Fox showing Columbine shooters on tape (merged thread)


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Lennyjoe
October 22, 2003, 01:16 PM
Just watched Fox showing the 2 individuals shooting guns on tape which was made around 6 weeks before the tragedy.

Anyone else catch it?

Quite a few anti-gun comments made by reporters and what they call experts.

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MPFreeman
October 22, 2003, 01:20 PM
Watching it now.

Which is worse? The marksmanship, attitude, stupidity or skill of these boys?

Just heard the guest say that you don't need Tech9's and high powered rifles to go target shooting. LOL. Well if you don't want to hit anything, take the DCTech9 I guess.

spacemanspiff
October 22, 2003, 01:24 PM
whats worse? their taste in firearms.

Lennyjoe
October 22, 2003, 01:25 PM
All of the above

Unsafe for sure.

They just said they were tracking them for almost a year on the internet. Comments they made, threats and all and what did our law enforcement people do about it? Nothing.

Invisible Swordsman
October 22, 2003, 01:36 PM
I was just watching this at lunch. The sound wasn't on so I couldn't tell what kind of slant they were putting on it. They ran only this tape, repeatedly for at least the half hour I was there. Must not be anything else happening in the world today, so we can watch this to the exclusion of anything else :confused: .

Agree with the others, lots of bad handling, four rules violations etc. I'm sure the antis are going to have a field day with this.

ny32182
October 22, 2003, 02:10 PM
Funny how it comes out right before the election cycle/AWB renewal comes up.:rolleyes:

veloce851
October 22, 2003, 02:12 PM
I found the spin on this story just sickoning...
They are refering to this tape as one of the most chilling pieces of footage ever shown on Fox. (appherently thousands of dead kurds isn't considered as chilling of footage)
Keep in mind on the surface you are just watching a group of young people all smiling and laughing while shooting off various fun firearms. (remember they hadn't commited an act of violence up to that point of these tapes)
And then they comment saying anyone witnessing this should now know what is going to happen next.
This is just building a case against the notion that one should not enjoy the sporting aspects of firearms.. that even their lighthearted discharge is a prelude to an evil act of violence.

Yes the kids are acting like goofy HS boys.. and there should have been an adult there to keep things in proper context and safety... but I saw a potencially normal and average group of people enjoying their firearms on private property.
This footage was not at a public range.
The fact that a couple of them were making comments about "right up its a##" or stating that you made a head shot is not CHILLING and DISTURBING.. its just immaturity showing through a boys masculinity.

I'm sorry but I did not see anything there that would indicate the acts to come.

That looked like typical HS mountain family boys playing to me.

Think back.. we all horsed around like that.. no matter what we were doing.
The only difference would have been dad or an uncle slapping you upside the head when you started crossing the line between having goofy fun and being unsafe.

JMHO

lawcox
October 22, 2003, 02:40 PM
I saw it on the net before I saw it on TV.
This is going to be one bad ride.
I couldn't ID all of the weapons, but I think the one that the girl was firing looked to be a Ruger Mini 14 with a folding synthetic stock and scope.
Just wait, some liberal is now going to propose legislation to protect endangered bowling pins.

JimJD
October 22, 2003, 03:24 PM
Just watched it, some bad stuff going on in that video.
Did you see the one ponting the LOADED sawed-off at his stomach while he was closing the action?
Too bad it did'nt go off...
From the footage I saw, It appeared they were using a Mini-14 or 30 with collapsable stock, possibly a Ruger P series pistol, and some type of sawed-off double barrel side-by-side shotgun, it looked like one had a sawed-off pump too.

I'm sorry but I did not see anything there that would indicate the acts to come

Did you get to hear the audio track? They said some pretty scary stuff...:(
Just the fact they had an illegally modified weapon was wrong.
Did'nt they break the law for owning these weapons at their age to begin with?

Jack T.
October 22, 2003, 03:36 PM
Funny how it comes out right before the election cycle/AWB renewal comes up.

Ding ding ding ding ding! Johhny, tell him what he's won!

