[jimk66]

Looking for opinions on a good flashlight as an additional defensive weapon to compliment your primary carry weapon.
Thanks,
Jim

[Carl Levitian]

I've been carrying the old standby AA minimag for many years now. A few years ago, I put in the Nite-eyes LED conversion since the LED's have better impact resistance than the standard bulbs, plus you get a really longer run time. Negitive is you loose the long range adjustable spot, but you do get a nice soft blue-white flood that lights up everything in a good 30 yard radius. More than adaquite for finding your way arounjd a dark place. And if I have to use it like a battering ram on a thick skull, or loose it, I can replace it at Walmart for 8.99 for the light, and 4.99 for the LED conversion unit. Low cost enough that I can have them spaced around in the car glovebox, besides the bed, winter coat pocket.

Cheap, rugged, effective, and if nesseary, expendiable with chump change.

For around the house, I have a maglight 4 D cell with LED unit. Heavy enough to be a bone breaker.

The new factory LED maglights seem nice, I just haven't got around to trying one yet.

I'm not sure I understand the hundred dollar flashlight thing.

[bikerdoc]

Got a low end LED with a crenalated bezel about the size of of a mini mag, it will ruin your day.

[hso]

I like the size of the Inova and Fenix lights as small impact devices although the power of a Surefire has advantages as well.

Of course a multicell Maglite can be a handy tool as well if impact over compact is desired.

[cgs500]

I just went through this and bought both a Olight M20 (http://www.olightworld.com/proi/cn/product_list.asp?type_id=49) and a Surefire E2D LED (http://www.surefire.com/E2DL). I wanted something for my carry on bag since I travel a bunch and can't always have my CHL piece with me. I like the Olight (it has four modes,low,med, high and strobe) but prefer the simplicity of the SF (high 120 lumens and low 7 lumens). Even though the Olight says it's 240 lumens they are both comparable as far as area coverage. I don't see the Olight as being any brighter, maybe slighly more spill and a whiter light than the SF. Both are easily twice as bright as my 4 D cell LED Mag Light but the batteries are a couple of months old in the Mag.

The front strike bezel is a bit sharper on the SF and also more pronounced on the tail end. I will carry the SF over the O because of this but I would be OK with the Olight if I were forced to live with it. I think the finish and workmanship on either light is good with the threads feeling slightly smoother on the SF. The Olight is half again larger in dia. on the head and maybe a 1/4 inch longer than the SF.

I gave the Olight to my son for his B-day but as I stated I would have been happy with it if I needed to live with it. I didn't handle the Fenix TK11 (http://http://www.fenixlight.com/viewproduct.asp?id=80)but I will at an up coming gun show and might pick one up and see what I think of it.

I bought both off ebay with the discount of 8% they were offering if paying through PayPal.

Good luck!

[Dimis]

I gotta agree with Carl i have a Mini Maglite and it does the job just fine im not a fan of LEDs so mine still has the standard bulb but i did upgrade it with the IQ switch from niteize it allows me to operate it at 3 power levels and two strobeing features the best part about the tailswitch is that it has a small red led in it that constantly blinks when the beam is off so if you drop it at night you can find it

i never liked the expencive lights either but i will say this some of them are brighter by a long shot and some are even tougher too i do like surefire products but 100+ is alot for a light even if it will outlast the cockroaches

[Doug S]

I wouldn't use it for an impact weapon, but I just bought my first Fenix LED (P1D Q5 $50), and I have to say I'm very impressed. Very bright for it's tiny size. I have a few Surefires, but the Fenix has become my new EDC. Fit and finish on the Fenix is as good as the SF, and it's also brighter with 180 lumens. Can't speak about durability over time, but so far I'm impressed.

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp42/dmattaponi/fenixp1d-1.jpg

[sm]

I have come to the conclusion :

- Intermittent Switch, such as I was raised with , and mentored with such as the old chrome, glass lens, two, three and four cell "heavy duty" battery flashlights, are the best flashlights for home, office, vehicle, and having on person when taking a walk.

That said, since nobody makes a flashlight with a intermittent switch, I have come to the conclusion :

- 3 D cell Maglite.
- 2 AA cell Maglite
- Key chain LED

Are the best way to go.

