Would you rather have 3 shots or 2 chokes?

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Which is more important to you for hunting birds? I.e. double gun or repeater?

[oneounceload]

Assuming they BOTH fit perfectly, I'll take the double. In my varying experience, the third shot is usually wasted

[Bud Tugly]

Depends on the kind of birds and the terrain. IMO a double with 2 chokes and double triggers is best for grouse and similar game in thick cover where you will rarely get more than 1-2 shots. If you're hunting waterfowl or pheasants in more open terrain, then a third shot may come in handy.

Then there's your personal preference. I love the feel of a nice SxS and prefer it over pumps and semi-autos but others will certainly disagree.

[PJR]

For upland two chokes because it means I'm using a breaking gun and they are handier and IMO safer than a repeater or autoloader.

For waterfowl from a blind where you are shooting from a fixed position I'd rather have the third shot. Breaking guns are sometimes cumbersome in a blind and the benefits are not as great when shooting from a fixed position.

[Floppy_D]

I voted 3 shotss... when the bird flushes, it's all reaction for me; I don't have time to think what trigger I was to use... I'm too busy focusing on swing through and trigger control. Maybe the more experienced guys can take the time to think about, but if I don't swing and focus it's a goner. I may not even use the third shot, but at least I've only got one pattern to worry about.

[308win]

Depends on for what? In most wing shooting situations the third shot can often be at the edge of range in many circumstances. If for SD then 7 or 8 shots is better.:D

[waterhouse]

I agree with PJR.

Upland I prefer 2 barrels. Waterfowl I'll take the 3rd shot.

[ArmedBear]

In Idaho, I can hunt upland with an unplugged gun.

That makes autoloaders more attractive -- not to blast lead away at the air, but so that I have a few shots in reserve for a second rise. Quail, chukar and the like in the hills don't always all rise as one covey. They usually don't.

But if I have to plug the gun, 2 chokes beats 3 shots and one choke every time. Once you've had two chokes, it becomes a lot harder to decide which one choke you'd want. Do you go tighter, and miss or blow apart closer birds, or more open, and limit your range? I'd vote for neither, by using both chokes.:)

Shooting in a blind is a different story, and the choice of gun trumps the choice of chokes, generally.

[huntsman]

2 shots 2 chokes, I don't hunt waterfowl anymore.

[rcmodel]

Number of shots or choice of chokes make no difference to me at all.

All my doubles have had single selective triggers, and you never have time to make a choice anyway when a bird gets up.

I like doubles for the esthetic's & beauty of a finely built gun.

But I prefer shooting & hunting with semi-autos because they don't kick as hard.

rc

[ArmedBear]

All my doubles have had single selective triggers, and you never have time to make a choice anyway when a bird gets up.

I've done it. In the uncommon instance when a faraway bird is incoming, you have time. Most field situations involve a bird flying away, though. So you still have the benefit of two chokes, whether or not you use the selector much

I have a dual trigger SxS. I actually have an easier time selecting the barrel with a selector, especially SKB-style on the trigger. With the SxS, I find my finger lands on the wrong trigger as often as not.

With the SKB selector, you leave it on Lower/Upper. If you want to take a long shot, you just tap a little button on the trigger, and you're good to go with Upper/Lower.

[RUT]

As an auto shooter, just one works for me. ;)

[ArmedBear]

Another thing...

The more trigger time I get, the more I get sick of contraptions.

Semiautos, pumps, etc. feel like contraptions, not firearms, to me -- mere machines.

I'm finding that I end up liking the same sorts of guns that people like Elmer Keith have, over the years.

http://www.elmerkeithrifle.com/files/images/rifleandelmer.preview.jpg
I don't wear hats like his, though.:D

[Larry Ashcraft]

My dad said once, "Third shot's usually a prayer, anyway."

I've used an unplugged auto in Kansas, blocking for pheasants (it was legal there at the time, may still be), but 99% of the time now, I'll be carrying an O/U. I do enjoy shooting doves with a SXS 28 ga though.

