Public enemies..the movie


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Eric F
June 26, 2009, 04:52 PM
I have seen the previews and this looks like it could be a good movie.I noticed the typical 20's and 30's Thompson sub guns and most likelt the usual revolvers and 1911's of the time but one gun I noticed in the previews is little talked about here or any where really, The Remington Mod. 8. I own my great grandfathers chambered in 30/30 remington as stamped on the barrel. It was later and better known as the 30 Remington. Its basicaly a 30-30 winchester redesigned for an auto loader and ballisticaly identical. I liked it so much I bought one in every common caliber, .25 .32 and .35 remington. I then recently bought a mod 81 in 300 savage. The 81 is an upgraded version with an external mag spring system and a curved grip on the receiver. This first auto loading sporting rifle was made by Remington from a John browning design. It features a recoiling barrel that moved with in a sleeve and had a bolt and bolt carrier that I beleive is similar to the Browning auto loading shot guns. It has a fixed 5 round box mag and the ammunition could be fed via striper clips. I have seen only one law enforcement magazine in my life this held 25 or 30 I cant remember and other sources are conflicting. But it is a very long single stack mag. The safety is also similar to the Ak family in design I beleive Kalishinkov might have coppied it in his design. These guns when new were expensive for the time and now most go for $300-$700. I do not know the extent of their use by law enforcement of the time other than Hammer had one while catching up with Bonnie and Clyde. I look forward to seeing it in this movie and ask others to share their knowledge on this unique peice of history.

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damien
June 26, 2009, 05:15 PM
I saw a bunch of extras when the were filming in Chicago. It was very odd to be walking down Jackson Street and see about a hundred people dressed like the Depression was still going on.

No Thompson submachine guns in sight, though.

General Geoff
June 26, 2009, 05:43 PM
Michael Mann directed this upcoming film. It should have excellent and very accurate depictions of firearm use.

Dr. Fresh
June 26, 2009, 06:53 PM
Can't wait to see it. I hope there's a sawed-off BAR in there somewhere. :D

geronimo509
June 26, 2009, 07:07 PM
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Public_Enemies
I wanna see the 1911 "machine pistol"

CWL
June 26, 2009, 09:33 PM
Michael Mann directed this upcoming film. It should have excellent and very accurate depictions of firearm use


I would beg to differ... you mean to say that Miami Vice was accurate in firearms portrayal? I had to unlearn all the crap I saw on TV as a kid.

Zoogster
June 26, 2009, 09:55 PM
I wonder if they will accurately cover the fact that John Dillinger aquired most of his weaponry, especialy his submachineguns from police armories.

At a time when citizens could mail order them many of the biggest criminals aquired thier firearms from the police (or the national guard as in the case of Clyde Barrows' shortened BAR.)


Just like you see reports of firearms today stolen from police vehicles, including select fire ARs and MP5 variants. The number reported is often much lower than the number actualy stolen as the embarassment to Law Enforcement is high.

Many other weapons were aquired through corrupt sources during prohibition. Corruption was rampant in places like Chicago and eslewhere, and someone with money could buy both police firearms or even the police themselves to be hitmen against rivals. Very similar to the situation in Mexico today.

mljdeckard
June 26, 2009, 10:06 PM
Yes, I'm looking forward to a good Michael Mann fix from this one. He always has good consulting for his movies. Watch "Heat" and "Collateral" as a warmup.

Kind of Blued
June 26, 2009, 10:11 PM
I have a lot of faith in Michael Mann. I didn't watch much Miami Vice, but the firearm handling on "Heat" and "Collateral" was outstanding.

akodo
June 26, 2009, 10:13 PM
http://www.auto-ordnance.com/imgs/dillinger3.jpg

Dillenger's "arsenal" at the time of his death.

What is the longgun directly above the thompson?

edit: also note his 1911 in 38 super (better at piercing police bodyarmor and car doors) converted to full auto with an extended magazine and a vertical fore-grip added? Looks like H&Ks MP-7, the FN P-90 and all the other 'PDWs' are about 80 years old as far as concept goes

SpikeBayonet
June 27, 2009, 08:14 AM
That's a Himen Lebman full-auto 1911 conversion.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m27/JimHayden/n_a.jpg

Lebman owned a Sporting Goods store that specialized in (then-legal) conversions of this type - he was also a popular dealer/source for Thompson SMGs and Colt Monitor Machine-rifles ("civilianized" BAR).

yokel
June 27, 2009, 08:17 AM
Same old, tired mass media hype (scaremongering is good for business) that feeds the mindless hysteria and thereby propagandizing the folks into believing a collection of myths that paint machine guns and shotguns with a certain barrel length as intrinsically evil and the right tool for a thug, gangster, and hoodlum.

