Purchasing an M1 Carbine in MA


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Owlnmole
July 7, 2009, 07:00 AM
I am posted overseas so I have asked my grandfather, a licensed gun dealer in Massachusetts, to put together a small gun collection on my behalf. So far, he has been able to find an M1 Garand, M1917 Enfield and an M1 Carbine. ;-)

I understand Massachusetts has restrictions on large-capacity firearms that may apply to an M1 Carbine given the standard GI magazine capacity of 15 rounds. Do I need to get a Massachusetts FID or some such thing for him to transfer the guns to my ownership? I am no longer a Massachusetts resident, I am now a Florida resident.

I used to have Federal C&R collectors license, and would be happy to get one again if that would make things easier. Any advice?

Thanks!

Matthew

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danbrew
July 7, 2009, 07:30 AM
It's complicated by the fact that he is a licensee. If your grandfather was not an FFL holder, many folks would simply drive up to Mass after returning to the US, load the guns in the car and drive back to Florida.

Yet, unfortunately, that's not legal. The only legal way for you to obtain the guns is for your grandfather to transfer them to a FFL holder in Florida and then for you to acquire the guns through the local FFL dealer.

Your grandfather can't just take the guns off his books - he has to be able to show disposition of the guns. You won't need (or probably be able to get) a Mass gun card since you are no longer a resident of the state. I suppose your grandfather could sell the guns to someone locally (your father?, your brother?) and then that person could help you load the guns in the trunk and all that, but it'd likely be easier for him to ship them all to a friendly dealer in Florida upon your return.

:D

Trebor
July 7, 2009, 07:40 AM
If you get a C&R license he could ship you the C&R eligible guns to you in Florida.

Otherwise, he'll have to ship them to a FFL dealer in Florida, who could then transfer them to you. (Which is what he'd have to do with any non-C&R eligible guns)

Owlnmole
July 7, 2009, 08:29 AM
Thanks!

Presumably all three of the guns I mentioned are C&R eligible so that sounds like the best option. I could not travel to an out of state dealer with my C&R license and buy the guns in person, they must be shipped?

And if I am traveling in across the USA I cannot purchase a gun in MA as a non-resident, even a rifle or shotgun? Things sure have become ridiculous since I was a kid. Believe it or not, MA laws used to be perfectly reasonable on the subject.

Cheers,

Matthew

danbrew
July 7, 2009, 09:41 AM
Yeah, good point, if they are all C&R, you could just get a C&R license and be done with it. Although ensure that the guns in question are actually C&R guns instead of more recent copies.

Completely as an aside, I see the days of the "is at least 50 years old = automatically a C&R" coming to an end one of these days.

:D

Trebor
July 7, 2009, 01:37 PM
Presumably all three of the guns I mentioned are C&R eligible so that sounds like the best option. I could not travel to an out of state dealer with my C&R license and buy the guns in person, they must be shipped?

Good question. I *should* know the answer to this as I used to have a C&R, but I'm not confident that I really know the correct answer. Check the ATF FAQ and see if that addresses the issue. (Hint, I *think* you can use your C&R FFL to purchase firearms in another state, but I'm not 100% sure on that...)

And if I am traveling in across the USA I cannot purchase a gun in MA as a non-resident, even a rifle or shotgun? Things sure have become ridiculous since I was a kid. Believe it or not, MA laws used to be perfectly reasonable on the subject.

Let's disregard the possible C&R FFL for a moment as I'm not sure how that changes things.

In general, the ATF has said that you can purchase a firearm (long gun only) from a FFL holder in another state *as long as the purchase is legal in both states.* That means, for it to be legal, that MA law has to allow a FFL dealer to sell a firearm to an out-of-state resident and that FL law has to allow you to purchase a firearm from an out-of-state FFL Dealer.

Some states allow you to purchase a firearm (Long gun only) from a FFL dealer in their state, even if you are a resident of another state, and other states do NOT allow this. Some states have specific lists of other states from which they allow such a purchase. Typically these are bordering states, but that is not a requirement under Federal law anymore.

Handgun sales must be made within the purchasers own stat only.

The more I think about it, the more I think your C&R FFL would allow you to acquire C&R firearms *only* from states outside your home state. Like I said though, I'm not 100% sure of that.

S

Owlnmole
July 7, 2009, 05:16 PM
Well, the answer to the C&R question seems clear in the ATF FAQs:

Is there a specific license which permits a collector to acquire firearms in interstate commerce?

Yes. The person may obtain a collector's license; however, this license applies only to transactions in curio or relic firearms.

[27 CFR 478.41(c),(d), 478.50(b) and 478.93]

LemmyCaution
July 8, 2009, 09:44 AM
The correct answers are here:

http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/MASL.pdf

In short:

You can't transfer firearms in MA, unless the receiver has an FID.

The M1 carbine is defined as an assault rifle in MA.

MA's definition of C&R is far more stringent than the Federal.

I'd have them shipped to an FFL in Florida, were I you.

Owlnmole
July 8, 2009, 10:20 PM
OK, I am now completely confused. How can MA law trump when, if I get my C&R license again and as a MA non-resident, both my FFL-holder grandfather and I would be engaging in activities which the Federal Government has specifically licensed both of us to do?

Trebor
July 9, 2009, 03:02 PM
I'd have them shipped to a FFL in Florida if I were you

If Owlnmole gets his C&R FFL, he essentially *is* a FFL in Florida, at least for the purpose of accepting the shipment of C&R rifles from MA. A C&R FFL holder is a "licesned individual" for these purposes.

Since the rifles are *leaving* MA, and not entering the state, it doesn't matter if MA considers them to be C&R eligible or not.

His Grandfather can ship them to him directly as long as they are C&R eligible under Federal law, and Owlnmole actually gets that C&R FFL. If not, yeah, he'd have to have them shipped to a FFL dealer in Florida, who then could transfer them to Owlnmole.

Owlnmole
July 9, 2009, 07:37 PM
So he could ship them to me, but I couldn't accept them in person? I have already sent for the form for the C&R, by the way.

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