[SGW42]

I am not sure S&W sent me the same gun.

I picked up this 1976 model 19-3 three or four years ago to learn to shoot both a revolver and centerfire (having outgrown my Mark II). I didn't know enough about revolvers at the time (had not discovered THR yet :)) to check it out properly. I might have passed on it if I did. It had some end shake, and something was going on with the cylinder stop, making a large "scrape" on the cylinder and not a neat line. The ejector rod might have been a home replacement. It had been dropped, maybe multiple times. When I removed the target grips there were dimples on the butt that looked like it had landed on concrete. Also made me wonder if the grips were original. Side plate screws were buggered up. Hrrm. Grips themselves were in poor shape. I paid $250 and walked away in blissful ignorance.

300 or so rounds later, with maybe 50 or so .357 rounds, I had problems opening the cylinder, it was jammed shut. Something with the ejector rod, and no advice here worked. Paid way to much money to a gunsmith to repair that (Carter's Country, will never use them again). 50 or so rounds later, the same problem appeared. At that point I decided to mothball it, sort of fed up. Had a hard time getting any decent offers at a gun show. So one day I just decided to call up S&W and ship it to them for a full service.

I shipped it to them with a letter explaining my troubles. I basically gave them carte blanche to tear the thing down and find any faulty part, replace it, time it all correctly, and reassemble to perfectly stock condition. Since it was going through all that, I told them to refinish the gun.

Week later, I get the estimate back. $180 to refinish the complete gun. Then, $11.05 for a (MIM) cylinder stop, $13.54 for a hand, $6.97 for an extractor rod, and $14.58 for a (MIM) rebound slide. All on top of 3 units (hours?) of labor at $6.00 a pop. So $244 for the whole shebang. They also wanted $50 to case color the hammer and trigger, however, I thought the case colors on those were fine, so when I called and approved the RO, I told them to remove that option.

So today I got a FedEx notice on my door, so could barely contain myself going down to their distribution center to sign for the package and get it home. I didn't have a S&W blue plastic case, so I shipped it them carefully packed in a box with padding, peanuts, etc. Then sent it back sans-case as well. A brown cardboard box with foam padding inside the bigger FedEx box. Inside that was a note with the order number, a small brown envelope of parts, and the gun wrapped in the usual brown S&W paper. Coated in heavy oil. Neat cylinder line where I suppose they test fired it.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a275/Deity42/DSCN0412.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a275/Deity42/DSCN0413.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a275/Deity42/DSCN0414.jpg

Like I said, I am not positive this is the same gun. It looks perfect. The bluing is completely smooth, even and rich. I will have to say - the original finish, while quite a bit worn, looked "deeper" than this blue. This blue is more black and less "blue" than the old finish. It's hard to describe but I hope people understand what I'm talking about.

Here are the surprises:
- They somehow polished the butt, where it had been dropped. It looks perfect. I can't believe they were able to fix that.
- They went ahead and case colored the hammer and trigger - even though I had asked them not to (I don't mind, I just didn't want to pay $50 for it). They look great. No charge.
- The biggest thing - I am pretty near positive, when I sent the gun to S&W, it had the large S&W logo on the side plate, on the right side. Now, no logo there, and the logo is on the left side, smaller, under the cylinder release (like on modern guns). I am COMPLETELY baffled by this. My only guess is that they just replaced the side plate - didn't have any of the older style with the large logo - and then engraved the logo on the left side. The serial number is the same, and it even looks stamped the same. Can't be a new frame, could it? Regardless, it all looks great.

Here are some shots after I wiped it down a bit. Sun was setting, I got them as quickly as I could. The (new) service grips were my purchase some time ago.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a275/Deity42/DSCN0415.jpg

Where'd the logo go?

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a275/Deity42/DSCN0416.jpg

New ejector star.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a275/Deity42/DSCN0420.jpg

And here is the photo I took before I took the grips off and stuck it in a box to send to S&W.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a275/Deity42/DSCN0404.jpg

Ready for another surprise? Here's the contents of the little brown envelope.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a275/Deity42/DSCN0421.jpg

Check the rear sight leaf. The original blade was bent when I bought it. I had a friend replace it with a new one, but he could not get the retaining nut on it correctly. Still worked. I said absolutely nothing about the rear sight in my letter to S&W, and the repair I received from them said nothing about it either. But whoever went over this gun could obviously tell something was up with the rear sight - and replaced it - free of charge.

