Neutral Swiss?


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superpunchy
July 9, 2009, 05:33 AM
What was the last war that Switzerland fought in? Anybody know? What was their main battle rifle in that war?

They did not participate in WWI or WWII... nor any war since then (that I'm aware of), as they always declare themselves "neutral" whenever conflict breaks out. How do they get away with a free pass like that?

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j-easy
July 9, 2009, 05:49 AM
1798 Switzerland was overrun by the french and in 1847 there was a small civil war, fewer than 100 casualties, was over in less than a month. no idea what rifles they had back then

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Switzerland

Kind of Blued
July 9, 2009, 06:11 AM
Here's an interesting read related to Switzerland and guns.

They Didn't Attack Switzerland (http://www.lewrockwell.com/walker/walker32.html)

Shung
July 9, 2009, 06:15 AM
They did not participate in WWI or WWII

We had a couple of fights in WWII, particulary dogfights against the germans in 1940 ... when OUR Bf109E's shot down some of theirs..

How do they get away with a free pass like that?

cause we've got everybody's money ;)


btw, we were a country of warriors, mercenaries. Highly seeked by all european powers..

this tradition ended when we massacrated each others in Italy for 2 different nations..



RIGHT NOW we are ATTACKED by your government which requires one of our bank to infringe Swiss laws about banking secrecy.. I guess that in this economic collapse, every dime is worth attacking.. doesnt matter if some of your state have a much permissive banking system..

TheFallGuy
July 9, 2009, 06:23 AM
it's not a "free pass". They have one of the largest militaries as a percentage of their population in the world. They still have conscription and are well armed. I doubt any Swiss citizen would call it a free pass.

geronimo509
July 9, 2009, 08:04 AM
Sounds like the Swiss are Very smart. small civil war, fewer than 100 casualties, was over in less than a month That's pretty good considering the US and many other countries probably lost 1000 times that. (im sure someone has some figures). I doubt N korea isn't even thinking about them right now. Also, they don't have to worry about civilians being killed in terrorists attacks.

They have one of the largest militaries as a percentage of their population in the world. They still have conscription and are well armed
Si Vis Pacem Parabellum

rduckwor
July 9, 2009, 09:29 AM
The Swiss are one of the most well-prepared peoples in the world. Everyone goes into the military and serves in the "reserves" once done.

Every tunnel thru the Alps is mined and ready should they need to protect their borders.

Their country is one of the most beautiful, clean, and orderly that I have ever had the pleasure to visit. Their people are pleasant and polite.

I would live there in a flash if I needed to do so.

RMD

Jim Watson
July 9, 2009, 09:34 AM
I always liked what Jan Stevenson said about the Swiss arms industry during the Cold War.
The US and USSR would give you guns but they came with a lot of political baggage.
The Swiss just took your money and delivered the goods.

KenWP
July 9, 2009, 09:35 AM
Now why would anybody want to fight in a war if they don't have to. Seems they have the right idea leave us alone and we won't tell anybody where your money is. They seem to come up with a few pretty nifty guns. Helps haveing time to invent them instead of just throwing money around keeping wars going.

eye5600
July 9, 2009, 10:54 AM
I think the neutrality of the Swiss (and Ireland, too?) was tolerated because it was useful. Both sides liked having a place where stuff and people could be stashed. In addition, in war it's useful to have a conduit for messages available for sides that aren't talking to each other, even if only for offering surrender terms, and returning defiant rejections.

zoom6zoom
July 9, 2009, 10:56 AM
Probably a made up story, but one I've always liked:

Before World War I, a German general observing Swiss military maneuvers asked a Swiss militiaman what would the Swiss do if a German army, twice the size of the Swiss militia, invaded. The militiaman responded, “Shoot twice and go home.”

oneounceload
July 9, 2009, 10:59 AM
The Swiss patterned their gov't after our original one - the only difference is that they managed to keep the central gov't small compared to their cantons

Justin
July 9, 2009, 11:04 AM
RIGHT NOW we are ATTACKED by your government which requires one of our bank to infringe Swiss laws about banking secrecy.. I guess that in this economic collapse, every dime is worth attacking.. doesnt matter if some of your state have a much permissive banking system..

