[ysr_racer]

I decided to cut open a Winchester 12ga, 7.5, 3DR. EQ. Value Pack shell to see what's inside. I don't have a scale, but I do have a dial caliper.

The shot ranged in size from .0935 (pic 1) to .099 (pic 2) with most of them at .095.

The powder is a flake. (pic 3)

The wad is a 1 piece wad with WW 43 AA stamped inside of it. (pic 3)

I don't know anything about bases, so I just took the picture. (pic 4)

My nest step is to weigh the powder charge and the shot. I don't know what any of this means, but somebody else may.

brad

http://pic2.picturetrail.com/VOL36/883856/2773051/36290862.jpg

http://pic2.picturetrail.com/VOL36/883856/2773051/36290873.jpg

http://pic2.picturetrail.com/VOL36/883856/2773051/36290844.jpg

http://pic2.picturetrail.com/VOL36/883856/2773051/36290818.jpg

[HSMITH]

That is some pretty good shot quality, especially for a promo load. The wad is the same wad used in the AA shells, top notch for sure.

A guess is the powder is Super Target.

Looks like top shelf stuff in a cheap hull to me.....

[sm]

HSMITH
You figure 20.0 grains of Super Target?
surprised on shot myself, haven't done the scientific "plier test" in awhile, last lot I did on this promo load in #8 kinda soft and not near as uniform as what Posted here. The Fed Multi Purpose loads tested harder on #8 shot using plier test back then, more uniform too. humm...

Thanks for sharing/posting pics ysr_racer

[ysr_racer]

I've still got the components. If anybody has a way for me to test for shot hardness, I'd be happy to give it a try. What's the "plier test"?

[sm]

Credit goes to Bob Brister for this "most" high tech procedure. OK? :D

A pair of wire pliers, place one shot b/t jaws, use thumb and index finger and squeeze. Note pressure . Told you it was high tech :D

Seriously, if you compare some known hard and known soft shot (difference in antimony) you get a "feel" for the difference. Use same shot sizes say from a dove load and a target load...try it.

Besides the obvious "not round" uniformity of shot ,you can feel it.

Oh try some copper-plated shot vs same size as non plated...makes a difference in patterns and you will see/why.

The dog at the time fully understood, great test assistant... I let him explain to the wife, must have done a good job, no men in white coats showed up.
:p

[HSMITH]

'73, yeah I would figure somewhere in the 20 range. That sure makes a good target load when I load it, so I am guessing these do too.

I may buy some for testing purposes, naahhhhh I have a couple thousand one ounce and a couple thousand 7/8oz and a couple thousand 1 1/8oz and a couple thousand handicap loads and a couple thousand........

[Poodleshooter]

Looks like a Winchester WAA12 wad-same as I would use for my loads. It's a great wad. The hull is a Winchester Polyformed similar to those used in all of the economy loads. That's part of the money right there. The polyformed have thin walls,weird "melted" crimps, and in my experience, seem to tear easily when shot.
He's not kidding about the plier test-it really works! I tested some Peruvian "Star Shot" against some Lawrence USA made shot, and could definitely feel the difference in how easy they were to crush.

[Dave McCracken]

Lawrence is good stuff, I use West Coast from its sister company(Bit of reloading trivia).

The pliers test works as a RELATIVE indication of hardness.

[Bowlcut]

hehehe now there is redneck science at its best i do believe.

i know i shoot value pack out of my old Ithica 37 feather 20 pump and love it. shoot skeet and everyone but me gets it right on the mark. i suck tho :). first shot out of it by spanky and one dead clay...repeat over and over. for fun, practice, or hunting its decent stuff for us not so wannabe professionals. i know it patterns TIGHT out of my 20 mod choke. All the way back at 25yards or so its no more than an 18 inch circle for the most part....little wider maybe but its TIGHT out to about 15yards out of my gun

[sm]

Hey, like I said , Bob Brister had this "plier test" in his book...credit goes to him.

He is also the guy ( for those that don't know) had his wife drive the family station wagon at 40 mph, pulling the target stand with pattern boards to give one of the first true indications of shot stringing. Redneck , perhaps, but shooting a stationary target only give a partial ...a baseline as to what a load will do.

His tests showed WHY hard shot was better than soft shot/promo loads. Showed why for instance the .410 can't and won't do what other gauges will...etc. Targets for the shotgun are moving...

"Can't miss with a shogun and all those pellets" Wrong. Besides the shooter and what he has to do--we do have to figure in the other stuff too.

[ysr_racer]

Here's what others had to say about my pictures:)

http://shotgunsports.com/cgi-bin/webchat.cgi?category=Clay_Talk&num=9329&startnum=1

[Jhaislet]

What a pissing match about shells on the other site. One of these days I'll get my shotshell reloader unboxed and set back up again. Damn I hate moving...