Today at the gun store...


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cyclopsshooter
July 2, 2009, 12:01 AM
Today a college kid and his girlfriend came into the store- he asked to see an M&P15- as i was handing it to him he pronounced his expertise with the weapon... :scrutiny: before my hands could be put down on the counter he dumped the magazine on to the floor... To help him save face in the presence of his "squeeze" (she was a hottie by the way!) I said, "don't worry, you are not the first to do this." He handed me back the weapon and they went on to look around the store...
A while later he asked about renting a 9mm and using our indoor range so he could familiarize her with the cartridge. I informed him of the rules (no rapid fire) and got the gear together that they needed- when we arrived at the stall i asked him if he was familiar with the Beretta 92... He said, "oh yeah!"
I left them to the devise and returned to the store front. A few minutes later he came out front complaining that the gun didn't work- he said that the trigger would pull back all the way but the gun wouldn't fire... I thought, "could be, used guns can be a grab bag of reliability"- (even though it was a LEO trade in)
Went back in the range with him where the hottie was waiting only to find that the de-cock safety was engaged :banghead:
After that the girl had a look on her face.. (OMG Im hanging with an idiot)
I left without making fun or being condescending
No sooner did I make it to the store front only to hear 9mm Rapid Fire :cuss:

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juk
July 2, 2009, 04:04 AM
I hate it when that happens. Many guys feel that it is their duty to try to show off their proficiency with firearms in the presence of a female. People in that position get very cranky when you correct them on things too. If I had the authority, I would have kicked several frat house rambos out the door. Usually they are too wrapped up in trying to look cool than obeying some of the most basic safety precautions. I'm not pretending to be a professional on the subject, but I like to think that my argument has some truth to it...I just got done with 6 years of college and have spent many hours on college town ranges.

NELSONs02
July 2, 2009, 04:14 AM
Most College kids these days are semi-liberal d-bags that think they know what there're doing because they play Call of Duty and have shot their dads rifle one time, five years ago.

I would know, I go to school with said d-bags and they SUCK. I'm just a country boy that wants an education.

AcceptableUserName
July 2, 2009, 04:19 AM
imo, maybe don't be so nice. You told the guy once politely...he didn't listen. should've been asked to leave I've always thought it'd be great to work in a gun store...this post made me think otherwise. I'd probably lose my job and be lucky to do it without an assault charge as well :P

GojuBrian
July 2, 2009, 04:22 AM
You just have to laugh at some people. :rolleyes:

ar10
July 2, 2009, 04:59 AM
I see it all the time at our range. The boy friend brings his girlfriend and wants to impress them with with all their knowledge. He hands her his gun, (usually a semi auto), shows her the safety and she proceeds to shoot. Problem is she has a low cut blouse on, the gun is way too big for her to shoot for a first time shooter, and worst of all she raps her thumb right behind and under the slide. I see that combination of errors all the time.
One girl had the top of her thumb peeled off to the bone. And another one, I've seen this a number of times, get the case right down the front of her blouse. That is the most dangerous because she's bouncing around behind the firing line with a still loaded gun in her hand while trying to get a hot case out of her bra.
Whenever I get new shooters, (ones I haven't seen before), I watch them like a hawk, usually I stand right behind them until I'm satisfied they know what they're doing.

tasco 74
July 2, 2009, 05:10 AM
one the things that really pi$$es me off is when some hot hot shot air head askes for a gun from behind the counter and procedes most of the time without even doing a chamber check in sweeping the muzzle across in my direction..... i've had talks before with such idiots..... i try never to point a muzzle at anything i don't want to shoot and others would be well advised to do the same...........................

DO YOU HEAR ME??... DO YOU HEAR MY RUNNIN?? DO YOU HEAR ME RUNNIN DO YOU HEAR ME CALLIN YOU.....................

Shung
July 2, 2009, 08:09 AM
LoL.. poor fellow. What a lonely night ahead of him..

djs764
July 2, 2009, 09:25 AM
one the things that really pi$$es me off is when some hot hot shot air head askes for a gun from behind the counter and procedes most of the time without even doing a chamber check in sweeping the muzzle across in my direction.....

