life easier or better, I do it and move on.Normally neither do I but this fear-based buying frenzy is worth a remark or two - IMHO. ...And it's easy for you to say, when you are watching all the kids on line from afar.I honestly disagree that Tony is fanning the flames, he does have a valid point about being courtious and have manners and do good deeds for your fellow man> .....that is just not me or how I roll I guess.

Regards,
Mike Doing nice things for other people has a remarkable effect on a person's overall outlook on life. The inverse of that tends to make most people kinda grumpy and Scroogey (as in bah humbug). :D

[Tony Sopranno]

I do not know anyplace where you can buy 1-2 boxes of 100 primers online, except by walking into your local gun shop. If you want to buy a couple boxes online Guntrader.com is probably the only place that you can find them.

I don't wish to be disrespectful to anyone on this site. Plus, I don't know what the shooting and consumption habits are of the people here. I can only speak of myself. For me, buying a 1000 primers of any size except large rifle would be hoarding more than I need. Buying 150,000 primers, for me, would make me feel pigish and as though I am taking primers away from others that also may need them in a tight market.

I don't even buy more than 2-3 boxes of 100 primers at-a-time when my local dealer has them because, firstly the local dealer does not get more than 1-2000 at any time and secondly, it is more important for me to leave some so that others may buy a few for themselves. That is knowing how difficult it is to find small primers of any kind.

Buying 150,000 primers seems to me an act with low or no regard for other shooters who may want to buy a brick themselves. Sorry if this offends anyone and I am not being trollish about this. I know some people feel that their needs are always pre-emenent in all things and they always come first. I'm certainly not offended by that well considered and thought out addition to this thread. Thanks...

[Tony Sopranno]

Mr. Sopranno's post was entirely inappropriate. Mr. Sopranno, the newest of newbies, disses Walkalong, one of the most knowledgeable, helpful members of the HighRoad and I for one am offended by his lack of manners. It one thing to have an opinion - no matter how poorly thought out. It's quite another to believe its the only correct opinion on the planet.

Perhaps Mr. Sopranno should read more and post less until he gets his bearings.

I'm posting not to offend Mr. Sopranno, but to support Walkalong.

ScottJust because I've posted very little on this particular THR forum does not make me a newbie to posting or to re-loading. Before posting something like that you might want to do a bit of fact checking before the fact, and not after.

Dude... I've been doing this since long before the 'Internet' came to be, and before most re-loaders even knew there was a method of posting their experiences and thoughts remotely via computer.

...Sorry if that offends you but those are the facts, not pure supposition.

There are other places to post besides here, and I have used them many times. I have more than my share of posts out there - my dues are well paid.

The last time I checked, no one needs to get permission, or any certain posting tenure, to post their thoughts and opinions here. I've broken no rules and the number of posts (by the counter) means only one thing, not the other.

BTW - on other forums something like your post would be considered slightly out of order by the resident moderator in charge. Which is why I may spend more time on other forums. ...And also why I won't be intimidated by your post. Sorry! But I must differ...

[Tony Sopranno]

Keep in mind us pistol shooters can burn 8-10k a year, some much more than that. ...Nothing wrong in using what you find you need to shoot. It's surly a personal thing, like knowing when to quit drinking. :D

[fatelk]

I'll throw in my two cents worth, overpriced as it may be.

Now, I have not contributed to this whole hoarding/availability thing, other than a brick of sp primers I bought for $22 the other day. I just don't shoot that much, myself. I also bought a couple hundred dollars worth of surplus '06 from the CMP a couple months ago, but that will last me a VERY long time.

Here's an off-the-wall thought: does anyone think that perhaps the run on guns/ammo/components has had any part in the general lack of interest in gun control in D.C.?

We all know the voting records and stated positions of the current leadership. We all know that they would love to ban everything they could, if they could. Though I can't personally share in the credit, I think that all the panic buying and hoarding has been noticed by the powers that be, and they are a little scared to address the issue right now.

Pushing gun control would be stirring up a political hornet's nest right now, and they know it very well. They're too busy with the whole socialism thing, and that's top priority.

