[lordgroom]

What is everyone's preferred rifle rest for load development? I attempted a search but no results returned.

[The Bushmaster]

I'm cheap (American Scotsman). I use a Caldwell ZeroMax (Less then $40.00).

[rcmodel]

Old shot bags full of sand.
Otherwise known as sandbags.

Shot bags full of shot are even better, but kind of heavy to pack around!

rc

[jcwit]

Caldwell Rock BR slightly modified.

[Asherdan]

A .30 cal ammo can with an old sock full of rice on top and another rice sock for a butt rest.

Only for load testing and zeroing. After that, benches don't exist as far as I'm concerned.

[dmproske]

I use a sand bag under the butt stock, and a uncle buds bulls bag to hold the rest of the rifle.

[dirtman]

gotta stick with those old bank bags full of sand.... there's no lead residue and only happy thoughts of what they held in the past...

[Ol` Joe]

Caldwell Rock

[something vague]

Good question, I have been using bags with maybe a folded sweatshirt under one. Ever since I have gotten into producing rifle ammo that is as accurate as I can manage, I have been looking for something else. I just can't afford to shell out $100 or more for just a front rest. I would also like to know other opinions on this.

Although, those Caldwell rests with the little adjustment handles that kinda act like a computer mouse look pretty interesting. Just out of my price range right now.

[proplinker]

Hart front rest, Protector rear bag. I have used them for the last 25 years. You can use anything BUT the better you can hold the rifle the better you will shoot. A good rest will take out some of the shooters mistakes!!

[dmproske]

http://www.unclebudsbullsbags.com/

[Bart B.]

It depends on how much recoil the rifle has.

As most folks (me included) typically don't shoot heavy kickers (.243 Win. recoil and heavier) very repeatable, I gave up shooting these rifles off a bench. Heavy kickers move around too much while the bullet's going down the barrel. Benchresters do well with their light-kicking rifles shot in free recoil; that's with the rifle not touching the body anywhere except where the few-ounce trigger's pinched off. One can't shoot a .30-06 that way else it would slide off the bags and probably end up on the ground.

A couple of us made a test years ago at a public range. Took a .308 Win. match rifle there to test muzzle velocity then let some other folks shoot it as they'd never seen a rifle like that one. It would shoot 1/4 MOA at 100 yards from prone, but other folks shot it from 3/4 to almost 2 MOA off bags atop a bench.

Slung up properly in prone and putting a bag under my front hand under the fore end and another under the stock's toe enables the holding area to be about 1/10th MOA. My groups from this position are about 1/3 to 1/2 the size as any shooting off a bench.

[243winxb]

Caldwell Lead Sled for 375 H&H & Larger. http://www.chuckhawks.com/caldwell_lead_sled.htm The smaller calibers i try to get as close to what the Bench Rest Shooters are using. Rest front w/sandbag. Rabbit ears at the back. Have been able to shoot some groups under 1" @ 300yds when i get lucky. http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/th_Rest.jpg (http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/Rest.jpg)

[Walkalong]

A good rest with a bag that fits the fore arm well as well as a good rear bag are very helpful in shooting from the bench. Bench shooting takes a bit of practice, just like standing, prone etc.

I have a nice rest and rear bag (http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=88174&d=1227474958) for my bench gun. They are used for nothing else so the front and rear bags stays conformed to the rifle.

I need to buy a nicer front rest for other shooting besides the little Hoppes rest I have, but just have not gotten around to it. Since I mounted a 6-18 on my little Ruger .22 Hornet (http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=99860&d=1244821933) and figured out it could shoot sub MOA, I am more inclined to get it a better rest. :)

[Bart B.]

