FedEx Ammo Delivery - 9/20 boxes arrived... grrrrrr...


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Sven
January 18, 2003, 01:35 PM
I recently ordered a case of S&B from an online dealer whom I respect and therefore will leave nameless.

The package was delivered FedEx, which I prefer to UPS.

Watching the tracking system, I saw it arrive in a major hub near where I live... and then head back OUT OF STATE. Confused, I contacted the retailer who explained that it was probably just a mixup, and the package would be here shortly.

Well, 9 days total had passed, with the package in some 'limbo' status on the online tracking system, so I called the retailer again, who called FedEx and found out that the package had opened up (?) and there had been some problems.

When the package arrived today, this is what I found:

Hardly a full case, eh? 9 boxes, each of which is wrapped in plastic tape. Not a single box in factory new condition. No loose rounds... 11 boxes missing.

What do you guys think happened?

http://www.imageseek.com/sven/fedex1_small.JPG

Is a FedEx employee somewhere shooting my .45 ammo?

Thanks,

-s


---

Update - not all the boxes are full! Great, great.

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4v50 Gary
January 18, 2003, 01:43 PM
"There was some problem" is an understatement for theft.

Sven
January 18, 2003, 02:00 PM
Here is a close-up of some of the rounds. Is this normal for factory S&B? I've never seen S&B ammo arrive in this condition before.

http://www.imageseek.com/sven/fedex4.JPG

Looks like some of my ammo spent the night on the warehouse floor - if not outside.

Is this ammo safe to use?

Steaming,

-s

dfrog
January 18, 2003, 02:01 PM
Sure looks like someone helped themselves. That is the kind of incident that makes you wonder if it is worth it to order some things online.

scottgun
January 18, 2003, 02:52 PM
I would return what they sent you and ask for a full refund. It might not be the online retailers fault, but it might make them reconsider who they use to ship. Also, this was most likey ordered using your credit card, call the credit card company immediately to report that an online purchase was not received in the quantity and condition that you ordered. Good luck.

Kevlarman
January 18, 2003, 03:09 PM
Well, I work at UPS, but it works practically the same way:

If there is an open box on the floor, and they cannot find the rest of the missing pieces, they tape up what's left and send it on it's way to the receiver. That way, the receiver at least gets *something.*
If the rest of the stuff is found, it goes to another place in the hub, where the workers try to determine where they go.

It's pretty hard to walk out with stolen merchandise where I work, since we have to go through metal detectors to get in and out.

Airwolf
January 18, 2003, 03:41 PM
The S&B I've gotten is clean enough to eat off of and polished enough to put in a display case.

What you have looks like it spent a few hours on the ground being kicked around and walked on.

:fire: :scrutiny:

Triad
January 18, 2003, 03:45 PM
It's pretty hard to walk out with stolen merchandise where I work, since we have to go through metal detectors to get in and out.
How hard would it be for a guy doing local deliveries to put something in his truck and drop it off at his house?

Mike Irwin
January 18, 2003, 03:57 PM
I'd say it looks like the package with your ammo took a header off a pallet and burst open.


As for how hard would it be for somone to drop something off at his house?

Not hard. But it would be a lot harder to explain where the package disappeared to.

Those trucks are inventoried 6 ways from Sunday as they're loaded, and the barcoding reader that the delivery guys carry is a "running" inventory of what's left on the truck and what's been delivered.

Penman
January 18, 2003, 04:17 PM
I don't know if you've had problems with UPS in the past, but I know of one large retailer in my area who did most of their business over the internet and phone, and they switched from Fed Ex to UPS after numerous problems with the service and missing packages.

Triad
January 18, 2003, 04:29 PM
Mike, what if the package burst, and someone scooped up some free ammo? Then he wouldn't have to explain if nobody saw him do it. That is what I was getting at.

Sven
January 18, 2003, 04:47 PM
Exactly. I understand a few rounds missing (not that it would stop me from following up with the retailer) if the box broke open, but OVER HALF of the ammo is missing.

AK103K
January 18, 2003, 07:42 PM
Aren't you supposed to notify the shipping agent and file a claim if things are damaged?

ajw45
January 18, 2003, 07:48 PM
Was this shipped FEDEX ground perhaps? FEDEX Ground (not express) has some of the worst service I've ever seen, anywhere.

Kevlarman
January 18, 2003, 08:15 PM
How hard would it be for a guy doing local deliveries to put something in his truck and drop it off at his house?