[Tony Sopranno]

Well, irrespective of political opinions (I shall keep mine to myself), I can find no small rifle primers available on line or locally in the SC area. Disappointing, as I am shooting a new CZ-527 Varmint and would love to be able to get started in hand loading some light target rounds to see if I can get MOA accuracy. I would plunk the money down today on a brass tumbler, press, dies and supplies needed to reload, except that absent the ready availability of primers, it seems foolish to make the investment and then be unable to reload. So until primers do become available, I guess I will continue to shoot factory loads and see what happens. I do believe that 1,000 rounds of small rifle primers would last me a good long time, particularly during the learning curve of hand loading. If anyone has a line on small rifle primers suitable for .223 target loads, please let me know. ThanksI'm feeling the same way about re-loading about now... except I prefer my own re-loads to factory ammo (much tighter groups in most cases across the board). The only commercial ammo source I've found to be exceptional is Black Hills ammo, which makes really good stuff, and it's cheaper than most others out there. They make mostly .223 (variety) rounds for the military, law enforcement, benchrest shooters, and the public. :)

http://www.black-hills.com/

If I have to go back to buying manufactured ammo, this is what I'd prefer to get. This stuff fires some very tight groups. I've had some commercial rounds that are so inconsistent, I just don't use it anymore. I like cutting little circles in paper. I've also used Ultramax re-loads which worked great too.

[Tony Sopranno]

I'll throw in my two cents worth, overpriced as it may be.

Now, I have not contributed to this whole hoarding/availability thing, other than a brick of sp primers I bought for $22 the other day. I just don't shoot that much, myself. I also bought a couple hundred dollars worth of surplus '06 from the CMP a couple months ago, but that will last me a VERY long time.

Here's an off-the-wall thought: does anyone think that perhaps the run on guns/ammo/components has had any part in the general lack of interest in gun control in D.C.?

We all know the voting records and stated positions of the current leadership. We all know that they would love to ban everything they could, if they could. Though I can't personally share in the credit, I think that all the panic buying and hoarding has been noticed by the powers that be, and they are a little scared to address the issue right now.

Pushing gun control would be stirring up a political hornet's nest right now, and they know it very well. They're too busy with the whole socialism thing, and that's top priority.I agree... darn good thinking there... hear, hear..

[Nate1778]

Here is a e-mail I just got from Graf's inquiring on an order I have with them, does not sound good. This is for a sleeve of Winchester SPP.....


We do not have an ETA on when the primers will be available. We have 2000 cases of these on backorder for customers which date back to the late part of last year, so your order is quite a ways down the list.

[Gryffydd]

I got an email from Midway this morning saying than WLPs were in stock. I pulled up the product page 2 minutes after the email was sent and they were out of stock/no backorder.

Anybody know how those things work? Dd they really sell out that fast? Or does their system just suck?

[conarth]

It showed in-stock about 10 minutes after the email. Appears the email jumped the gun before the inventory system updated the website.

[lgbloader]

Which is why I may spend more time on other forums.

By all means, if you must, you must. Please do allow us to get the door for you so you can leave.

LGB

[Tony Sopranno]

I got an email from Midway this morning saying than WLPs were in stock. I pulled up the product page 2 minutes after the email was sent and they were out of stock/no backorder.

Anybody know how those things work? Dd they really sell out that fast? Or does their system just suck? Similar situation happened to me with Natchez last week. They e-mailed me and 45 minutes after the message was sent it was all gone. I was too slow to see the e-mail coming in.

There was a way to backdoor their items-listings and it showed the primers were still available, but the next Sunday they sent an e-mail saying 'no dice.'

I hope by September this will all have been a bad dream.

[Tony Sopranno]

...but some peoples "hoarding" habits might come back to haunt them. Indeed, yes!

[Eagle103]

Stopped by the old Sportsman's Warehouse today just to see what they had. Wow. Nothing but some 209's and some of the powders and many of the bullets also gone. They'd even taken price tags away for the primers so I guess that means there won't be a resolution anytime soon. Some people need to stop acting like the lady with 100+ cats.

[mallc]

Dude... I've been doing this since long before the 'Internet' came to be, and before most re-loaders even knew there was a method of posting their experiences and thoughts remotely via computer.

Oh! well then...WWRFP??

Scott

[Horsemany]

Oh! well then...WWRFP??

Wanna explain that for those of us on the short bus?