TexasRifleman
June 27, 2009, 08:41 AM
I would beg to differ... you mean to say that Miami Vice was accurate in firearms portrayal? I had to unlearn all the crap I saw on TV as a kid.

Mann has used Jim Zubienna, IPSC World Team member and Steel Challenge shooter, in several of his works and as a consultant.

Here's a scene from the TV show, no special effects, just Jim showing his quick draw.

Pretty impressive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsUaMoyKm40

isp2605
June 27, 2009, 09:46 AM
What is the longgun directly above the thompson?
1907 Winchester in .351. Very common rd at the time particularly for LE. The FBI had them in their inventory until at least the late 70s.

LibShooter
June 27, 2009, 11:01 AM
It looks like a great movie. Johnny Depp is usually good at making larger than life characters even larger.

Same old, tired mass media hype ... a collection of myths that paint machine guns and shotguns with a certain barrel length as intrinsically evil and the right tool for a thug, gangster, and hoodlum.

This is a movie about John Dillinger, a thug gangster and hoodlum who used machine guns and shotguns with a certain barrel length to rob, maim and kill. Are you suggesting no one should ever produce a movie in which the bad guys use firearms? Or maybe the gangsters be armed with slingshots and pea shooters.

I don't know about you, but I love a good shoot 'em up movie. Complete with real guns.

lions
June 27, 2009, 11:13 AM
Mann has used Jim Zubienna, IPSC World Team member and Steel Challenge shooter, in several of his works and as a consultant.

Here's a scene from the TV show, no special effects, just Jim showing his quick draw.

Pretty impressive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsUaMoyKm40

That is impresssive. When he fires the pistol it looks like he actually fired 3 rounds but the sound guys only had time to put in 2 "bangs". It is at the 2 minute mark.

yokel
June 27, 2009, 11:40 AM
This is a movie about John Dillinger, a thug gangster and hoodlum who used machine guns and shotguns with a certain barrel length to rob, maim and kill. Are you suggesting no one should ever produce a movie in which the bad guys use firearms? Or maybe the gangsters be armed with slingshots and pea shooters.

The anti-gun factions have historically made progress by frightening the American public. The execrable NFA legislation passed seventy-five years ago this month because of the panic created in the general population.

It is chilling to watch our "elite" hunt around for someone or something to use as a scapegoat to justify their failed policies and continuous grasp for power.

America's most dangerous enemy is its own imagination run wild. There is an epidemic of people convinced that our world or society is coming to an end for one reason or another. They say something horrible will happen unless drastic steps such as the National Firearms Act of 1934 or the Gun Control Act of 1968 are taken. Their fears will become a self-fulfilling prophesy unless people stop looking at our society as a place where the tyranny of the majority forces its concept of "good" on its neighbors.

35Rem
June 27, 2009, 11:58 AM
Check out the links in my signature line. One is dedicated to the Model 8 and 81 with lots of great pictures and information.
The other is about all autoloader, including the Winchesters as seen in the pictures above.
Lots of good stuff on both. I really look forward to this movie and hope it doesn't dissapoint. It's got some big names in it, so should be OK.

jerkface11
June 27, 2009, 12:04 PM
OMG I want that pistol.

MagnumDweeb
June 27, 2009, 11:56 PM
I want the Himen Lebman too. Too bad the only way to own one is to find an oldie that has survived the times or become an SOT3, build them, and market them to law enforcement and military. When I find little things like the Himen Lebman, I get really ticked at those scum who created the NFA and later 68' bit, and the 86' bit of course(for some reason some scum decided guns made after 86 are more dangerous than guns made before).

Sad truth thouse the Himen Lebman build would not be the most difficult by any real means for those who know their 1911s and their way around a machine tools. And then you just have to cut your own magazines or bust out the 4140 flats and build your own drums. But of course there are laws against building your own machine guns for pure self-consumption in that manner. Be a real shame if the laws out there would one day not be worth anything.

