[PA Freedom]

Id like to use my AR-15 (5.56, 20" heavy barrel, 1/9" twist) for CMP. Does anyone have any good handloads to share? All targets will be @ 100 yards. Thanks.

[P-32]

For 100 yards I would try 25 grs. of Win 748 with a Rem 7 1/2 primer over a 53 gr. SMK. You may also use a CCI small rifle or CCI Bench Rest in place of the Rem 7 1/2 Bench Rest primer. I don't recommend the use any Federal or Winny primer for service rifle.

Another load I've had very good luck with at 100 yards is 24.8 grs of Reloder 15 with a Rem 7 1/2 primer over a 69 gr. SMK. This load shoots great at 200 yards too. This load should be OK in your 9 to 1 twist.

I would use these loads with Win or Lake City brass. The L/C would need the crimp removed of course. Uniforming primer pockets helps a lot and is about the best money spent for making smaller groups on the L/C anyways. I can not recommend Fed brass, stay away from it.

These loads are safe in my 6 1/2 to 1 twist and 7 to 1 twist AR's.

[673rem]

This is a tack driver in my Remington R-15, "18 barrel ( really a Bushmaster as they own Remington ) 68gr Hornady BTHP over 24.2 grs. of Varget. Federal GM205SM primers in new Remingtom brass. COAL at 2.265. Shot under MOA at 100 yards from the bench. Standard trigger ( could be better but it will suffice ). Good luck and keep flinging 'em downrange!

[Tim the student]

IMO, you will have to find out what your gun likes. If there were a perfect recipe, we would all load it, and the ammo manufacturers would all make it. Different guns will shoot the same bullet differently.


Do you have a certain bullet/powder combo you want to use so you don't have to buy a pound of powder to find out you can't get it to group well?

[rg1]

here's some good reading if you haven't already seen them:
http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html
http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammunition/st223_120606/index1.html

Note that the shootingtimes article is 3 pages.

[PA Freedom]

Thanks for all the answers. Tim, you're correct about finding out what shoots well in my particular rifle. As far as powder goes, I probally have most of the usual suspects ( RL 15, Varget, W748, 4895, BLC-2, etc, etc, etc) on hand as well as various types of small rifle primers. As far as bullets go, many kinds of SMK's are suprisingly plentiful in my area.

[NuJudge]

I've tried 26.5gr 748, a 52gr match bullet, CCI regular primer, and a LC or WRA case in a lot of .223 ARs, and it's worked really well in every one. One of them was a 20" 1:9 Oly barrel which shoots nothing else well.

CDD

[P-32]

IMO, you will have to find out what your gun likes. If there were a perfect recipe, we would all load it, and the ammo manufacturers would all make it. Different guns will shoot the same bullet differently

Tim I would agree with you for the most part. But when it comes to High Power many rifles shoot the same loads well. Might have to tweak a little but it's going to be close. I know PA's AR will not shoot my across the course loads as his twist won't shoot the bullets. Both my AR's like the same loads and use the same number of clicks both up and down and right and left depending on conditions. My AR's don't use the same manf. barrel, ones a Nor Pac with a 6 1/2 twist, the other is a Kreiger with a 7 to 1 twist. I would also say if no body could reload, Black Hills match would fill the bill at an expence for the Ar's. I've never seen a 308 rifle that did not like Federal Gold match. If your 308 service rifle won't shoot 41.5 grs of IMR 4895 with a 168 gr SMK something is wrong with your rifle.

[ForneyRider]

673Rem,
What magazine are you using for 2.265 OAL? or is it single fed?

[kelbro]

I've tried 26.5gr 748, a 52gr match bullet, CCI regular primer, and a LC or WRA case in a lot of .223 ARs, and it's worked really well in every one.

Same here.

[bfoosh006]

Some very good/helpful info here...http://www.radomski.us/njhp/cart_tech.htm

[ForneyRider]

I just made a 10shot group at .78in with 55gr Sierra Blitz King, 21.5gr R10x powder, Fed 205 primer, and R-P brass. This was a cold barrel group. 1/9 twist 20in DPMS Panther bull.
I stepped up in .5gr increments to 23.5gr (24gr max). And the 21.5gr load was best.

Any 52,53 match bullet or plastic tip bullet in 50gr or 55gr should work well at 100 yards with 1/9 twist. After lots of trying, I could not get 69gr SMK and Hornady 75gr BTHP this tight.

I didn't chrony any of these due to the weather, but they should be around 3000fps.

[ForneyRider]

http://www.odcmp.com/Competitions/Rulebook.pdf

I think the 100 yard competition is M1 Carbine only?

[Bart B.]

I had to jump into this thread. The reason is I was the first person to shoot across the CMP/DCM National Match Course with the M16. Happened at the Nationals in 1971 when I was on the USN Rifle Team. We developed loads at the US Naval Station at Annapolis, MD while in training and practice for the Interservice and National Matches.

