[Mark Tyson]

http://www.policeone.com/policeone/frontend/parser.cfm?object=News&operation=full_newsline&id=70437

Gangs have grenades, say police

10/19/2003

Police investigating a murderous family feud in Sydney's south-west failed to tell colleagues that the gangs involved have access to rocket-propelled grenades, according to a newspaper report.

The Australian said today that the footsoldiers in the feud, which left two people dead in suburban Greenacre last week, have access to rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs).

The paper alleged that officers investigating the murder of 22-year-old mother of two Mervat Hamka and Ziad Abdulrazak, 24, discovered an RPG inside the Greenacre home in which the pair were sheltering.

Police handling security at the Rugby World Cup had to request confirmation that an RPG had been seized, the paper reported.

Chinese or Russian-made RPGs are a staple weapon of third world conflicts and are usually deployed against armour or bunker positions.

The newspaper did not identify the sources on which the story was based.

[Mark Tyson]

Military weapons in hands of gangs

10/18/2003

By John Kidman, Frank Walker and Eamonn Duff
October 19, 2003
The Sun-Herald

Police Commissioner Ken Moroney yesterday offered to speak personally with anyone giving information on the spate of deadly shootings that have shaken Sydney.

The commissioner's offer is the latest desperate attempt to break the wall of silence in an escalating battle with heavily armed gangs involved in crime in the south-western suburbs.

Yesterday, the man who survived a double murder in Greenacre on Monday night was taken back to the bullet-riddled house as detectives executed a search warrant.

Ali Hamka lost his wife Mervat and friend Ziad Razzak after a drive-by shooting saw his home sprayed with a shower of more than 100 bullets.

An investigation into the current spate of gun crimes by The Sun-Herald has exposed a horrific new dimension to the city's organised gang culture: some are now armed with weapons of war.

Grenades have been found at the scenes of two recent gang attacks, while police are investigating reports that one group has acquired an assault rifle fitted with a grenade launcher. Some believe the weapons to have been imported from the war zones of the Middle East.

The investigation shows drive-by shootings and attacks are now occurring with a new and frightening regularity.

A research project undertaken by the NSW Opposition estimates that a potentially life-threatening firearms incident now takes place somewhere in NSW every 43 hours.

With almost unlimited access to handguns and in some cases, military-styled assault weapons, at least six ethnic-based rival groups have been engaged in tit-for-tat bloodletting across just a handful of Sydney suburbs for the past 18 months.

At least 118 drive-by shootings, kneecappings, murders, armed robberies and other gun offences have occurred since March.

Yet these are simply the incidents which have been reported by the media, with the real number estimated to be higher still.

While official statistics on gang shootings are not kept, Mr Moroney yesterday described the current state of lawlessness as a form of "urban terrorism" and as the worst he had seen in four decades.

"They are urban terrorists. They are disturbing the safety, security and wellbeing of the community. These people are criminals and murderers. They are not frightened of the prison system. They are not frightened of the police.

"There is a culture within these people, a belief system within these people that makes them not frightened. We have got to be able to break that down, and in order to break it down there are a variety of community leaders who are earnestly seeking to work with us to provide an inroad to these people."

Mr Moroney hit back at Opposition police spokesman Peter Debnam who had said Sydney was being ruled by 1000 men armed with guns rather than police and government.

"I find comments that there are 1000 guns on the streets alarmist in the extreme, and not helpful to the resolution of the issue," Mr Moroney said.

But police sources say heavily armed rivalsyndicates fighting primarily over drug turf have been "running out of control" in the Bankstown-Fairfield area since at least mid-2001. The past 10 months had witnessed a frightening escalation in both the gang's access to weaponry and willingness to kill, they said.

Following last Monday's double murder at Greenacre, police recovered more than 100 spent .45 and .22 calibre bullets along with two unfired semi-automatic pistols.

However, The Sun-Herald has learned that detectives are probing reports that those responsible may have originally intended to blast the modest fibro home with a grenade-launching rifle.

A live grenade was also discovered concealed in a freezer inside the house, while in another gang-related attack at Fairfield earlier this year, a grenade was lobbed into a backyard but failed to explode.

Semi-automatic pistols and a military assault rifle were used to execute 34-year-old father-of-four Ali Abdulrazak at Lakemba on September 29. His 24-year-old nephew, Ziad Razzak was killed in Monday's drive-by assault at Greenacre.

Police insist they know who is behind the killings but lost trace of their suspects following an ill-timed tactical response raid on a home at Punchbowl in the wake of Mr Abdulrazak's murder about six weeks ago.

Strike force police believe the suspects have abandoned their regular hideouts and are "house-hopping" with the help of friends and relatives whilst playing a deadly game of cat and mouse with their enemies.

The gangs-gun debate has also caused a troubling split along rank lines within the police force, The Sun-Herald has learned.

Faced with evidence of up to two dozen unsolved gang shootings being investigated by Fairfield police alone, one detective is known to have written to Deputy Police Commissioner David Madden with his concerns late last year.

Mr Madden has so far not responded to the claim.

An internal police inquiry is also said to be underway into complaints lodged by detectives over a senior officer's insistence that the Bankstown area did not have a problem with gangs or drugs, earlier this year.

[Pilgrim]

"They are urban terrorists. They are disturbing the safety, security and wellbeing of the community. These people are criminals and murderers. They are not frightened of the prison system. They are not frightened of the police.


Sounds like a good plot for a movie by Akira Kurosawa.

Pilgrim

[RTFM]

Good thing there is strict gun control laws there.