Blakenzy
June 28, 2009, 12:26 AM
I think it's Himan... himen is an gender specific anatomical component.

mljdeckard
June 28, 2009, 01:06 AM
You mean hymen?

Kind of Blued
June 28, 2009, 05:18 AM
You mean hymen?

Could he have meant anything else?

Has anybody seen this film yet? I'm pretty sure it debuted, and I'd like to know how well the gunplay was done.

As far as IMDB knows, nobody plays "Machine Gun Kelly", which upsets me mainly because we share a birthday.

I just really didn't want this thread to end with mjdeckard's post. :)

Maelstrom
June 28, 2009, 06:02 AM
We can all thank clowns like Dillinger for the NFA.

Look at his setup and it consists of pretty much every single regulated item.

SBS, SBR, AOW, FA.

rmodel65
June 28, 2009, 06:18 AM
i cant wait to see this movie :D i asked my grandmother if Dillinger was as popular to the public as the previews makes him out to be, she said she remembers him being like a rock star so to speak.

Lightsped
July 2, 2009, 11:37 AM
I saw this movie last night and was HIGHLY impressed. Micheal Mann sure did good on this one! The gun details, and sounds of the shootouts were top notch! I highly recommend this movie to anyone who has a passing interest in Tommys, 1911s, BARs, etc....

NWGunner
July 2, 2009, 12:32 PM
Also saw this movie last night. Depp was in fine form. The shootouts were very realistic. As with most hollywood movies, the round-count vs. reloads was inconsistent, but still entertaining. I would also say the the Thompson was the most prominently featured weapon in the movie. There was a scene early in the movie with a full auto BAR - that was very exciting to watch. "Public Enemies" was a good movie independent of the firearms - but it is clear that the Director paid special attention to all of the guns that were used in the movie and that they were true to history.

Anyone in love with the .45 ACP cartridge will drool watching this movie.

SharpsDressedMan
July 2, 2009, 09:22 PM
I enjoyed it, though it was probably PRETTY accurate on events (although not sure about the detective room "walk through). The gun portrayal was good, but the sound effects kind of disappointed. The 21 and 28 Thompsons sounded slower than they should, the BAR sounded too fast, the shotguns sounded like 50 cal rifles (well, they had a HUGE blast), etc. All in all, looked very period, and the guns were at least all period correct, and fun to watch. The cyclic rate on the 1911 "machine pistol" (which was .38 Super in reality), was a lot like the machine pistols I have heard. They got than one right. Anyone else pick this flick apart?

Oro
July 2, 2009, 09:27 PM
Have not seen it, but eventually every little error, goof, or anachronism will be picked apart and posted here:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1152836/goofs

Not much yet as it's just out, but check back. IMDB has this for all film entries. Gun flubs will be pointed out, too.

DanielW
July 2, 2009, 09:40 PM
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Public_Enemies

Oro
July 2, 2009, 10:30 PM
OK, you inspired me. I'm out the door now to go see it. A quick whiskey and bite at the pub, then we will check out "Johnny Depp and Christian Bale play with (cool) guns"!!

nwilliams
July 3, 2009, 02:09 AM
I just got back from seeing Public Enemies and as usually Michael Mann delivers the goods. I have always been a huge fan of Mann and every time I hear that he has a new movie coming out I get excited.

This one delivers on all levels, humor, action, great acting, plot pace, mood and period ambiance all the elements of a classic Michael Mann movie.

However I think one of the things I look forward to most about his movies is the guns and gun play. The sound of the guns is realistic, the gun handling is well choreographed and as always the guns are historically accurate the wide range of firearms used in the film are a feast for the eyes.

If you want to see a great movie with all the classic guns from the 1930's era then I highly recommend Public Enemies! Maybe not Mann's best movie but certainly up there with Heat and Collateral in my opinion.