Pure coincidence, I am sure :barf: :fire:

Don Gwinn
October 22, 2003, 03:38 PM
Now, come on, folks. Let's be reasonable about this. (I know the word "reasonable" is oft misused, but give me a chance here.)

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with being "sickened" by such a video. I haven't seen it, so obviously I didn't hear the commentary, and so I'll limit myself to commenting only on the issues that have been raised here.

It doesn't matter if you think that the tape looks like kids goofing around. It doesn't matter if none of the practices on the tape, outside the context of the Columbine shootings, are objectionable in and of themselves. When you're watching the perpetrators of one of the worst massacres of children in recent history practicing their marksmanship while making comments about killing people, that SHOULD be chilling. It's not the practices, necessarily, it's the PEOPLE in that video.

If we had video of one of the Sept. 11th hijackers practicing knife techniques at a Florida martial-arts school, would you find it "sickening" to watch? If so, does that mean you have an irrational fear of knives, or that what those men did sickens you?

ballistic gelatin
October 22, 2003, 03:53 PM
Video of Columbing shooters having some "target practice".
Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/)

Leatherneck
October 22, 2003, 04:16 PM
Well said, Don.

TC
TFL Survivor

Zundfolge
October 22, 2003, 04:18 PM
I can't seem to ever get those Fox News videos to work ... anyone have a direct link to the video file?

gun-fucious
October 22, 2003, 05:31 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/video2/player.html?4429&Breaking_News&Video%20of%20Columbine%20Killers%20Training&ram-56

its an inline real video file...

feedthehogs
October 22, 2003, 05:39 PM
If you want a copy of the tape, the Jefferson County Sheriff's office is selling them at $20.00 a copy.

The reason?

"So it won't ever happen again"

If that were the case then there should have been no shootings after all the video from 9/11.

Right?

All criminals should have laid down their guns and made peace with the world.
(picture in mind; daisy covered sun drenched fields with birds singing, butterflys flying and bees buzzing)


If this is the intelligence level we have in law enforcement, what chance do we ever have of preventing something like this again?

NONE!!!!!

Its a social issue, not a gun issue you freakin morons at the JC Sheriffs office.

VPC strikes again. Underhanded as usual.

Travis McGee
October 22, 2003, 05:44 PM
Prediction: this tape will be sliced and put into anti-gun VPC TV propaganda commercials. They will be on TV wall to wall as the AWB comes up to sunset time next year. Also, Bowling and The Runaway Jury will be on TV every day of that final month. We are going to be barraged with anti "assault weapon" propaganda on TV.

Matt

Langenator
October 22, 2003, 05:52 PM
Now, my memory of the whole Columbine incident isn't as good as it should be (I have an excuse-I was in Tirana as part of TF Hawk at the time). IIRC, Dylan and Klebold used at least one shotgun, I think two (I'm guessing that would be the pump and the double in the vid) and at least one pistol.

Did they use anything that is actually covered by the AWB (ie, that Mini-14 with 40 rnd mag and folding stock)?

moa
October 22, 2003, 06:09 PM
It seems the so called experts seem to forget that the Columbine massacre plan depended primarily on explosive devices, perhaps as many as 70. Apparently the intent of the firearms was to protect the mission, and not necessarily to gun people down.

And example was propane gas tanks were to be exploded in the cafeteria at lunch time. Harris and Klebold even booby trapped their car.

One of the things that led the authorities to think that Harris and Klebold had accomplices is how were they able to get so many explosive devices into the school undected.

Harris and Klebold wanted to kill a lot more than the dozen or so they killed.

ballistic gelatin
October 22, 2003, 06:14 PM
There is a second video on Fox that interviews the "best friend" of one of the killers.

He says he just can't see why anyone would target practice with a tech-9 or a high power rifle. That's just ridiculous.

What a dork.

Also his "best friend" status went bye bye when he removed himself from the relationship because his "best friend" started hanging out with another kid earlier in the year.

I repeat, what a dork.

