Laser sights on defensive weapons...important?


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m_kirk2001
July 8, 2009, 05:56 AM
How important are laser sights on defensive weapons? I don't want to buy into hype, but the advertisements and promotional information put forth by companies like Crimson Trace make it seem like any rational person would secure a laser sight for their primary carry and home defense weapons.

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TAB
July 8, 2009, 06:35 AM
Carry no, HD yes.

The only reason why I say yes for the HD gun is, I might not be the one using the gun.

If a non-shooting member of the house hold needed to use the gun, they would be of great benfit.

They do make great training aids, you can see what your doing with the trigger.

hobgob
July 8, 2009, 06:36 AM
I chose Luxury, tho now that I think about it, tritium 3-dot night sights are much more tactically sound. they are made for use in bright and low light conditions and they don't give away your position as a laser would. I feel that they arent worth the money. Learn to shoot with your normal 3-dots. they dont run out of batteries.

Grey_Mana
July 8, 2009, 06:41 AM
Using lasers on guns is like sex - a lot of the naysayers haven't tried it. And if they have and didn't like it, they weren't doing it right.

Kind of Blued
July 8, 2009, 06:46 AM
The main advantage to laser grips has little to do with "aiming", and much more to do with focus. Once your target is identified, you can remain focused on that target instead of having to refocus on your front sight.

No matter how much I train, I don't trust my sleepy 3AM eyes to focus on my front sight when a 250lb. crackhead with a butcher's knife is running up my stairs.

LaVere
July 8, 2009, 08:09 AM
My shooting buddy got a laser sight for his Kahr k9 That alone improved his shooting accuracy tremendously. Whether it tought him better tiggger control or something else I don't know. I do know he shoots alot better now.

winterset
July 8, 2009, 08:12 AM
I have to agree with Kind of Blued...My eyesight won't be at its best for a few minutes after being suddenly awakened.

Also, as I get older It's becoming very difficult for me to focus on my front sight in the daylight, without my glasses, let alone in the dark...I don't think I'll take the time to find and put on my glasses in a life threatening situation. So, for me, I think a laser is a must have

divemedic
July 8, 2009, 09:59 AM
I can't answer the poll- the choices are all either that you don't need them, or that you must have them, with no middle ground.

Laser sights are a tool that can be useful in some situations. They are not a replacement for your 3 dot sights, but they can be used to augment them. Two of my pistols have a laser on them, and I find them to be useful under some conditions.

Those same pistols have 3 dot tritium and fiber optic high vis sights on them.

jhco
July 8, 2009, 10:08 AM
I do feel that they can serve a good purpose but not at all a necessity. As it has already been said you might not be the one in the house using it so it may help a lesser trained member of the house who might need to use to gun.
For me I do carry a 642 with a crimson trace for the fact that it is hard to aim a pistol in a vehicle and this might help me keep the shots on target in that situation.

Deanimator
July 8, 2009, 10:52 AM
I avoid "doo dads" like the plague. No lights, lasers, vibrators, etc.

Iron sights for self defense (no fiber optic front sights either).
1" dot sights for bullseye competition.

WNC Seabee
July 8, 2009, 11:07 AM
Must have with a qualifier.

I think the ability to focus on the BG is critically important and the laser dot helps that. In a stressful situation I think that dot will be a huge advantage. Unless you've actually "been there done that" in a real-world situation, you have no idea how you'll react, so any advantage is a good one.

That being said, I think it's just as important to be proficient with your iron sights and point shooting.

My self defense practice is generally 15% with the CT laser, 35% focusing on the sights and 50% instinct/point shooting. All between 5-15 yards.

pbearperry
July 8, 2009, 11:22 AM
One advantage of the laser is that you don't have to place the gun in front of your face to sight it on a bad guy.This gives you a much better picture of the BG and all around the area.

Eightball
July 8, 2009, 11:30 AM
For a defensive weapon, having the ability to make accurate shots in a less-than-ideal stance/without having your firearm in the ideal firing position, is an incredible aid. I thought that the laser sights were a gimmick.....until I was able to plant a whole mag within .75" out of a 1911 at 15 yards with my weak hand, shooting with the gun held low towards my hip.