Simple,proven, rugged, easy to get batteries, bulbs , maintain, available locally, societal friendly , courtroom friendly, "blends in" and not "that" expensive to purchase if needed in the first place, or if "if needed" or replace if lost, stolen.
Warranty is outstanding.

[alaskanativeson]

I have quite a range of flashlights. I have several Pelicans because in the winter up here I really don't want to have to hold a metal light. I have a couple of Fenix lights, nice lights but quite a bit for what you get when compared with some of my simpler lights.

I just picked up a Coleman Max from Wally World for $20. Sturdy aluminum body, VERY bright Cree LED, and it works on 3 AAA batteries. One other nice thing, with the turn of a dial I can change from the very bright white Cree to a night vision saving red LED or a good blood trail following green LED. I've been quite plesed with it, and i t'd serve as the right size for am impromptu kubotan.

In addition to my Fenixes, Ultra Fires, Pelicans, Streamlights, I have two recent acquisitions that go with me when I travel. For a headlight, I have a Zebralight H30 Q5 (http://goinggear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14_20&products_id=90) which I really like. It uses 1 lithium battery, but unlike many of the LED lights you can use either the regular 3.0v CR123 or the 3.7 rechargable CR123 so I don't have to keep buying batteries. It casts a smooth and VERY bright light over a wide area.

The other is a Proton Pro (http://www.photonlight.com/Proton-PRO-AA-Handheld-LED-Flashlights-Headlamps-p/prpro-aa-led-flashlight.htm) which is a remarkably small light (it works on 1 AA battery) and yet it's VERY bright and tough. I really like this little light.

[gtoken]

I bought an S&W SW775LX flashlight recently. It was on sale at Buy.com for less than $30. Its heavy enough to get someones attention for sure. I dont really care for the button switch on the end.

http://www.gunforall.com/images/igc/55752.jpg

I might add that I was looking for something that used AA batteries and had an LED bulb.

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

Brightness is more important than anything for me, guys.

I've had at least 5 dogs (people in my neighborhood are idiots, and animal control is worthless) come charging at me full speed, only to stop dead in their tracks when I light them up with my flashlight.

I would imagine a human would feel confused as well.


That said, you have to take size and price into consideration as well, and the best compromise for me is the surefire G2 with cree replacement LED.

[Fosbery]

Fenix TK20, TK21 or TK30.

[conwict]

Random thoughts:

Crenellated strike bezels just look bad in court. A small blunt weapon is effective enough without intentionally breaking skin.

Maglite AA has great construction and price, but Innova has construction that even rivals surefire and lots of different models, plus brighter than Maglites.

http://www.led-replacement.com/lt-3.html
http://www.lighthound.com/ArcMania-Super-MJ-LED-upgrade-for-Mini-Maglight-Flashlight-SMJLED_p_83.html

^Those are two drop-in mods for AA maglite loyalists, of different brightness and price. More are available.

The brightness of Fenix, Olight, and just about every light other than Surefire is inflated by about 20% or more. This is due to a variety of reasons: some companies use a "bench test," measuring every last drop of light coming from the emitter in perfect conditions, not taking into account what's lost by the reflector. Other companies just do a math formula without testing with precision equipment. Surefire, and probably Pelican, are two of the only companies that give you "OTF" or out-the-front lumens. Maybe Streamlight does as well. This isn't necessarily a bad thing; just don't buy a "180-lumen" Olight over a 120 lumen surefire based on the number alone.

Best deal overall for a SMALL general use pocket light with great fit and finish is the Streamlight Stylus series. Width is way more important than length in terms of compact lights!

The Hong Kong lights available on Dealextreme will fill most needs for 1/4 the price of most anything else, and they certainly have tough construction. You can drop in a Cree Q5 or Rebel R2 or whatever you desire if you're so inclined, and come out cheaper than Olight or Fenix.

Brightness is way more subjective than people think. Tint has a lot to do with how we perceive it, as well as task. More lumens does not necessarily mean more throw.

[glistam]

If brightness is priority combined with frugality, I like the Olight T25.

