[J.BELLINO]

We hear so much lately about KB's with Glock 40 cal. lately that I was wondering if this problem was occuring at all in any of the other major manufactures auto pistols of the same caliber? I am interested in actual documented cases only. Anybody out there have any info to contribute?
Thanks

[M58]

How many?

[J.BELLINO]

M58....How many what? I just want to know what other major brands are experiencing this problem with factory ammo.

[1badmagnum]

unsupported chamber (http://greent.com/40Page/general/kb.htm)

creating a 40 caliber weapon from a 9mm without making it stronger.
MOST companies redesigned guns from the ground up except for cheapskate gaston.

[mete]

The unsupported chamber has been redesigned to give more though not complete support. Some of the Kbooms are also caused by using lead bullets and not cleaning thouroughly. The lead build-up in the barrel prevents the round from seating all the way - therefore more unsupported case. Also reloads at too high pressure . Also reloads where the bullet is set too deep thereby raising pressures. Chambering a round a number of times can push the bullet into the case - if the bullet is pushed back .10" the pressure will DOUBLE ! This is also a problem with the 357sig.

[J.BELLINO]

Hey guys, I know the causes as you all have stated but several Glocks have KB'ed with factory jacketed ammo.........Have other major brands such as H&K, Sig,Berretta, S&W experienced this KB problem with factory jacketed ammo.....no one seems to be able to answer this one simple question.

[M58]

See, you already knew the answer.
Get a revolver.

[mete]

I'll repeat - if a F ACTORY round is chambered a number of times the bullet will be set back and pressures rise greatly.

[Arub]

A couple of weeks ago, over on the Ruger Forum, one of the posters reported having a KB with his P944. He did say that it was a reload and may have been over charged. Other replies alleged that "it had to be used Glock brass" that caused the KB, not the possible over charge.

[rappa]

Personally, I have not experienced a KB in my P229 .40. I've had it for just over a year and am well over 2K rounds. I've never shot reloads. I cycle my ammo fairly regularly. I've only shot 135gr, 165gr and 180gr, Fed HydraShok, Gold Dots, WIN Val pack, Fiocchi, PMC. I don't shoot +P. I clean it regularly. Sorry, no graphic KB story here. :D

[M58]

If you must have a jam-o-matic, get a Sig!

[Tamara]

A few USP's detonated not too long back. Have reliable word of mouth from a major LE Distributor that a bad lot of Speer Gold Dots took out three federale P-229's about a year and a half or two years, ago. The agency, which will remain unnamed, sent some guys from their state office to pick up a bunch of 165gr GS until the issue got sorted out.

[45R]

If you must have a jam-o-matic, get a Sig!

:scrutiny: Tin Foil Hat on :scrutiny:

I'll repeat - if a F ACTORY round is chambered a number of times the bullet will be set back and pressures rise greatly.

I couldnt agree enough!!!

Do a search on HS2000talk.com and go back to around Sept or Oct of last year and there will be some nice pictures of bullet setback from a .40SW round that was cycled numerous times.

Bullet setback is another factor that can get you killed to death...that and a "jam-o-matic Sig"

[MrMunster]

Hmm...

I guess I must be the luckiest Glock owner out there. I've fired upwards of 10k rounds through my 40 cal Glocks in the last 2 years and they didn't explode.

I did, however, see a guy blow up his brand new Sig using UMC ammo back in Feb. So this problem is not isolated to lead reloads in Glocks.

The .40 is a high pressure round that, some would say, was hastily designed by S&W.

[TheFederalistWeasel]

The agency, which will remain unnamed...


Why?
:confused:

[Sean Smith]

http://markco.gunsnet.net/glockKB.html

I expect we will see .40 S&W handguns have intermittent case failures pretty much forever. It is inherent in the design... the cartridge runs at nearly 10mm pressures (35,000 vs 37,500 psi) , but has a much weaker case design. With less internal volume and generally loaded faster powders it is not nearly as tolerant of minor mistakes (e.g. bullet setback, too-short OAL, overcharge, etc.) as 10mm Auto is, especially with heavier bullets.

[Lord Grey Boots]

Wasn't there a comparison done a while ago, and folks found that ALL the .40 S&W pistols had the same amount of chamber support as the Glock models?