If you think that in a situation you'll be able to take up a perfect stance, etc....good luck with that. I, for one, with any gun on which I rely for my own safety, prefer to have every possible disadvantage mitigated or removed, in the hopes that I'm the one still "alive and well" after an incident......and that doesn't necessitate thinking that I'll have the time to get a correct sight picture at X-o'clock, or at a bizarre angle, or.....etc.

bnkrazy
July 8, 2009, 11:36 AM
Lasers have their place. Low light and night shooting, as well as immediate feedback on shot placement are the top reasons I have CT grips on my nightstand gun.

As mentioned, the laser also helps provide valuable feedback when training, and is a great visual indicator of common problems such as flinching when used with snap-caps, etc.

bnkrazy
July 8, 2009, 11:38 AM
Excellent advice Eightball.

I challenge anyone to shoot from retention / at the hip / any uncommon stance with and without a laser. Difference will be night and day.

Ky Larry
July 8, 2009, 11:52 AM
10 years ago I would have called a laser sight a "gimmick." Now, with advancing age, failing eyesight, and diabetes, I'll take every advantage I can get.

waterhouse
July 8, 2009, 11:56 AM
I can't answer the poll- the choices are all either that you don't need them, or that you must have them, with no middle ground.

+1. I think they are useful, and worth having, but not a "must have." I have them on my 642. If they made them for my P7 I'd probably get them for that one, but they don't.

smktr8
July 8, 2009, 12:42 PM
LaserMax Internal Laser works great on my glock 17. I think you can never have to much of an Advantage. It works well if you ever needed to move from one target to another or have to reset you positon. Let face it no matter who you are the days of 2 guys in a open street in duel is over. The days of CQC are here.

mljdeckard
July 8, 2009, 12:46 PM
I won't say 'never', but I haven't missed having one yet. It's trusting a battery-powered electrical device.

I advise people to get a laser AFTER learning the fundamentals of shooting, not INSTEAD OF learning the fundamentals of shooting.

Mark K. C.
July 8, 2009, 12:53 PM
I've got Crimson Trace on my .357 snubby and If I could afford to, I would have a set on each and every handgun that I own. If the battery should die all you do is revert to the normal way you've been trained to shoot anyway. Money well spent.

KenWP
July 8, 2009, 01:06 PM
Also with a laser sight you can just shine it in their eyes and they will panic anyways. Who wants to be in jail and blind at the same time. Pretty easy to run down then.

hso
July 8, 2009, 01:44 PM
Your poll needs another category for "Useful, but not essential" since lasers are neither a necessity or a useless luxury.

Jorg Nysgerrig
July 8, 2009, 01:59 PM
I won't say 'never', but I haven't missed having one yet. It's trusting a battery-powered electrical device.
This is why I don't own any flashlights, cellphones, laptop computer, or a car with one of those new-fangled batteries. A crank is good enough for me!

jmorris
July 8, 2009, 02:06 PM
My first thought other than KISS is that in many potential defensive situations I wouldn’t want to give away my position with a beam of light. As a matter of fact the only time I can think I wouldn’t mind would be if the light was so bright to night blind someone.

21bubba
July 8, 2009, 02:08 PM
Absolutely my thoughts exactly.

mljdeckard
July 8, 2009, 02:37 PM
There's a difference between having battery powered devices, and trusting your life to one in particular.

twinsdad
July 8, 2009, 03:09 PM
Just another distraction when milisecounds count.

JoeShmoe
July 8, 2009, 04:04 PM
The Crimson Trace Lasergrip on my Model 60 has one moving part. The batteries last a long time, and can be changed regularly just like your home smoke detector. I would be willing to bet that laser grips are much less likely to fail or malfuntion than any semi-automatic handgun, or even a revolver for that matter. In other words, the grips are more reliable than the gun they are mounted on.