If I have time to switch the selector for a shot, I usually have enough time to talk myself into a miss. :) The faster I have to shoot, the better I do, it seems.

[geniusiknowit]

I've never hunted fowl.

Is the 2-choke setup for dealing with the game at different distances?

[ArmedBear]

Is the 2-choke setup for dealing with the game at different distances?

Yes.

For example, I have a light 20 Gauge O/U with fixed IC/M chokes (that means IC on bottom and M on top). The default setting is for the trigger to shoot the Bottom, then the Top. Say I kick up some quail. I can shoot right away with the IC, without blowing the bird apart, and then with the M if the bird doesn't drop, or if there's another bird flying away.

OTOH, say there's a dove on a wire, dropping down towards me into a field. I can tap a little button on the trigger and use the M for the longer shot, then the IC for the closer shot as the dove closes in.

[ArmedBear]

If I have time to switch the selector for a shot, I usually have enough time to talk myself into a miss. The faster I have to shoot, the better I do, it seems.

Agreed. However, there are some hunting scenarios where it's more obvious that you'll want tight-open instead of open-tight, like the dove on a wire I mentioned above.

[rcmodel]

Yes.

The theory is if you are walking up birds over a bird-dog, the first shot will be close and the second one further out as the covy scatters.

Decoy duck hunting just the opposite.
Birds coming into decoys will be further out the first shot and closer as they try to change direction and flair away.

Which is all fine in theory, but is seems it never works that way in practice.

No matter which choke you have set to fire first, you always seem to need the other one! And no time to change the selector.

rc

[waterhouse]

The faster I have to shoot, the better I do, it seems.

Funny how that works. I swear I nail birds that flush unexpectedly but when the dogs have a strong point and I start thinking about the flush I sometimes end up winging or even missing. Crazy how the mind works.

I can't ever remember switching barrels for a shot, but it is handy to have IC as the birds flush and M as they get a little farther away.

[JWF III]

For me it depends on what birds are being hunted, and what the particular situation is.

Any flushing bird (quail, pheasant, grouse, etc.) I'll grab a double everytime. Shoot the IC first and the MOD second (as the birds are getting further out).

Decoying ducks I'll grab the gun with three shots and an IC choke. In this situation, the birds are coming towards you. I can get all three (when needed/multiple birds) with the birds in very similar range. Number one as they're coming towards me. Number two as they're turning. Number three as they're leaving.

Pass shooting ducks or doves I'll reach for three shots and a full set of choke tubes. And I switch out the tubes as the flight pattern of the day warrants.

Wyman

ETA-No matter which choke you have set to fire first, you always seem to need the other one! And no time to change the selector.


Two triggers will fix that problem. With a little practice you can subconciously pick the trigger/barrel you need first.

[oneounceload]

But I prefer shooting & hunting with semi-autos because they don't kick as hard.

perhaps those other guns didn't fit you, or at least as well........

[ArmedBear]

I can't ever remember switching barrels for a shot, but it is handy to have IC as the birds flush and M as they get a little farther away.


When I've switched barrels, it's for something like passing doves, not flushing birds coming up from the ground or out of the brush.

Funny how that works. I swear I nail birds that flush unexpectedly but when the dogs have a strong point and I start thinking about the flush I sometimes end up winging or even missing. Crazy how the mind works.


I missed a pheasant like that, one of those I had to practically kick to get it to fly out of a field. My dog was pointing, looking back at me, then pointing again, like, "What's wrong with this thing?" So I get the thing to fly, had all the time in the world, a close range straightaway trap-style shot, and missed completely with both barrels.

Earlier, with the same gun, I was hiking up a hillside and a friend yelled, "Quail" as the thing flew past me at full speed. I heard my gun go "bang", I saw the bird drop, and I'm still not sure how I did it.

It's not how FAST, though. It's how little you're able to let your conscious mind get in the way of your unconscious ability to just swing, mount and shoot like the gun is an extension of your body.

[6x6pinz]

I went three shots, nothing like pulling down triple quail with my saiga 410. Fun part is now they allow us to use 5 shots on anything that is not migratory. The extra two shots have been very rough on the bunny population around here.