[bountyhunter]

Wasn't there a comparison done a while ago, and folks found that ALL the .40 S&W pistols had the same amount of chamber support as the Glock models?

HUHHHHH? I've got two 1911's in .40 and they have 100% supported chambers. I buy reloads from a guy who buys once-fired cop brass and you can the see the little bulge near the rim from where the Glock barrel let it pooch out. If I owned a Glock I would not shoot reload .40.

[Brigrat]

Arub
Member

Registered: Dec 2002
Location: Southeast Alabama
Posts: 95
A couple of weeks ago, over on the Ruger Forum, one of the posters reported having a KB with his P944. He did say that it was a reload and may have been over charged. Other replies alleged that "it had to be used Glock brass" that caused the KB, not the possible over charge.



Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

October 23rd, 2003 02:58 AM


I was the one on the Ruger Forum that first mentioned Glock Brass. After my post, you will find that the shooter with the Ruger KB did in fact use Glock brass taken of the LE Range. I only mentioned this, because I have three reports on my desk right now dating back 2 years that were initiated by the Nuclear Energy Institue warning about KB's that HAVE occured on glocks at Nuclear Plants, and warning about reloading Glock brass. Not to mention, there is an individual inmy officer right now, that had his Glock 23 Blow with Factory new ammo. Glock was good to him, and did repair his weapon at no charge, but he did get rid of it immediately. Again, I do carry a G22 at work sometimes, and I do feel that it is safe, but my experience tells me that they do seem more likely to KB, than most other pistols in the same caliber. I am sure some will disagree with me, but hey, I am only reporting what I have seen. For the record, the NEI, and INPO reports that I have, were all written in conjunction with Glock Factory Representatives. I am working on getting permition from the above mentioned organizations to reprint there reports, for general consumption, but right now they are still clasified. I am however; allowed to comment on them, just not reproduce them.

For those interested in reading the link, here it is
http://www.rugerforum.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/003105.html

[355sigfan]

MOST companies redesigned guns from the ground up except for cheapskate gaston.
END

Thats false the only 40sw's designed as 40sw's from the ground up were the Sig 229 and the HK USP. All others are converted 9mm's. Yes GLocks KB more but their are more GLocks out there than all other brands. I know sigs 40's Beretta 40's and one HK 40 to kb. Its more of a problem with the cartridge although some designes are less tolerant to bad ammo than others due to low case support. This is part of the reason I prefer the 357 sig to the 40sw. Would I hesitate to carry a 40sw no. But I would prefer a gun in 357 sig, 9mm or 45 acp first.
Pat

[J.BELLINO]

355SIGFAN,

Thats more the type of ansewer that I was looking for when I started this thread.

Thanks,
Jim

[TheFederalistWeasel]

It’s amazing to me

The shear number of people who post here, at (now closed) The Firing Line and Glock Talk, etc… that have either observed first hand or have it on good faith from close associates who have witnessed like, the number of KaBooms.

I would like to add up all those reported KB’s, which most Glockers say are actually rare, but somehow occur with phenomenal regularity in everything from Kel-Tec’s to Desert Eagles.

[Tamara]

When you work at a place where people bring busted guns to be fixed, you get to see a lot of busted guns. ;)

[Kentucky Rifle]

In that pic of the Sig 239 you posted.
I assume that the front lever is a slide lock, the middle lever is a decocker, but what is the rear lever for please? (Doesn't look like a safety.) For some strange reason, I don't own any Sigs yet. However, I've been looking at a P232, and I LIKE the photos of the P239--LOTS! I don't own a 9MM yet either and it seems to me that the P239 in 9MM would be just great.
A friend of mine just purchased a new P230 in .32ACP. It goes in her concealment purse really well...flat as a pancake. There was a thread a few days ago which said that good polishing = good bluing. Well, this little Sig is slick as a button. The bluing is gorgeous! It's a deep "black/blue" color. By the way, .32ACP is fine for her. She practices with Gold Dots and I gave her a full mag of RBCD's for carry.

KR

[usp_fan]

I experienced a Glock 22 kB! using 155 grn lead reloads over a mild dose of Win. 231 after only about 25 rounds through a clean barrel.

Glock was willing to sell me a replacement gun at what they called factory cost. I immediately sold it and pick up an H&K uspc in .40.