Now I just want another Thompson, why did I sell mine

Oro
July 3, 2009, 02:45 AM
I agree with nwilliams. Just got back and it was a great flick. Some just impressive shoot-outs with great gun handling. I think the sounds were spot on; the rate of the BAR sounded right, and you could clearly tell a .45 from a Government model vs. the crack of the same round in the Thompson. I agree with SharpDressedMan, I did think the shotguns were over done and the 10 gauge in the woods after the Little Bohemia shoot-out sounded more like a knee mortar than a shotgun. Yes, the "squad room walk-through" was over-top hokey near the end, but it was only the real false note in what, for a very complicated story with a huge cast of characters, flows very well.

I had to marvel at the response of the FBI to the news of the hideout location. No calling an HRT or SWAT team. They scooped up some Thompsons and BARs, and jumped into the waiting Ford Trimotor in their trenchcoats. Awesome style - very different than today!

Lastly I got a put a word in about the train station scene in Chicago. It was very impressive they hired Milwaukee Road's 261 Northern type 4-8-4 for that scene - authentic, and a monstrously cool steam locomotive correct to the era. You can always find nits to pick, but they did all they could to recapture the look, feel, grit, and glory of a by-gone era.

PTK
July 3, 2009, 03:29 AM
One thing to recall regarding the shotguns is that most of the shotgun sounds are of the blackpowder variety in these films. Compare the sounds to those in the new 3:10 to Yuma film and you'll see what I mean. :)

Kind of Blued
July 3, 2009, 07:47 AM
PTK, Would a blackpowder load have less of a high-frequency report due to a slower burn and, consequently, lower pressure?

strangelittleman
July 3, 2009, 10:49 AM
" We can all thank clowns like Dillinger for the NFA."


No, we can thank the great American Socialist FDR for the NFA amongst other "social(ist)" improvements that are still damaging our country.

raskolnikov_22
July 3, 2009, 02:10 PM
Collateral was really good.

Hopefully this flick will be up there with The Untouchables and better than Road to Perdition.

Owen Sparks
July 3, 2009, 02:46 PM
Anytime that you are part of a group, (society) you are considered no better than the least competent member of that group. That is how gun laws work. Because a few thugs can not be trusted with full auto firearms, then NOBODY can have have one. The proper term for this mindset is COLLECTIVISM. It treats everybody in the group as being no better than the least common denominator, sort of like the old 'weakest link in the chain' paradigm. All forms of socialism including Fascism and Communism are built on the model of collectivism. Only the condition of liberty recognizes the rights of the sovereign individual and our society is rapidly moving away from that.

Oro
July 3, 2009, 04:19 PM
One thing to recall regarding the shotguns is that most of the shotgun sounds are of the blackpowder variety in these films.

Do you mean Hollywood likes to use that sound because it's more unique, or that blackpowder was still used for shot loads in the '30s? They certainly used smokeless in the filming, and I wouldn't think shot loads would still be BP at that time.

SharpsDressedMan
July 3, 2009, 09:26 PM
From what I understand, the BAR had two cyclic rates, none higher than 650, with the slower rate about 450. Having fired the M3 Greasgun, with a slow cycling rate (550), that BAR in the movie didn't sound right to me. The Thompsons sued were both the 1921's and 1928's, which had cyclic rates like 900 and 750 repsectively. I've fired a 28, but the 900rpm of the 1921 is getting closer to the MAC10 in high cyclic rate; distinctively different than the 1928 for sure. Part of the reason for the slow cyclic rate of the BAR is for controllability. The slower rates allow it to settle back down to allow more accurate fire. Firing the Greasegun was boring to me, it's rate was so slow, but it was nicely controllable. If I remember correctly, the Greasgun copied the rate of the MP40, also slow, and also very contollable and accurate.

35Rem
July 3, 2009, 10:22 PM
Pretty darn good movie. The wife even liked it. A good amount of Remington model 8 time, but I didn't see one fired. Would have liked to see the old horse in action!
There were several model 11 shotguns on screen too. Thompsons ruled the day, but there was a couple 1907 winchesters, they were even mentioned by caliber as being part of the FBI unit's equipment - "351 Winchester autoloading rifles."

This really could have been a 3 hour movie and not been long enough. There are a few insignifigant historical inaccuracies, but pretty good overall.

I would recommend seeing it in the theater to get the full sound effects.

lechiffre
July 3, 2009, 10:33 PM
We can all thank clowns like Dillinger for the NFA.

is dillinger's term in congress covered in this movie ?