I like my o/u's and use them when duck hunting if there is fairly open water and the duck are not decoying all that well. Even then I have on occasion used two full choke tubes in my 12ga o/u when the birds don't want to land in the deeks

[NoAlibi]

The theory is if you are walking up birds over a bird-dog, the first shot will be close and the second one further out as the covy scatters.

Upland: Shooting the farthest bird first solves the problem of the choke being to open for the long shot. Plus the pattern will be more open on the closest bird, so there is less chance of finding just a puff of feathers and pieces of bone with some gristle on them.

Waterfowl: After 30 years of duck hunting there is no way I'd give up that 3rd shot for the extra choke.

Caveat: My repeaters have choke tubes on them, so I can compensate for the way the birds are reacting on hunt day.

[MCgunner]

A double with a double trigger set up is the best field gun I know. Instant choke selection for the situation. Ducks can give you all sorts of situations as well as can doves. Often I'll pull the tighter choke first. No switches to manipulate or think about, just go for the trigger you want. Tight choke is set up on the back trigger. Simple, effective. Actually, I've hunted waterfowl for 40 years and I really like shooting a double for the choice in chokes. I do not value a third shot on waterfowl. Hell, I've gone back to shooting geese with a 10 gauge single shot. I'd rather have that one shot of T than 3 3" 12s of BB. I'll get a repeater one of these days. Choke selection isn't important on geese, though, not like when those early teal are buzzing in close, then a high gadwall flies over at 40 yards. I do hunt ducks usually with a pump as I've retired my 12 SxS when steel was mandated and my other SxS is a 20 gauge. I do take the 20 every now and then, though, just for grins. It's an effective teal gun in early teal season, for sure.

Yes, third shot is rarely more than wasted ammo in any situation in the field.

[oneounceload]

Then there are those driven bird shoots, where SK/F are not unheard of for choke combinations

[ArmedBear]

Then there are those driven bird shoots

I wish I could afford an army of pissboys like Madonna.:D

[ArmedBear]

Shooting the farthest bird first solves the problem of the choke being to open for the long shot.

Uh, on fast-moving wild birds I get my instinctive leads by pass shooting. Having to shoot birds according to distance instead of according to swing direction doesn't solve anything; it creates a new and worse problem (missing). That may work on planted birds that are still half-asleep, but on wild quail that don't hold for a point?

[kentucky_smith]

Whatever gives me the best excuses. :D

I've found that if it comes between carrying the O/U with IC/Mod or an auto with IC or mod, the biggest factor is if I can hit the durn things. I've had successes with both and have decided that whatever carries easiest is more important. For loong, up and down walks, the Light 20 comes out. For short flat hunting, it's the 12 gauge O/U.

[huntsman]

I've found that if it comes between carrying the O/U with IC/Mod or an auto with IC or mod,

IMHO the biggest advantage in a 2 choke gun would be IC/full.

[Loyalist Dave]

The waterfowlers and I agree, one choke, three shots, especially here where we have resident geese and limits are sometimes as high as 8 per day.

BUT...,

Upland birds, quail, grouse/chukkar, and even pheasants..., two chokes and two triggers. If you improperly shoulder your single trigger double-gun, or you're shooting your own reloads and get a bad shell..., the lack of recoil doesn't "reset" your single trigger for the second barrel. I've seen it happen several times.

The birds flush close, and with a single, modified choke, you turn them into blood and feathers. With an IC choke, you get the first quail but the second one from the covey is now a bit too far away, or you miss on the first shot and if the bird flushed at a distance your second shot is wasting ammo.

However, there are some hunting scenarios where it's more obvious that you'll want tight-open instead of open-tight, like the dove on a wire I mentioned above.