Here's what's the best thing to use for testing your rifle and ammo for accuracy:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/86/254765267_802722dddc_m.jpg
David Tubb uses this one his Dad had made back in the 1960's. His Tubb 2000 rifle is in it but conventional stocked rifles can also be used. Coned excutcheons are epoxied in the wood/synthetic stock about an inch or two in front of the butt plate where the rear cross bolts clamp it solidly. A comlete set of detailed pictures can be seen at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/12787226@N00/sets/72157594303093714/detail/

There's been similar rests using round bars with the cradle's round bearings sliding on them; Miller is one brand as I remember. But the Miller isn't repeatable as there's four or more variable contact points between the sliding cradle and base. This one uses a three-point support between sliding cradle and base and is about 10 times more repeatable in its return-to-battery positioning. I measured the angular repetability on one I borrowed and it was less than 1/100th MOA; us humans can't hold that repeatable holding a rifle 'cause our beating heart puts movement into the rifle.

Operating in total free recoil, the rifle held much the same way a person does by its grasping the fore end and butt stock held by clamps, a 13 pound .308 Win. match rifle will recoil about 2 inches when fired. The upper cradle slides back and raises the muzzle much like a rifle does when shot by us humans. Standing behind one, it's easy to push it back froward with your belly to it's stop then load another round from your left hand while operating the bolt with your right hand; one can shoot a shot every few seconds if desired. With a light trigger pull, there's virtually no human intervention to change all the low frequency vibrations magnitude and frequency that the barreled action and stock have while the bullet's going down the barrel.

Accuracy attained with such a machine rest (or accuracy cradle as called by military teams using similar rigs testing their semiauto match grade service rifles) is phenomenal. Several high power rifle champions have these; they're all custom made from the same set of plans that's been floating around since the early 1960's. Consecutive 10-shot groups at 600 yards have been around 1 inch from the .308 Win. using full length sized cases. 20 to 40 shot groups have been under 2 inches with the best barrels and bullets; also with full length sized cases. Military rifle teams' best M14NM and 7.62 NATO converted M1 rifles shot from such things have held 4 inches at 600 yards with really good commercial .308 Win. match ammo; not too shabby at all for a semiauto whose parts have to go back to exactly the same place with the same force after each shot cycles their bolt.

Anytime us humans touch a rifle with any part of our body, that effects how the rifle whips at low frequency as the bullet goes down the barrel. Unfortunately, we just don't hold rifles (handguns either, for that matter) exactly repeatable for each shot when shooting one atop rests on a bench top.

Bad news: the more recoil the rifle has, the more it's going to whip around in non-repeatable fashion while we're hanging on to it reducing accuracy.

Good news: all of our rifles and ammo probably shoot more accurate than we are able to demonstrate while holding on to them when they're fired.

An excellent article on how touching the rifle with any body parts effecting accuracy when it's fired can be read at: http://www.angelfire.com/ma3/max357/houston.html

[Walkalong]

Now that's a rest!!!! :D

That would definitely take shooter error out of the picture, but I doubt many of us can afford one. Guess we will have to make do with the usual suspects. :)

all of our rifles and ammo probably shoot more accurate than we are able to demonstrate while holding on to them when they're fired.Absolutely

[Bart B.]

Walkalong comments:That would definitely take shooter error out of the picture, but I doubt many of us can afford one.A friend had one made by a machine shop in the early 1980's; cost him $1200 to make the parts from scrap material he bought at a salvage yard for about $150. Today's prices would be quite a bit higher, but worth it to some folks.

Regarding your "Absolutely" response to my comments about our own rifle accuracy tests, I'm convinced the following is also an "absolute." The reason there's so darned many "most accurate" loads for a given cartridge and bullet is 'cause the human error coupled with few-shot test groups result in dozens (hundreds?) of load data published on internet threads as well as books and other printed matter. Maybe 1 in 10,000 folks tests are meaningful when they hold their rifles atop rests on a bench.

[Shoney]

I’ve had the ADG rest for about 30 years. Very beefy, articulates in the middle, adjustable with ease.
http://www.opticsplanet.net/adg-sports-adjustable-rifle-rest.html

[Walkalong]

Maybe 1 in 10,000 folks tests are meaningful when they hold their rifles atop rests on a bench. I would disagree. Many folks are quite competent shooting from a bench.