PTK
July 3, 2009, 10:35 PM
Do you mean Hollywood likes to use that sound because it's more unique, or that blackpowder was still used for shot loads in the '30s? They certainly used smokeless in the filming, and I wouldn't think shot loads would still be BP at that time.
I mean that the sound effects folks thought the blackpowder 12ga and 10ga sounds were "better" than the smokeless sounds.

ezypikns
July 4, 2009, 06:53 PM
I read the book (by Brian Burrough) first. There was no way the movie could cover the scope of the book, which described the crimes not only of Dillinger, but also Bonnie and Clyde, and also the Barker Gang in detail. That's usually the way it is though.

I thought the firearms were dealt with pretty accurately.

Have you ever wondered though, at the fascination people have for this kind of movie, the violence and the gunplay, and yet they're terrified of firearms, and want to see them all go away.

Prince Yamato
July 4, 2009, 07:04 PM
I liked the movie. On the whole, I thought the firearms were presented quite accurately. I thought I saw a machine pistol in the movie. I'm glad it wasn't my imagination then!

JustinL
July 4, 2009, 08:53 PM
Movie was okay. Liked the way it was filmed more than the script.

Not quite sure anybody can handle a BAR on full auto with only one hand though.

SharpsDressedMan
July 4, 2009, 10:43 PM
I just looked it up, and the BAR weighs just over 18 lbs empty. The M60 GPMG weighs just over 23 lbs. Whereas the M60 was a squad gun, fed by belts carried by another troop, the BAR man carried his own ammo. Pretty much balanced out, but the BAR was lighter, and thus should be a tad tougher to shoot one handed (braced against the torso at the buttstock). Apparently, they both have a cyclic rate of 550rpm, and should sound about the same. At close range, the BAR might be one hand controllable. Consider bracing an M1 rifle at your side, and firing semi as fast as you could, one handed. Now, imagine the rifle almost TWICE as heavy (18+ vs. 9+ lbs), on a slow full auto. Out to 20 yds, I would NOT want to see if the shooter could walk rounds in my direction, especially if that shooter had time to practice with it..........I'm sure it was easier with blanks, though.......

Oro
July 4, 2009, 11:30 PM
I mean that the sound effects folks thought the blackpowder 12ga and 10ga sounds were "better" than the smokeless sounds.
__________________

That is what I thought you meant. Makes sense. The 10ga. sound in the woods was WAY off in my mind.

Another thing I noticed was Johnny Depp's web of his right hand. I saw it twice - first in one scene when he and Billie are first alone - he puts his hand up to her throat/shoulder caressingly, and it's really obvious he's got a huge red welt all around the web. I saw it again in another scene later (was looking for it again to make sure I didn't imagine it). Wonder if that was from all the trigger time with long and wide 1911 style hammers, or maybe the Thompsons, too? (I don't know if that wooden stock rides back on your web under recoil - seems like it might - I've never fired a Thompson full auto to know).

jrhines
July 5, 2009, 01:01 AM
Mel Purvis shooting Pretty Boy Floyd, and then goes on to the hunting down of Dillinger. Well, Dillinger was killed in July of 1934, Floyd in Oct. And there are several versions of who shot Floyd, the FBI version says it was Purvis, others have a different account. Other than that, a really good movie, with Depp lettin' it all hang out.

Oro
July 5, 2009, 11:04 AM
What would Paul Tibbits do?

Yeah, the gross error with Pretty Boy Floyd is well known. But I freakin' want a bumper sticker that says:

"WWPTD?" That is awesome. Nice signature line.

(FYI, it's "Tibbets," not "Tibbits")

OurSafeHome.net
July 5, 2009, 11:30 AM
Not quite sure anybody can handle a BAR on full auto with only one hand though

I have done it.

Judicator
July 5, 2009, 05:37 PM
I loved the scene where Purvis shoots Floyd with the hunting rifle. You clearly see him use the double-set trigger to good effect. Couldn't tell what rifle or caliber he was using, though.

Fat Boy
July 5, 2009, 05:48 PM
We saw this movie a couple of evenings ago. It seemed to me that the Thompson full auto guns seemed to stay right on level, even when being fired extensively. I was thinking at a minimum those guns would ride up with multiple shots fired. But, I have never shot or even handled the guns, so I am probably a poor judge on that one.