It doesn't make you less of a shooter to use a laser on a defensive handgun. In a high stress situation very few will have the presence of mind to focus on the front sight and smoothly squeeze the trigger. If you get a chance, try a laser. They're great.

Mags
July 8, 2009, 04:20 PM
Laser sights are fine as long as you don't start counting on it to be there. Lasers are an electrical device and therefore less reliable than a mechanical device. Practice with both and never forget how to use your irons. Me personally I got rid of all my "tacticool" lasers and picked up nice scopes and mounted lights.

barnetmill
July 8, 2009, 04:34 PM
None of the choices were suitable.

Normally I do not need them. But I have found that with my P32 Keltec I can shoot more accurately with the armalaser on it. So for deliberate fire under poor light with inadequate sights there is an advantage to the laser. I do not need a laser with my glock 33 that I normally point shoot and the issue night sights are adequate for precise aiming when called for.

TheFallGuy
July 8, 2009, 04:43 PM
Lasers are cool! But if you don't have good trigger control or the right grip, they are useless. A good laser will cost you hundreds. $100 will get you an instructor for an hour or two. I would learn without, get good groups, then add the laser.

theotherwaldo
July 8, 2009, 04:49 PM
I like the LaserMax in my G27. I don't like Crimson Trace Grip Lasers that automatically turn themselves on.

I have the option of turning it on when low light levels interfere with sight picture acquisition.

Or when my opponent is silhouetted and I cannot see any part of my gun.

Or ... .

Lasers are a handy addition that can help in a tight spot.

divemedic
July 8, 2009, 05:37 PM
I like the LaserMax in my G27. I don't like Crimson Trace Grip Lasers that automatically turn themselves on.


OTOH, that is one more thing you have to think about turning on and fiddling with. The problem with the guide rod laser is if it fails and breaks, your entire weapon is non-functional.

I can always turn off the grip laser (it has an override switch)

As far as other comments that a laser "gives away your position" - what are you planning to do- ambush Viet Cong with it?

bnkrazy
July 8, 2009, 06:07 PM
I wouldn’t want to give away my position with a beam of light

Not an issue, as most have a pressure switch under your middle finger that allows you to turn it on and off. Leave it off until you decide you have to shoot, and then press it on as you line up for the shot.

As a test, I left the batteries in one of my CT grips for almost 3 years before they finally dimmed, then died. Your battery won't just quit one day. It was noticeably dimmer for a few weeks before it quit altogether.

This was a gun I dry fired almost daily for at least a few minutes, so it had a decent workout.

After that, I decided to just replace the batteries once a year and not worry about it.

Kind of Blued
July 8, 2009, 06:32 PM
A lot of the naysayers don't seem to realize that lasers don't have artificial intelligence programmed into them. The laser isn't going to "give away your position" any more than your gun is going to "shoot you instead of the bad guy". YOU get to use discretion on when and where you will use the laser, just like with your gun. Just because a tool has wiring or batteries doesn't mean it is a failure-prone tool. Guns have been not working for as long as they've existed. I've broken hammers before, etc.

On that note, the argument about batteries seems silly to me also. Lasers provide an advantage, much like hollow point ammunition. In the absolute worst case scenarios your battery will die and your hollow point will fail to expand. At this point your gun will be JUST as effective as the guy who doesn't like "doodads because they can fail". For 99% of all situations, however, your gun will be more effective.

I could also not identify my target using a flashlight because "the batteries could die". I could also live regretful and in prison because I didn't identify my target.

mljdeckard
July 8, 2009, 07:18 PM
This is why I didn't say never. They are useful, even beneficial, just a ways down the list for me. I don't see myself buying lasers, but if say, I came across a good used gun deal that already had a laser on it, I certainly wouldn't kick it back because it had a laser.

JohnOfSuburbia
July 8, 2009, 08:15 PM
I got laser grips as a present, but as I was watching their mini-DVD I realized that they had several major advantages while lacking major downsides. Since my awareness of self-defense started in martial arts and grew from there, I first thought of the advantages against a close target:

First, you could hold the pistol in close to your body instead of thrusting it forward and closer to the target.
Second, the laser can help with a hurried initial shot.

