[bobotech]

...how can you tell what they look like? And what calibers did they come in?

I recently got some 45-70 that has UMC headstamps and they look slightly odd. Could they be balloon head?

I would love to see some good pictures showing the differences between the two.

[Sport45]

I'd really be surprised if your UMC brass is balloon head. Centerfire balloon head cartridges haven't been made since the black powder days.

Does the rim look anything like that on a modern balloon head cartridge, like a .22lr?

It's easy enough to see in a .45-70 so take a look in the case at the flash hole. If the metal is flat or dished out to the side of the case it's modern brass. If there's a "donut" of raised metal around the flash hole it may be a balloon head. If you really want to know just take a hacksaw and split one open.

[LightningMan]

See the difference
here---> http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/training/firearms-training/module03/fir_m03_t06_02_e.htm

[MMCSRET]

I have a large # of UMC 44 Special balloon head cases, so its quite possible to see them in other calibers and the 44 Special is more than 30 years younger than the 45-70.

[bobotech]

The reason why I suspect these cases is because they have an odd rounded edge to the rim. They aren't flat along the edge, they are rounded. The primers in a few are odd too, they are gold round primers. They don't look like modern primers at all.

Will they be safe for lever action starting loads if they are balloon head?

They are loaded up already. I got a batch of 30 of them and yanked the bullets, and recharged them with IMR 4198. I loaded them up with medium Trapdoor loads for 385 and 405 grain lead bullets.

[rcmodel]

The problem with using the old cases is, they are probably primed with corrosive mercuric primers of the day.

If you shoot them, the corrosive primer mix will require a through cleaning of your rifle to avoid rust.

And the cases will too.
Unless you wash them in hot soap & water to get the mercury residue out soon after firing them, they will soon become brittle & break.

And ballon-head cases that break are far more dangerious then solid head cases that break.

rc

[bobotech]

Here is a picture of the case head. I don't have macro on my iPhone so I can't take a good closeup.

http://barney.gonzaga.edu/~snyder/45-70.jpg

[rcmodel]

It's not the outside that matters, it's the inside.

Look at the link LightningMan posted in #3.

You will need to get one empty either by pulling a bullet or shooting one so you can look inside.
I would prefer pulling a bullet, for the reasons I mentioned about cleaning.

rc

[fatelk]

I've used quite a few old balloon head cases, light loads ONLY.

With the UMC headstamp, I would say they are most likely balloon head. I have a few UMC 45-70 cases and they are balloon head.

Balloon head brass was made well into the smokeless powder era. I did some research on it a while back because I had some and was curious. Apparantly there have been different types over the decades, but at least some balloon head brass was produced as late as 1952. I have in front of me right now a balloon head 45-70 case with the headstamp WCC 52 45 M32 (for a line throwing gun).

As to primers, I found an interesting old thread about corrosive primer composition. Apparantly mercury has seen little use since the 1890's. The mercury would attack and weaken the brass. It's corrosive replacement, potassium chlorate, is OK on the brass, but the residue in your gun atracts moisture, causing rust.

Most of the ammo companies switched to non-corrosive primers in the 20's, and the U.S. military switched in the 50's. A knowlegable collector could probably tell you based on headstamp whether yours are likely to be corrosively primed or not.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=127368

[bobotech]

I feel kinda dumb. I pulled the bullets already once and recharged them. LOL No biggie. I will pull one tonight and take a look inside.

[The Bushmaster]

Bobotech. I see your cat is trying to tell its "staff" to "Quit foolin around and pet me"...

[fguffey]

"And the cases will too" need to be cleaned.

The infinity of mercury to brass, the case is too brittle before the bullet leaves the barrel, do not reload, it is said in the old days the inside of the case was tinned to prevent the case from becoming brittle, if it was to be reloaded.

F. Guffey

[bobotech]

Here is a picture of the insides:
http://barney.gonzaga.edu/~snyder/case2.jpg

[rcmodel]

Yep!
Ballon-head alright!

rc

[bobotech]

So they are safe for trapdoor loads and I have to clean the snot out of them after shooting?

[rcmodel]

Safe for trap-door loads - Yes.

Clean? - Did they have black powder or smokeless powder in them?

If smokeless, you probably don't need to clean the snot out of the cases.
But I would still suspect corrosive primers and you might want to clean the rifle real well.

It might be simpler to just de-prime & re-prime them with new primers and not have to worry about it.

rc