Sorry..But shouldn't the dealer be handing them the gun already checked with the slide locked back ? I've never been into any gun shop where they didn't chamber check it themself and hand it to me locked back. Looks like there's 2 hot shot air heads here :scrutiny: I'd have a talk with him too

larry_minn
July 2, 2009, 10:07 AM
It is amazing how folks will LIE that they know how to operate a gun (or other item) when they don't have a clue... If someone wants to shoot one of my guns. (I used to belong to a private club where it was VERY common to swap guns so you could try something new. (I got to shoot a WIDE variety of guns in a short period of time)
Unless I KNEW the person owned that type of gun I went thru operations with empty gun (on the line) Then had them operate it "with empty gun yet" and finally they got loaded mag/shells.
I have rented guns in a number of states. (i.e. they don't know me/have clue if I am familiar with a gun) Often they just hand it to me. "you know how to shoot this?" as I like to rent something new (to me) I will ask them to go over operation. Then remark "its basicly similar to a (Glock, 1911, S&W,etc)"
Regards rapid fire. While many ranges don't allow it. Often they will let you "get around" if you follow a couple rules. First do slow fire. Be there when range is not busy. After shooting a couple mags clear gun and talk to range staff. (i.e. buying some more ammo, targets, drink of water) Mention you would like to do some double taps. Would that be allowed? I would say 90% of time (closer to 100 if no younger folks on range) I will get respons. "well if you keep them on paper, go ahead" "we just don't want folks shooting up target hangers,floor,lights,etc. I saw you can hit the targer" Then don't abuse the exception. (i.e. rapid fire a full mag all over range.)
I have taken the silouette hanger (some have two seperate clips) and put two B-2 targets on it. Two double taps. After that is time to ask about drawing from holster. :) :)
Also be ok if they tell you single shots later. Often when I check out the guy says "sorry about that but some punk kid came in and heard you, He complained because he got chewed out for shooting rapid fire" (and hitting everything but target)

I do recall being slightly diestracte taking a gal to a range.Thankfully it was a private one (that I was a member who had a key) and we had it to ourselves. I locked the door from inside and put the guns away till I was more relaxed. :) No we didn't "do it" just had some fun. another member could have showed up anytime.

Mainsail
July 2, 2009, 10:17 AM
Anyone who wasn't born with a complete knowledge of firearms should never be able to own or handle them. We should do everything we can to discourage, even ridicule them, if they express any desire to learn. I'm glad everyone in here never had to learn about them. :rolleyes:

Sam1911
July 2, 2009, 10:30 AM
he asked to see an M&P15- as i was handing it to him he pronounced his expertise with the weapon... before my hands could be put down on the counter he dumped the magazine on to the floor

I've probably misunderstood what you wrote, but it sounds like you handed him the rifle with a magazine in it.

Obviously I'm wrong -- no one would do that -- but it SOUNDED like it from what you wrote?

-Sam

larry_minn
July 2, 2009, 11:00 AM
Mainsail. May I suggest you drink your morning cup of coffee before you post. ;) I saw where the person CLAIMED he was a expert with both guns. He was ASKED (lest thats what I understood) I doubt the clerk would have minded in least going over operation of the gun. (I can't recall ever at a gun range them being upset when a person asks "so where is the safety, how do you lock the slide back/remove mags,etc"
Regards Sam 1911. I would say 95% of time I am handed guns in gun shops with mag in gun. The only time I dislike it is when clerk does NOT lock back slide/visually check chamber.
I did the "drop mag on floor" once yrs ago. I forget what kind of gun. I remember saying something like. "whats this" pushed/pulled something, as mag fell. I apoligized and handed gun back/picked up mag. (feeling terrible) While I don't recall what gun it was I do recall the clerk saying something about it being a older gun and that won't hurt it.

Sam1911
July 2, 2009, 11:42 AM
I would say 95% of time I am handed guns in gun shops with mag in gun. The only time I dislike it is when clerk does NOT lock back slide/visually check chamber.

Completely unacceptable gun-handling. (Not terribly surprising in a gun store, but not acceptable, nonetheless.)

The gun is "clear" when you've dropped the mag, locked back the bolt or opened the action, AND visibly checked the chamber.

If it is unacceptable to assume that the chamber is empty, it is equally unacceptable to assume the magazine is empty.

-Sam

AirForceShooter
July 2, 2009, 11:44 AM
You rented this idiot a gun??

You should have hit on the hottie though.