For me, they're a gotta-have.
Now if they'd come out with Crimson Trace for the XDM...and I get a little money...I can have another "baby."

rgwalt
July 8, 2009, 08:31 PM
I have a XD 45 that I'm using as my HD gun (full size, 4" barrel). I plan on getting a set of night sights for it soon, but I am also debating a laser, a tac-light, or both (mounted separately or as one unit). I would appreciate thoughts from all the fine THR members on this.

I am interested in the laser for the reason mentioned in this thread, including aquiring and keeping a target, trigger practice, dry firing, etc. I am interested in a light so I can see what I'm shooting at. I am just wondering if a pistol mounted tactical light plus a laser would be the best combination, or if I should go with a regular flash light and a laser? Picitinny mount, or CT grips?

Any advice would be appreciated.

357mag.
July 8, 2009, 09:10 PM
When your arse is one the line,at self defence distance's,I have to dought that sights (even a little red dot)are going to come into play.Point the gun at COM,and pull the trigger as many times as needed.

JohnOfSuburbia
July 8, 2009, 09:16 PM
That was one thing I thought about, too! Here's my take:

Tactical lights are great for police or military forces that are going to go in and clear an area quickly.

A tactical light on your gun means that there is light where your gun points and only there.

The two big problems I had with that are:
If you point the light at it, you're pointing a gun at it. If you're illuminating anything other than your target with it, say your way around the room or finding a family member raiding the fridge, you're breaking rule #1 already. Conversely, you'd need another?! light to scan anywhere you're not pointing.

If there's any concern about someone seeing and shooting at a light source, this is it (lasers only give you away if their point of light moves obviously) - and you've now anchored that light at a point close to you.

What I decided was best was to get a flashlight and have laser grips, so that I can use the flashlight to look around and even move it away from my body if I was afraid someone was shooting for it. The laser's got to be on the gun, of course, and even if I had a rail, I wouldn't want the light to add more controls to fiddle with.

rgwalt
July 8, 2009, 09:20 PM
Great input JoS, much appreciated. I am beginning to think that a separate flashlight and laser would be the way to go. Now to decide on the laser...

21bubba
July 8, 2009, 09:30 PM
One range that i go to rents guns with ct grips.
Once you try them, you have to have them.

Mags
July 8, 2009, 10:02 PM
Let me put it this way if a weapon mounted laser is so gosh darn important that you "gotta have'em" then it is just a crutch and will hinder your capabilities as a shooter. I say practice with both if you have em. A good pair of night sights have never let me down, I never have to fumble with an on switch and I don't have to change the batteries.

21bubba
July 8, 2009, 10:07 PM
To The real mags. If you really believe that you need to know that they have these things called "automobiles". You don't have to still ride a horse.

Mags
July 8, 2009, 10:14 PM
If you think trusting irons over lasers is too old fashioned, why the hell doesn't the military issue lasers on their handguns? Hell I have never been issued a handgun with a rail let alone a laser! I will flat out say it I feel sorry for the man that practices only with his laser and bets his life on it without knowledge of his Irons. I find it absurd you guys recommend lasers over sights seriously this could be someones life we are talking about. As Mr. T says 'I pitty the fool'!

ScareyH22A
July 8, 2009, 10:26 PM
Lol at guys at the range with lasers on and grouping 12" at 7rds. Lasers can help if you've already got a good trigger finger.

Gun Slinger
July 8, 2009, 10:27 PM
No acceptable option for me in your poll. I couldn't choose an applicable (for me) answer.

I am not a big fan of hanging lights (or other "tacti-cool" devices :rolleyes: ) off of a gun (pistol, shotgun or rifle) since they tend become "bullet magnets" if "light discipline" is not followed.

Many who use lasers also tend to develop some "really bad habits" and become too reliant on them. Iron sights never lose battery power.