Yeah, sorry about that. I didn't vote for the guy.

Shung
July 9, 2009, 11:35 AM
LoL, don't worry, this was more of a joke than a real complaint.. I mean, what UBS did over there was just stupid.

HexHead
July 9, 2009, 12:59 PM
Even Hitler was smart enough not to invade a country were virtually all the citizens were armed.

Tommygunn
July 9, 2009, 01:00 PM
RIGHT NOW we are ATTACKED by your government which requires one of our bank to infringe Swiss laws about banking secrecy.. I guess that in this economic collapse, every dime is worth attacking.. doesnt matter if some of your state have a much permissive banking system

My sincerest apologies. I don't like Obama; I think he's an inexperienced buffoon ... a Chicago "thug" politician, and poses a grave danger to America's future. I should also acknowledge he is harming others too; nations with whom we should be friends.

Dr. Peter Venkman
July 9, 2009, 01:05 PM
Even Hitler was smart enough not to invade a country were virtually all the citizens were armed.

Why would he, given that they were harboring his regime's gold for free? What is the strategic value of capturing Switzerland?

MagnumDweeb
July 9, 2009, 06:29 PM
As I understand there was some discussion by the Nazis about (I think it was called Anschluze, I don't know) adding Switzerland to the Fatherland (some ideal about Aryans and what) like they had with Czech, Austria, and Hungry. It was around the time before the English and French declared war on Germany. The Germans were trying to get their hands on as much as possible without declaring war because to be honest the Germans weren't ready for war, it wasn't till they got the Czechs did they have a solid manufacturing base for arms. They'd only gotten ahead of the curve by preparing for war before anyone else (much like they did in WWI when they had paid the English the patent fee for producing over 50,000 Maxims), while most of the European countries were screaming for peace at any price (that worked out well). Had the Russians had their act better together with having their KVIs and early T-34s in west as opposed to the east, with not having killed so many officers in the purges, better pushed the deployment of the SVT40 and PPSH40, and had a standing arm of professionals other than the NKVD (of course that probably would have invited a later uprising against Stalin) the Russians could have whooped the Germans in the first year of the war.

There was, as the story has been told by unreliable sources, that a German general in World War II (much like the Kaiser did in WWI) threatened taking ten armored divisions into Switzerland to which the Swiss General laughed and said that each man in the militia would line up, fire a few shots, and then be home before supper. Or something to that degree.

Our founding fathers, Henry Clay, Hancock, Jefferson, Franklin, regularly mentioned following the Swiss model for democracy and militia. And to a later degree about neutrality. But thankfully we weren't too neutral about letting the European powers keep messing around in North America and are where we are at (should have taken Mexico when we had the chance). I feel if we had followed the Swiss militia system we wouldn't quite have the serious deficits that we have in our society. There'd be more coherence between cultures, and while we are a heterogenous society we'd hail to a common purpose. Now we are a fractured people in the U.S., the weak outnumber the strong, and amass cowardice to destroy attempts at liberty, our culture is unduly feminized, and those men for whom once this nation was built upon and the lands settled, would be deemed monster, psychopaths, and criminals. "Once they would have hailed me Casear, but now I am but a mad man among sheep" (don't remember exactly where that is from).

But hey, love the Swiss, my deceased uncle left me a Swiss account which is my get to Israel (or former parts of the Yugoslav more likely) cache in case things go sour here in the states. And they keep turning out great guns, love the Sigs and hope to own a 225 one day (after more .44 mags, and 1911s, and snub nose .357s, and etc. etc. etc.). And I want me some K-31s one day, got my Nagants and Mausers a plenty but I gots to have me some K-31s.

Boba Fett
July 9, 2009, 06:47 PM
RIGHT NOW we are ATTACKED by your government which requires one of our bank to infringe Swiss laws about banking secrecy.. I guess that in this economic collapse, every dime is worth attacking.. doesnt matter if some of your state have a much permissive banking system..