I also recall Dean Speir reporting early in the H&K usp's life, several kB's with full sized usp's and Fedral factory ammo. Original fedral cases we known to be weaker through the base.

Just as a personal note: Glock treated me respectfully and I appreciated the open and direct communication with the Smyrna warantee folks. However, I do believe this failure was a direct result of a poor design and not a reloading error. Had I kept my original USP, my shooting partner wouldn't have had to dodge my extractor as it exited the slide at high velocity.

I love the Glock platform, but I will never go back to one in .40.

--usp_fan

[rappa]

KentuckyRifle,
Going from muzzle to rear sight, the first lever is the takedown lever, the next one is decocker, the last one is slide stop.

[M58]

Thanks, rappa!

That Sig 239 has never had a problem, except the previous owner buggered the grip screws! I have replaced them with the hex type; looks great.

Started as a .40; replaced barrel to .357 Sig; would never own a .40 Glock.
:what:

[DMK]

Thats false the only 40sw's designed as 40sw's from the ground up were the Sig 229 and the HK USP. All others are converted 9mm's. There was never a 9mm version of the CZ-40B either.

[mec]

I've seen a demolished sig-pro in .357 sig. The case was ruptured ahead of the case head and the magazine blown out in the usual fashion. Side of frame below the slide was fractured in several places. Shooter claimed it was a speer factory load.

Also saw a factory 10mm case that had been fired in a Glock. Badly bulged right above the feed-ramp which glock said had been cut at an improper angle and depth. A friend tried converting a smit 59 from 9mm to .38 super with the case rupturing and venting into the mag well. This shattered the grip panels and dropped the magazine.

One variable is fairly constant- a high pressure round. The high pressure rounds appear more likely to unlatch cases than more moderate ones. Apparently, 9mm - which has fairly high pressure is less likely than some of the others to have the problem-unless the bullet is deep seated.

[Preacherman]

I posted the following in this thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?threadid=46480), with reference to the .40 S&W, but it fits here as well:I think the biggest single contributing factor to the infamous "Glock kB!" rumors is bullet setback. I've found this with virtually every brand and bullet weight of JHP that I've tried. Since the round is operating at high pressure anyway, any degree of bullet setback will increase operating pressures to the dangerous level in very short order. I don't know if the ammo manufacturers deliberately put a light crimp on .40 S&W rounds because of the pressure problem, but I've noticed all of their ammo, without exception, will show bullet setback after five to ten cycles of a round through the action.

My solution? I don't chamber my carry loads more than two or three times - after that, it's off to the range bin with them for my next practice session. And I've never had a kB! yet...

I might add that since discovering this issue with the .40 S&W, I've started checking out other calibers and cartridges much, much more carefully. I've not found many problems with 9mm loads, but in .45 ACP, many of the wider-mouthed hollowpoints also show signs of bullet setback after a few cycles of the action. Fortunately, the .45 is a low-pressure round, so the consequences of minor setback are seldom problematic: however, I now apply the same rule to this cartridge as I do to .40 S&W, and relegate my carry loads to the practice box after two or three times through the action.

[355sigfan]

There was never a 9mm version of the CZ-40B either.
END

I may be mistaken but I believe this gun is simply a slightly beefed up CZ75 that was originally a 9mm. But CZ's are not my area of expertise.
Pat

[yayarx7]

I thought the cz40 was a newish design in a stillborn colt/cz project.

Not saying it aint cz75 based. just saying it was designed for 40S&W

[Greg Bell]

Glock=Ka freakin Blewey :cuss: :banghead: :what: :neener: :barf:

[jc2]

Actually, I think PAT is a a little off-base in both in both his posts (or at least a little misleading).

The original S&W offering (4006) started a redesigned 1006 (10mm) not as a 5906 so the 4006 isn't a "converted 9mm" but rather a converted 10mm.

The Steyr M40 was designed from the ground up as a .40 S&W--it is not a "converted 9mm." a "converted 9mm."

The SIG P239 was designed to be .40 S&W/357 SIG and is a not a "converted 9mm" (even though it was initially released in 9x19).

The Browning .40 S&W Hi-Power represents an almost total redesign of the 9x19 Hi-Power and certainly doesn't qualify as a "converted 9mm."