Not very hard at all. Like Mike Irwin said, all packages are scanned whenever they arrive, whenever they leave, and whenever they are delivered. It's hard for a package to just "disappear." Besides, I trust the drivers a lot more than I trust the normal schmoes working on the floor (including me). :D

Mauserlady
January 18, 2003, 08:29 PM
FEDEX Ground (not express) has some of the worst service I've ever seen, anywhere.

Boy I can't argue one bit with you there. We have had more film lost/stolen and damaged bu Fed Ex ground in a 4 month period than we have had with UPS in a 15 year period....


Back to the topic at hand....

I would contact dealer and let them know what happened and that you are not happy with the product that you received. If you have ordered from them before and suspect that this was not the product (or condition of product) they shipped let them know that while at the same time letting them know you want to send it back and either try again or get a refund.

I would also file a complaint with Fed Ex...

gryphon
January 18, 2003, 09:18 PM
I would be screaming from the hill tops! I'd let FedEx know, I'd let the company that you purchased from, I'd file an incident with the credit card company, and anyone else involved.

Beat the grass to startle the snakes, so to speak.

I know that some firearms and hi end electronics manufacturers have returned items shipped to a place where the address and "company bame" are a little less conspicuous. This helps fool the thieves as it's easier to guess what's in a "southern ohio guns", Ruger, or Ammo-is-us box than say "returns department" or "department J".

Mike Irwin
January 18, 2003, 09:20 PM
Triad,

OH! Gotcha. I didn't read your question that way. My bad, I'd expect the truck packers to have more of an opportunity to do that, though, as the drivers normally don't load their own trucks, do they?

M1911Owner
January 18, 2003, 10:35 PM
OK, the first thing you need to do is immediately file a claim with Fed Ex. They have a procedure for dealing with things like this. I suspect that they will make it right for you.

A number of years ago I shipped a computer from Hawaii back to Kali via UPS. They evidently dropped the box on its corner, rendering the computer inoperable. They ended up paying me about $6,000. And it really wasn't much of a hassle. They deal with this sort of stuff all the time.

But, the important thing is to file the claim absolutely as soon as possible. They'll probably want to come out and examine the box, so you need to keep everything that you received.

Blackhawk
January 18, 2003, 11:20 PM
Sven, the ammo you got that passes your inspection may be SAFE to use, but that would also signal your accpetance of the shipment and complicate getting full satisfaction.

IMO, the vendor has the gripe with FedEx. I long ago took the position that things I order aren't MINE until I receive them in good condition. Until then, they belong to the vendor who has recourse from the shipper if something goes wrong.

There used to be an F.O.B. (Freight On Board) designation, and vendors would try to ship the product "FOB (vendor's location)". I'd refuse that and make sure it was designated "FOB (my dock)". Amazing how many dollars and hassles that saved me over several decades!

Ask your vendor to reship your order and issue a pickup order for what you received. Volunteer to pack it back up suitable for shipment, and if the vendor gives you any static, inform it that you're calling in your Credit Card company as your advocate. I'll bet you get a replacement order in no time, and I'll almost guarantee that your vendor has gone through this many times with different shippers.

Bottom line: It's not your hassle, just a slight inconvenience to you, but these things happen.

Greg L
January 19, 2003, 08:34 AM
Did S&B change their packaging recently? All of the boxes I've ever seen are green and yellow. I can make out S&B on the boxes in the photo but given the different markings and the condition of the ammo I would think that the stuff is OLD.

As with the others I agree that you need to contact the shipper and FedEx immediately as they have a problem to work out between them.

Greg

Kobun
January 19, 2003, 10:46 AM
Greg L, Did S&B change their packaging recently? All of the boxes I've ever seen are green and yellow. I can make out S&B on the boxes in the photo but given the different markings and the condition of the ammo I would think that the stuff is OLD. Those are the NEW S&B boxes. They came out last year, and now all S&B ammo (exept those loaded with sierra? bullets) use those boxes.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=43854

craigz
January 19, 2003, 02:27 PM
Fed Ex Ground once tried to deliver two cases of .30-06 from the CMP to my house. When they discovered I wasn't home and they couldn't leave it, they were too lazy to come back the next day, so they started knocking on doors until they found someone home. They ended up leaving the ammo with a neighbor four doors down who I had never seen before, and who had a house full of kids. Fed Ex air is the best in the business, in my experience, but Fed Ex Ground is by far the worst.

twoblink
January 20, 2003, 12:02 AM
Was that the package that was used in the beginning of "Ace Ventura, Pet Detective"???:what:

Sven
January 20, 2003, 12:33 AM
literally laughing out loud, twoblink

Hold on, that WAS Ace who delivered the package!

