Apparently Ex-Presidents Can Possess Full Auto Guns Without Legal Hassles


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damien
July 7, 2009, 07:06 PM
Interesting story, anyway.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/06/us/06gun.html?scp=2&sq=gun&st=cse

Hussein’s Gun May Go on Display at Bush Library

Many American presidents have kept prized possessions within reach during their White House years. Franklin D. Roosevelt cherished a 19th century ship model of the U.S.S. Constitution. One of Dwight D. Eisenhower’s favorite gifts was an engraved Steuben glass bowl from his cabinet. And sitting on John F. Kennedy’s desk in the Oval Office was a paperweight made from a coconut shell he had carved with a distress message after his PT-109 was sunk during World War II.

The objects have been bequeathed to the American public, accessible through a visit to each man’s presidential library and museum. And so when the library for George W. Bush opens in 2013 on the campus of Southern Methodist University in Dallas, visitors will most likely get to see one of his most treasured items: Saddam Hussein’s pistol.

The gun, a 9 millimeter Glock 18C, was found in the spider hole where the Iraqi leader was captured in December 2003 by Delta Force soldiers, four of whom later presented the pistol to Mr. Bush. Among the thousands of gifts Mr. Bush received as president, the gun became a favorite, a reminder of the pinnacle moment of the Iraq war, according to friends and long-time associates.

Before Mr. Bush left the White House in January, he made arrangements for the gun to be shipped to a national archives warehouse just 18 miles north of his new home in Dallas. His foundation said a final decision had not been made on including the gun in the presidential library. But his associates and visitors to the White House said Mr. Bush had told them of his intention to display it there.

For nearly five years, Mr. Bush kept the mounted, glass-encased pistol in the Oval Office or a study, showing it with pride, especially to military officials, they said. He also let visitors in on a secret: when the pistol was recovered, it was unloaded.

“We were getting ready to leave the Oval Office, and he told us, ‘Wait a minute, guys, I want to show you something,’ ” recalled Pete Hegseth, the chairman of Vets for Freedom, who described a July 2007 visit. “The president moved back into his private study and he came out with the gun, inside this glass case. He said, ‘The Delta guys pulled it off Saddam.’ He was very proud of it.”

Mr. Bush also showed Mr. Hegseth another item: a brick from the Iraq safe house where the Qaeda leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was killed by an American air strike in 2006.

The gun is among 40,000 artifacts and gifts the Bushes had collected, including the bullhorn Mr. Bush used to address rescue workers at ground zero and a special edition Cooperstown baseball bat signed by every living Hall of Famer.

Douglas Brinkley, an author and history professor at Rice University, said the pistol opened a psychological window into Mr. Bush’s view of his presidency.

“It represents this Texas notion of the white hats taking out the black hats and keeping the trophy,” Mr. Brinkley said. “It’s a True West magazine kind of pulp western mentality. For President Bush, this pistol represents his greatest moment of triumph, like the F.B.I. keeping Dillinger’s gun. He wants people generations from now to see the gun and say, ‘He got the bad guy.’ ”

Mr. Bush once said his favorite biography was of Sam Houston, the Texas hero who would have kept a gun from a vanquished enemy, Mr. Brinkley said. The fact that Mr. Hussein’s gun was unloaded was an amazing “irony,” he added.

Mark Langdale, the president of the George W. Bush Foundation, said the library would use items to highlight 25 of Mr. Bush’s presidential decisions. “The gun is an interesting artifact, and it tells you that the United States captured Saddam Hussein and disarmed him literally,” Mr. Langdale said. “How we fit that into the decision to go to war, we haven’t gotten to that point yet.”

One longtime friend of Mr. Bush, who like the others spoke on condition of anonymity, said the gun had become as important to Mr. Bush as the police shield given to him by Arlene Howard, the mother of a New York Port Authority officer, George Howard, who died on Sept. 11. He still keeps the shield with him, the friend said.

The George W. Bush Presidential Center will cost $200 million. More than $100 million has already been donated, according to several of Mr. Bush’s friends. The former president has raised much of the money, usually at small luncheons and dinners. Some donors have given as much as $5 million, the friends said.

“The president is working very hard, and the money is rolling in,” one friend said. “People love the man, they think he did a great job, and they know the library is very important to him.”

The odyssey of the gun began on Dec. 13, 2003, when Mr. Hussein was discovered in the 8-foot-deep hole on a farm near Tikrit. Delta Force soldiers did not see the gun at first, said Steve Russell, a retired Army lieutenant colonel who helped lead the mission and is now a Oklahoma state senator.

Mr. Russell said Mr. Hussein had been crouched on all fours, the gun on the floor. The soldiers kept the rare pistol, which can fire bullets automatically, with two AK-47s found in the farmhouse, he said.

In early 2004, one of the soldiers came up with the idea of presenting the gun to Mr. Bush. On March 1 that year, the Delta Force men surprised the president with the pistol at an Oval Office meeting.

“That was a great day,” Mr. Bush told the Pentagon Channel in December. “I’ve had a lot of beautiful days in office; some not so happy. But my best days have come when certain milestones have been reached, and I love to share those milestones and those days with the people who actually made them happen.”

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oneounceload
July 7, 2009, 07:13 PM
so? he IS the ex CIC and POTUS.....yep, that slot gets a little more leeway than you or I......so what???