The Glock 22/23 (and maybe the early Beretta 96s) is the only .40 S&W in general usage really qualifies as a "converted 9mm." Gaston Glock, in an effort to capture the US LE market, rushed the.40 S&W (G22) into production (temporarily halting his 10mm/.45 ACP--the G20/G21 design efforts). He basically took the G17, tossed a .40 S&W barrel, changed the breechface and called it a .40 S&W (G22). It is truly (and almost literally) a "converted 9mm."

[tex_n_cal]

I think the biggest single contributing factor to the infamous "Glock kB!" rumors is bullet setback. I've found this with virtually every brand and bullet weight of JHP that I've tried. Since the round is operating at high pressure anyway, any degree of bullet setback will increase operating pressures to the dangerous level in very short order. I don't know if the ammo manufacturers deliberately put a light crimp on .40 S&W rounds because of the pressure problem, but I've noticed all of their ammo, without exception, will show bullet setback after five to ten cycles of a round through the action.

My solution...and yes I have reloaded for a Glock M22, did so successfully for a couple years before selling it...USE A SMALLER EXPANDER PLUG!

(excuse the shouting:) It's a pet peeve )

The expander plug on most reloading dies are too big - you should have a expander that is no more than .395", to firmly hold a .400 dia bullet. I turned mine down to .392, for the .40, 10mm, & .400 Corbon. This step, combined with a proper taper crimp, will firmly load bullets into cases, and prevent setback. No crimp by itself can prevent bullet setback!

[Tamara]

The original S&W offering (4006) started a redesigned 1006 (10mm) not as a 5906 so the 4006 isn't a "converted 9mm" but rather a converted 10mm.

This statement makes me wonder if you've ever held a 4006 and a 1006. The 4006 is most definitely based on the 59-series and is in no way related to the single-stack large-frame 1006. Remember, one of the design goals of the cartridge was to keep its OAL short enough that it could be chambered in existing 9mm platforms with minimal alterations.

The Browning .40 S&W Hi-Power represents an almost total redesign of the 9x19 Hi-Power and certainly doesn't qualify as a "converted 9mm."

Please enumerate the changes for us, as its never struck me as a "total redesign."

[Sarge]

on this issue is unnecessary, and mec pretty well hit the nail on the head.

The .40 is a high-pressure round; there is no other way to get near-10mm performance from a smaller case.

Why a smaller case? To fit into 9mm-size guns, that's why.

Why unsupported chambers? To provide a more gentle slop to the feed ramp, so the fat little .40's would ease up through the 9mm staircase with greater reliability.

So you have a high-pressure round, which crowds the limits of case strength. The unsupported chamber compounds this problem. When Murphy's Law takes over for a day, the case blows. When this happens in a plastic frame, the results are predictable.

For those who howl "It's the ammo", I'd have to say you're at least partly correct. The round itself is so hot that it leaves a very thin safety margin in the guns y'all like to shoot it in. For those who howl "It's the lead", I can only laugh. Some of us have been loading 200 grain lead-bullet, 1050 fps loads in .45 ACP for longer than you've been alive. We have pushed 255 SWC's about as fast as your little .40 will push a 180.

No "boomies". Not a single one.

And no, the 1006/4506 are NOT typical 9/.40-size guns. They are both designed around the longer cartridge cases of the .45 & 10mm.

Internal ballistics is not magic. If you wanna push a heavy bullet at low pressures, the case has to get bigger- either in bore or length. The .40 was an effort to crowd the absolutes of ballistic reality. When everything is perfect, it does a fine job of accomplishing its intended mission. When one little thing goes wrong, reality takes over and you've got a KaBoom.

[Tamara]

Some of us have been loading 200 grain lead-bullet, 1050 fps loads in .45 ACP for longer than you've been alive.

...and shooting them through barrels w/conventional land & groove rifling. :)

[wingman]

So you have a high-pressure round, which crowds the limits of case strength. The unsupported chamber compounds this problem. When Murphy's Law takes over for a day, the case blows. When this happens in a plastic frame, the results are predictable.

While I load for the 40 and enjoy shooting it in my cz40b it is not my favorite
cartridge as in the above quote you have a small case, large bullet, too much
powder and all that pressure has to exit some where. Like the 220 swift of
years past I believe in time the 40 will be "set aside" to a few reloaders.

Another note with the pressure comes increased wear in the firearm, I have
seen some 40's rattle like gravel in a tin can after 4000 rounds of factory
loads.

