Slob shooters spoil it for everybody


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Dave Workman
June 30, 2009, 04:02 PM
The Seattle Gun Rights Examiner takes aim at slob shooters over a recreational shooting closure in the national forest




http://www.examiner.com/x-4525-Seattle-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m6d30-Careless-slobs-jeopardize-recreational-shooting-for-everyone


If that doesn't work, try this

http://tinyurl.com/moccx8

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Wyo_F-A
June 30, 2009, 04:15 PM
That is a shame. My wife crawls up my ass every time she finds a spent casing on our back pasture...so I police my brass very effectively now. Maybe she can go and patrol the national forest; it would solve TWO headaches.

Deltaboy
June 30, 2009, 04:16 PM
HE is right and folks like that need to be arrested and Fined and made to clean the place up.

Roadkill
June 30, 2009, 04:41 PM
I have accepted the position of clean up at the local range. (free range fees + $50 a month) My mantra is that if it is left I burn it immediately. I go about every three days. Folks tend to leave stuff under the auspice that someone else might need/use it to shoot at. A select few idiots bring trash to shoot, others are more than willing to also shoot at it then have the idea since they didn't bring it why clean it up. Its taken a few weeks but as I have kept the trash cleaned up less and less is brought. First clean up took several hours. I was out this morning and had the place spotless in 30 minutes.

hso
June 30, 2009, 04:43 PM
Folks that don't clean up after themselves aren't mature enough to be shooting unsurpervised, regardless of age.

NewColonial
June 30, 2009, 04:49 PM
Not too much in the way of trash, but brass cleanup is a problem at the range I go to. Seems to be the LEO's that don't pick up their brass. At least I've got buckets of 40 and 357 sig brass to sell.

Also find unfired 40 cal ammo on ground pretty regularly.

ezenbrowntown
June 30, 2009, 05:01 PM
This isn't a "shooting" problem. It's a problem that affects shooting. People are this way everywhere, and in all venues. This attitude is carried over when people go out to eat ("It's their job to clean it up" mentality), leaving shopping carts strung out all over Wal-Mart parking lots (someone will get it), etc.

DCR
June 30, 2009, 05:22 PM
Why are Mr. Workman and the USFS so quick to blame it on "slob shooters?"

Seems to me it's illegal dumpers that are the problem, and the USFS needs to enforce its no-dumping rules instead of restricting shooting.

Workman describes aerosol cans (chemical hazardous waste not accepted by dumps) old computer monitors (again, dumps won't take them - toxic metals and lead in CRT) - as well as general junk and stolen cars. Not being able to dispose of these items legally or cheaply gives those who possess them more than ample motive to illegally dump them in the middle of nowhere.

I submit that shooters are not the problem here; some may be opportunists that shoot up the trash they find already on the ground, but nowhere was there one iota of proof that shooters were responsible for placing the debris he described on USFS land.

I wish Mr. Workman had called the USFS on this point; as a gun rights advocate, you'd think he'd have required some proof that shooters were responsible for the whole mess instead of blindly accepting what the USFS' characterization of the problem, much less trumpeted it across the whole interweb.

GodGuns&Guitars
June 30, 2009, 05:46 PM
There's a range near Colorado Springs where people take their old TVs, washers, driers, and various other items of house hold origin, dump it out, then shoot at it. When they're done they drive off leaving said items. Sad thing is, they also leave their trash. Empty boxes, Wal Mart bags or what ever else it was they brought guns and ammo in. There are also small children left to their own accord while mommy and daddy shoot. No hearing protection or any thing. Only good that comes from it is there is usually a lot of brass left behind for us reloaders.

alfack
June 30, 2009, 05:47 PM
I agree, it's not just shooters, but a-holes in general. I have seen bunches of supposed tree hugging hippies trash places and leave them that way after their protests and such. Maybe we should ban protests too?

TheFallGuy
June 30, 2009, 06:04 PM
If I had a penny for every piece of target, every case, trash, I have found where I shoot from the people that lived here before me I would be a wealthy man.

The worst is cigarette butts! People leave em every where (I am a smoker myself and always manage to dispose of them properly).

I know I was guilty of leaving brass lying around in a past life, but since the ammo crisis, I began reloading so I don't leave without all my brass!

I do most of my shooting on my property so I am forced to clean up or live in a junk yard. I think the problem here is EVERY user of the park. Since it isn't theirs, every body leaves trash. Seen the same thing in the BWCAW many times. But we (shooters) are bad people, but great scapegoats!

Dain Bramage
June 30, 2009, 06:09 PM
The actual Forest Service bulletin Mr. Workman links to in his article only mentions trash once in the last paragraph. The main gist of the closure is due to unsafe shooting practices. People not using backstops, shooting near campgrounds and trail heads, etc.