One thing my better half and I both noticed; in places the film seemed to have been shot with poor quality equipment; my best description was that it looked like the video of Jack Ruby shooting Lee Harvey Oswald...anyone else notice? I wonder if this was done by the movie makers for a specific effect?

Interesting movie overall; we enjoyed it-

Browns Fan
July 5, 2009, 06:21 PM
I had the opportunity to fire one about 1.5 yrs ago. The thompson is a very heavy gun which makes it easy to control fire.

Kevin77
July 5, 2009, 08:34 PM
"Corruption was rampant in places like Chicago and eslewhere, and someone with money could buy both police firearms or even the police themselves to be hitmen against rivals." Now they call them community organizers. You can also get a good deal on a senate seat.

jimsmith80
July 6, 2009, 06:07 AM
No, No, NO ! We cannot thank dillinger for NFA.! Thank the same commie jerks we have in there now! ad remember FDR, clinton, Obama, They are who we can thank, not some criminal who cares not for any law. It would do good for all to remember its not Dillinger we are afraid of. We as a people are afraid of ...US! Me , I'm afraid of U.S.

Deus Machina
July 6, 2009, 06:54 AM
All my thoughts on the guns have been summed up.

Now that those are taken care of, I wonder who gave them airtime in one of the half-dozen sky-worthy Trimotors.

Eric F
July 6, 2009, 05:12 PM
I still have not seen it, too much over time maybe tonight????? What exposer did the Remington mod 8 get?

35Rem
July 6, 2009, 05:58 PM
Model 8 - a good bit, no firing on screen, though. Depp took one from the police armory during a prison break. Also you get to see one for a while while the G-men unload Dillinger from an airplane.

cortez kid
July 6, 2009, 06:08 PM
Won't watch anything with that America hating SOB, Depp. Let him go back to France and play with his pastries.
kid

feedthehogs
July 6, 2009, 07:01 PM
Corruption was rampant in places like Chicago

Its nice to know some things never change.

Bill B.
July 6, 2009, 08:04 PM
I loved the scene where Purvis shoots Floyd with the hunting rifle. You clearly see him use the double-set trigger to good effect. Couldn't tell what rifle or caliber he was using, though.

I enjoyed the movie also! The rifle in question I thought could have been a Austrian Steyr with that butter knife bolt. I have seen few of them in person but handled a couple from an estate a couple of years ago and that was what it looked like at a glance.

MagnumDweeb
July 6, 2009, 08:05 PM
I'm not going to be seeing it. It will make me want all those guns I can't have because of laws that make little or absolutely no sense. The previews have made we want to become an SOT3 though, and get the necessary approval by the ATF and other powers that be to manufacture NFA firearms for the purposes of marketing and selling to law enforcemnet and military. "Why officer you surely should have this BAR, it is .30-06 by the way and surely you can't just leave your life to depend on that AR in .223." "Better yet officer a good ol'Thompson would put that H&K(I know it really wouldn't, but I would be marketing after all lol) to shame, because if you aren't hold ing enough wait to make holding the gun uncomfortable, you just don't have real gun there do you?"

BARs, 1911 FA (granted I'd want a detachable shoulder stock, and drum for it, with a 7" barrel), SBS Winchester 1887, etc. etc.

searcher451
July 6, 2009, 09:17 PM
Saw the film this weekend and thoroughly enjoyed it. It's not a great movie by any means, but the guns and gunplay were all impressive in typical Mann/Hollywood fashion. Thanks, Akodo, for the historical photo of Dillinger's arsenal at the time of his death. That's an impressive bit of hardware.

Oro
July 6, 2009, 09:19 PM
One thing my better half and I both noticed; in places the film seemed to have been shot with poor quality equipment; my best description was that it looked like the video of Jack Ruby shooting Lee Harvey Oswald...anyone else notice? I wonder if this was done by the movie makers for a specific effect?

It wasn't poor quality equipment - actually it was cutting edge filming technique, but it's just not suited to night time yet - he used Digital equipment, not normal/traditional motion picture film stock. This has been a point of controversy with the film-making crowd. The trade-off is that it leaves a very large grain size in night scenes. But you don't have those hokey-looking scenes where someone is standing in the woods under a Klieg light.

