[pohill]

So far, in the past few years, I've had three double-chamber fires, the most recent happening yesterday in my Paterson (three different guns, all .36). Each time, the chambers were the 4th and 5th in line.
The fault? Mine. The culprit? My Lee .380 mould. The balls cast from this mould are irregular and misshapen. I knew it was going to happen yesterday but I kept shooting until it did (15 grs of BP). I even stepped out from the firing range stations (no one else was there) because I knew it was coming. It was a double bang, a little extra flash and smoke (the "planned" ball hit the target - the 2nd went off harmlessly to the ground at a 45 degree angle, as the 1st two double fires had done).
All three times I had lubed the balls - the first had a lube pill under it, the second had Crisco over it, this one yesterday had PAM sprayed over it.
Yep, it was the shape of the balls that caused it in these cases. Each ball even shaved a ring of lead when rammed. The cap on the last chamber was unfired.
By the way, anyone have any luck ordering a Lee or Lyman roundball mould? They're backordered everywhere (even the companies that list them In Stock are a few months out from having them).

[TMM]

is it just me, or would PAM not work too well to seal the cylinder?

and, could someone enlighten me on how a cylinder could chainfire even if the ball shaved a lead ring?

TMM

[BHP FAN]

Pam isn't really what you want to use.Crisco works.Use unsalted.When the ball shaves a ring ALL the way around you have a good seal.Crisco or Wonder Lube are insurance against chainfire,and also keep any fouling soft.If you STILL have a chain fire,suspect loose caps.I've had the dreaded rear of the cylinder chain fire myself.First round went off,then the next two.One of the two ''extra'' shots bounced of the wedge,driveing it from the gun,and sending it off to parts unknown.When the smoke cleared,I found myself holding onto the grip of the pistol with the cylinder and barrel between and slightly in front of the toes of my cowboy boots...Make sure your caps fit,and if they do not, buy either different caps,different nipples,or both.

[pohill]

Like I said, I am 100% positive it was the poorly cast roundballs that caused the double fire, shavings or not. And, the caps are fine. As far as PAM as a lube - try it. I've used Crisco and lube pills for years, but PAM (a vegetable spray) leaves more residue after the first shot than Crisco or Bore Butter ever would. You've seen what's left of Crisco after the first shot, right? Try PAM.

[mykeal]

could someone enlighten me on how a cylinder could chainfire even if the ball shaved a lead ring?
A poorly formed ball is most likely not a sphere. When it's swaged into the chamber it can be, in fact will likely be, turned as the ring is being shaved. Result: a complete ring, but the ball turned a bit so there's a void on one side. The turning is due to uneven force caused by the irregular shape - different amounts of surface area in contact with the cylinder. Whether the ball comes to rest with a void between it and the chamber is really a bit of a crap shoot, but it can happen.

[arcticap]

What I want to know is if the PAM is flammable enough to have a flash point that could contribute to the problem? It probably has additives and may not be a pure product.
Could it flame up inside the chamber? If some kind of vaporization occurs due to being exposed to high heat, then maybe PAM could be a contributory factor.
Or maybe it's a combination of the imperfect balls & the vaporization of the PAM?
What if the PAM causes the lubricated balls to move under recoil?
I guess the same thing could happen with any kind of grease placed over the balls, but it usually isn't in a liquid before it's applied.
Who knows if it matters at all....
Isn't speculation just grand? :rolleyes:

[pohill]

But, I only used the PAM during one chainfire. I used Crisco and a lube pill the other two times, on two other guns. The common denominator is the .380 mould that casts un-round balls.

[arcticap]

In any event, if using imperfect balls or not, I believe that an over powder wad or card would provide better protection for the powder from flames in the proximity to the front of the cylinder.
Grease is primarily a lubricant and because it melts into a liquid, any protection that it offers is only temporary. Of course tight, friction fitted balls do offer primary protection. But in this case you're saying that the fit is not good enough. And that may be true for many guns.
That's why I think that over powder wads or cards would offer better primary protection for the front end of each chamber & powder load. Then the balls would only need to provide secondary protection.
And when friction is necessary for the balls to grab on to and hold the chamber walls better during recoil, why lubricate them with a self-defeating liquid?
It simply might not matter as much to add a greasy lubricant if one is using a wad or card.
Otherwise using imperfect balls might be just fine under most circumstances.
What if some chambers are beveled and don't have perfectly straight walls?
Then even perfect balls still might not offer as much protection as a wad or card would.
As long as the mouth of the chamber has a smaller diameter than the rest if the chamber [walls], the balls won't grab as well no matter how much of a lead ring is cut upon loading them. :scrutiny:

[BHP FAN]

hmmm...you might want to ''tap'' the bottom of the mold on a chunk of 2x4 to align them before you pour,next time.

[sltm1]

pohill, if you're sure the balls are the problem, and you were sure you would have a chain fire, then why did you keep using them? A new mold is only about $22.00, a new hand isn't available yet on the open market. I have a 50cal mold that sometimes doesn't align perfectly every time, those balls go back into the pot. Are any of the ones you cast useable?