[jcwit]

Dude... I've been doing this since long before the 'Internet' came to be, and before most re-loaders even knew there was a method of posting their experiences and thoughts remotely via computer

Whoopee, I've been reloading since before the hand held calculator.

Not to go to far off topic I brought up my Auto expense book for last year. Gas expence for one of my vehicels was $665 for 220 gals., there was a time 220 gals would have cost me less than $40.00. And they claim we're going to have more inflation?

[Oldtrader3]

Reloading, despite hoarding and shortages, is the only way around these parts to get shootable pistol ammunition or at least quality ammuntion. None of our local dealers have any ammunition for most pistols or revolvers. Finding a couple 100 pistol primers occasionally at a local dealer's is the only way to keep shooting.

Large rifle primers seem to be in better supply than pistol primers. Small rifle primers and small pistol primers are not available anywhere that I know of without a long wait. Some seem to think that the situation is improving. I hope so and look forward to being able to buy enough primers to at least shoot my short guns regularly.

[Tony Sopranno]

Dude...
Quote:
Dude... I've been doing this since long before the 'Internet' came to be, and before most re-loaders even knew there was a method of posting their experiences and thoughts remotely via computer.

Oh! well then...WWRFP??

Scott
_______You're quoting me out of context. And that is fallacious. Wanna start over again? SIR! :eek: (The rest of what I would like to say is edited out for the sake of civility) Have a good day!

[Tony Sopranno]

Wanna explain that for those of us on the short bus? I've no idea what he's driving at either.

[Gryffydd]

Got two more Product Availability notices from Midway. The first was for Remington LPs, which I didn't get till about 30 minutes after it was sent. When I went to the product page it showed available. When I tried to add them to my cart it said they were out of stock. Another 10 minutes or so later and the product page showed out of stock.
Then I got one for Federal LPs. This one I got 4 minutes after it was sent...Went to the page, it showed out of stock. So I commenced hitting refresh on the page every 10 seconds or so, hoping they'd show up as available after 10 minutes or so as someone mentioned earlier in this thread. I'm now 30 minutes out from that email and it's still showing out of stock :(

[lgbloader]

THR...

[mallc]

Dude... I've been doing this since long before the 'Internet' came to be, and before most re-loaders even knew there was a method of posting their experiences and thoughts remotely via computer.

Sorry Tony, but I just promised another member that I wouldn't feed the trolls...

As for WWRFP = What Would Reloader Fred Post? Fred is another great contributor to the High Road who already knew enough not to feed you!

Scott

[41022collector]

I was on the phone with a friend of mine this morning, he is one of the mfg managers at CCI, Primer Division. Quote from him "We (meaning CCI) are back ordered worlwide to August 2011." When I asked what the problem is, 1. They lost 25% capability due to a machine failure in which the tooling will not be in until Sept 09. 2. South American and African sales are close to 420% higer than normal. 3. Many opf the primers are being used on their mfg lines for ammo, so this diverts close to 30% of their primer capacity to their own operations. 4. The recall of primers last August srp's, took many primers off the market, they are still trying to catch up, the recall was due to internal anvil corrosion. The recall was only to stocking dealers and wholesalers, so the recall did not reach the consumer except the market dried up.

I hope this helps clear up some of the issues on primers. He does not feel the primer avail will be much better until Jan 2011. He also stated he expects consumer prices due to supply and demand will be close to 20 -50% higher depending on the specific compnent this early fall on primers and ammunition. ...............so read em and weep or plan for the worse and smile.

I am thinking of trading some of my hoard of supplies for .410's and .22lr pieces..... I especially want a Bond or American Derringer in .410 and NAA 22lr Mini Revolvers with 1 1/8" barrels. If I do, I will post a wtt in the proper catagory. I can prob let 10% of my supplies go w/o really bothering the space time warp field and still sit pretty with what I have left. I traded 30,000 srp to a table dealer at a gun show, sold 20,00 mixed primers to Stonewall. I can prob let 100,000 mixed primers and 50lbs of mixed powders go w/o much of an upset and I will even do it at 10% below Mfg list retail prices, so no gouging by me .

* tips hat to Tony.....Tony see, I can share.... but I also know, No good deed goes unpunished !!! :)))

Regards,
Mike

[Tony Sopranno]

tips hat to Tony.....Tony see, I can share.... but I also know, No good deed goes unpunished !!!:what: Well good on you Mike... I knew you had it in you. Kudos!