The only thing I would add use "common sense" with the 40, watch for set
back, maintain firearm in top condition, if you reload no need to go with
max loads.(Mild loads are super accuarate in the cz40b) Also many will disagree
but stay away from the larger bullets, I prefer the 155gr no bigger.

[Black Snowman]

I have a Glock 24P (1st gen) and I really cut my teeth reloading the .40 S&W for it. If anyone should have had a kB! it would be me. But I haven't. I have fed it over 6000 rounds and in my early reloading days many of them were badly over pressured and and in over-used bulged cases.

I think what saved me was my exclusive use of coated and jacketed bullets, always loading them to max OAL, light powder charges, and a Lee carbide crimp die. I got some pretty good bulges with 180 grain Rainers, a light charge of Universal and (the oops) magnum primers. Just because you run out of standard doesn't mean you can substitue :uhoh: I'm much more educated in my reloading now :D

My current recipe is 165 gr Star FMJ TC over 5.5gr of Universal and a CCI small pistol primer. Good accuracy and consistancy but when I'm out of 165 gr I'm going to switch to the 155 gr for the greatest pressure margin and due to reports of better accuracy.

[Sarge]

Tamster, you are absolutely correct. I dunno what them folks were thinking with that polygonal stuff. My actual opinion of that whole subject is that if Glock had put as much design effort into the barrel as they did the rest of the gun, they might really have had something there! They could have fixed the grip angle while they were at it... I guess the Luger's ghost still haunts certain parts of Europe.

To those of you who mentioned using the lighter bullets in the .40, I couldn't agree more. The Golden Saber 165 seems about perfect for defense, and there are plenty of good bullets in this weight for those who reload. I'd certainly recommend staying well under max with reloads using range brass in any bullet weight- and keeping the OAL at max length, with a good taper crimp.

I have probably shot the Beretta 96 more than any other .40, and the examples I have fired were plenty accurate with the 165's.

[Black Snowman]

I actually like the grip angle and poly rifling so :p
They were 2 of the things that attracted me to the gun. I do almost all my pistol shooting indoors and wanted to keep lead to a minimum and the only lead loads I've made were because my Dad bought the bullets, and those all went in .38 and .44 specials. Nosir, not a big fan of lead ;)

Only thing I didn't like about mine were the sights. Can't stand the glock sights. After replacing those I'm perfectly happy with it. Of course I've done a couple of other unnessisary improvements, namely polished the transfer bar at the contact points and installed an extended slide catch to speed up locking the action open. The 24 already came with the 3.5 lbs trigger and extended mag release which are both nice features for me.

[don10m]

c

[Mal H]

don10m, Unless my eyes fail me, the pistol in the first attachment says ".45 Auto". So why dredge up a 1 1/2 year old thread on .40 S&W kabooms to post this? Your verbage "c" doesn't explain much.

[Clean97GTI]

Holy back from the dead thread batman!!! This things over a year old.

Thats false the only 40sw's designed as 40sw's from the ground up were the Sig 229 and the HK USP.

The FN Forty-Nine was built from the ground up as a .40cal weapon. They just happened to chamber it in 9mm first.
Just an FYI.

[Krag]

I shoot with a team where every member has used .40 caliber Glocks (G22, 35 and 24) for over a decade. I'm talking about many 10,000s of rounds of Major Power .40 reloads. No KBs, no problems whatsoever in that time.

I only know of two Glock KBs and both were with lead reloads. In fact the only other KB I personally know of was with a STI hicap Limited pistol. I mean total wipe out. The shooter wasn't hurt but he sure cried a lot when he thought how much that STI had cost him.

[Glocker]

1st. is a take down lever 2nd. is a de-cock 3rd. is a slide lock.

[Glocker]

after i posted the last thread i seen where someone already beat me to it and answered kentucky rifle question, my bad :) i have a glock g-22 and a springfield xd-40 and have fired many round and have never had any problems.

[Bopleo]

Thats false the only 40sw's designed as 40sw's from the ground up were the Sig 229 and the HK USP.

So was the star, firestar in .40 cal. This is a very solid and beefy gun.

[john l]

Some of you guys are flat-out crazy. It bothers me that some of you are not being intellectually honest by hating Glocks. Fine, hate Glock. Just realize that the more you whine about Glock the more impotent and rediculous you sound.