[BHP FAN]

Hornady makes some pretty good ones for a lot less than a new hand....Speer,too.

[pohill]

I've been trying to buy a new mould for awhile but everyone is out of them (even the companies that list them In Stock are 6 weeks out). I have a .375 that I'll go back to using.
Why did I keep using the imperfect balls? I wasn't positive they were the cause, but after three times, I'm positive now.
These guns were actually designed to handle a double fire safely. I don't think I'd mess around with an imperfect .454 ball and twice the powder, though. I am going to retire this mould - it is FUBARed.

I did have one double fire while using a lube pill (beeswax, paraffin) over the powder.

Has anyone ever heard of a multiple chamber fire using Pryodex? I don't think it could or would happen.

[BHP FAN]

If that's a Lee mold send it back to them.They'll repair it,or replace it.

[pohill]

I think they only warranty them for two years. I've been trying to reach them.
I have several Lee moulds and they're great - .375, .454, .457, .490. I wanted a .535 and a new .380 but no one has them now.

[GRIZ22]

I have always used wheel bearing grease over the balls and have never had a chainfire.

[arcticap]

This outfit lists both the Lee .380 & .535 RB molds:

http://muzzleloadingandmore.com/products/accessories/molds_round_balls/index.htm

[Ginormous]

GRIZ22, don't you encounter gummy fouling when you shoot BP with a petroleum product for ball lube? It seems that's a likely scenario with your choice of lubes.

[Hellgate]

You might want to slightly chamfer the edges of each chamber. Sometimes there is an overhang of metal when the face of the cylinder is machined and the lip shaves off an out of round shape and you can get a chainfire. Chamfering eliminates the edge so you get a round shape when the ball is rammed. Then apply grease of your choice.

[pohill]

All three double-fires happened in different guns with balls cast in a damaged Lee .380 mould.
All three times it involved the next to last and last ball in the cylinder.
Each time, I used either a lube pill under the ball, or Crisco and PAM over the ball.

My conclusion - this was not a real chainfire, but a double-chamber fire, caused by badly cast roundballs. Not the caps, not damaged cylinders, just out of shape balls that did shave a ring of lead (probably not a round ring).
By the time the next to last and last shots were fired, whatever lube/grease, etc that was over/under the balls had dissipated to the point that it would not stop a spark from entering the cylinder past the out-of-shape ball.

Could a chainfire/multi-chamber fire happen for other reasons? I'm sure. But that was the reason these times.

[JamesKelly]

Trackofthewolf.com says they have cast .380 balls in stock.

When I first used my Lee molds I paid for not reading the directions.
Lee, and a lot of other people, say to lubricate the various alignment widgits & sprue plate with either a graphite-rubbing alcohol suspension, Rapine brand available from dixiegunworks.com, or else some silicone lube. I use the graphite stuff. The balls are still less than perfectly aligned, but a whale of a lot better than before I gave in & Followed the Instructions/Read the Directions.

BoreButter/Crisco/parafin +beeswax +mutton tallow, whatever organic grease over the balls is said to reduce chance of chain fire. So do Oxyoke lubed wads placed over the powder, under the ball.

Awfully important to have caps that fit snuggly. The supposedly same size cap, e.g. #10 or #11, from two different manufacturers will be two different sizes.

[pohill]

I ordered a .380 Lee mould from Track of the Wolf last week but they're backordered, even though they're listed on the site as In Stock. I've ordered the roundballs from them before but I'd rather have a mould. All of my other Lee moulds are fine -.375. .454., .457., .490 (and I do follow their directions). This .380 mould was never quite right - I should have sent it back years ago, but...
I never had a double fire in any other caliber (just when using these .380 balls).
I pinch #11 caps on and they work fine.

[Smokin_Gun]

Pohill is it deformed spherically or marks and lines marblin' the outside of the balls. Jus curious... Are the mold halves mared or still smooth jus' misaligned.

[pohill]

The sprue (holes) are too big so the balls have a high spot. This mould is just a bad one (maybe I damaged it at some point - not sure).

[Smokin_Gun]

Before tossin' in the garage... I'll take a look at it as I have one jus' like it. Lees are suppose to be almost sprueless. But I sent one back that was mismatched and wouldn't flow lead fast enough...and the handle snapped and the wood broke.

[bonza]

Pohill, I have found that running a batch of RBs in a vibratory case cleaner will often get them a bit rounder. It will certainly remove the sprue nub & seam lines, which is also a bonus in my opinion.

[scrat]

Pohill i think we should put you in time out and sit in the corner for a while. hahaha buddy you need to be carefull you have been pretty lucky

[pohill]

I contacted Lee about the mold and they said that if it's older than two years, they'll sell me a new one at half price. $12.00 shipped for a new .380 mold. But, they're not making them now so it might take awhile to get it.
Can I do my time out in a Federal prison with inside traders?

[scrat]

lol hahahahah