AFS

cyclopsshooter
July 2, 2009, 12:04 PM
i thought she was about to hit on me at the end- she and i had a nice little talk about graduate school... she was just starting and i had just finished :)

for the record, yes i hand customers firearms with mags but always check the chamber! when the customer dropped the mag he was attempting to close the bolt!

The Annoyed Man
July 2, 2009, 12:04 PM
I expect the sales person to clear the weapon before handing it to me - just as I would clear a weapon before handing it to someone else. It's just being polite.

That said, I do own a dozen different pistols in various designs, configurations, and calibers, and I do try and get to the range with some degree of regularity, but I haven't handled or fired a Beretta 92 ever. The closest I ever came to that was a Taurus clone of the Beretta, which I can only assume is identical, and that was something like 15 or more years ago. I'm not sure I could say with any degree of honesty that I am familiar with the operation of a Beretta 92. But the difference between me and the young man in question in the OP is that I don't have my masculinity tied up in whether or not I know everything there is to know about some pistol or other.

Like Dirty Harry said, "A man's gotta know his limitations." I know mine, and I'm perfectly comfortable with that. But then, that may be one of the key differences between being 50 something, and being 20 something... ...that, and I have to grunt when I get out of my armchair and my right knee hurts all the time. OTH, I've already married my hottie, and I wouldn't trade her for the world. She means everything to me. Fortunately, she doesn't give a rip one way or the other about my guns. She has her own, which she shoots quite well, thank you very much. The pressure to perform is off.
:D

B yond
July 2, 2009, 01:05 PM
I would know, I go to school with said d-bags and they SUCK. I'm just a country boy that wants an education.

My college degree = huge waste of time and money. Granted, I had fun in college, but I have a good career now that my degree didn't help me get, I'll be paying back student loans for years, and to top it all off I could'a bought a bunch of nice guns with the money instead! All college was really good for was partying and getting laid.

Birdmang
July 2, 2009, 01:12 PM
Most College kids these days are semi-liberal d-bags that think they know what there're doing because they play Call of Duty and have shot their dads rifle one time, five years ago.

I would know, I go to school with said d-bags and they SUCK. I'm just a country boy that wants an education.

I can agree with you completely, thankfully I am not like them though! I attend and am about finished with a 4 year degree from a state funded university in northern Illinois. I am a political science major, so I get to see the most outspoken liberal students on the whole campus. Most of them are just ignorant because they don't know the facts. I find it hard to believe that some students can be so negative towards other ideas without even knowing the facts!

Rockwell1
July 2, 2009, 01:24 PM
I would say 95% of time I am handed guns in gun shops with mag in gun. The only time I dislike it is when clerk does NOT lock back slide/visually check chamber.

All the gunstores I frequent keep the magazine in a the case and have the guns on display with no magazine

waterhouse
July 2, 2009, 01:24 PM
Completely unacceptable gun-handling. (Not terribly surprising in a gun store, but not acceptable, nonetheless.)

The gun is "clear" when you've dropped the mag, locked back the bolt or opened the action, AND visibly checked the chamber.

If it is unacceptable to assume that the chamber is empty, it is equally unacceptable to assume the magazine is empty.

Why can't you lock the slide back and look at both the chamber and the empty magazine at the same time? There is no assumption that the magazine it empty, you can see the top of it.

trex1310
July 2, 2009, 01:25 PM
I was at a local outdoor range early one Sunday morning and out walks this guy that was about 6' 4" tall and 120 lbs., wearing two shoulder holsters containing two S&W 8 3/8" 629 .44 magnums. He proceeds to put up his 25 yd. target, comes back and sits down on a bench. He then takes out both guns, cocks them single action and fires. The recoil causes the hammer from one gun to hit him in the forehead and knocks him off the
bench. As he is falling he pulls the triggers on both guns double action. One round went
through the tin roof and the other round blew a huge hunk of wood out of the table where I was sitting. I gave him the what for, loaded up my stuff and left the range to
change my shorts. Nothing quite like almost being shot by a .44 magnum on a peaceful
Sunday morning.

NC-Mike
July 2, 2009, 01:29 PM
This hit me a while back but an awful lot of "college age kids" are combat vets with three or four tours behind them.

Its given me a new respect and a different way of looking at young men and women in our country.

offthepaper
July 2, 2009, 01:43 PM
I just got done with 6 years of college

English major? :neener:

Birdmang
July 2, 2009, 01:45 PM
Hopefully with a masters!