It uses standard AA batteries, has a CREE Q5, and on full power, puts out a whopping 5800 lux at the center point (not the same as lumen, also this measurement was taken post market by a reviewer). On it's lowest setting it can run for 80 hours straight. It has a high-speed strobe feature and a tail switch that can be used in a momentary fashion for very precise flashes.

Here's the best part: Retails for about $60.

[musick]

My flashlight koppo has been my constant travel companion in over 25 countries - I would never travel w/o one. One of the most undervalued/underestimated SD tools ever once you understand how to use it. I carry it on my person and have never had anyone question it - from security checkpoints in airports to royal palaces to court rooms.

Mine is a 3 AAA LED metal bodied and has the on/off button on the tail cap (which is essential on a SD light IMO). When it is in my hand, either end extends about an inch outside my fist.

Anyone that thinks that these are ineffective has never been on the receiving end of one. Flash and smash.

[PA Freedom]

A 4 or 6 D-cell Maglite could do massive damage in the right hands. I keep a 6 cell in my Jeep, and always carry it while walking or fishing at night. I always have a handgun on me, but the light also goes along, carried in my weak side hand.

[rondog]

I recently bought a Smith & Wesson flashlight at Big 5 Sporting Goods, on sale for $29.99. Kinda comparable to a Surefire G2, I think. Not something I could use to whack somebody with, but it's damn sure a bright lil' sumbitch! Sure wouldn't to have it shined in MY eyes from 5 feet away. Uses some kinda special little high-powered batteries. They're still on sale, I think I need another one.

[JShirley]

Some good information here. Guys, there are a lot more good choices available now than even just three years ago. I see multiple, fairly similar versions of lights from several manufacturers in the bigger stores, differing only in battery type: AA, AAA, 123, and sometimes even N.

If you are deciding between picking a 2xAA light vs. a 3xAAA, pick the AA. The cartridge carriers on the triple AAA lights make them much more fragile than the more traditional in-line battery types.

Y'all could just imagine I posted a reply that said everything that conwict said, only in different words. :rolleyes: :D To especially repeat, the strike bezel is a gimmick, and (IMO) a silly one, at that.

John

[Webbj0219]

what about this?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnkjvEdeIlc

i think it costs a bit more because of the batteries cheapest i could find were $20 so whole assemble was about $25

[JMusic]

Light is only the half of it like a weapon you need to use it to your advantage. I like real cheap clip on hat lED's, surefires, I carry a 1EL, have 6N's 9n" but by far the Blackbear lights are tops. I bought 2 bearcubs for my wife and daughter this xmas. I have the Borealis.

Best defense with a light is a startled burst up close. Using lights should be A course in itself and I have saved my life with certain techniques. These were non impact methods. Now couple the impact ability of impacts from a streamlight or mag light you now have an offensive weapon. My opinion bright light is the most important impact is secondary. I have on occasion had to send a mag light back for repair. The usual bad lens or switch or hammering the batteries out and straightening the body.:evil:

I've used lights for years. when someone confronts you and you hit them with 60 lumens or so in the eyes, they can't see and they also don,t know what else you may have on you. Keep that in mind.


Jim

[Carl Levitian]

"Random thoughts:

Crenellated strike bezels just look bad in court. A small blunt weapon is effective enough without intentionally breaking skin."

A fact to consider in this day of liability suits and political correctness of the unwashed masses.

[JMusic]

I don't claim to be an expert but if your in the right a bezel won't make a difference in court and If been there. A bezel has limited use though unless your and expert. I would wit them with a light then hit them in the throat bezel first or just under the nose. I light used properly with the proper tone of confidence will keep you out of a fight not get you in one.



Jim

[conwict]

JMusic wrote:

Best defense with a light is a startled burst up close. Using lights should be A course in itself and I have saved my life with certain techniques. These were non impact methods. Now couple the impact ability of impacts from a streamlight or mag light you now have an offensive weapon. My opinion bright light is the most important impact is secondary.

It definitely depends on the situation, but if you're *already* being attacked light will do little to nothing. If you're being interviewed on your home turf by someone in a car or something like that, a blast of bright light and an authoritative, cop-like, "Move along, I don't want any part of this" could get the job done.