After a few dry-fires - double action may be a little smoother than I remember it! Single action is still just as light. It's wonderful.

[thesecond]

beautiful work .... thanks for sharing, I was thinking about sending something in to S & W (You just got an awesome brand-new model 19, with no ILS!).

[S&W-Keeper]

Your logo was polished off, and it was not thick enough to restamp, so they stamped the other side.It happens often.

[Oro]

$250-ish for a rebuild, polish, and reblue is a really good deal. That looks great. Thanks for the story and pictures.

[strangelittleman]

Congratulations! It looks beautiful, and it looks like S&W's customer service really came through for you...It's good to know they are taking care of their customers who own the older models!

[Big Mike]

Wow, great pistol and story. Now I want a model 19... :)

[SGW42]

Your logo was polished off, and it was not thick enough to restamp, so they stamped the other side.It happens often.

That makes sense, thank you. I was seriously confused. I can't see any evidence on the side plate of a logo being there, the plate is fitted perfectly (guess it is the original after all) and the new logo is very sharp.

If it weren't for that and the lack of an internal lock, it'd seem like I was holding one of S&W's "Classics" series revolvers.

[Oro]

If it weren't for that and the lack of an internal lock, it'd seem like I was holding one of S&W's "Classics" series revolvers.

I think that image is reinforced because of the Dymonwood pseudo-wood grips. If you got some period Magnas it would look like a mint gun, I think. It is not possible to say definitively from the photograph, but it does appear your ejector rod was bent. The lines on the reb. spring and slide look straight in the photo, but the ejector seems to have a slight curve to it.

[danbrew]

Wow, looks great. Makes me kind of wish I had a beater S&W to send off for refinishing...! :D

[Jim Watson]

They treated you well.

Now it is time to study up on your woodworking skills so you can refinish those uncheckered rosewood stocks to match.

[IMtheNRA]

S&W did a GREAT job! I wish I had a beater revolver to send in. :-)

[hemiram]

A friend of mine has a 586 that he bought cheap and it shoots ok, but it's very nasty looking and the sight is messed up. I'm going to send him a link to this thread and I bet he sends it in.

S&W did a nice job!!!

[raskolnikov_22]

What if it came back with a brand new internal lock? You would have been pissed :fire:

[ArchAngelCD]

I've always said, "If you want the revolver to look like it did when it was manufactured send it to the original manufacturer." They did an outstanding job and for a very fair price. Good for you and good for them, S&W is still tops in my opinion. (but so is Ruger)

[SGW42]

Forgot to say, it was about a week and a half, maybe two weeks from the time I sent the revolver off to when I received the estimate. I called them to approve it the next day, and it was about 7 weeks from then to when I got it back today. So if you're going to do this expect about a two month turn-around.

[BCRider]

You definetly got your money's worth. It's beautiful and I'll bet it shoots as good as it looks now.

[heavyshooter]

I regularly overlook abused guns because I do not want to go into the complicated process of getting it refinished. But it seems that S&W took good care of you. I regularly see model 19's at my local shop for about $200-$250. Most of them are not as bad as yours was. I would gladly pay an additional $250 to have it come back looking like yours. $500 for a mint model 19 is a good deal.

[Oyeboten]

Hi SGW42,



Very nice to see!


Wonderful outcome...cool adventure!



Phil

[WC145]

Wow, that's a great story and hey did a helluva job on your gun. I'm going to a gun show this weekend and may have to reconsider what I think of as "buyable" or not!

[SGW42]

I think that image is reinforced because of the Dymonwood pseudo-wood grips. If you got some period Magnas it would look like a mint gun, I think.

Now it is time to study up on your woodworking skills so you can refinish those uncheckered rosewood stocks to match.

Now you guys have me thinking about grips. I guess I don't know as much as I should re: S&W grips. What is the difference between regular service grips and "magna grips?" Are the smooth Rosewood targets I have rare or uncommon?

The service grips I have on there fit my hands really well. I used to shoot this thing with the target grips and they almost felt like "too much grip" for my hands.

[marano35]

If I had one that needed it I would gladly pay that to have them do that good a job fixing it. I have a Model 10 pencil barrel with a little holster wear but I don't think it is in need of a refinish for a while. Nice to know that when it does I can have a brand new gun again.

[Black Knight]

In a word, NICE!! I don't believe anyone can do as good a job refinishing as the actual manufacturer. I sent a Colt Python back to Colt a few years ago. I was quite surprised by the results as well. It looked new even thought it was about 25 years old or more.