Gryffydd
July 7, 2009, 07:16 PM
so? he IS the ex CIC and POTUS.....yep, that slot gets a little more leeway than you or I......so what???
Ex being the key word. He's just another citizen. The "What" is that the NFA and everything after it is garbage, but that's another story.

3pairs12
July 7, 2009, 07:16 PM
I bet he is in Crawford right now shooting the 18c. Lucky guy.

AnthonyC.
July 7, 2009, 07:20 PM
I wouldnt trust some other ex-presidents, (i.e. Clinton) with a full auto pistol.

Shung
July 7, 2009, 07:30 PM
A FA glock is useless anyway.... By the way, do you know for WHO and WHY it was designed ?

ps: turning a standard glock 17 or 19 to FA can be done just by replacing one part..

kd7nqb
July 7, 2009, 07:36 PM
I thought it was pretty standard to remove some internals on any of these display guns? Wouldn't that fix the issue?

jnyork
July 7, 2009, 07:37 PM
The story is written by a member of the media and as such is suspect from the gitgo. Where does it say the gun is full auto, except for the sentence at the end saying the gun "can fire bullets automatically" which is likely the standard dismal lack of gun knowledge by the reporter. Maybe I missed something?

Gryffydd
July 7, 2009, 07:40 PM
Maybe I missed something?
He did say it was a Glock 18...

SharpsDressedMan
July 7, 2009, 07:41 PM
There is no exemption, or law, that LEGALLY permits him to take possession of that gun. By military laws in effect, and by current IMPORT laws, a fully auto foreign weapon cannot be imported for private use. The military can and has brought weapons in for training, analysis, reference, etc, but BATF has strick guidlines from 1968 pertaining to full auto weapons, and was further restricted in 1986 with the full auto ban. Any full auto weapons brought in after 1986 were supposed to be for LE use, or demo guns for Class III delaers, and those could not be retained after the dealer gave up his license, like pre-86 dealer samples. This Glock 18C does not meet the criteria for private ownership. If the issue of ownership was brought before a US magistrate, I don't think it would pass the scrutiny of the law.

oneounceload
July 7, 2009, 07:42 PM
Ex being the key word. He's just another citizen. The "What" is that the NFA and everything after it is garbage, but that's another story.

oh yeah, an as an EX, he get Secret Service protection forever...

geez, get a life.....:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

if a person was able to be entrusted with the most secret of secrets, what's YOUR problem with him having a G-18???

spartywrx
July 7, 2009, 07:42 PM
I think there's a special rule for gifts to US office holders. They become property of the government. For example when Queen Elizabeth and Obama exchanged gifts, any gift Obama received that's over a certain low value amount becomes property of the US government, not him personally. Since the Glock is $$$, it becomes property of the .gov, and thus can be registered, since .gov's can register NFA items. That is my understanding of gifts.

An article here (link) (http://www.kippreport.com/2009/06/saudi’s-gifts-to-the-us/) talks about what happens to all that loot the Saudi's gave Obama after his Cairo speech.


Also, isn't there some sort of process for war trophies to be registered?

damien
July 7, 2009, 07:42 PM
If it's an 18C it is full auto.

Gryffydd
July 7, 2009, 07:43 PM
oh yeah, an as an EX, he get Secret Service protection forever...

geez, get a life.
So? post severance benefits are one thing. Exemption from the law is another.
Why the need to be rude? I quite enjoy my life. I enjoy it so much I don't find the need to tell random people on internet forums to get their own.

ChapNelson
July 7, 2009, 07:44 PM
Article says "Glock 18c" The Glock 18 is a full auto version of the 17; C would be for compensated ... a subtlety the reporter is probably not aware of so even though he got it right, it may not have been out of a need to be accurate when discussing guns.

everallm
July 7, 2009, 07:47 PM
The Ex does NOT own this or any other gift presented to him during the period of his office. The gift belongs to the Office of the President or the National Archives only.

If the Ex sets up a library or other self serving monument of self aggrandizement the library can request a loan of items from the national archives.

Doesn't belong to him, he has no ownership of it, no breach of the law

oneounceload
July 7, 2009, 07:48 PM
So? post severance benefits are one thing. Exemption from the law is another.
Why the need to be rude? I quite enjoy my life. I enjoy it so much I don't find the need to tell random people on internet forums to get their own.

RUDE???...dude, YOU basically insulting the intelligence of a former POTUS is rude

mljdeckard
July 7, 2009, 07:48 PM
In surrendering it to the library for display, does he still posess it? Is it up to the administrator of the library to ensure that it is in non-firing condition?

Gryffydd
July 7, 2009, 07:51 PM
RUDE???...dude, YOU basically insulting the intelligence of a former POTUS is rude
When did I do that?

oneounceload
July 7, 2009, 07:53 PM
Ex being the key word. He's just another citizen. The "What" is that the NFA and everything after it is garbage, but that's another story.

sorry, but ANY ex POTUS is not just another citizen, even billy-boy

Gryffydd
July 7, 2009, 07:56 PM
sorry, but ANY ex POTUS is not just another citizen, even billy-boy
You can feel however you want to feel about them. That doesn't change their legal standing.
Since when does intelligence have anything to do with being a citizen? How is it an insult to an ex POTUS' intelligence to associate him with the citizens of this country--including yourself, numerous rocket scientists and mathematicians etc. etc....

In any case, it's a moot point as it has been clarified that it doesn't belong to him.

rbernie
July 7, 2009, 10:09 PM
And on that note, we quietly draw a curtain over this scene of conflict and strife...

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