I don't claim to be an expert but if your in the right a bezel won't make a difference in court and If been there. A bezel has limited use though unless your and expert. I would wit them with a light then hit them in the throat bezel first or just under the nose.

Unfortunately, lots of situations are he-said vs he-said and who's in the right is determined by context clues. Let's get hypothetical:

You are in a bad part of town, going into a gas station. You are lightly shoved by a large, muscular member of a minority group (wait and see where I'm going with this) and you ignore it and decide to get back in your car rather than get gas. There are other people around who are now watching you. The guy gets in front of your car door and says "What b****? What?"

Now, let's say you want to get out of there before his buddies show up...you
a) get out your Surefire Defender or whatnot
b) get out your Minimag AA

Either way, you end the threat, get in your car, leave if necessary, and call the cops (the other people got your plate # anyway, so you want to be the first one to call).

When you go back to the scene with the officer, the group of people is now accusing you of using a racial slur and being the one who shoved the big guy.

If this goes to court, it's your word against theirs and we all know how juries can become prejudiced by things like race. You struck an unarmed man with a metal object. I think it looks better in court if that object is one that the jury is familiar with and comfortable with, rather than one intended for fighting. And keep in mind lawyers aren't stupid. If the DA or prosecuting attorney is worth his salt, he can twist the jury's opinion based on the fact that you used a light that is actually a weapon on an unarmed man.

Your mileage may vary, but I strongly prefer something that is nearly as effective and won't get me fried in court.

[JayDubs]

People in the bad part of town don't call the cops... that's the problem, haha.

Honestly, I have no comment on the court proceedings part of this argument. Me <-- not a lawyer.

As for the effectiveness of strike bezels, my guess is that they're just as effective as they look. I have a light with strike bezels, and a quick look says that the strike surface is about 1/4 of what it would be without them. That means that strike pressure probably goes up 4 times on hard surfaces (elbow, skull, hand bones, etc.). Think flanged mace vs club, but to a lesser degree.

I'd love to see a real experiment though. Anyone have any lights they don't need, and some coconuts?

[glistam]

While we're on the medical side of strike bezels, here's my educated guess on that:

Penetration would be rather minimal. When aimed at the scalp, the wounds would be largely superficial, albeit very bloody with repeated hits. But I would argue, when hitting the head the goal usually is concussive force (shaking the brain) rather than cutting or piercing. Really any sufficiently hard, dense object will do for that purpose.

When applied against the body, clothing can decrease or even eliminate lacerations, rendering the bezel moot. On unclothed parts, a direct hit may cause acute bruises or puncture wounds where the bezel hits. Will that deter the assailant better than a non-crenellated bezel? Eh, depends on a lot of variables. A raking strike on an unclothed part of the body will potentially cause shallow lacerations or "cat scratch." Yes, that will hurt, but not always. I've been raked by a rose bush and not noticed until somebody pointed it out. It happens, even without adrenaline.

Not saying crenellated bezels are good or bad. Just know what it will and will not do in a defensive situations, and always weigh it against a non-crenellated.

[litework]

In my opinion, a light that is to compliment a firearm should be simple to operate, be reliable, and be fairly bright. It should also be portable enough that you can carry it without too much difficulty.

I also believe in paying good money for a good flashlight. I firmly believe that a flashlight saved my grandmother's life many years ago, and the fact that I had a good flashlight with me kept me out of a potentially bad situation when I was playing the role of good samaritan earlier this year. A gun can get me out of a jam, but my flashlight has played a preventative role on two occassions.
I have two flashlights that compliment my weapon very well in the picture below. The anglehead is a Firstlight Tomahawk. The black light is a modified Surefire Z2. It has a Malkoff M60 and a Surefire loop. After this photo was taken, I removed the bezel on the Surefire because it hurt the profile of the beam. Both lights can run on rechargeable batteries-if needed.