I still agree that it is an absolute that most rifles are more accurate than people can hold them, that is if it was meant as I took it, shooting a rifle freehand.

Many people do not shoot well from the bench, or any other way either.

[Bart B.]

Shoney, that rest you mention has the following on their web site: ...features multiple levels of adjustment help you sight in your rifle the way the pros do. I've no idea of who they're referring to as "pros," but the best marksmen on this planet sight in their rifles without any rest whatsoever. The best of them using accurate rifles and ammo can sight in from standing (offhand, no rest) with one shot.

There's typically a slightly different zero (1/4 to 1/2 MOA difference)for each commonly used field position such as prone, sitting, kneeling or standing. Resting the rifle on anything usually change its zero. Most folks with a .308 Win. shoot about 1 MOA or more different windage zeros between shooting off a bench and in the four field positions; the difference depends on recoil.

[dodge]

One can't shoot a .30-06 that way else it would slide off the bags and probably end up on the ground.I for one can shot a 30-06 this way and not lose it in recoil. I can even shot my 45-70 guide gun this way so please don't make such a broad statement as this. Of course I'm a pretty big guy (6'5" and 295 lbs) and I have a fair amount of forearm grip.

[Bart B.]

Dodge, I probably didn't make it clear that a .30-06 would slide off a rest if fired by only touching it at it's trigger.

If you're gripping the rifle's fore end with one hand and the other hand's on the pistol grip firing it without any other body contact (shoulder to butt plate and cheek on comb, for example), it won't fly off the rest. Is this way how you do it?

If your're not holding the .30-06 rifle any way whatsoever and manage to use something to fire it, it will recoil off the rests.

[Shoney]

Bart
I'm not the one who made that claim, I only shoot from that rest, so please, don't rain on me for what they claim.

When I was a kid starting at 10 years of age, I was allowed to shoot good numbers of game animals for the family, because I had an innate ability to shoot. We use the hood of the car with a grain bag full of wheat as a rest to sight in the rifles. My father had developed a horrible flinch, but denied it, although he let me sight in all the rifles. All but a few were shot offhand.

Today, with the ADG rest I can shoot groups less than an inch with regularity, but my daughter can use the same weapon and ammo and consistently shoot smaller groups than I can get. Old eyes are the pits

[dodge]

The way that I shot is only using my right hand on the rifle, that is to grip the rifle and pull the trigger, butt in the shoulder and check down on the check rest. I also use a Outers rifle rest but have used sand bags in the past.

[Grimmy]

I too, use ye olde sand bags. They been around before Daniel Boone sighted in his first rifle. ;) Seriously, I think they are the best, I have tried other rests but always end up with a bag of sand. Some guy wrote an brief article one time, can't remember where or when. But, what sticks to my mine was that he used a old scissor jack from the junk yard and put a door knob on it some how to raise and lower it. But that is all I can remember about it.

[Furncliff]

I'm a wood worker. I made mine from a leftover oak board for the base, three blocks with v notches in them and some rubber mat to cushion the rifle. The extra block is shorter and is used with larger rifles. For pistols I made something similar except the rest is adjustable for height.

[Bart B.]

Some years ago, a friend of mine and I took our 13 pound .308 Win. match rifles out to a public range then set up a chronograph to check muzzle velocity with a new bullet. Both rifles would shoot 1/4 MOA or better at 100 yards from machine rests, but we just brought sand bags to rest the rifles on. We shot about 1 MOA groups (I'm not too good shooting on benches) holding best we could but got interesting muzzle velocities; he got about 80 fps higher than I with both rifles and the same ammo.

Other folks at the range had ever seen one of these rifles, so we decided to let everal of them shoot each one to see what it was like shooting a scoped tack driver with a 1 pound trigger pull. Best 5-shot groups were a bit over 1/2 MOA but most ranged from about 3/4 to almost 2 MOA.