[clang]

S&W Customer Service - another great reason to by a S&W vs. some of the other revolvers out there.

[earlthegoat2]

probably acceptable.....

very nice

[ThePunisher'sArmory]

Nice shooter, looks good, and makes me want to get a wheel gun now.

[rklessdriver]

Nice looking M19.

Smith did you right on it.

As for those smooth combat stocks. They are quite desireable, look to be easily saveable and well worth the effort of fixing.
Will

[maskedman504]

Thank you for the story and another example on S&W's limitless customer service!

[WNC Seabee]

I'd been considering sending my beat up Model 14 in for a while now. Your post just got me to call them.

Thanks!

[rondog]

Wow! Beautiful job and a great deal!

I regularly see model 19's at my local shop for about $200-$250.

I'm in Denver too, would you share the name of that shop with me? I've had two M19's in the past and wish I still had 'em, would love to have another.

[Big Mike]

Anyone know of those deals in Tallahassee? :)

[Ruggles]

The reason why S&W has the great customer service rep that hey do!

[SGW42]

Hate to tease you guys but I got some more pics, with some more sunlight and better angles so you can see more of the finish. Best I could do with my little camera and photography skills.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a275/Deity42/DSCN0422.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a275/Deity42/DSCN0423.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a275/Deity42/DSCN0424.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a275/Deity42/DSCN0425.jpg

Wanted you guys to see the forcng cone and recoil shield. You'd think it was unfired.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a275/Deity42/DSCN0426.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a275/Deity42/DSCN0427.jpg

[yongxingfreesty]

WOW! S&W did a really good job!

[Jim K]

"Can't be a new frame, could it?"

Maybe, if the frame had some problem that couldn't be fixed and they still have replacement old type frames.

Jim

[BCRider]

OK, so now you're just plain ol' showing off..... :D

You prefer the regular grips to target grips? I tried the same grips as yours on my Model 10 when I first got it and switched them out for the target grips that were included with my 19. I prefer the target grips far more. But then the much larger size is not an issue for me since I'm purely a range sort of guy. It's not like I'm ever carrying where the grips would be an issue.

My own 19 has bonded with me so well that it really would be a toss up if it or my CZ Shadow ended up being the last gun I kept if for some reason I had to sell off all the rest and only keep one. In fact I'm pretty sure the 19 WOULD be the one I would keep as an only gun if it should sadly come down to that.

[sparkyguy66]

This model 27 has been posted a cpl times, so sorry for the repeat, but the OP talks about the old finishs' "deeper" blue, and my 27 has it at about 90%.
I have tossed the idea around of having it reblued, but only if it were to come close to what the original "fall into" blue looks like.
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/58/l_432fb2a6f1d94fa88885265f5586d88e.jpg
I probably won't end up doing anything to it, but I would love to see a brand new bluing on a model 27 like mine. The 19 looks great!

[SGW42]

I'm purely a range guy too. I liked the target grips as I naturally grabbed them at first, until I read some threads here where I learned I was sort of holding it wrong. At first, I gripped the gun rather low, as someone here said "like one of those automatic guys." Apparently I need to grip the revolver up high, so the webbing between my thumb and trigger finger are as high on the backstrap as it can go. When I did this at my next range session, I discovered I dealt better with the recoil and was marginally more accurate. So I was sold.

I originally bought the thin service grips admittedly because they were cheaper than replacement target stocks, but when they're on the gun I also grab it naturally in the high position. I've actually not shot the gun yet with these stocks, so I guess that's the real test.

Today I was thinking about getting some Jordon Troopers and trying those out.

[SGW42]

I have tossed the idea around of having it reblued, but only if it were to come close to what the original "fall into" blue looks like.

That's a good way to describe it, "fall into" blue. The original finish was really quite beat up as you can see in the pics but if you looked at it in the right light in the right places you could tell that it was quite deep, as if it had layers to it, and maybe an actual tint of deep blue.

The new finish, while gorgeous and obviously very well done, is not the same. It is very black and solid. But then again, I think it is worth it without the scratches, gouges, scrapes and dings.

The stampings are also at risk. The new logo was stamped fresh, so it is sharp, but if I look closely where the "Marcas Registradas" stamping is, I can see where they polished it a little uneven (or maybe the original stamping is uneven).

Yours looks no where near what mine looked like, I would keep it as-is.