They are both very bright, but not so bright that they cause a lot of back reflection. I hate seeing photos of flashlights with beams that are so bright that you can't easily identify the target because they become lost in a blinding white aura.

http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr95/litework_photo/DSC00442.jpg

[OregonJohnny]

My only "high-end" light is a Surefire E2D LED Defender (strike bezel), although I have used many other Surefires, and have owned many disappointing lights, both LED and bulb. Of all the lights I've ever used, the E2D is definitely my favorite, and also the most useful in the largest spectrum of scenarios. 5 lumens for 76 hours, or 120 lumens for 2 hours. Small, streamlined body. Bright white, perfectly-focused beam. Then there's the strike bezel. Sure, in a pinch, it can be used as weapon. But it may have some other uses as well. From Surefire's website:

"Crenellated Strike Bezel™ Also Good for Gripping Ice
Last winter, I was out on the lake, testing for a good place to drill a hole through the ice for ice-fishing. The ice suddenly cracked and gave way, completely submerging me in the freezing-cold water. When I reemerged, I gasped for air, ripped open the front pocket of my jacket, and pulled out my E2D Defender®. I used its crenellated bezel to get a good grip in the surface ice and pull myself out.

I would've been fish food had it not been for that little gem of a flashlight.

Tyler M.
East Petersburg, PA"

[KBT1911]

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa169/killian45/macelight.jpg

Here you go. You turn it on and off by striking it against something

[jimk66]

Thanks everyone for your input. I sinally purchased a Fenix OD30 for my wife and s Surefire E2D Defender for myself. Both seem awsome!
Best regards,
JimK66

[rnr4me]

alaskanativeson
Senior Member
I have quite a range of flashlights. I have several Pelicans because in the winter up here I really don't want to have to hold a metal light.....

After I put an LED into a C-cell mag lite for my wife, she complained about the ice cold barrel in the winter. So I got some of that 'tool handle' plastic dip (from Home Depot) and painted most of the light. I put about 4 coats on it and it's done the job for her. She reports that insulation factor keeps her hands from freezing.

Nite-eze also makes a neoprene handle/jacket for the C/D cell mag lights too. I've got one on my Dcell that rides in my truck.

[Leadhead]

I'm not sure why some people think s "strike bezel" would be a gimick....I can undersand the court rational but if I'm defending myself with a tool that I bought legaly and have not modified myself I have a hard time beleiving that somehow I will become the bad guy in court!

If I had to use a flashlight to strike someone I'd rather have a "strike bezel" style as it will inflict more damage should the blow be glancing or less then perfect.

If the impact is straight on and well delivered there is probably not a lot of difference but if somehow during and event the defendee is not able to deliver a perfect solid blow I'd give the advantage to the tool with the serrated end.....

[JayDubs]

One comment on strike bezels, semi off topic- Since the chance that I'll have to actually use them is very small, it should be noted they can be rather inconvenient depending on how you carry the light. I hear carrying them "down" in a pocket can tear a whole in the bottom over time, so I carry mine "up" in the back pocket and it sticks out a little. I'm always afraid I'll gouge a friend's couch or something sitting down. It would be absolutely horrible trying to explain how there's a hole in their couch because I thought it necessary to carry a scary tactical light everywhere.

On the shopping side, the biggest problem I have with my cheapo surefire knockoff from ebay is the pocket clip is terrible. Just FYI.

[conwict]

Leadhead - as others have stated, unless you're gouging the face I don't really see how a glancing blow with the striker would do a whole lot. Sure, it'll draw blood, but if you're wailing on someone with a portable lighting device chances are that you'll need to do more than just draw blood.

As far as your perspective on becoming a bad guy in court, well, I disagree based on plenty of real scenarios (not involving strike bezels) where someone was already in a "questionable" position - for example, no witnesses on their side of the fight and a bunch of witnesses supporting the guy who started it. A strike bezel could potentially be construed as a deadly weapon, whereas a regular bezel would not.

[TimboKhan]

I'm not sure I understand the hundred dollar flashlight thing.

I'm not sure I do either, given that there are a lot of good (albeit still expensive when compared to your mini-mag) options out there these days for considerably less. While maglights are well built and easy to find, I can justify a more expensive flashlight based entirely on superior performance. Heck, my keychain light, which is a Fenix E01, kicks out more usable light over short distances than a mini-mag without the LED kit. 15 bucks for a keychain light seems expensive, and I guess it is, but I am totally and completely satisfied with the performance and quality of that light.