Babarsac
July 2, 2009, 01:47 PM
I've taken a bunch of my friends, co-workers, and my girlfriend to the range at different points in time. We're all in the college/recent grad age (I'm 27) but they all were very serious once on the firing line. They all enjoyed the experience, learned quite a bit, and a few are seriously considering firearm ownership. Not bad for a bunch of gun-toting liberals :evil:

I guess you just have to take em' as they come. And I've seen quite a range of them at the gun store.

bababooey32
July 2, 2009, 02:07 PM
NC Mike +1
This hit me a while back but an awful lot of "college age kids" are combat vets with three or four tours behind them.

Its given me a new respect and a different way of looking at young men and women in our country.

http://www.plowsite.com/images/smilies/smilie_flagge13.gif

jordan1948
July 2, 2009, 02:12 PM
Completely unacceptable gun-handling. (Not terribly surprising in a gun store, but not acceptable, nonetheless.)

The gun is "clear" when you've dropped the mag, locked back the bolt or opened the action, AND visibly checked the chamber.

If it is unacceptable to assume that the chamber is empty, it is equally unacceptable to assume the magazine is empty.

So do you expect them to take the magazine tube off of a pump action shotgun? It technically has a magazine.

Sav .250
July 2, 2009, 02:29 PM
They are the leaders of tomorrow............. :D

Eightball
July 2, 2009, 02:31 PM
In my store, we don't have a range attached. All guns are locked up securely, and no rounds of ammo for which an "unlocked/looked at" is chambered even hit the counter anywhere near it while the firearm is out. And of course, even with the myriad of other precautions, we still check/show the customer that a firearm is completely unloaded before letting them see it.

I can't imagine a salesman not being even MORE careful at a gun store with a firing range attached, where there's even a remote chance that anything in the store/behind the counter has even had a live round near it.

Lonestar49
July 2, 2009, 02:47 PM
...

Maybe you should qualify suspected know-it-all duffas types by making sure they know the gun to be rented. Simply rack the slide (then locked back) drop the empty mag, then hand him a 9mm snap-cap, and let him load the mag with it, then insert the mag, then chamber it, then decock back into DA mode, then activate the safey ON, then unload the weapon and verify..

Then you would have "verified" what you really knew (rightfully suspected) but, at that point, should have told him "he needs a lesson or 4, before he can rent. Or at least start off with: name the 4 rules of gun safety.." and take it from there, would have at least given you a start point, as too, should I, or shouldn't I, let this guy rent and shoot.

After all, it's your duty to protect the_babe, (the innocents) from any negligent mishaps issuing a weapon, live ammo, and unleashing that combo, loose, without supervision, into the firing range, if he fails the 4 safety rules or demonstration, type gun, test.. NO..?

I mean, he failed every test, from the get-go, and "continued" with rapid firing, and a no-clue, no-care of rules, etc., just this side of total, out of control, un-schooled/trained actions..

OMMV,


Ls

MagnumDweeb
July 2, 2009, 02:56 PM
It doesn't get much better when they get into lawschool. I am an NRA certified pistol instructor(not doing the rifle one till December) and go to law school. I wear a T-shirt I had made up with a decal instructors can use without worry of copyright infringement. So I'm waving my 2nd Amendment flag out there whenever I'm on campus half the time.

So it's a known thing I do a couple classes that either of which can be used to qualify for a requirement for a person to get their CWP, because in the state of Florida there is no such as a true Concealed Weapons Permit Course(it's either an NRA guy giving you bad legal advice or a 'K' license instructor giving you bad legal advice, and no I don't give any legal advice and I keep the number on hand for the Orange County and Seminole County Bars). So I've had the usual 'I'm a great shot with this .45", or "I can out-shoot anyone with my Glock 19" usual actors at my school wanting to take my class. I even had one guy try and tell me that the Taurus PT-92 was a 1911(uh no, and he got ticked when I tried to explain that Taurus got a right to manufacture the Beretta style handgun from Beretta for production in South America). And it's always the same type of guys from either 'Chicago'(actually Illinois if you pay attention), New York City(one of my Classmates is from New York state proper, a good guy, humble, and a hell of a shot with a bolt-action rifle out two hundred yards), and Boston.

I always laugh at them with great zeal when they point at the silhouette they had a twenty feet and are proud of themselves for a grouping you couldn't cover with a 6" pie plate. And doing the shooting in one shot a second increments.