And yes, I bet that Mann and the cinematographer have got a rash of flack about the night scenes, but I had no problem with it in general. Film makers right now are wrestling with what is the best combination of technology/technique/lighting to make the best screen product, so it's not a slam-dunk case what the right answer is.

By the way Fat Boy, don't think the FBI didn't screw with that picture of Ruby and Oswald to frame-up Ruby. I've had a friend look into removing the obvious signs of manipulation, and it turns out the real story is quite different. Eveyrbody always assumed Det. Leavelle (the tall man in the tan suit and hat) was staring at the gun in Ruby's hand. Turns out he was watching for a chord change:


What the FBI released.
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd275/kamerer/ruby.jpg

What the truth actually showed:
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd275/kamerer/oswald_ruby.jpg

(I have been waiting a long time to get those into a THR thread... you made my day ;) ).

HJ857
July 7, 2009, 12:02 PM
Depp is just another ridiculous hollywood hypocrite.

from July 6. 2003 USA Weekend. "Instead he fell in love, first with Paradis and then with his adopted country. He says he is shocked by the gun violence in American schools and feels it is far safer raising a family in France."

This is one of a number of similar comments he's made. I find it interesting how someone with an attitude like that can justify accepting a role as an American Gangster, and, I'm certain, doing his best to make it seem glamorous.

I think it's clear that his greed and arrogance easily makes his morals and intelligence irrelevant, when it's convenient.

627PCFan
July 10, 2009, 09:56 AM
In the new movie Public Enemies the time is set in 1933/34. In one part of the movie, Dellinger is driving by a squad of military soldiers on a street corner post, armed with Garands. Im thinking Garands would not have been issued at that time?? Did the props guy get his time periods screwed up?

7X57chilmau
July 10, 2009, 10:19 AM
The M1 was introduced into service in 1936.

J

CoRoMo
July 10, 2009, 10:28 AM
Put on your flame retardant suit. You just might get flamed for ever expecting any modicum of reality from a movie.

highorder
July 11, 2009, 11:12 PM
In one part of the movie, Dellinger is driving by a squad of military soldiers on a street corner post, armed with Garands.

I saw it today. Those soldiers were all armed with 1903 Springfields. Not am M1 rifle in sight.

jabberwocky
July 12, 2009, 12:26 AM
Just saw it (finally).

I've enjoyed reading all the posts here with so much knowledge of the guns used in this film. I would have prefered the trigger being squeezed at the opening of the movie, and not letting off until the final 'shot.' But, I reckon they had to put some storyline in there, too.

Thought it was interesting when Dillinger went back to Chicago and saw the wired bookie room and the 'Syndicate' didn't want him around bringing attention. And with interstate crime becoming a felony, the writing was on the wall. As went the gunfighter a few decades before, so went the era of the bankrobber.

Man-oh-man, those were some serious guns back in those days.

steveracer
July 12, 2009, 02:15 AM
I saw the welts on Depps hand, too. Lots of hammer bite, obviously. Now we have to sit here and wonder if it is a REALLY good eye at detail on the part of the director, or if Depp got a lot of trigger time to get ready for the film. (Although it doesn't take too much time to get welts like that if you shoot like I do and use a non-modified 1911. I have big hands and hold very high.)
I LOVED the movie for it's firearms/automobiles/airplanes.
Good question about the Ford Trimotors. I was in the Smithsonian a number of times over the last several months of their shooting, and the same plane was still stuck to the ceiling, so it wasn't that one. Doesn't Bob Hoover have one?
As for the guns, my personal favorite part was Dillinger talking to his armorer about problems with one of the Thompsons. "..and check the springs. It jammed twice..."

steveracer
July 12, 2009, 02:40 AM
Also, Stephen Lang played Charles Winstead well enough to make me not want to mess with him.

donzi
July 12, 2009, 03:24 AM
Great movie...lots of correct firearms info, could have used more shootout action. Defiantly a buy along with HEAT and Miami Vice (new one).

You will probably come out of the movie wanting to buy a Thompson or at least a BAR.

CountGlockula
July 12, 2009, 05:29 AM
Awesome movie, think about the shootouts from Heat but in the 30's and turn it up a notch. The authentic .45ACP/30-06 blast sounds were intense.

danprkr
July 12, 2009, 08:47 AM
One thing my better half and I both noticed; in places the film seemed to have been shot with poor quality equipment; my best description was that it looked like the video of Jack Ruby shooting Lee Harvey Oswald...anyone else notice? I wonder if this was done by the movie makers for a specific effect?