JohnOfSuburbia
July 8, 2009, 10:29 PM
Don't get me wrong, Mags - I can punish the center of a target that I've run down a well-lighted shooting lane, but I don't expect that to be the situation I have to defend myself in. For self-defense, there's no such thing as too much going for you.
Still, I don't use the laser for shooting at the lane (though I've tested that too). The sights on the slide are always more accurate and won't need re-adjusting. Given the time (and space) to use them, they're superior!

Also, about activation and batteries...
At least for my Sig, the Crimson Trace grips have a front-activation button that's under your middle finger's middle knuckle (front of grip, below trigger guard). Working it doesn't bother me. If I got really tense and klutzy, it would be on because of a tight grip. I know that C.T. doesn't have that feature on grips for all models of gun, though. With some lasers it really is a switch-on beforehand.

C.T. also has a cute deal for the batteries. When I got mine, they had an offer to send you free batteries every year. I don't figure I'll be activating the laser too much, but I could go and buy a battery if I do use it that much. An average night of self-defense is going to require using the laser for a max of what, five minutes? That's not too much drain, really.

possum
July 8, 2009, 10:30 PM
i use lasers for one thing and one thing only and that is dry fire practice. no need or use for them in a fight, and of all the training i do i do not do any with lasers. visable lasers, that is , IR is a different story however.

Mags
July 8, 2009, 10:36 PM
Gun Slinger, that is the exact point I was trying to make.

21bubba
July 8, 2009, 10:52 PM
c/t laser grips don't"hang off or under a gun" they just work.

Before you say the military or law enforcement doesn't use lasers for sighting systems, you need to check your facts.

Equal talent level, iron sights vs. laser ? You lose.

Deckard
July 8, 2009, 10:52 PM
Since my HD gun is a Remington 870 I'll do without the laser.

Mags
July 8, 2009, 10:54 PM
Before you say the military or law enforcement doesn't use lasers for sighting systems, you need to check your facts.

Here are the facts I am active duty for over 8 years and have never been issued a handgun with a rail let alone a laser. Where are your facts? And I am not talking Spec Ops.

Gun Slinger
July 8, 2009, 10:56 PM
Gun Slinger, that is the exact point I was trying to make.


Happy to help. :)

Lasers tend to become "crutches" for most. Not saying that they don't have place in the use of handguns for defensive/offensive purposes, but those uses are rather limited ones.

21bubba
July 8, 2009, 11:21 PM
Real mags. Look up laser applications military on wikipedia,and then get back to us.

Mags
July 8, 2009, 11:24 PM
Wikipedia? I am in the real life military not the "internet military" jeez some guys believe whatever a web page tells em. You know wikipedia doesnt check their facts they go by user input. And at that note I'm done can't reason with some people especially those that don't believe in real life experiences.

21bubba
July 8, 2009, 11:32 PM
Gunslinger, If laser sights are "crutches" Then nite sights, flashlights,prescription glasses and using two hands to fire a "hand gun" must be crutches also.

AKElroy
July 8, 2009, 11:34 PM
I did not vote because I am needing another catagory; That is, it depends on the gun & who is carrying it. My wife carries an LCP, and they have useless sights. A laser on a weapon intended for close range point shooting definately benefits from a laser, particularly for a shooter that lacks the rounds downrange of many of us veterans. Yes, anyone carrying should shoot A LOT. That said, I suspect that as in my family it is simply not reality for many of our spouses & loved ones. I want my wife to carry, and she is simply not ever going to practice as often or with the same desire that I do & I need for her to have every advantage.

21bubba
July 8, 2009, 11:36 PM
Real mags That's what i thought, facts contrary to your own experience have to be bull****, right?

Gun Slinger
July 8, 2009, 11:53 PM
Gunslinger, If laser sights are "crutches" Then nite sights, flashlights,prescription glasses and using two hands to fire a "hand gun" must be crutches also.

bubba-

You can quote me "out of context" (partial quote) all you want, but that doesn't mean the conclusion that you've arrived at is an accurate or reasonable one.