Sierra Bullets had shipped us several hundred 52-gr. HPBT match bullets and suggested we try different charge weights of IMR4895 or IMR2198 and forget about any ball powder. Their tests in rail guns showed any ball powder didn't shoot well for accuracy unless pressures were way too hot for safety. They shoot 10-shot groups every so often during production runs to monitor quality; sometimes 5 to 10 groups. Extruded powders were always more accurate. So we tried both and settled on IMR4895 (I now forget the charge weight) with cases and 7.5 primers Remington sent us. Those Clerke match barrels on them shot that load very accurate.

Therefore I suggest you use extruded powders. Benchresters gave up on ball powders years ago; never produced the accuracy extruded ones do.

[Canuck-IL]

That's an interesting perspective on ball powders. From the postings of experienced service rifle shooters though it seems that RL-15 is likely as popular as Varget ... they each have a few loads of which are said, "If your gun won't shoot this, there's something wrong with the gun."

John Holliger offers a few such loads on one of his pages ...
http://www.whiteoakprecision.com/info-reloading.htm

For the OP, I'd try the 69gr bullets (Sierra MK or Nosler Custom Comp)...most 1:9s will handle them.
/Bryan

[JDGray]

Sierra Bullets had shipped us several hundred 52-gr. HPBT match bullets and suggested we try different charge weights of IMR4895 or IMR2198 and forget about any ball powder.

Do you mean 4198?

[Bart B.]

JDGray got my attention with this one:Quote:
Sierra Bullets had shipped us several hundred 52-gr. HPBT match bullets and suggested we try different charge weights of IMR4895 or IMR2198 and forget about any ball powder.

Do you mean 4198? Yes, I meant 4198. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

[JDGray]

Yes, I meant 4198. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Thought you might have had some super match powder, that I couldn't find:D

[Bart B.]

Brian's comments:That's an interesting perspective on ball powders. From the postings of experienced service rifle shooters though it seems that RL-15 is likely as popular as Varget ... they each have a few loads of which are said, "If your gun won't shoot this, there's something wrong with the gun."Yes, that perspective's interesting. I would have never thought it so until I learned from high power rifle competition folks who won the matches and set the records about the "ball vs extruded" powder wars. I've heard a few benchresters say WW748 will drive tacks in their best rifles, but only when pressure's way too high for safety. Some folks using Ohlers pressure testing stuff have mentioned ball powder has a rather uneven and fast rising pressure spike when it starts burning on its way to normal pressures. Possible evidence that the bullet's being slammed too hard into the rifling and upsetting its base a bit ununiformly causing some accuracy problems.

Regarding your reference:"If your gun won't shoot this, there's something wrong with the gun."I'm convinced this is not the correct phrasing. It may well be best changed to "......there's something wrong with your gun and/or reloading tools and techniques. Given the same load data to 20 reloaders, 1 or 2, maybe 3 will use good tools a good way to make all their ammo perfrom uniformly and therefore very accurate. The rest will be doing something that's not qute right (or very much wrong) for best accuracy. Their reloads may be perfect, but it they themselves can't shoot well, they'll reject that load. Then they'll try something else and just happen to luck out with 1 or 2 tiny groups and claim that load's the only way to go. Afterwords, they'll never shoot that load that well again.

[Canuck-IL]

Bart B.,
It may well be best changed to ......
Yeah, I'd agree with the more elaborate version ... and all those loads rejected for the 'wrong' reasons become enshrined as part of the internet legend/rumor mill.

I'll have to try some 4895 in 5.56 since it's hanging around anyway. I've had such excellent accuracy from widely used RL-15 and AA2460 loads at moderate velocities that I've not previously been tempted away from the easy to meter ball powders. Perhaps if I could spend some more time at 600 yards I'd see the difference.
/B

[SlamFire1]

At 100 yards I generally shoot my across the course short range loads (out to 300 yards) with the 69's. That is because I am too lazy to load a strickly 100 yard load. I know I have shot a bunch of 199's, might have shot a 200 with those bullets. I have shot Hornady, Nosler and SMK, they all shoot very well.

Now my evil friends, who want to win everything, even stupid 100 yard matches, they are loading those flat based match bullets (53's?) and H4895. Their secret load was just above 24 grains with H4895.

Now their targets are 200's with blown out X rings.

[SlamFire1]

I had to jump into this thread. The reason is I was the first person to shoot across the CMP/DCM National Match Course with the M16. Happened at the Nationals in 1971 when I was on the USN Rifle Team. We developed loads at the US Naval Station at Annapolis, MD while in training and practice for the Interservice and National Matches.

You must have gotten a lot of looks carting a AR15 at the Nationals. Everyone must have thought you were a Marksman class shooter, bringing a Mouse Gun to a 30 caliber sport.

What the heck did you shoot at long range? I understood the 80 grain bullets were not one the market till the 90's. I have shot 69's at 600 yards, and they might as well have sails and rudders, so wind sensitive are the little beastie's.

( I was testing them for a Rattle Battle zero. And I was making X after X, thinking I had discovered a hidden treasure, then a tiny puff of wind blew one out in the eight ring.)