Well I've never had a problem with dove and two barrels with IC chokes. But if I was using different chokes, I'd simply move my trigger finger back, to the rear trigger and use it first. I also like simple on my sporting guns, and barrel selectors are stuff that will fail (my hunting karma regarding mechinical stuff sucks - just personal preference)

Switching barrels via selector I have found is a huge problem for most hunters, and ArmedBear I think is the exception to the rule. He probably practiced it to where it's well trained second nature..., many hunters are excellent shots, but small muscle memory under stress, they are not so well trained.

The selectors on a great many guns tend to be small, rather smooth, and not dependably moved when wearing gloves (or in some cases bare hands), and trying to switch when the birds flush in an unexpected time or distance is way too much. A selector on the actual trigger gives me the willies in the hands of other hunters (I don't use them), as I expect to touch my trigger when I am going to fire, and not any other time. (I don't like safeties on the trigger guard area where you have to insert your finger either) Sure in a better world, we would all shoot more, and train more in the mechanics of shooting, and be much safer in the field. In the real world, most guys touch their guns a week or two before the season opens, and after that only when actually in the field.

LD

[ArmedBear]

Switching barrels via selector I have found is a huge problem for most hunters, and ArmedBear I think is the exception to the rule. He probably practices it to where it's well trained second nature..., many hunters are excellent shots, but small muscle memory under stress, not so well trained.

Nah. I'm just saying that, in scenarios where it matters, you can see it coming.:)

Most real-world upland situations, starting with the bird on the ground, involve a bird that wants to get the hell out of Dodge, i.e. open-tight.

[MCgunner]

IMHO the biggest advantage in a 2 choke gun would be IC/full.

I thought that, but I've found IC/Mod better on doves. The full is just too tight for most shots unless he's "wing and a prayer" distance. I find I tagged more birds with less shots and that I could take doves out to 40 yards with the mod choke rather than Full. YMMV. Also, waterfowl demand more open chokes since steel is mandated. I actually choke Cyl/IC for teal. Works great with 3" steel shot in 20 gauge over decoys and for those early morning buzzers that you don't see until the last minute.

But, I really have no occasion to shoot full choke in anything anymore. If I got to turkey hunt again, I'd stick the XFull in the 10 gauge, but that's sort of a special situation deal.

[huntsman]

I really have no occasion to shoot full choke in anything anymore.

I had a 16 gauge choked IC/full and it worked well on grouse and pheasant, even though most 2nd shots I took were in the Mod range full penetrated leaves and cover better and it anchored the bird when hit.

The other thing I liked about a tighter choke is I could go with a smaller pellet to get more into the pattern

[NoAlibi]

Having to shoot birds according to distance instead of according to swing direction doesn't solve anything; it creates a new and worse problem (missing).

Shooting the farthest bird doesn't cause you to change swing direction. The way the birds fly causes you to change swing direction. If the birds break in the same direction then it's a simple (If you've practiced it) matter of waiting for the next bird to catch up and swing through again or if the distance was large between birds come back, pick it up and swing through again.

Shooting "report-doubles" from the same "going-away" house (i.e.: station 5, 6 or 7 low house and stations 2, 3, and 4 high house for the most practical scenarios.) will show you that's easy to do once you shoot it a bit.

If the birds break in opposite directions, then it's similar to shooting reverse doubles just to get used to swinging in opposite directions. Not a perfect practice set-up, but a practical one unless you want to invest in traps you can place at your own discretion and have people to man them for you. Try it and let me know what you think.

That may work on planted birds that are still half-asleep, but on wild quail that don't hold for a point?

I've never hunted at a preserve. About 60% of my quail hunting has been over my own dogs on dedicated areas in wildlife management areas. The state povides the habitat, but no planted birds. There is higher than normal pressure there and birds aren't going to wait for you to kick them out of the brush or high grass. About 35% of my quail/dove hunting comes from either my own land in Alabama and other friends' leases. The closest I've come to preserve hunting is at field trials and that accounts for less than 5% of my upland experience. So, my experince doesn't relate to yours.

If this hasn't given you some insight into my hunting techniques, then let's just agree to disagree. I'm not saying they are right for everybody - just right for me based on my 35 years of hunting quail and many others who have found value in what I was taught to do.