In terms of weaponry, I suspect any flashlight with a metal body of some sort would fill the bill. I mean, how fancy does it need to be to whack someone? I keep a D-cell maglite around the house for exactly that reason. Frankly, if your main goal is to use it as a defensible weapon, I agree with Carl. Maglites are cheap, and I imagine they hurt as much as any other more expensive light. If you are looking for an excellent light that can also be used as a skullcracker, well, that is a pretty long list of choices.

[musick]

I'm not sure I understand the hundred dollar flashlight thing.


I'm not sure I do either

Thirded.

LEDs are very tolerant to impact and generally quite bright if you are spending ~$20 or more. Metal is metal, and I see no difference between a Surefire and a knockoff.

[illinois brass man]

+1 I'm not sure I understand the hundred dollar flashlight thing.

4-6 d cell maglite for the car and around the house and mini maglite in my pocket works for me.

[Deltaboy]

4 d cells Mag lights in the rigs and a AA mini-mag in my pocket.

[litework]

LEDs are very tolerant to impact and generally quite bright if you are spending ~$20 or more. Metal is metal, and I see no difference between a Surefire and a knockoff.

There's also no difference between a Glock and a Lorcin when you oversimplify the comparison.

[Bullethead67]

I carry a 4d mag in my taxi.

Ive had to get out of the car on numerous occasions to settle a disagreement.

Never had to use it as a weapon, but it seems to work great as a deterrent. Or maybe its because Im 6' 2" 250#.;)

J

[JayDubs]

Actually, I have been thinking about getting a light specifically to leave in my car, mostly for illumination but also as a little "attitude adjustment" device if necessary. I figure that would give me 2 lower levels of force at my disposal. Bright light and improvised club are good options, because I really really REALLY don't want to have to use a handgun on a roadrager. A big D-cell light seems to fit the bill. Do you guys have any recommendations? The only ones I know of are the maglites, though obviously they're pretty well proven to work. Are there any other good products out there I should take a look at, either other D-cell lights or things similarly sized?

[Stainz]

I got a new S-F 6P (incandescent) shipped off evil-bay for <$40 last year, intent on putting an aftermarket LED head in it. The incandescent lamp puts out 55-60 Lumens of yellowish light for 50 minutes on two CR123s. Adding a S-F P60L, a bargain then for <$30 with s/t, effectively made it a 6P LED - which I already had. Great car lights - over ten year shelf life in wide temp ranges on those cells - and the light could be handy in a defensive encounter.

I will always have a one or two CR123 cell light for emergencies - the cells are too dependable and the energy storage/size-mass is unreal. The best examples are actually from S-F - and $21/12. Some stores have Duracells - not as good as S-F - for ~$5/ea! I bought 3 doz CR123s - 3 boxes - for <$70 shipped 2nd Day from S-F 2/08. I had two 6p LEDs and a single cell Fenix, adding a S-F E1b Backup 5/08 and an E2DL 9/08. I use my lights frequently - and am finally into the second box... probably because someone needed to 'borrow' some!

The E1b is not a real head conker - unless you swap tail switches with the E2DL - like I did so the E2DL would fit in my KSF sheath with a fb knife. The benefit the S_Fs have is that they are well made, dependable, and disorientingly bright. The little Fenix I bought is blinding on Turbo - and irritating on strobe/Turbo - when you find the setting - and if the threads were properly lubed (It is much more sensitive than the S-F's.). The E1b is dependable - and my EDC as a pocket light. They went up 9/08 - you can likely get an E2DL cheaper. I don't skimp on my EDC CCWs, either.

Stainz

PS I like the utility, in an emergency, of the S-F E-series going on high the first click. My main use is at night - double clicking for 'low' so I can avoid cats & kittens in the dark of night as I find the bathroom.

[JShirley]

If I had to use a flashlight to strike someone I'd rather have a "strike bezel" style as it will inflict more damage should the blow be glancing or less then perfect.