[The Lone Haranguer]

Not to begrudge them their fee, but a rebuild/reblue like that from a top revolversmith would probably have cost you twice as much.

[LTR shooter]

Wow! Very impressive! I did not expect the 19 to look that good!

[Maj Dad]

I'm sending my go fishing Mod 10 4" 38 hvy bbl to S&W. Paid $150 for it a couple of years ago, looks like a refugee from Viet Nam (perfect bore & internals, which is why I bought it); I have been trying to decide how to refinish it - lot of light pitting all over & blue wear (as in bare metal). I will take pics before & after & post them so others can be motivated to beautify their dogs...:rolleyes:

[Oro]

Sparkyguy66, yeah, I agree with SGW42, do not reblue that 27, and it is way more than 90% based on that photo. More like 98% based on what I see.

This is a 1970 vintage 27, and it has that "go swimming in it" blue (that's how I think of it). This photo doesn't really show it in it's full glory. SaxonPig probably has some photos of some of his multiple-nice 27's that shows it better.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd275/kamerer/S-W/27-2/IMGP2975.jpg

[sparkyguy66]

Daggum, Oro. That gun in beautiful.

[girvin02]

Lighting can have a big effect on how the bluing looks. For example:

Indoor Lighting
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee3/girvin02/Pistols/Model%2027/IMG_3665-1.jpg

Outdoor (natural) Lighting
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee3/girvin02/Pistols/Model%2027/IMG_3701-1.jpg

[pittspilot]

Has anyone sent back a gun to be re-nickled? I have a 586 no dash with a chip in the nickel that never had the magnum mod. Am now thinking about sending it back.

[Eightball]

Nicely done. Good work there.

[BCRider]

Sparky, about your 27. It's your gun of course but for myself, and I'm sure others will agree, some light but rightous signs of use add to the finish rather than degrade it. Such things as light holster wear around the muzzle and cylinder and a light to moderate ring around the cylinder along with some light and small handling marks all speak of the history it has seen. For most of us this adds depth to the character of the gun. I have to agree with Oro and the other poster in saying that your gun is wonderful as it sits from what I can see of it in the pictures. It's certainly a LONG way from being a candidate for re-blueing.

[SaxonPig]

Your 19 looks nice. I agree that you need to lose those stocks. I would refinish the smooth Targets or find some correct period Magnas.

This 27 suffered damage to the finish on the cylinder. I sent it to S&W for refinishing because it was really unacceptable as it was. They advised me that since the mid 1990s they have been forced to use a different bluing chemical due to EPA regulations and the new finish isn't as blue or as deep as seen on the older guns as a result. I can barely tell the difference between the cylinder and the frame and I doubt someone who didn't know the cylinder was refinished would notice.


http://www.fototime.com/C7AF980D3E6FECB/standard.jpg


Generally speaking, on S&W revolvers the finish is slightly less well polished from one decade to the next. The guns from the 1950s are a tad better than the ones from the 1960s, etc. Check out the blue and case hardening on this 1955 Terrier. The metal looks like a pool of oil. Hard to capture in a photo how deep it truly looks.


http://www.fototime.com/29807C60C69E26D/standard.jpg

[SaxonPig]

Sparky- I agree that your 27 looks just fine the way it is and refinishing would be a serious mistake. That gun don't hardly look broke in let alone wore out.

You want to see a 357 with real character?


http://www.fototime.com/12FEE8B0DEE04B3/standard.jpg

[SGW42]

Someone still needs to define "magna" grips to me.

The only difference I can see between what has been shown as magna grips and the "Dymondwood" grips I have on it now are the magnas are made of walnut and seem to have a slightly more round appearance to them.

What was OEM equipment on 19s? I've only seem them with checkered (and only very rarely smooth) target grips. But like I said I am not super thrilled with the feel of the target grips, seems like they are a bit much for .38s.

[Oro]

"Magna" stocks are indeed like your Dymondwood ones, or the ones on SaxonPig's guns. They were introduced by S&W in the 30's as an "upgrade" (hence the name "Magna") over their basic service stocks, the ones with rounded tops that fit just into the frame cut-out at the top. What is "different" about them is that they have the horn on top that comes up and mates to the sideplate and meets the knuckle. After WWII, they became standard on most all guns except those routinely fitted/shipped with target grips. Nowadays we take them for granted as being "standard" grips as they are widely copied and were widely used - or at least until wood grips were pretty much discontinued in 1994.