You are also welcome to your uninformed opinion, but don't forget that it is all that it is.

:cool:

Besides, it looks like you are just here for an argument. If so, go away.

21bubba
July 9, 2009, 12:03 AM
Not a argument, i prefer "spirited discussion".
You yourself are also welcome to your uninformed opinion.
Funny that you would use the word "accurate" in a discussion about sights

Gun Slinger
July 9, 2009, 12:05 AM
What I said above.

21bubba
July 9, 2009, 12:12 AM
And good nite to you sir.

divemedic
July 9, 2009, 07:05 AM
Gunslinger and Real Mags-

Being a LEO or in the military does not make you an expert, and dos not make others "uninformed." Simply saying that you were never issued laser does not mean a laser is useless. The military issues equipment or does not issue equipment based on a number of factors, an many of those factors have no commonality with the situations that a civilian will find himself in.

After all, a one on one engagement in my home is a different situation requiring different tactics from a platoon sized firefight in a Falluja alleyway. Not only that, but if we were to think that the military always issues the best equipment, then that must mean that the Beretta 92 is a better handgun than a 1911, that ball is better than hollowpoints, and I should trade my pickup in for a HMMWV.

testosterone
July 9, 2009, 08:51 AM
I only recently after 30 years of shooting shot a gun with a laser on it.

I guess its the old adage, you revert to whatever you do. If you shoot with your laser exclusively and intensively, it is a fantastic tool.

I think if you mix, shoot irons and lasers, but neither with great focus, when the "moment of truth" comes, I can easily see how you'd do neither, or your brain would take a turd trying to figure out whether to focus on the front sight or focus on the dot.

possum
July 9, 2009, 09:31 AM
i am in the militrary, the US Army Infantry, i am a squad leader, i have personally seen crimson trace lasers on m9's. also I am issued a peq-15 which has both visable and IR lasers.

texas bulldog
July 9, 2009, 09:55 AM
i certainly don't think they're a "must-have" item, but i would like to add one to my primary HD gun and maybe a carry gun or two. the crimson trace lasers are pretty slick, and i'll take every advantage i can in a gun fight. i just wish they would make a bobtail version of their 1911 grips.

swagner89
July 9, 2009, 10:55 AM
Anybody tried laser on a pistol grip shotgun?

dom1104
July 9, 2009, 11:06 AM
I think people should only vote if they own a pair of CTGs.

the laser in the crimson trace grip is SO much better than a glock rod laser, or anything clumsy that clips onto a rail


if I had to decide between any other laser brand, and no laser at all, I would save my money.

But I also think people shouldnt judge lasers by airsoft quality chinese ripoffs.

There are lasers, and then there are LASERS. it has to do with all kinds technical stuff i dont understand, but the CT laser is bright and orange and all the others are tiny and blah.

The CT is also rather large dot, which helps.

Gun Slinger
July 9, 2009, 12:58 PM
Gunslinger and Real Mags-

Being a LEO or in the military does not make you an expert, and dos not make others "uninformed."

I never said that I was an expert. I am however, experienced in their application and use as opposed to someone who has not been so trained and employed, therefore my opinion is the "more informed" of the two, like it or not.


Simply saying that you were never issued laser does not mean a laser is useless. The military issues equipment or does not issue equipment based on a number of factors, an many of those factors have no commonality with the situations that a civilian will find himself in.


I never said anything of the sort. You have no idea what equipment I was issued and trained upon as a condition of my employment in LE.


After all, a one on one engagement in my home is a different situation requiring different tactics from a platoon sized firefight in a Falluja alleyway. Not only that, but if we were to think that the military always issues the best equipment, then that must mean that the Beretta 92 is a better handgun than a 1911, that ball is better than hollowpoints, and I should trade my pickup in for a HMMWV.

Rarely (probably never) do homeowners encounter massive, heavily equipped opposing forces, but they are sometimes required to engage (trespassers/burglars) them at night.