1) Any time you have a pistol that started out as a 9mm and then the company made one in 40, it is a copy. It is cosmetically the same. That doesn't make it a bad thing. obviously it is working........
Don't try to sheet on Glock about not building a 40 from scratch. Come on, all companies just rechambered and changed what they needed to to make a new caliber fit. (from their 9mms to a new 40)

2) If any of you slobbering retards out there care, then you will notice an additional pin in the 40 caliber Glocks. This additional pin is not present in any of the 9mm Glocks. So much for just slapping a 40 barrel in a 9mm Glock.

3). Bullets moving back and creating more pressure is a problem with ALL Pistol loads. Not just 40s. Read Lyman's reloading book and you will see this warning on multiple pistol rounds, including 9mm. I personally have had Speer 45ACP Lawman loads do this on as few as ONE loading/unloading. I have never, never seen this happen with Federal Hydrashock ammo. That's why I carry it. ( and have been for 8 years) I have loaded and reloaded the same HD round, and the crimp on the Hydras is outstanding. I suggest that you do not shoot the 45s with deep seated bullets, either.

4) I have personally shot over 10,000 rounds of my own reloaded 40. No problems whatsoever. I attribute it to this: I load my reloads to about 950 fps with a 155 gr bullet. My overall length for a Flatpoint 155 is 1.140" So it is intentionally longer that the reloading books say so. That keeps the pressure down. I have no casebulge whatsoever. I keep 155 Hydras in the gun for HD. I agree that the 40 is usually loaded from the Factories nearing the envelope of its ballistic and pressure limit. Results: a 155 grain 40 cal going 1200fps bullet performs like a 357 magnum round. 96% one-shot stops in a fairly small and light package. Average, yes average 40 caliber ammo has more foot pounds of energy than almost all the 45 ACP rounds- in a smaller and usually lighter package.

5) I personally find no use for the 357 sig round and the abomination of the decade: the 45GAP. I also dislike the new 17 cal rifle rounds and the 22 mag rounds.. I can't stand a lot of (to me) wierd calibers and don't understand the attraction that others have to them. But that is fine. If I had a friend or family member that expressed interest in any of these, then I would tell them, " great. go for it. let me shoot your ammo, we'll have fun." Look, people, obviously there is no caliber out there that is so dangerous that the companies stop making it ( no gyrojet comments, please.) So if you don't like something, just try to be objective and realize that in the case that we are talking about, the 40 calibers are the darling of the law-enforcement world and neaner-neaner, the vast majority of them are Glocks. thank god.
john l

[cxm]

If you follow the reports of kBs, Glock is almost always the culprit... whats more, the result is usually a damaged or trashed gun.

I have had 2 kBs. Both in the same BHP 40. One was with factory ammo... one with a reload. The time with reloads didn't do any damage... but left the case body in the chamber and shut the pistol down till I could pull it out. The second was with a factory round... it blew the extractor off... no other damage. The worst result was I didn't do very well in a IDPA match (or maybe I should say worse than normal) and had to replace an extractor. I attribute the lack of damage to the all steel construction of the BHP vis-a-vis the plastic guns.

I have watched kBs with some interest. I have concluded the Glock design lends it's self to kBs for the reasons others have listed. That coupled with the issues with the .40 it's self seem to ensure problems.

My Para Ord P16-40 has a fully supported chamber... and has had no problems at all.

Anyway, that is my conclusion after seeing a kB live and having had two myself.

FWIW

Chuck

----------------------------------------------------------------------
MOST companies redesigned guns from the ground up except for cheapskate gaston.
END

Thats false the only 40sw's designed as 40sw's from the ground up were the Sig 229 and the HK USP. All others are converted 9mm's. Yes GLocks KB more but their are more GLocks out there than all other brands. I know sigs 40's Beretta 40's and one HK 40 to kb. Its more of a problem with the cartridge although some designes are less tolerant to bad ammo than others due to low case support. This is part of the reason I prefer the 357 sig to the 40sw. Would I hesitate to carry a 40sw no. But I would prefer a gun in 357 sig, 9mm or 45 acp first.
Pat
__________________
Police Firearms Instructor.
Urban Rifle Instructor.
Colt M16/AR15 Armorer.
Glock Armorer.