And I love getting lectured about my .44 Magnums, .357 Magnums, and .45 ACP, and getting incorrectly lectured no less. Or getting told about Black Talons, how they have a bunch of them, how they've killed deer with them.

Ron White said it best----"You can't fix stupid." Now I'll admit I once claimed to know everything and be the great source of all knowledge but I've always been willing to learn and refine myself.

But I am greatful for those classmates who taken the class with a ounce humility, interest in learning, and greatfulness. I have gotten to 'flunk' a couple of those before mentioned geniuses for repetitive safety mistakes(that I warn them against each time) and they get awful mad about, granted I wait till we are outside the range to tell them and I hand them a full refund(not the best way to do business but the look on their faces make it worth it).

daorhgih
July 2, 2009, 03:01 PM
That's what Business Cards are for! Don't you remember your Horatio Cain lessons?? "Hands akimbo, show badge and weapon, leave business card, always say Ma'am." (If she looks REALLY hot, let it slip out that you are a single-parent.)

Sam1911
July 2, 2009, 04:34 PM
So do you expect them to take the magazine tube off of a pump action shotgun? It technically has a magazine.

Wow. GREAT point. :rolleyes:

Obviously not. But do you really feel that, if a magazine is made to be removable with the push of a button, REAAAAAALY simple-like, it makes ANY sense whatsoever to leave the mag in when you are "clearing" the gun?

I suppose we have to be even more specific about it then so none of us gets confused:

Steps to clearing a weapon:
1) Check to see if the gun has a cartridge holding magazine. If not, proceed to step 4.
2) If so, check to see if the gun's magazine is removable. If not, proceed to step 4.
3) IF SO, REMOVE THE MAGAZINE.
4) Open the action or lock back the bolt/slide.
5) Visually and manually inspect the chamber.

How's that? Can we all follow it NOW?

Sheesh. :rolleyes:


:p

:D

-Sam

Shadow 7D
July 2, 2009, 07:34 PM
We had a "punk" straight out of "comtin", as the drill sergeant said, he was really from south side Chicago, that thought he was all that. He handed his M-16 to the DS, DS asked him if it was clear, he said "of course", DS pulled the trigger then ejected the dummy round. Lucky for him it was our turn dry firing, all he had to say was let me check, He got to practice that for a couple of hours with his exercises.

My two points, you run into them in all lines of work, and it's not just guns, they are "Great!!!!" at everything.

It's not clear until you have cleared it and checked, shown to the person your handing it to, and they have checked. Even the the 4 rules apply.

Gamera
July 2, 2009, 07:46 PM
I bet back in the stone age, the cavemen would go to spear-rental shops and try to impress their girlfriends; all the while holding the spear backwards.

Wirtbowhunter
July 2, 2009, 08:19 PM
she was a hottie by the way!

I call bs on this one until I see some pics

cyclopsshooter
July 2, 2009, 08:31 PM
beauty is in the eye of the beholder and she was an ebony goddess with good junk in the trunk :) yum

juk
July 3, 2009, 02:11 AM
6 years...2 on a full-ride music scholarship to local CC. The other 4 years were spent at Auburn majoring in Aviation Management with minor in logistics/supply chain management. I didn't get either. It was work and live or go to class and not pay the bills. Right now, I am trying to get into a local tech school that specializes in Aviation technology, manufacturing, and maintenance. I am praying that I can make it though the 8 months and get a decent job making aircraft components in a nearby city.

Back on topic. My favorite indoor range is very professional. The range staff is very particular. They brief EVERY customer on the range rules no matter how many times they have been. The rules are strictly enforced and there is always at least one RO on duty. They offer a very reassuring peace of mind through professionalism.

Kind of Blued
July 3, 2009, 05:54 AM
I'd be terrible at your job.

*door opens*

"You! How long have you known that girl?"

"A couple weeks."

"Leave. Now."

The Lone Haranguer
July 3, 2009, 07:29 AM
Today a college kid and his girlfriend came into the store- he asked to see an M&P15- as i was handing it to him he pronounced his expertise with the weapon... before my hands could be put down on the counter he dumped the magazine on to the floor...
It is often remarked by firearms instructors that women are easier to teach than men, because they don't think they already know it all. Here is a perfect example. :)

chuckusaret
July 3, 2009, 11:22 AM
This hit me a while back but an awful lot of "college age kids" are combat vets with three or four tours behind them.