Proof to me that how rifles are held and fired does impact their accuracy. They do move a bit while the bullet's going down the barrel. How much depends on how they're held. Handguns have their bore axis aimed several MOA below the sight axis as they move up in recoil before the bullet leaves their short barrels. And double rifles' bore axes cross about 10 to 20 yards down range and a few MOA low from sight axis depending on the recoil those elephant droppers recoil.

And two people typically won't have the same zero on the same rifle's sights as they hold it differently. It's one of many myths in the shooting sports that different zeros between people on the same rifle/ammo is caused by the way they "look" through or light from the target "goes through" the sights.

[jpwilly]

A cheek, thumb or shoulder can and will change the consistancy shot to shot. If you could duplicate the same pressure / hold everytime it wouldn't be a factor BUT it is because we aren't that perfect. Sand Bags and shooting rests have their place when shooting from the bench for that reason. Pick the rifle up off of the bench and you better know how to be consistant and support the firearm.

[Walkalong]

And two people typically won't have the same zero on the same rifle's sights as they hold it differently.Agreed. My zero is not necessarily your zero.

A zero from the bench will usually be different than when it is fired from the shoulder. Some hunters make the mistake of zeroing on a rest, and then not checking it when free standing. The difference can sometimes be substantial, depending on their bench technique.

[ChefJeff1]

I found a caldwell tack driver that was a little ripped up. I sewed it up and it works great

[Furncliff]

Quick and cheap (please don't judge my woodworking skills on this rest:)) This was meant to be a proof of concept prototype. It works well enough, I have little desire to build a fancier one.

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh312/furncliff/DSC04422.jpg
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh312/furncliff/DSC04423.jpg
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh312/furncliff/DSC04428.jpg
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh312/furncliff/DSC04427.jpg
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh312/furncliff/DSC04425.jpg
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh312/furncliff/DSC04426.jpg

[Furncliff]

I made two V blocks of different heights to accommodate different rifles. The pistol rest doesn't have a v notch because I don't actually rest the pistol, more of a steading touch.

In an offhanded way these rests have made my shooting much more enjoyable since I have developed a hand tremor. I can still shoot to medium range and still have fun.

[Offfhand]

Here are a couple photos of a machine rest I occasionally use for testing rifles and ammo. Also a picture of a front rest made by JJ Industries, one of the rests I use for acuracy testing and Benchrest tournaments. This machine rest was built for me by Bo Clerke and similiar rests are standard equipment in ammo manufacturing plants where continious testing and record keeping are manditory. The fixtures are relatively simple to operate and can thus be operated by simi-skilled workers hour after hour without operator fatigue that could effect results. Usually they are installed in indoor test tunnels where wind and other variables are not a factor. I used similar machine rests at Aberdeen Proving Grounds for testing military small arms and ammo at long range. Though they are convenient for long range testing of rifles having non-telescopic sights there are also disadvantages, such their adjustments for windage and elevation being too slow and inprecise to compensate for sudden changes in wind direstion and other variables. Therefore they are practical only on days having little or no wind/weather variables or at nighttime when conditions tend to be more stable. (Machine rests don't care how dark it is.) Another disadvantage is that most sporting rifles do not fit well in a machine rest without some modification or disfiguring damage caused by the clamping arrangements. On the other hand, a skilled marksman who is adapt at "reading" conditions and firing a well scoped sporting rifle from quality front and rear rests, like one shown, will equil the accuracy obtained from a machine rest for short term testing. Which is why I increasingly test ammo and components benchrest fashon rather than bother with the heavy, difficult to move and adjust machine rest. In these photos I show a strain-gauge equipped test rifle installed in my machine rest for simultaniously recording accuracy, pressure and velocity. Any questions? Just ask.
Shoot well, safely, and often....
Offfhand

[flashhole]

I like the Bull's Bag "butterfly" concept better than any thing else I've tried. I will use a folded towel as the support under the butt stock. I use it anytime I'm working up a new load and take it to the range frequently. Mine has a different logo but it it the same design as the Uncle Bud's bag. It's my second one. My wife ran over the first one with a lawn mower .... don't ask.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v69/GuideGun/GunRestwRuger.jpg

[something vague]

Does the Uncle Bud's bag place the butt high enough off the table to use confortably? That is one reason I do like the pedastal mounts but have not yet purchased one for myself. Still using bags with the front bag resting atop some wood to keep the gun high enough to make my rear protektor bag useable.