AUTIGER04
October 22, 2003, 06:31 PM
Bad shooting skills indeed. Ruger Mini 14 jammed alot? I thought they used HI POINT carbines and Tec 9s in the school shootings? News Media:scrutiny:

Black Snowman
October 22, 2003, 06:41 PM
The reporting on the events by the TV media was horrible. I never got any straight facts about it except for about 30 seconds of video footage. 2 kids were shooting other kids at a school in Colorado. The rest was all smoke, mirrors, and hearsay.

Can't comment on the written media because I gave up on them as long ago as well. I just happen to see the "news" footage while channel hopping.

anapex
October 22, 2003, 07:28 PM
My ears must be bad (Shooting too much ;) ) because aside from the occassional swear word thrown out I really didn't hear anything shocking. But like others said terrible terrible handling and following of the rules.

I'll try watching it again and see what I can pick up on a second time through.

KT-P32
October 22, 2003, 07:57 PM
Looked like kids out having fun to me.:rolleyes: Who here has opened up on a tree?:rolleyes:

ceetee
October 22, 2003, 09:26 PM
What it shows me is a bunch of kids with not enough parental input. When I was growing up, I used to hunt with Dad, who hunted with Grandpa, and so on. I know how to handle guns safely, how to care for them properly, and above all else, the potential they represented when handled unsafely (like when my oldest brother shot the piano)...

If these kids' parents had spent more time with the kids, shooting, playing, talking... the whole atrocity would've never happened!

Red Dane
October 22, 2003, 09:44 PM
Pure vomit, I'm watching Paula Zahn discuss the video right now and she is asking some tool whether the video raises "red flags" or not.

Where do they find these people? caves?



:barf:

Hkmp5sd
October 22, 2003, 09:48 PM
Did they use anything that is actually covered by the AWB (ie, that Mini-14 with 40 rnd mag and folding stock)?

They used a pump shotgun, double barrel shotgun, rifle and Tec-9M. Only the Tec-9M is covered in the AW ban.

Hkmp5sd
October 22, 2003, 09:50 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=560038

Here they are......

Bartholomew Roberts
October 23, 2003, 11:11 AM
Saw it on ABC this morning and they basically equated target practice with practicing for murder. Heavily slanted anti-gun message...

I'm also quite sure it was no accident that the video was released right now almost 4 years after the fact. The Jefferson Co Sheriff made that decision - anyone know what his stance on RKBA is? I bet it isn't friendly.

Putting aside the blatant safety violations, that tape could have easily been me or anybody I knew growing up as we generally shot in similar circumstances and couldn't afford anything better than the crap that they were shooting there. Guess I better go see how many of them are murderers now :rolleyes:

I know at least two of them are cops and one is a fed.... :scrutiny:

Ed Straker
October 23, 2003, 11:43 AM
I think I heard the word 'chilling' about 20 times yesterday.

boogalou
October 23, 2003, 12:52 PM
I watched it this morning on MSNBC and the reporter said it was difficult to watch....

Perhaps if the parents of these boys would have been watching them more closely Columbine wouldn't have happened.

Its funny how we as parents can stand by and observe when our children watch violent TV, play gory video games and let them see movies depicting actors killing each other with guns, but when reality slaps them on the ???, suddenly its all too real and disturbing. Lets face it, these boys were morally sick, and until our society comes to grips with that, and changes our value system, this kind of violent behavior will continue.

I did some stupid things with guns when I was a teenager, but it never occurred to me to point a gun at someone I didn't like. Not because it was against the law, but because I knew it was wrong to take a life.

I think we should all watch, and keep watching.......

semf
October 23, 2003, 01:09 PM
Reports I read said that a girlfriend and an adult bught the guns for them. Were they ever prosecuted.
Another report said that when police entered one of the boys room an illegal shotgun could be readily seen sticking out from under the mattress.
Were the parents ever prosecuted.
In Fla there is a law that makes it the owner of a gun responsible if a child gets it. The law is never prosecuted, under the guise that they have suffered enough.

Futo Inu
October 23, 2003, 01:54 PM
It's chilling WITH hindsight, knowing what they later did with weapons.

It's not chilling without this knowledge - it's kids being kids.

