[nsf003]

It has a bolt action, wood stocked, looks like c+r. Old, from WWII or before.

Has Choteceraul (couldn't read it that well)or something along with M then M.16 on the side.

Bore looks a little bigger than 30 caliber, but I'm not sure by how much. .308 caliber bullets from my reload bench fit in with room to spare.

It has a metal buttplate. The magazine is fixed, and the neck on the 30-06 round i tried to insert was too high.

The magazine also has a small trapdoor built into the bottom, not sure what it does.

For everyone who is wondering why I'm asking, this was my grandfathers rifle that was given to me when he died. I just took it down from the wall and wanted to identify it.

Thanks

nsf003

[Illuminate]

Possibly a 1916 Berthier. http://www.angelfire.com/vt/milsurp/berthier16.html

[nemesis]

Possibly a Berthier. I think many of the Berthier artillery carbines were arsenal upgraded in 1916 and identified as "M 16".

Has Choteceraul (couldn't read it that well)or something along with M then M.16 on the side.

Chatelleraut? Chassepot?

[MaterDei]

If you guys are right, you guys are studs.

Well nsf??? Are they right???

[nsf003]

Chatelleraut

Yeah, I think thats what was printed on the side of the gun, probably.

Two problems though, with the one gun suggested. My gun's bolt is facing down, not straight out, when the action is closed and I believe it's barrel is shorter.

nsf003

[Illuminate]

It may be a 1892/16 Berthier Musketoon as seen here: http://oldrifles.com/French.htm

[Mike Irwin]

It's an Fusil Mle 1916 chambered in 8mm Lebel. It's chambered in 8x51R Lebel, a round that's not very common anymore.

It's best called a Lebel Berthier. The Lebel contribution to the rifle (I can't remember if it was an actual person or not) is the bolt. Not a great contribution.

Berthier redesigned the original Lebel 1886 rifle in a series of steps, and added the magazine system by Mannlicher (more on this below).

In otherwords, it's a standard French military rifle designed during WW I as an adjunct to other rifles then in French service.

The stamp (probably in script) is Chaterault (I think that's the spelling).

The little door on the magazine is where the "enbloc" or "packet" clip falls out. These rifles are like the M1 Garand in that the ammo is fixed into a carrier that is inserted into the rifle. When the last round is fired, the carrier, in this case a Mannlicher clip, drops through that little port.

Your rifle should look something like this (the bolt handle is partially open, that's why it's in the air), but with a metal magazine partially extending below the action. The rifle in this picture is an Mle 1907/15.

http://www.rememuseum.org.uk/arms/rifles/armfrc/arm112.jpg


I'm looking for a picture of the ammo for this rifle, with the Mannlicher clip, but so far no joy.

[Mike Irwin]

Oh, crap, OK.

It sounds as if you have the Carbine. I have one of those.

This is the Mle 1916 Carbine...

http://www.rememuseum.org.uk/arms/rifles/armfrc/arm113.jpg


And a closeup of the action...

http://www.rememuseum.org.uk/arms/rifles/armfrc/arm113a.jpg

[Illuminate]

http://www.angelfire.com/nh/milarm/images/clipb16.jpg

There's a picture of the ammo.

[nsf003]

I think it is the musketoon. I guess i can't get any cheap surplus ammo for it to shoot.


nsf003

[nsf003]

I didn't see your second post Mike, it looks exactly like the carbine.

nsf003

[Illuminate]

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=12932693

There's an auction for 50 rounds. Seems to run from 1 to 2 dollars a round. :(

[Mike Irwin]

I wouldn't touch that ammo. Corrosive as hell.

In the 1920s through the 1950s Remington manufactured 8x50R Lebel ammo.

Kind of hard to find, but out there. I've got two boxes floating around somewhere.

[Illuminate]

Corrosive as hell.

The looks or the primer?

[4v50 Gary]

Even the Carcano is easier on the eyes.