[flashhole]

Depends on the rifle. I will sometimes use a block of wood to raise it up a bit.

[1858]

When working up loads, I use a Caldwell Rock BR competition rifle front shooting rest (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=348661), with a Protektor narrow front bag (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=524068) and a Protektor mid-ear rear bag. (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productnumber=180263) Works for me! I also have four 1" thick hard rubber blocks about 8" square that I can stack up under the rear bag if I need extra height.

:)

[Kernel]

http://www.targetshooting.com/images/model_500_1.jpg
I've been using a Target Shooting, Inc., Model 500 for about 3 months. 100% American made. Got it from Brownells. Adaptable/reconfigurable to any geometry. Works well with all types of rifles, handguns, Contenders, and any firearm with long extended magazines. Open sights or scoped. Dead nuts rock solid, while still being able to adjust point of aim instantly by shifting the rifle ever so slightly forward & back. I'll never need another rest. Only down side is it's heavy (11 lbs) and kinda expensive ($210).

http://www.gunblast.com/Gun_Rest.htm

http://www.targetshooting.com/

[Bart B.]

Offfhand, that's quite a rest. I used to shoot matches in California with Bo Clerke and have shot some smallbore ones recently with him at the NRA facility near Raton. Bo's one heck of a machinist; I've seen his titanium slabs spot milled to hold rifle actions with wood glued on each side. The four rings on two rod design yours has is similar to the Miller machine rest.

I used to have a picture of the machine rest Lake City Arsenal used to test 7.62 NATO and 30 caliber match ammo. Got it from an engineer there in the late '60's as a present after discussing some accuracy issues with a lot of M118 ammo sent to the USN Marksmanship Unit. Their tests on lot LC12064 were pretty good, but the batch of it we got had 3 or 4 rounds out of a box that struck 10 to 15 inches low at 600 yards. Pulling the 172, dumping the powder then loading 44 grains of IMR4320 under a Sierra 190 or a Lapua 185 proved the most accurate long range ammo we used in our 7.62 NATO converted Garands.

[nhm16]

When working up loads, I use a Caldwell Rock BR competition rifle front shooting rest (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=348661), with a Protektor narrow front bag (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=524068) and a Protektor mid-ear rear bag. (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productnumber=180263) Works for me! I also have four 1" thick hard rubber blocks about 8" square that I can stack up under the rear bag if I need extra height.

:)

I just got this rest and a Protektor rear bag and love it. I'm using the front Caldwell bag that came it (not the cheapie black one, but their green cordura one) for now. Where do you get those rubber blocks? On my AR the standard height bag is too low and I have to "pinch" the stock between the ears. I ordered another Protektor bag, the 1" higher one with the smaller ears, but the rubber blocks will also come in handy.

[41 Mag]

Most of the time I simply use some of the Caldwell bags, (shown here with the grandson,) arranged in one form or fashion, they work so well in so many positions,
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/41nag/Shooting/P1010038.jpg

As to differences in groups, if I know I can hit it from the bag, then offhand isn't generally an issue. Most times I am not real happy about a load until it will clump them into something vaguely similar to this at least at 100yds preferably 200. If it is doping this from a bag then I am confident I can hit with off hand or from just about any other position.
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/41nag/Shooting/P8070080.jpg

Field shots for me aren't near what they are for a lot of other folks, however I probably shoot quite a bit more in the field at critters than most average shooters.