The much more important question than the journalist idjits is what a couple of peeps brought up... Someone tell me this: Why in the name of all that is holy could this have NOT been release 4 years ago, or 3.5, or 3, or 2.5, or 2, or 1.5, or 1 year ago??? There was talk about the tapes being held for investigative purposes (as to which adults gave them access to the guns), but since two people were already convicted a long time ago for that, those investigations are well over. Plus, the talking heads said that IN FACT, these particular tapes were NOT part of any investigation. So *** - if they were'nt, then why just NOW released, when the anti-gunners are scratching for anything to try to renew the homeland defense rifle ban. Have they offered ANY plausible explanation for why these could not have been released a looooog time ago? Anyone heard? :fire:

Bartholomew Roberts
October 23, 2003, 02:00 PM
The man who bought the TEC-9 for them (son of a gun control activist and HCI member no less) was convicted and sentenced to jail.

The 18yr. old girl who bought one of the longguns had not technically broken any laws and was not prosecuted. She also went on the stump to push for more gun control (closing the gun show loophole) shortly after that. Coincidence?

standingbear
October 23, 2003, 08:34 PM
its all about getting the public to react towards more gun control.its about the awb.its about more restrictions.why else would they make it available for purchase for the public and why now...and why 20 bucks?:barf:

ballistic gelatin
October 24, 2003, 10:49 AM
Tape for sale. Raising money for their fight. It's time to donate to the NRA.

taoshooter
October 24, 2003, 11:04 AM
Don Gwinn : Ditto

Tape for sale? Who would want to buy that tape? Where DO the proceeds go - anyone know?

griz
October 24, 2003, 11:26 AM
Don said:
"If we had video of one of the Sept. 11th hijackers practicing knife techniques at a Florida martial-arts school, would you find it "sickening" to watch? If so, does that mean you have an irrational fear of knives, or that what those men did sickens you?"

The difference is there isn't a political Box Cutter Bill that is soon to come up.

Hkmp5sd
October 24, 2003, 01:13 PM
I don't know if they were released or leaked, but there have been full color crime scene photos of the Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold after they blew what brains they did have onto the carpet floating around for a while now. I've got them around here somewhere.

I think they should release these and the security camera tapes instead. All the public ever sees are the smiling snapshots of them from their yearbooks and the new video of them smiling and joking while playing with guns. This causes everyone to focus their anger at the guns instead of the murderers, especially since there was no trial. Outside the local area, the only thing people talk about are the number students that were killed and the guns. The killers are in the ground and the only thing left to focus on are the guns.

Let the public, especially other high schools kids, see what these guys did and what their self imposed fate became. Big difference between the made-for-TV movies they are used to and real life.

geegee
October 24, 2003, 01:48 PM
There is a second video on Fox that interviews the "best friend" of one of the killers
The most interesting part of this kid's comments was that the local police were given more than one "heads-up" about these two, yet did nothing to follow up. It's ridiculous to say that a home movie of some high school kids shooting up a tree is "chilling" and should somehow give everyone around them a clue as to what was to come, yet to then find out that people actually went to the police to tell the cops what these two pinheads were thinking, and then discover that the police took no action with what they were told. That to me is the chilling part.

Here's a link to the photo of them at the end. Moderators: feel free to edit.

http://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Death/Columbine.html geegee

Demon440
October 24, 2003, 04:01 PM
what happend with the woman on the tape? The two other men are in jail but what about the woman? Why is it that CNN said nothing about her and never even showed her but fox showed her and said very little. Kinda weird.

James Castilla
October 24, 2003, 06:14 PM
and they basically equated target practice with practicing for murder. Heavily slanted anti-gun message...

...old quotes spring to mind... :rolleyes: :uhoh: :(

What year did all this happen... 1997? 4 years ago? And now the Sherrifs selling it (for a little bonus for him, no doubt). Its like me saying "Oh, I have a tape of TWA Flight 900, anybody wanna buy it so that planes wont crash ever again?" :mad:

Also, this is a fine example of people asking idiots for answers-- either the media asking only certain people what they think, or if its Klebold asking Harris about life (or vice versa) and one of them says "lets kill ourselves, and take everyone else down with us."

There are alot of dumb people out there, and what makes it worse is that they think they know everything.

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