[Tony Sopranno]

Sorry Tony, but I just promised another member that I wouldn't feed the trolls...

As for WWRFP = What Would Reloader Fred Post? Fred is another great contributor to the High Road who already knew enough not to feed you!

Scott That's great news... don't forget it though. :) Bye!

[tincanhunter]

Hehehehe - I just picked up 1k large pistol primers and I'm not saying where :p. The owner of the shop is rationing primers, one box per person, to try and cut down on hoarding. This was fine with me since I don't want to contribute to the hording problem and 1k will last me a while :).

[lgbloader]

Thr....

Lgb

[Guinny_Ire]

Was reading Lyman's in the porcelain library last night and they mentioned some municipalities have 10k limitations of primers on property. You have to wonder how many are breaking laws they either know or don't know about.

[Nate1778]

Any of you over stocked Kentucky boys want to help a fellow Kentuckian with a sleeve of SPP........

[jtmo3]

Hey gryff, I went to Midway a couple weeks ago to pick up an order. They had a couple pallets of primers sitting there. I said, I got an email from you this morning about having primers in stock. I got the email about 2 minutes after it was sent. Went to the site and it showed out of stock. The guy taking care of my order told me that they use a service to send out those emails. By the time they contact the service and the emails get sent out, items like primers and other highly wanted items are usually gone already. He said the only reliable way to get them when Midway shows them in stock is to be on the website and time it for when it actually gets marked available. I told him I really do have better things to do than sit on their website refreshing constantly.

John

[jcwit]

Was reading Lyman's in the porcelain library last night and they mentioned some municipalities have 10k limitations of primers on property. You have to wonder how many are breaking laws they either know or don't know about

Not only this but many insurance companies have limits for primers and/or powder and if one should happen to have a fire--no coverage!

[Grump]

My Cabela's order from April is still being pushed back. Figured since I was waiting, I'd order a coupla boxes of SPPs as well, so I added those to the order. Latest e-mail says maybe July 30 for those.

The rifle primers were supposed to be in Saturday or Monday. No shipped notice...

If this keeps up, I'll just get in line with someone else and wait for THEM to get some too. Usually kept 1-2K of everything in stock. Now I'm down to 300 or fewer LRs.

[danielwcasey]

ok I am new here and new to reloading. A friend got me started and right in the shortages but i have only buy what i want to use fairly soon and i know that some of you will say what if this and what if that but come on people use some common sense. I try to think about the guy next to me that might want some. Was talking to a guy in front of me, who by the way gave me 500 LR primers, he said a man in front of him bought a pallets worth of .223, before companies started putting limits on it, said it was 64,000 dollars. Have heard the same story from 3 people. He said he asked the guy to sell him a couple of boxes, the man was gonna charge double. Now that is ridiculus

Sorry so long with no point other than think about the next guy

[Tony Sopranno]

...he is one of the mfg managers at CCI, Primer Division. Quote from him "We (meaning CCI) are back ordered worlwide to August 2011." When I asked what the problem is, 1. They lost 25% capability due to a machine failure in which the tooling will not be in until Sept 09. 2. South American and African sales are close to 420% higer than normal. 3. Many opf the primers are being used on their mfg lines for ammo, so this diverts close to 30% of their primer capacity to their own operations. 4. The recall of primers last August srp's, took many primers off the market, they are still trying to catch up, the recall was due to internal anvil corrosion. The recall was only to stocking dealers and wholesalers, so the recall did not reach the consumer except the market dried up.
:what: August 2011 is a long way off. With the present state of wildcat hording I'm guessing a kind of black market will flourish over this, once things sorta stabilize. The biggest problem is getting the primers from one place to another by UPS, and HazMat fees and regulations - that is if you're gonna pay what ever's the going price. Does anyone know how to get a national list of UPS authorized HazMat packagers?

[nhm16]

Not only this but many insurance companies have limits for primers and/or powder and if one should happen to have a fire--no coverage!

This is usually governed by NFPA 495, which is often adopted by municipalities as an ordinance. Usually the insurance policy language has something that says violation of ordinance/code = no coverage.