I just have seen no evidence of this. It will definitely tend to cut more, but that's not automatically preferable.

John

[Leadhead]

Neither have I John,
Purely speculation on my part....I agree with the others that it is more practical to have a regular bezel for pocket use and for most of what I use a flashlight for.

Somehow though I still feel that for striking or applying pressure on an attacker the serrated bezel is not necessarily a bad concept....

I guess given the choice .....I'd rather be hit by a smooth one then a serrated.


Perhaps if your attacker has a blood disease and you've got open wounds your self then spilling blood might be a bad thing but that's a bit of a stretch.

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

I don't know about you guys, but I'm not going to be hitting anyone with the flashlight.
I am going to be using the flashlight to make sure they can't see the other hand/foot coming their way at high velocity.

[JShirley]

Well, there definitely are advantages to using even a small flashlight as an impact tool. All the force of a blow can be focused on a much smaller point, which is helpfully made of metal. There are diminishing returns, though. If you get too fine with your point, you're just left with a knife. Which is actually less useful as an impact tool.

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

You certainly raise a good point, John.
If someone really didn't want to let go of something important of mine, a good rap from the flashlight to the back of the hand would be useful in helping them decide to let go.

However, I think breaking skin and chipping/hurting bone with a more focused blow is less desirable when trying to hit someone in the head.
I still think a surprise blow from behind a blinding light or an unseen, speeding foot to the bojangles would be much more effective than a flashlight to the face.

[conwict]

Just a little off-topic (kinda) flashlight tidbit, countycomm now has an amazing deal on a 1xAAA light that throws out either 60 or 80 noninflated (read: fenix and other asian brands inflate by 20-30%) lumens on high, 18 on medium, and 1 on low. I'm getting one soon. Could be a good all-purpose non-weaponized light.

[JMusic]

Lee I would have to agree about the bezele. Like using a 1/2 inch pocket knife. I have one on my EL but I don't think you would get more than superficial cuts. I can guarantee the are not a striking weapon. I've seen guys hit with 5 and 6 cell Mag lights and not go down. Some had to send them back to get the batteries out of the light:evil:.

My preference is firearm, light, and cane. I would not recomend light less than 3dmaglight If I plan to use it as a club.



Jim

[Furious Kang]

I keep a Streamlight Stylus Pro on me at work, keep a 4 C cell maglite in the car. I've got the ubiquitous Surefire's, Scorpion's, Mini-Mags, and some cheap lights from Dr LED I found on Ebay. I'll switch them up from time to time, but the Stylus is small has a metal barrel and a pocket clip that Mini Mags do not. It's more than sturdy enough to use as a kubotan if needed.

[Demitrios]

I was a bouncer for 9 1/2 years and I'll tell you right now, that Surefire E2D Defender is a terrific light. Sturdy as hell, bright enough to blind you with your eyes closed (I can personally attest to this) and the gouges at either end are perfect for disarming, smashing or just plain "convincing" your adversary to do anything you want them to do. Again I'm speaking from personal experience on this one and out of any flashlight I've ever owned that would be the one I want on me at all times. Plus since they use lithium batteries you can always count on maximum output in brightness until those batteries are done.

[conwict]

bright enough to blind you with your eyes closed (I can personally attest to this)

Sorry, I don't agree, also based on experience. Even my friend's 240ish lumen light(maybe more like 210 by surefire's more exacting standards) won't actually "blind" me.

There is some logic behind using a light as a distractor/attention getter but we need to lay this "X lumens will literally blind you" myth to rest.

[JayDubs]

I think that when most people talk about "blinding" someone, they mean the effect on someone whose vision has already adjusted to darkness rather than during the day or in a lit room. In those conditions, my light certainly has very detrimental, if temporary effects on a person's vision. There are some lights that could literally blind you in all conditions (they can light paper on fire through light intensity) but I don't think they're meant to be practical tools.

As for the sharp bezel issue, they would be useful if you wanted to apply pressure to control an opponent, much like the mentioned kubotans can be used. And a cutting strike with blunt edges, even if superficial in real damage, is likely to be quite painful. Might be enough to move someone along.