Someone else already addressed the technical aspects of the look of the film, but what kind of annoyed me was all the hand held camera work, and rapid edits. It has become popular with the advent of music videos and reality TV to work in this style, but for me it makes the movie harder to follow in some segments. And, I'm not just talking about Public Enemies here, but Public Enemies certainly is guilty of it.

Oh well, this fad to shall pass, but in the meantime I have to put up with hard to watch movies I guess.

amprecon
July 12, 2009, 12:42 PM
We saw it last night and I saw a few things that were enlightening like the automatic pistol and the .351 Remington rifle, never knew of those weapons before. I have fired a full auto Thompson before and could relate to it better when they were shooting it. It almost seems like a big heavy toy but shooting pistol bullets. I mean seeing it fire you'd think recoil would be heavy, but it's really not, it's just a mean *ss sewing machine.
My overall impression of it was good, but I came to see that this was an era where the government used any excuse it could to grab more control over it's citizens. I don't condone crime in any sense, but it should've been, and should be dealt with on an individual case-by-case basis, not an infringement of personal rights, and blanket right infringing laws cast over the entire country.
I don't want to be a spoiler, but I firmly believe in individual freedom and I can't help but notice when my "yard" gets smaller and smaller with every new year and yearn for the days when you couldn't see the boundaries of your "yard".

Eric F
July 14, 2009, 08:52 PM
the .351 looks like a cool round I am starting to look for rifles and reloading componets for this. I have a likening for the old and out dated stuff.

35Rem
July 15, 2009, 12:46 PM
Only rifle in 351 Winchester Self Loading is the winchester 1907. It is pretty much obsolete and even hard to make brass for.
One source of laoded ammo:
http://shop.reedsammo.com/category.sc?categoryId=145
you can find lots of info on them in the link in my signature for the Vintage Autoloading rifles website.

I prefer the Remington Model 8 in 35 Remington, also seen in this movie.

crazy-mp
July 18, 2009, 01:32 AM
Anyone care to comment?

1. I am pretty sure in the beginning scene where the police officer was shot with the BAR you can hear the brass hitting the sidewalk.


2. In the woods scene was that a lever action shotgun or was it a 45-70? For some reason I though one of the law men was using a 45-70.

JustinL
July 18, 2009, 11:29 PM
I think that was Stephen Lang's character using an 1887 Winchester shotgun. Kind of like the Terminator. Of course, I could be wrong about that.

steveracer
July 19, 2009, 12:04 AM
10 gauge levergun.
Period correct, and supposedly really used by that guy.

B BRI
July 19, 2009, 03:05 AM
Based on some screen time for the Remington Model 8, I will be taking the Mrs. to this on date night.

Shot my first Remy 81 ( the later version of the 8 ) when I was 10.

The one gun that has made EVERY hunting trip I needed a rifle ( though sometimes as a backup ) has been my Remington Model 8 in 35 Rem. More often than not, it got the nod and was carried into the woods. I have killed more deer, elk, antelope, coyotes, etc. with it than all my other rifles combined.

It was a favorite of the Texas Rangers, a famous photo I cannot find shows a group of Rangers with their then new, circa 1920/30's Model 8's.

Truly a great unknown American rifle and under 250 yards if you know your trajectory, a great hunting rifle. Swings like a fine double shotgun. My family collects the 8's and 81's and we have over 100 of these fine old Remingtons.

Can't wait to see it on the big screen.

Oyeboten
July 19, 2009, 06:07 AM
I like Johnny Depp...but a 40-something Lee Marvin would have been far closer to the mark (well, if he was young enough and still alive anyway...)


A right age Warren Oats similarly...would be a lot closer...


Dillinger had a whole different demeanor and attitude from Depp's character.


...leaving aside, other liberties the film may take...


Fun though, regardless...been watching 'you tube' or other clips...have not made the Movie Theater yet...

lechiffre
July 19, 2009, 11:14 AM
A right age Warren Oats similarly...would be a lot closer...

http://www.obsessedwithfilm.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/dillinger-1.jpg

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