[medmo]

Looking at all of the information published on kb's it does appear as if the 40s&w and Glocks lead the pack in the quantity department. It seems as if the highest percentage of published kb incidents are with Glocks and this caliber.

Does this mean that Glocks are SIGNIFICANTLY more prone to kb than other brands? I don't think anyone could fairly conclude "yes" by only looking at the raw numbers and not crunching some data.

If kb's are somewhat at an even and normal rate with all brands of 40s&W pistols then Glock should have a much higher number of kb's. Glocks own about 3/4's to 2/3's of the LE market and are the sales leader over all other brands commercially. If the kb rate is normal across all of the pistols in this caliber Glock should have 3/4's to 2/3's more number of kb's.

It would be interesting to see some data on the rate of kb's per pistols sold. Example: Xnumber of kb's per 1000 pistols sold by manufacture

Now about that unsupported chamber....

[ny32182]

This is a cross section of .40 vs 10mm brass:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/ny32182/40vs10mm.jpg

Since the 10mm uses a larger primer, there seems to be less material in the web area. I don't understand why people say the .40 brass is weaker.

[TheDutchman]

Since the 10mm uses a larger primer, there seems to be less material in the web area. I don't understand why people say the .40 brass is weaker
Because someone said it was not and now everybody thinks that the .40 cal case is weaker, but you can clearly see that it is not.

[Gixerman1000]

Here is a comparison photo of the 6 o’clock position from my various 40sw barrels each with the same brand of ammo, it goes from least supported chamber (top) to most supported (bottom).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/Gixerman1000/40SWcasesupport.jpg

I am a firm believer that if you use good factory ammo or properly done reloads with brass in good shape, all pistols in 40sw from the top manufactures will hold up just fine with very little risk of a KB and in most cases aside from defective brass and bad luck if a round is over loaded enough to KB in one pistol it is just about as likely KB in any of them.

But for reloaders who try to safely get the most use out of their brass, chamber support will be a little more important as repeated bulging and resizing of brass will reduce it’s integrity enough to be unsafe.

As far as my 2nd Gen G22 goes, in the 1000's or rounds I have put through it I have never had the first problem.

[don10m]

I actually ment to send these picture to another post, but it goes goes to show ANY gun can KB and most have, Sigs are bad about the frame rails cracking, I asked some of the sig fans on a sig forum and they told me that it would be wise to start watching it closely at 50k rounds, we've put more than that through a couple of my glocks.

[Sean Smith]

Because someone said it was not and now everybody thinks that the .40 cal case is weaker, but you can clearly see that it is not.

Brass thickness in every caliber varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. Some .40 S&W brass was modified as a result of cases going boom, Federal being the most notable. Conversely, not all 10mm brass is created equal, either. Finally, case strength is not only a function of thickness, but the type of brass used. So thicker is generally, but not always, equal to better.

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/kb-notes.html

Put another way, try loading your typical .40 S&W case to the pressures you can safely get out of Winchester 10mm brass and see what happens. Just don't try it anywhere near me. :eek:

[The Drew]

Problems with bullet setback causing overpressure can be partially avoided by shooting lower weight bullets, like 165gr or 155gr in .40...

I believe this is one of the biggest reasons that some of the bigger manufacturers have "loaded down" some of the 180gr offerings, as the potential for overpressure is a very thin margin...

[Walt Sherrill]

I thought the cz40 was a newish design in a stillborn colt/cz project.

Not saying it aint cz75 based. just saying it was designed for 40S&W


It was a newish design, but it was (and is) pure CZ-75 in everything but the barrel lockup and grip angle. The barrel has a SIG-like lockup; the .45 97B has a similar barrel.

The 40B slide will fit on a 9mm 75 Frame, but will not fuction.

All of the CZ 40s used 9mm guns as their starting point. But it was a starting point.

CZs are pretty stout weapons, but even so, the full-size 75Bs in .40 have been beefed up a bit. The new compact CZ 40s are all based on the very hefty P-01 frame, which is one of a handful of guns that have successfully passed pretty stringent NATO proof testing.

The Brownings BHP guns in .40 are based on 9mm guns, too, but they, like CZs, have been upgraded to handle the .40 round.

(All of the .40 versions of these guns -- CZs and BHPs -- look like they've been given a very small dose of steroids. Nothing big different about them, but things aren't quite the same.)