I too would like to express my apologies on behalf of those Americans who are not Marxist Socialists with dreams of a United Socialist America.

I hope we can repay you someday for their actions...it we get a chance...

Sniper X
July 9, 2009, 07:12 PM
Not to mention, everyone can own a suppressed full auto weapon there from what I hear.

Shung
July 9, 2009, 07:18 PM
everyone can own a suppressed

big no no- from 1999 supressors are forbidden items, that you can only own through a special permit ( understand fee) that is not always delivered..

As for Full auto's, exept the issued Stg57 and Stg90 (SiG550) it's the same.. forbidden unless special permit and fee.. but full auto permits are much easier to get, strangely.

CWL
July 9, 2009, 07:51 PM
The last real war that the Swiss fought in was the Napoleonic Wars ending in 1815. Being in the employ of the French, they used French pattern Charleville muskets.

Since then, the only other major altercation that Switzerland became involved in was during the Franco-Prussian War in 1870 when the French Army surrendered to the Swiss because they didn't want to be defeated by the Germans (Prussians)...
During this time, they were armed with Vetterli rifles which combined the bolt action of the German Dreyse needlegun with the tubular magazine of the Winchester. This was the most-advanced military rifle in Europe during this era.

Switzerland is well-armed and has a highly motivated military, but one great reason is that there aren't any economic reasons to invade Switzerland. Kinda lame to burn-down banks where your own money is stashed-in.

TheFallGuy
July 9, 2009, 08:46 PM
perhaps a swiss member can clarify this for me, but I had heard that when you are done with military service you can keep your issued small arms but they are demilled to be semi auto only. Maybe Shung could clarify the process? If this is too off topic, I apologize.

Shung
July 9, 2009, 09:16 PM
Yes, it's exactly what you say.

When you are over with your military service (29 to 34 years, depending) you may keep your service weapon (pistol for officers, Sig550 for soldiers)..

to do that, you must have done your obligatory shooting and campaign shooting all 3 years before the end of your service (2 types of miltary shooting, one is mandatory,the other one is facultative, but both are totally free (ammo included) for the shooter, in order to proove that you are interested in using your rifle. you can do each of them in 10min, the 1st is 20 rounds at 300m, the 2nd 18 shots at 300m..

After that you must pay 100$ approx to have it demilled to SEMI only.. and than it's yours.

Leftiest want to change that, and also prevent us to keep our issued rifle at home in between each military course (every year, 3 weeks) and citizens may have to vote about in in the coming years. Our government already told 1 week ago that he was AGAINST such a change, but still, the people will vote to decide.

Anyway, according to me, your rifle was never GIVEN to you.. since you gave minimum 300 days of your life for the army, and that your TAXES largely payed this RIFLE..

here is mine, not demilled yet, beside a couple of my ARs/AKs..

http://i54.servimg.com/u/f54/11/94/71/06/th/fa110.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=227&u=11947106)

Threeband
July 9, 2009, 11:11 PM
http://www.frontline.org.za/images/target_switz_s.jpg



http://www.amazon.com/Target-Switzerland-Swiss-Armed-Neutrality/dp/0306813254

Good book.

Dr. Peter Venkman
July 9, 2009, 11:21 PM
Our founding fathers, Henry Clay, Hancock, Jefferson, Franklin, regularly mentioned following the Swiss model for democracy and militia. And to a later degree about neutrality. But thankfully we weren't too neutral about letting the European powers keep messing around in North America and are where we are at (should have taken Mexico when we had the chance). I feel if we had followed the Swiss militia system we wouldn't quite have the serious deficits that we have in our society. There'd be more coherence between cultures, and while we are a heterogenous society we'd hail to a common purpose. Now we are a fractured people in the U.S., the weak outnumber the strong, and amass cowardice to destroy attempts at liberty, our culture is unduly feminized, and those men for whom once this nation was built upon and the lands settled, would be deemed monster, psychopaths, and criminals. "Once they would have hailed me Casear, but now I am but a mad man among sheep" (don't remember exactly where that is from).

This is an extremely accurate assesment of our country; no common threading whatsoever.

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