Sven
January 26, 2003, 04:28 PM
Followup: the retailer replaced the missing ammo quickly - the package went out the day after I called.

I can now reveal that the company was ProLoad, and they continue to prove themselves top notch in customer service.

Very opinionated owner... call him and ask him his opinion of Cor-Bon sometime. =)

Blackhawk
January 26, 2003, 05:12 PM
Good! :D Very opinionated owner... call him and ask him his opinion of Cor-Bon sometime. Give us a clue about his opinion and why he has it. :confused:

Sven
January 26, 2003, 09:22 PM
Look, I'm not trying to start a storm here or to act as a lightning rod for the differences between these companies - just reporting (part of) what I was told.

-

The owner told me a story where a gunsmith sent him some 9mm Cor-Bon that was running 'hot' - they did tests and _all_ rounds in the batch were 5000-10000 PSI over SAAMI specs (and way over advertised pressures)... very dangerous, potentially, in many guns.

I asked him why I see Cor-Bon in stores everywhere but only learned of ProLoad through TFL - he told me that selling through distributors is a pain in the arse and has never been profitable, and that his half and full page ads never generated more than a trickle of interest.

There was more, but this isn't the place to talk about it. Start a Cor-Bon vs. ProLoad thread and I'm sure guys will come out of the woodwork. =)

AR-10
January 26, 2003, 10:33 PM
I'm glad you got your ammo problem resolved,

BUT

what you post about CorBon ammunition is heresay, and your supplier should have kept that little tidbit to himself. He gave you very little information regarding the ammo, unless you neglected to share in detail. Maybe he knows what he is talking about, maybe he doesn't.

I've got some CorBon .38 Special that is way over SAAMI specs, too. Says so right on the box. Plus P Plus, 1300 fps.

Maybe he saw some defective ammo. Maybe he just neglected to read the box.

The ProLoad you speak of is not the Ammo manufacturer by the same name is it? I assume not, as I don't imagine they would sell S&B. Just curious. You make it sound like one ammo manufacturer dissing another, with a third brand thrown in.:confused:

Blackhawk
January 26, 2003, 10:42 PM
9mm Cor-Bon that was running 'hot' - they did tests and _all_ rounds in the batch were 5000-10000 PSI over SAAMI specs Since 9mm are high pressure rounds anyway (in the 35kpsi range), these numbers aren't that ridiculously high, and I wonder exactly how they were tested. :confused:

Not to be too picky, but way back in engineering school, a safety margin of at least 2:1 for pressure and stress tolerance was always practiced. IOW, a 9mm pistol designed to handle 35kpsi was actually designed for at least 70kpsi.

Testing dynamic pressures and getting errors of +/- 30% in those ranges wouldn't surprise me in the least.

Sven
January 26, 2003, 11:14 PM
what you post about CorBon ammunition is heresay

Everyone relax.

Take a deep breath.

OK, continue. I'm sure your ammo is fine. I'm sure 'hot batches' come out from time to time.

kalibear45
January 27, 2003, 02:19 AM
:what:

Kahr carrier
January 27, 2003, 06:53 AM
If your ammo was shipped Fedex It sounds like your Box broke open and the ammo probably got Loose . I know that FedEx Express side is pretty secure. Their Hub sorting facilities have close circuit Cameras as well as their delivery stations,some of their stations have over 50 cameras in and around the buildings .Fedex also uses a barcode Tracking system where the packages are scanned at every departure point from origin to delivery. Their couriers make an average of $40,000.00 a year and if you are not home they will try to do an indirect delivery at a neighbors house ,but they are suppose to leave a note at your house informing you of that,unless your package has it noted that it cannot be delivered indirectly. At the sorting facilitys they have X-ray machines and metal detectors that employees have to go through. They also send sting packages through the system that are Dusted to see if anyone will Pilfer it .They do prosecute thieves,Which is also a Federal offense -Interstate transportation. Was the Ammo package well??? I suspect your ammo ended up in the Overgoods Dept.in Memphis.:)

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