As I said above: I am not a big fan of hanging lights (or other "tacti-cool" devices) off of a gun (pistol, shotgun or rifle) since they tend become "bullet magnets" if "light discipline" is not followed.

Many who use lasers also tend to develop some "really bad habits" and become too reliant on them. Iron sights never lose battery power.

I've never said that they (weapon mounted lasers) are completely unacceptable or without any legitimate use. To act and respond as if I have is simply disingenuous and an attempt to start an argument where none need occur.

mljdeckard
July 9, 2009, 08:02 PM
And 21 Bubba: YES. Those other items are extras that you must prepared to work without. Your glasses might be knocked off. You might not have two hands to draw a gun AND a flashlight. I always insist on night sights, but there could be weird lighting conditions which make one sight more visible than the other, and difficult to track in a fight. You must learn point shooting as well. You must assume that EVERY piece of your equipment and plan will fail.

inSight-NEO
July 9, 2009, 10:03 PM
While I can see their usefulness, Im hesitant to classify them as "needed" or "important." Im willing to bet that many individuals have successfully defended their homes prior to lasers being "en vogue."

Can they be an advantage? Certainly. But, are they necessary? I believe not.

It is entirely possible that one could become far too dependent upon a laser device vs. spending the necessary time becoming proficient with iron sights alone. Also, depending upon which laser device you use, you could either A: accidentally (or even purposefully) engage such a device when it may be inappropriate to do so or B: not be able to engage it at all (while under extreme stress) when needed.

Now, the crimson trace grips are a nice idea as they are easily engaged. But, I would think that this "usefulness" could contribute to unwarranted/accidental activation if one is not careful. Other devices, such as those activated by a switch (picatinny mounted lights), may be hard to activate during a highly stressful HD encounter (sounds impossible...but, you would probably be amazed at how such an encounter could render mountains out of molehills).

Also, if one trains with a laser on a regular basis, he/she may be more inclined to not consider their weapon "ready" until the laser has been activated...thus, eating up precious seconds during a violent HD encounter or again, run the risk of keeping the laser device "hot" when it may not be prudent to do so.

Again, I like the idea of a laser...I have one myself. But, after further consideration, I have personally chosen to go without. The laser device I save for training purposes only.

If I were to mount my laser device, I would consider it a "last resort" method at best, when it comes to HD. But, to be honest, I do sometimes struggle with whether or not to permanently implement a laser device...same goes for a weapon mounted light. For now though, its a gun, tritium sights and a handheld flashlight.

Of course, there is always the consideration of what a jury may/may not think about such a device.

21bubba
July 9, 2009, 10:58 PM
Look all i've meant is that they work for me. You know the whole over fifty vision thing.
The biggest problem with the haters is their refusal to aacknowledge the improvement that lasers can make in one's ability to improve shot placement.And isn't that the golden rule of a shooting situation?

inSight-NEO
July 9, 2009, 11:09 PM
Look all i've meant is that they work for me. You know the whole over fifty vision thing.
The biggest problem with the haters is their refusal to aacknowledge the improvement that lasers can make in one's ability to improve shot placement.

If it works for you...good deal. Again, I dont hate lasers and certainly understand their usefulness. Im merely saying that I do not consider them a "necessity" when it comes to HD.

Frankly, Im just worried about becoming too reliant upon them or again, what a jury might think about such a device.

21bubba
July 9, 2009, 11:14 PM
Why be worried about becoming too reliant on them?

inSight-NEO
July 10, 2009, 12:41 AM
Why be worried about becoming too reliant on them?

Well, if one were so inclined they may start thinking "hey, this laser thing is cool...I dont even really need to aim (in the traditional sense)" and thus, neglect to develop any real "core" shooting skills which, lets face it, would be far more useful in the long run.

I mean, I would love to have a chauffeur in order to make getting around town a bit easier, but Id prefer to learn how to drive well first. ;)

Regardless, lasers are useful I will admit...I have absolutely nothing against their use. I guess I just dont want to feel as if I am dependent upon such a device in order to be able to effectively defend myself, my family or my home.

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