Your gun probably came with Magna grips when new. It could have been special ordered with the plain targets, but given the duct tape inside them to shim/fit them to your gun, I think they were later additions and not shipped from the factory that way (note: he sent me some other photos of the grips showing that; it's not here in the thread). Technically your Dymondwood ones are "PC Magnas" as they are rounded on the bottom - these were commonly fitted on particular models used by law enforcement, like model 10s, 64s, 67s, 58s, etc. The "PC" is for "plain clothes" and the idea was the rounded grip edge would "print" less underneath a suit jacket when worn by an agent or detective, for example. I know the factory originated the term "Magna" for the grip style; I do not know who created the term "PC" magna - whether it was the factory or the S&W customer/collector community I don't know for certain.

The only real complaint against Magna grips is that they seem too thin fore-aft for a good tight grip with stiffer loads. For decades Mershon, pachmayr, and the S&W made inexpensive plastic grip inserts for them. Other people strongly prefer the Tyler "T-Grip" adapter to fill out the trigger arch. Here's a pair of T-grips on a Round-butt 19 with aftermarket "Magna" style grips I fit to the gun:

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd275/kamerer/S-W/19-5/IMGP3117.jpg

[psp7304]

Absolutely beautiful. Great job by S&W.

[Jim K]

The type of stocks called "magna" (the plural of "Magnum") were originated for the .357 Magnum revolver, then extended to other models because they are easier on the hand.

Magna stocks have the filler above the frame cutout; all the stocks in #48 (Saxon Pig) are Magna stocks. Target stocks are larger and have a filler between the trigger guard and the frame, like the gun in #36. The gun in #51 has an after-market filler (Tyler?) in that area.

Prior to the .357 Magnum, S&W grips stopped at the half-moon cutout in the frame, leaving the back "knuckle" its natural width. Recoil from heavy loads in the .44 and .45 revolvers tore up the hand, but the factory did not change the stocks until the .357 came out in the 1930's.

Jim

[Big_John1961]

Your revolver looks fantastic! Just beautiful. That has to be a great feeling to have it refreshed like that, and I'm glad Smith took care of you like they did.

[Big_John1961]

There's some beautiful wheelguns in this thread. :cool:

[.45FMJoe]

Wow, well ... that settles it. My 58 is going back to S&W!

How long did it take, just out of curiosity?

[.45FMJoe]

Also, S&W lists two different types of rebluing on their site.

Standard polish and blue is $190. High polish blue is $235. I would almost bet the farm that is the difference here.

[SGW42]

Took about a week to get the estimate back once I sent it to them, then once I approved it, about 6 or 7 weeks. So about a two month turnaround if anyone is looking at doing this themselves.

I never specified what "kind" of reblue I wanted, just that I wanted it redone, and it wasn't specified on the estimate I got back either. I can only assume that is the "standard" reblue.

I'm working on refinishing the smooth target stocks that were on it (I think I need more practice with this stuff, lol).

[.45FMJoe]

Well it looks great!

Check out my Model 58 in the thread "can a nickle finish be saved?" That is going back to S&W. :)

[Mr. Bojangles]

It's so beautiful, I'm jealous.

[gearchecker]

You made off like the perverbial bandit!

I hope you like the "Black" bluing. It certainly looks better than the std factory bluing. It is much deeper and richer than normal. Like a black lacquer paint job on an older car versus the new acrylic. They cover the steel, but that black lacquer is like nothing else on earth.

If I don't mine get mine sold or traded off soon, I think it will be going to Smith to get mine "touched up" too.
The bluing is worn off the barrel on the right side, and it really bugs me when I go to use it or make sure it's not feeling left out.

http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv72/gearchecker/100_0078.jpg

http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv72/gearchecker/Model%2019-3/100_0081.jpg

Enjoy it. You have one beautiful wheelgun!

[rainbowbob]

That is encouraging. I've read a number of threads that trash S&W's restorations and service. I will reconsider sending one off to them.

[ROBBY.1911]

it's mine. that's my gun. i know because that's the brown bag full of little parts i sent with it. put them back on the gun and you will see. i also had a racing stripe that went around the cylinder. i can't believe it's ruined. just ship it to me and we'll call it even. i don't want to get you in trouble with the BATFE. just kidding, it makes my model 13 look a bit the worse for wear. cash poor right now, but look out S&W here it comes. thanks everyone for displaying your guns. i am inspired