[angus6]

Felt really odd this afternoon leaving the gun shop and not grabbing a few thousand srp just cause they had a sh*t load on the shelf ,did grab spp at the next stop as I've got a buddy mooching off my stash.
So today I ran on to srp / lr/ spp/lpp/ and a couple different magnum primers

[Gryffydd]

WLP Primers are in stock at MidwayUSA, just bagged a case. w00t!
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=619596

[Gryffydd]

...And they're gone.
Hope you guys got some :)

[Professor Thump]

Reloading, despite hoarding and shortages, is the only way around these parts to get shootable pistol ammunition or at least quality ammuntion. None of our local dealers have any ammunition for most pistols or revolvers. Finding a couple 100 pistol primers occasionally at a local dealer's is the only way to keep shooting.

Large rifle primers seem to be in better supply than pistol primers. Small rifle primers and small pistol primers are not available anywhere that I know of without a long wait. Some seem to think that the situation is improving. I hope so and look forward to being able to buy enough primers to at least shoot my short guns regularly.

Trying to buy ammo from stores was impossible in Indy. That is why I am starting to reload pistol loads. It is now more cost effective to reload for pistols also. (This year at least)

[Nate1778]

I got e-mail notification today on WSP in stock at Midway, still never saw the Buy it button pop up.

[Marlin 45 carbine]

when found primers this area are going for 2X pre-obama. or actually 'pre-primarys' was when it seemed to start, when obama took the dem nod.

[angus6]

Widener's has had Wolf primers for over 30 hrs now

[homers]

http://www.sinclairintl.com

Has Sellier and Bellot small and large rifle primers in stock.

[Gryffydd]

Has Sellier and Bellot small and large rifle primers in stock.
Rifle primers only...and $36/1000 before shipping/hazmat. Ouch.

[wmurphy]

I was on the phone with a friend of mine this morning, he is one of the mfg managers at CCI, Primer Division. Quote from him "We (meaning CCI) are back ordered worlwide to August 2011." When I asked what the problem is, 1. They lost 25% capability due to a machine failure in which the tooling will not be in until Sept 09. 2. South American and African sales are close to 420% higer than normal. 3. Many opf the primers are being used on their mfg lines for ammo, so this diverts close to 30% of their primer capacity to their own operations. 4. The recall of primers last August srp's, took many primers off the market, they are still trying to catch up, the recall was due to internal anvil corrosion. The recall was only to stocking dealers and wholesalers, so the recall did not reach the consumer except the market dried up.

I hope this helps clear up some of the issues on primers. He does not feel the primer avail will be much better until Jan 2011. He also stated he expects consumer prices due to supply and demand will be close to 20 -50% higher depending on the specific compnent this early fall on primers and ammunition. ...............so read em and weep or plan for the worse and smile.

I am thinking of trading some of my hoard of supplies for .410's and .22lr pieces..... I especially want a Bond or American Derringer in .410 and NAA 22lr Mini Revolvers with 1 1/8" barrels. If I do, I will post a wtt in the proper catagory. I can prob let 10% of my supplies go w/o really bothering the space time warp field and still sit pretty with what I have left. I traded 30,000 srp to a table dealer at a gun show, sold 20,00 mixed primers to Stonewall. I can prob let 100,000 mixed primers and 50lbs of mixed powders go w/o much of an upset and I will even do it at 10% below Mfg list retail prices, so no gouging by me .

* tips hat to Tony.....Tony see, I can share.... but I also know, No good deed goes unpunished !!! :)))

Regards,
Mike
I spoke with someone at CCI a while back, and got some other information. In late June, they were to bring a new primer line up.

Why are they servicing South American and African accounts when they can't keep up with orders in the US? I see where their loyalty lies...

[depoloni]

Wolf primers (SP, LP, SR, SRM, LR, LRM I think) in stock for now at Widener's.

Finally ran into my last brick of SP's this week so ecstatic to pull 5k SP and 1k LRM, must compliment their timing and the heads up of a friend, so passing it along in like fashion.

Most around $28-30, think my "5k" was 132 even before hazmat. I'll take it.

[Professor Thump]

We ordered WOLF primers yesterday but it will take a week to ship. Today they are not available in small pistol. They must have gotten overloaded with orders. They are not even taking calls today.

[atblis]

Why are they servicing South American and African accounts when they can't keep up with orders in the US? I see where their loyalty lies...
Because you can mistreat the US market, and they'll always come back for more.