There have been some citations issued, but the main arguments are based on anecdotal evidence and "because we can" by the Forest Service. I'm sure some of these instances are true, as I am sure some are overblown. Hiking organizations in liberal Washington are not above grandstanding to get their way. Shooters, hunters, and ORV users are treated like pariahs in "their" woods.

BossHaug
June 30, 2009, 06:26 PM
As there is no "range" nearby for me to shoot at, I do all my shooting in the National Forest near my home. I regularly keep trash bags in my jeep, and police my shooting areas, as well as pick up trash on the ride home. The trash is mostly left behind by the "off-roaders" that trailer their quads up here on the weekends. (Not picking on them, just stating an observed fact). The FS is closing roads right and left around here, saying that people have torn up the forest so much, they have to do it to save it.

Walkalong
June 30, 2009, 06:51 PM
This isn't a "shooting" problem. It's a problem that affects shooting. People are this way everywhereExactly

The worst is cigarette butts!Yep. They are thrown down in front of every doorway in America I think. Our front door to the Hospital would have literally hundreds in less than a weeks time if not picked up by folks paid to do so. A Hospital for goodness sake. (Don't even get me started about the folks wheeling IV poles outside to smoke)

Yep, litter is a people problem, a slob problem, not just limited to shooters. I would hope as a group we are better than most, but the odds are against it.

Dave Workman
June 30, 2009, 06:58 PM
Actually, Dain, I live not far from this place and I've seen the trash.

DCR, if the problem were dumpers and not shooters, why would the stuff I mentioned be shot to pieces? A stolen car left in the woods is one thing.
A stolen car that gets shot full of holes doesn't get shot full of holes by itself. It has help.
Ditto aerosol cans, computer monitors, washing machines, televisions, and a whole list of other stuff.
If dumping was the problem, the area would not be closed to rec. shooting.

And keep this in perspective. It was MY stories in Gun Week that got the USFS to issue a memorandum calling "B.S." on local ranger districts for shutting off big sections of land claiming that a road is an "occupied area."

I've seen slob shooters in action. They ARE a problem.

Jorg Nysgerrig
June 30, 2009, 07:13 PM
I would be inclined to think shooters may not be so much to blame if it weren't for the thousands of posts I've seen over the years with people talking about taking their old tv/computer/cell phone out to shoot.

It seems to be that people who were just dumping their trash would throw it in someone else's dumpster, a vacant lot, the side of a road, or any of the dozens of places closer than more convenient than the local shooting spot. To get to the local place where people fill the desert with this shot up TVs, one has to drive past miles and miles of plenty of good places to dump things, but they always end up at the shooting spot. Seems like a hell of a coincidence to me.

rondog
June 30, 2009, 07:24 PM
There's a range near Colorado Springs where people take their old TVs, washers, driers, and various other items of house hold origin, dump it out, then shoot at it. When they're done they drive off leaving said items. Sad thing is, they also leave their trash. Empty boxes, Wal Mart bags or what ever else it was they brought guns and ammo in. There are also small children left to their own accord while mommy and daddy shoot. No hearing protection or any thing. Only good that comes from it is there is usually a lot of brass left behind for us reloaders.

You gotta be talking about Rampart, no doubt! Every time I've been there, the same old man was picking up brass as soon as it hit the ground. Had to give him the stink-eye to keep him away from mine. Ever go to that place in the burn area north of Woodland Park? It's OK, but is borderline 4x4 access only. At least it's not as trashy.

My favorite targets are soda cans and plastic bottles/jugs filled with water! Me and the grandson LOVE to shoot those things! But, we always take a box of large trash bags so we can pick 'em up and haul 'em off. Even shot to hell, they're still recyclable. I have a box of sporting clays to try out, but I need to soak one in water first to make sure they'll dissolve away like they say they will.

cchris
June 30, 2009, 07:55 PM
This reminds me of Mountain Rest, SC - the range was closed down because of people dragging trash onto the range. The ranger told me that one day he saw a car door on the side of the road. The next day, they were gone and he assumed someone cleaned up the trash. Nope, it was down the road, full of holes at the range. If I EVER see someone leave their garbage, I will ask them politely to pick it up.

Dave Workman
June 30, 2009, 08:49 PM
Jorg:
I think you've cracked a code!
;)

Avenger
June 30, 2009, 11:32 PM
It turns out that ODNR (Ohio Department of Natural Resources) has just decided to eliminate trash cans in most of the state parks. The thinking seems to be that people will haul out their own trash when they can't find any cans, saving the park the cost of emptying said cans.....uh-huh.

At the range I go to, it won't be a big deal, paper targets ONLY. And most people do tend to haul their 3 or 4 targets home after shooting anyway (for bragging rights, or out of shame, LOL), and brass is actively policed, one way or the other! But the rest of the park is going to end up looking like a dump.

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