Very true. When I retired I went back to college and soon learned that I was older than most of the teachers/professors and most of the students were younger than my kids. Did college as a business major help me in civilian life? No, I was a non degreed engineer for the 26 years after my retirement from the service.

Back on subject. I try not to use the local indoor ranges after the normal work day or on weekends. I shoot in the morning or early afternoon with mostly LEO's and retired military/LEO's, never a problem.

NC-Mike
July 3, 2009, 11:59 AM
Back on subject. I try not to use the local indoor ranges after the normal work day or on weekends. I shoot in the morning or early afternoon with mostly LEO's and retired military/LEO's, never a problem.

I'm very, very glad I belong to a private range. There are way too many yaa-hoos out on the public ranges. Off hours are the best solution if you are going to use the public ranges.

The last time I saw the crowd that was at one of the local public ranges, I realized I would not willing to risk my life and join that firing line. :uhoh:

PT1911
July 3, 2009, 12:05 PM
last I checked you can visualize the chamber and mag being empty by pulling the charging handle to the rear... if you screw that up... you really dont need to be handling the gun in the first place...

CountGlockula
July 3, 2009, 10:51 PM
I left them to the devise and returned to the store front. A few minutes later he came out front complaining that the gun didn't work- he said that the trigger would pull back all the way but the gun wouldn't fire... I thought, "could be, used guns can be a grab bag of reliability"- (even though it was a LEO trade in)

So basically, an unknowledgeable shooter got a gun and entered the firing line. My range requires new shooters to pass a gun handling test...basically to safely load and unload a firearm by using snap caps.

If the patrons is fumbling around with the weapon or points the gun at the range officer(s) :eek:, then they are recommended to take a class or bring someone who has experience. There usually isn't a certified NRA instructor there everyday and the range guys aren't allowed to teach for liability.

cyclopsshooter
July 3, 2009, 11:01 PM
thats a good idea having new users (to us) pass a safety and function test- ill talk to the boss about it

CountGlockula
July 3, 2009, 11:12 PM
thats a good idea having new users (to us) pass a safety and function test- ill talk to the boss about it

Basically this is what my range does:

Newbies coming in...

Range Guy (RG): What can I do for you?
Newb (N): I want to shoot with my friend.
RG: Do you have any handgun/shooting experience?
N: Yeah.
RG: OK, for first timers here we would like to give you a gun safety handling test to demonstrate proficiency on shooting experience. Can I test you?
N: OK.
Range guy requests to hold onto Newb's driver's license for liability...or just incase the newb runs out with the firearm. Range guy puts in front of him an empty magazine from a Glock and two snap caps.

RG: Can you please show me how to load the cartridges into the mag?

Newb MUST correctly put them in...most actually put the two cartridges in backwards!:eek: That's an INSTANT fail, since they can't pay attention to loading. If they pass then...

RG: Great. Now that you've correctly loaded the magazine, I am now going to put the mag into the gun and load one in the chamber. Now I'll put the gun on the counter and please show me how to SAFELY unload the weapon.
If Newb picks up the gun and points it at you. FAIL. If Newb asks, "Is the safety on?" FAIL. If the Newb spends more than 5-10 minutes figuring it out. FAIL. If the Newb pulls the slide back twice to remove the cartriges. FAIL. You know what I'm getting at.

That's my range's policy. This type of process gives the opportunity for newbs to sign up for the Basic Handgun Class or prevent any unsafe handling inside the range.

Good luck!

cyclopsshooter
July 3, 2009, 11:15 PM
thats a big help! thanks! for the record i did require his drivers license!

CountGlockula
July 3, 2009, 11:17 PM
Anytime buddy. Good luck. I've been at both ends of the counter and having range officers stop any unsafe gun handling is a plus. Most range guys deserve a beer of what they go through. But at the same time, most patrons/customers at the range refuse to be humble and are set at their ways.

stickhauler
July 4, 2009, 12:30 AM
I don't believe anyone had implied they knew out of the womb everything about guns, the complaint I saw was people who had no knowledge at all about them trying to act like experts to impress their girlfriends. I've seen way too many people act exactly like that, and if you try to help them out they get all cranky. There's no shame in admitting an ignorance of how something works, ignorance is simply lack of education in a subject. Stupidity, acting like you know it all, can't be cured.

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