And a classic example. Ignore the problem, then there must not be one.

An internal police inquiry is also said to be underway into complaints lodged by detectives over a senior officer's insistence that the Bankstown area did not have a problem with gangs or drugs, earlier this year.

[SDC]

Say it isn't so; criminals are ignoring the law? Gee, there ought to be a law about that...:rolleyes:

[Skunkabilly]

You know, at a gun show, you can just walk up and buy one of those nasty things, without a license, registration or background check. :rolleyes:

Did you know 27 children die each day from RPGs? And the NRA is allowing all this!

[Futo Inu]

After all, aren't they illegal or something.

They may not be frightened by the police, but you're flat wrong Mr. Moroney or whoever said that - the criminals most assuredly ARE frightened of the prison system - well, ok they are frightened of prison, to be sure - but perhaps not the "prison system" - therein lies the rub, the "system" part of that includes the liklihood of the laws being enforced. Obviously they're not being enforced very well there. If the gov't were to do what has actually been PROVEN to reduce crime (by Lott and many many others), and that is: increase crime detection rates (relative to total crimes - this requires awareness/staffing/investigation), increase crime arrest rates (relative to crimes reported/detected - this requires investigation and beat policing), increase prosecution rates (this requires prosecution budgets and good police work to lay the groundwork), increase conviction rates (this requires quality prosecutions), increase sentencing lengths (this requires legislative action and tough judges). These are the many steps to make sure the criminals GO TO said prison, which they do in fact already fear, and which makes them thus fear the "prison system", aka the "criminal justice system". The ONE thing that all research has proven for positive, for certain does NOT work, is so-called "gun control" measures - but these continue to be the politicians' darling fixes - because since the politicians KNOW that they don't work, they lead to increased crime, and thus increase public fear, which keeps said politicians in office by continually giving them something to "fix" and make hay about. Actually arresting and sentencing criminal offenders to long prison terms for all violent crimes would actually work - then the public would focus on what those rascal are or are not doing about the economy and other issues, which gets them thrown out of office. It's not that complicated to understand, is it?

[greyhound]

You know, this may be the most un-PC thing I have ever said, but most of the names of those involved seem to be Arab sounding.

Could this maybe a problem with some immigrants bringing quarrelstribal issues over from the old country?

No proof whatsoever, and I readily admit that Arab sounding names does not preclude them from being born and bred Aussies....

[Mark Tyson]

You know, this may be the most un-PC thing I have ever said, but most of the names of those involved seem to be Arab sounding.

I thought Australia had very strict immigration laws, making it nigh on impossible to get in, wherever you're coming from.

[keederdag]

Yea, I had been told the same?.....Any Aussie's out there?:confused:

[fallingblock]

Once upon a time:( .

During P.M. Gough Whitlam's years, the idea of a "Multicultural Society" became a goal of Australian immigration policy.

Many of the immigrants who now arrive in Australia are classed as "political refugees" and some are insufficiently investigated before being granted asylum.

Many of the members of the gangs mentioned are the children of immigrants who arrived after the Vietnam war. The parents have in some cases had problems assimilating into Australian society and in some cases the appeal of ethnic gang menbership is too strong for the new generation to resist. Australia took a proportionately large number of refugees from the Middle East over the years, and their ethnic tensions seem to have been imported with them.

One thing for sure....confiscating hundreds of millions of dollars worth of firearms from licenced gunowners has done nothing to discourage violence in Australia!:fire:

Australia's experience should give pause to those who advocate "Cultural Diversity" at any price.....but it won't. :scrutiny:

[4v50 Gary]

May be Arabic sounding names, but they could be SE Asians (think Indonesia). Don't matter what race, ethnicity or religion - dirt is dirt.

[P95Carry]

With almost unlimited access to handguns and in some cases, military-styled assault weapons, at least six ethnic-based rival groups have been engaged in tit-for-tat bloodletting across just a handful of Sydney suburbs for the past 18 months. Great eh ... similar sorta deal in UK in places .. if not now - later.

Just shows eh ... get them nasty guns ''off the streets'' and all will be well .. the BG's can have the battlefield all to themselves ... and there's F all anyone is gonna be able to do about it.

Wake up - politico's .... see where the REAL problems lie .... and let the law abiding citizen be able to protect himself, and his own. Not to mention some real deterrant value too.

Shall we quote ''society'' .... ''armed'' and ''polite'' .... naw .... that's hogwash of course.:banghead: :fire:

[Deadman]

:rolleyes:

The allegations of drug dealing gangs having access to RPG's in Sydney has yet to be proven.

Although the police admitted that one of the persons detained had access to a hand grenade, it turned out to be just a smoke grenade.

The arabic sounding names are due to the fact that most of those involved in this alleged 'wave' of violence are of Lebanese extraction.

As for the aforementioned 'wave' of violence. Nothing more than a few drive-by shootings in a less than desirable area of Sydney. The fact that both political parties are tyring to use (abuse) this situation to add more anti-gun laws and increase police powers is of no consequence to the media.


Hmmm, I feel like Agricola now.... ewwww..... :p

[RTFM]

-4v50 Gary- Don't matter what race, ethnicity or religion - dirt is dirt.

!

[fallingblock]

"I feel like Agricola now.... ewwww..... "
************************************************************

Someone has to keep us straight on the media here as well:D .

Odd that that same bloated scumbag Rupert Murdoch controls it:scrutiny:

I hope Bob Carr has used up his credibility as far as attacking licenced shooters goes:banghead: