Bolt Down your safe!


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Geneseo1911
July 9, 2009, 12:59 PM
Especially if it's a cheap one:
The News-Gazette.com

Burglars steal guns, jewelry in rural break-in
By Mary Schenk
Thursday July 9, 2009

PENFIELD — Champaign County sheriff’s investigators are looking for burglars who stole thousands of dollars worth of items, including guns and jewelry, from a home in northeast Champaign County.

Sometime between 8 a.m. and 4 p.m. Monday, burglars broke in a home on County Road 2775 E near the Middle Fork Forest Preserve.

Among the items stolen were a large standing hunter green Sentry gun safe; a smaller steel Meilink personal safe; multiple shotguns, handguns and rifles; a silver Sony Vaio laptop computer; an Olympus digital camera; a Samsung 40-inch flat screen television; several pieces of jewelry; collector coins; and an undetermined amount of cash.

Sheriff’s Lt. Ed Ogle said the items were valued in excess of $15,000.

Due to the size and weight of the safes, it is believed that several people were involved, he said.

Ogle said it’s not uncommon for thieves to dump empty safes, once they have what they want from them, in ditches or over bridges in the country.

Investigators are asking anyone who might see something or have information to contact the sheriff’s office at -------- or Crimestoppers at --------.

http://www.news-gazette.com/news/2009/07/09/burglars_steal_guns_jewelry_in_rural_break-in

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Omaha-BeenGlockin
July 9, 2009, 01:04 PM
Not needed here---have the best watchdog of all--a retired OPD detective living right next door. Home all day.

a1abdj
July 9, 2009, 01:19 PM
Due to the size and weight of the safes, it is believed that several people were involved, he said.


I'm 6', 140 pounds, and I could have moved both of those safes myself without even using a dolly.

Sheriff’s Lt. Ed Ogle said the items were valued in excess of $15,000.


This is what happens when you use hundreds of dollars worth of safe to protect thousands of dollars worth of assets. I hope the guy had insurance.

TheDriver
July 9, 2009, 01:27 PM
Mine's bolted down. And it weighs about, oh, 800-900 lbs. If somebody can get it out, I tip my cap to them.

I really, really dread having to move that thing.

drumz2129
July 9, 2009, 01:54 PM
Mine's bolted down. And it weighs about, oh, 800-900 lbs. If somebody can get it out, I tip my cap to them.

I really, really dread having to move that thing.

Same here- mine was 1100lbs Empty (best $300 i ever spent to have it delivered and set in place) add the weight from the guns and 6K+ rounds in it - I doubt it would move even if it wasnt bolted down.

BMF500
July 9, 2009, 02:09 PM
Mine's bolted down. And it weighs about, oh, 800-900 lbs. If somebody can get it out, I tip my cap to them.

I really, really dread having to move that thing.
My safe is in the 1100 lbs. ball park empty, now it is completely full. I'm 6'3", 245lbs. and I do 2 hour workouts 5 days a week. I can't even slide mine across the carpet unassisted. Any dude (or 2, or 3) that can man handle my safe with out empying the contents, and get it in a truck has my respect.....

MattTheHat
July 9, 2009, 03:07 PM
You can either bolt it down or slather a liberal coating of Crisco all over the floor around it. Either way works. Bolts are probably a cleaner method.

-Matt

TxState101
July 9, 2009, 03:14 PM
Most of the Sentry safes weigh less than 300 pounds.

And I can tell you, they're extremely easy to wrestle by yourself.

I did it a lot in the warehouse at Academy.

clarence222
July 9, 2009, 03:18 PM
The shipping weight on my door was 1100 pounds. That being said if I had a normal gun safe I would bolt it down certainly good advice

Vonderek
July 9, 2009, 03:31 PM
I don't care how heavy your guys' safes are. A couple of guys with moving experience and an appliance dolly will have it out of there in a minute if it's not bolted down.

Kwanger
July 9, 2009, 03:37 PM
My small sentry safe is cheap and crappy....but it is at least bolted down into concrete, so it will afford some delaying protection against opportunists, which is probably good enough for the $1000 (max) dollars worth of guns and ammo in there.

Rembrandt
July 9, 2009, 05:30 PM
When ever the topic "which safe to buy" comes up, there's always those that are so proud of themselves for buying a cheap safe and saving money. This story illustrates the fallacy in owning a stamped sheet metal box that someone can carry off.

I don't care how heavy your guys' safes are. A couple of guys with moving experience and an appliance dolly will have it out of there in a minute if it's not bolted down.

They're more than welcome to try mine....I'll even buy the refreshments and popcorn for anyone that wants to watch. As an incentive, they can keep the safe and the contents if accomplished in a minute.....but if they fail, I keep all their guns, vehicles, and property.

Vonderek
July 9, 2009, 05:51 PM
Yes an unbolted 600 lb safe can be moved in a minute with a bit of equipment and people who know what they are doing.

A medium sized Original safe weighs 3000 pounds empty and are installed every day by safe pros. Usually a couple guys, a truck, and a heavy duty dolly. Probably would take them 10 minutes to remove one that wasn't bolted down. They still will have it out of your house and on their truck while you are at the store buying popcorn.

My point is if you are relying on weight alone as a means of securing a safe to your house I believe your are living with a false sense of security. But it is your house and your guns and belongings, not mine.

I think if one has gone to the time & expense of buying a safe it makes little sense to plop it down and call it good.

Stirling XD
July 9, 2009, 06:06 PM
When we built our house, we wanted to have a concrete walled safe room poured into the basement. There were problems with doing that. First was the cost. It was about three times more expensive than a quality safe and we would still need to buy a safe door. The safe door itself cost just as much as a quality safe and that didn't include installation. Second, every sub that walked into the house asked, "What's that funny room in the basement?" He was usually answered by another sub, "That's the homeowners gun safe."

Since that was an unusual item for houses in that neighborhood, it was talked about frequently. Not only did just about every sub know about it, but everyone in that neighborhood knew about it. While you couldn't carry it off, someone that knows a little bit about concrete could easy break into it.

It just goes to show you, there are no perfect solutions.

rondog
July 9, 2009, 06:17 PM
Buy a surplus missle silo and turn it into a home. That's about the safest you can get. I wouldn't do it, but I've seen some on the 'net that were awesome. Basically a normal house above ground, with thousands of sq. feet of concrete rooms underground.

w_houle
July 9, 2009, 07:22 PM
I usually keep my guns in false bottomed litter box:neener:

harmonic
July 9, 2009, 07:31 PM
No doubt a repost, but..........

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=22078516

And, I've seen some of Rembrandt's guns. I have no doubt that his security is above average.

But most gun owners, even with large safes, are definitely vulnerable. The best security is to keep your mouth shut about your collection.

Rembrandt
July 9, 2009, 07:50 PM
I certainly wouldn't discourage anyone from bolting a safe down, but even that can be overcome.

The best security is multi-layered. The safe being one part....dogs, motion sensors, false rooms, hidden cameras, electronic security system, alarms, and alligator pits comprising other layers.

Geneseo1911
July 9, 2009, 08:33 PM
alligator pits

indoor or outdoor?

Fresh or saltwater?

I installing a moat; I'm thinking about getting some sharks with friggin' lasers on their heads.

The Lone Haranguer
July 9, 2009, 08:45 PM
Yes an unbolted 600 lb safe can be moved in a minute with a bit of equipment and people who know what they are doing.

Agreed, and don't count on the neighbors to notice. Even if they did - especially in a large apartment complex where people move in and out all the time - they would likely chalk it up to legitimate movers, not all of whom have trucks with a company logo. Or they just don't care. :rolleyes: Or offer to help. :mad:

That said, I did not bolt down my safes. Being rented apartments or houses in which I did not plan to stay long, they were not my property to be drilling holes in. I gambled that most druggies looking for a quick score to buy that day's supply of crack or thieving teenagers would not make the effort.

Dan Forrester
July 9, 2009, 08:48 PM
My friend chuckled when I warned him last month to bolt down his new safe ASAP. Two weeks later it was gone. Now he has a new safe, and yes this time it is bolted down (four tapcons with fender washers).

Dan

harmonic
July 9, 2009, 08:53 PM
I'm 6'3", 245lbs. and I do 2 hour workouts 5 days a week. I can't even slide mine across the carpet unassisted

Maybe you're not doing it right.

The Lone Haranguer
July 9, 2009, 08:55 PM
I have a little Sentry safe, about two feet cubed. For a while it was my only safe. I lined the bottom of it, under the space created between the bottom padded shelf and the floor proper, with about 100 one-pound lead ingots. :D It could still have been carried off, of course, but they would have had to at least work a little bit. ;)

DBR
July 10, 2009, 01:38 AM
Seriously:

http://www.stopthecrime.com/products.htm

Quilbilly
July 10, 2009, 01:43 AM
I just brought home a Sentry safe about a month ago. I carried (well slid and flipped it end over end) it up to the third floor my myself and that took about an 45 mins. With two guys my safe could probably be gone in 5 mins. Cant wait to move out of this apartment in August so I can bolt this thing down!

inSight-NEO
July 10, 2009, 01:55 AM
Unfortunately, not all of us either have the space or the funds for 800-1000 lb. safes. So, for the rest of us, a healthy dose of insurance will have to do for now.

Besides, Im of the mind that if one wants something bad enough (and they have the necessary experience/know-how), well...consider it gone.

Nothing wrong with making it more difficult though, I will admit.

Evnldr
July 10, 2009, 02:02 AM
I have an alarm with cell back up my safe is not bolted down and only has one handgun and 200 rounds just used to keep kids out.. Id rather have them take the safe and run than come home when they just got it open and use my gun on me.. Now my safe with c cards documents bonds any thing of value yes its bolted down. and has a 24 hour alarm contact i have to call alarm co and let them know I'm going in to it and there is not much value in it anymore sold allot of jewelery.

Pack
July 10, 2009, 03:42 AM
DBR:

Seriously - thank you! I was totally unaware of the "burglar bomb" and its brethren. This is the perfect solution for my place when the dog will be absent!

Oyeboten
July 10, 2009, 03:43 AM
Always have a BIG, conspicuous Safe which has lots of (pretend) 'IOU's and shoe boxes of junk generic receipts, some Costume Jewelery, and, maybe, an H&R .22 with timing-problems and no ammo, and overall nothing of any significant value...and, hide the 'goodies' elsewhere...

BMF500
July 10, 2009, 08:32 AM
Maybe you're not doing it right.
No, it just isn't moving. I didn't mention that I bulit the room that it sits in around the safe. It doesn't fit through the door. So a wall has to be knocked out as well. After this discussion I do believe bolts will be fitted as further precaution.

Just One Shot
July 10, 2009, 09:33 AM
Safe bolted - Check

Boxer roaming free in the house - Check

:D

KenWP
July 10, 2009, 09:58 AM
Fellow I know had his gun safe on the top floor of his condo. Needless to say the theives
hauled it out of the house. But it cost him thousands of dollars to repair the damage to the place for a couple of guns. He figures it would have been cheaper to have the safe left unlocked then what it cost to fix the place. I have seen big money safes out of the back of stores stolen and hauled away twice with a stolen tow truck. The safes were actually being used to store the narcotics in a drug store at the time. Opening them is pretty easy once you get them someplace where you can make a lot of noise also.

HKUSP45C
July 10, 2009, 10:05 AM
Safe bolted - Check

Boxer roaming free in the house - Check

For me it's:
Safe Bolted -Check
2 Angry Weimaraners (the Cocker doesn't really count) -Check
Alarm System with cell backup -Check
Neighborhood covered by 3 police agencies, Constables, Sheriff. and HPD (when ever the alarm goes off [false positives] we usually get the closest unit, in under 3 minutes every time it's been "tested" and it hasn't been the same agency yet)
90 Db audible alarm placed over the safe and in the front hall -Check
Reinforced entry points -Check
3M glass break protection film on exterior windows -Check
Unemployed spouse who's cranky and a crack shot with a scattergun and pistol -Check

I want to see someone break in just to see the chaos that would ensue. You know, just hide and watch. ;)

Shovelhead
July 10, 2009, 10:21 AM
The Burgler Bomb is an interesting concept, but OC canisters need to be shaken up to get the contents back into suspension in the can before spraying.

A buddy who ran a Police Supply store was talking to one of his workers who had just taken a return on a 'defective' canister of OC spray.
Frank told the worker to go out into the parking lot, spray the canister, and step into the cloud.
Worker did as told and walked back into the store unaffected.
Frank then shook the can and handed it back to the worker to repeat the test.........following him outside with a jug of water and a roll of paper towels.
Worker sprayed,....stepped in,.......dropped to his knees............ ;)

I'll always remember that test.

winston smith
July 10, 2009, 11:08 AM
2 medium sized guys delivered my 900lb safe using nothing more than a pick-up and some small plastic pipes about 2 feet long.

I told them I'd call them if I ever wanted to build a pyramid.

Keb
July 10, 2009, 11:54 AM
There are 2 ways a burglar can move a safe without even a dolly.

One: Bring 3 or 4 pieces of 1 inch water pipe....then use them as rollers. Just tilt up one side, slip them under.

Two: On a smooth floor like wood or vinyl, just use a wool blanket as a pad. The safe will slide.

Then in those cases where the safe is in a garage and lightly bolted, they can use a heavy nlyon strap and a tow hook to yank it loose with a truck.

DBR
July 10, 2009, 06:13 PM
Shovelhead:
According to the guy who designed the Burglar Bomb his OC formulation is very fine particulate and at least on the units I have they are mounted upside down with no pickup tube. It is a burst nozzle like an OC grenade - not easily clogged. Anything that settles comes out first. He claims that no maintenance is required for the three year life of the cartridge.

He has had actual experience with units successfully protecting hunting camps and other buildings only occasionally occupied.

tyler500e
July 10, 2009, 06:44 PM
Quilbilly:
I'm in a similar situation, so I just bolted the safe to big piece of office furniture.

Shadow 7D
July 10, 2009, 07:39 PM
My mothers house had a false wall in the master bedroom for guns, I know that it doesn't protect the guns from fire, but it would more effective against theft than an easily found safe.

This is one of the reason that I'm hesitant about buying a safe, I guess that I've watched too many Youtube videos showing how to bust a "gun" safe with little more than a hammer and screwdriver, or some prybars.

harmonic
July 10, 2009, 08:40 PM
I know that it doesn't protect the guns from fire

Most safes don't protect against fire, unless they're specifically fire rated.

I've watched too many Youtube videos showing how to bust a "gun" safe

99.9% of homes safes are merely good to slow the burglar down. The absolute best protection for your guns is to simply not let anyone know you've got guns.

Shovelhead
July 10, 2009, 09:19 PM
DBR,
Thanks for that info.

RM
July 11, 2009, 11:06 PM
Even if your safe is bolted, if the steel is not thick, a portable electric saw will cut it open.

mbt2001
July 11, 2009, 11:12 PM
I have my safe sitting on a TM-46 Russian Anti-Tank mine...

:uhoh:

shoot14me
July 11, 2009, 11:35 PM
Years back when living in an appartment with no safe I removed cylinders, slides barrels and so forth from my firearms and stored those parts at a relatives house. I had two breakin's in 5 years and none of the pieces that were disassembled were touched. A firearm that can't be quickly fenced is not a very desireable item for most thieves.

crazy-mp
July 12, 2009, 01:19 AM
I am worried that the criminals will start renting excavators or cranes now to steal gun safes. Oh well as long as they don't figure out how to pick locks or use a quickie saw.



http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=94558&d=1237258643

Double Naught Spy
July 12, 2009, 02:02 AM
My safe is in the 1100 lbs. ball park empty, now it is completely full. I'm 6'3", 245lbs. and I do 2 hour workouts 5 days a week. I can't even slide mine across the carpet unassisted. Any dude (or 2, or 3) that can man handle my safe with out empying the contents, and get it in a truck has my respect.....

It is a fairly simple problem to solve. You simply tip the safe and slide heavy guage PVC pipe underneath and it will roll quite easily. That is how my buddy's "unmoveable" gun safe got moved by just one guy.

Of course the task is made easy by the fact that the heavier gun safes tend to be tall and so you get your leverage for tilting from the height. The task would be hugely more difficult if the safe was laying down on its back. Then you might need a few guys to move it quickly, lifting the edges in order to put the pipe underneath.

gallbrick
July 12, 2009, 06:08 AM
One of my favorites I've ever seen, was a old refrigerator You know the old school fridges, that just had one door, with a little ice box on the inside, and the big a$$ latch on the door? It was one of those. My friends dad pulled the ice box & drawers out, put some carpet and shelves on the inside. It was actually REALLY nice! And those old things weigh about a TON anyways!!! He replaced the key locking latch on the door, it was good to go. But I thought it was one of the most clever things I've ever seen. Hiding in plain sight. To top it off, it was in the basement, in the utility room, with the hot water heater, the REAL spare fridge, washer & dryer etc.... It just looked like it was supposed to be there!!!

mrcooper
July 12, 2009, 04:45 PM
That's nothing, a Polaroid picture of mine weighs 800 lbs:neener::neener::neener:

Highwayman
July 12, 2009, 06:17 PM
Good advice.. off I go.

TEDDY
July 12, 2009, 06:24 PM
I have opened a couple safes,took about an hr.carbide drill and knowing where to drill.also go in from back.now they have cordless drills.and on TV they had an add for a skill saw cutting thru a small steel box??maybe a small safe in couple minutes.:uhoh::rolleyes:

a1abdj
July 12, 2009, 08:45 PM
on TV they had an add for a skill saw cutting thru a small steel box??maybe a small safe in couple minutes.

I had to open a few GSA filing cabinets for a local government office a few weeks ago. They were scrapping the units, and only needed them open to ensure there were no documents remaining inside.

At the suggestion of my welder, I used a special blade on my circular saw. These cabinets were built heavier than most gun safes, and I was able to cut a 2' line in about 30 seconds. I bet I could cut a gun safe completely in half with this same set up in less than 3 minutes.

jakemccoy
July 12, 2009, 11:20 PM
I really don't know why someone would go through the trouble of getting a big, ugly, heavy safe and fail to bolt it down. It's all about over-engineering people! Bolting down, that's an easy way to over-engineer your safe.

RudeMood
July 13, 2009, 01:34 AM
My father had an interesting solution to his safe problem. He lived out in the boonies where it took 27 minutes for anyone but the paramedics to get to. Still, he had a lot of young family visit, so he needed a place to store the ammo and guns, separate from each other or otherwise. Conveniently enough, there was a weird coat closet right outside the master bedroom. Being the poor boy construction worker he is, it just took one phone call to a friend, a trip to a scrap yard, some beer, and a couple hours of not so tender ministrations and ... One wall gets knocked out to expand the closet, then it gets lined with a double layer of cinder blocks with 2 in steel plates from floor to ceiling on the other side, formed into a box and welded tight. Normal door opens to a 4 in thick safe door. It still had enough room for me and him to sit inside and play chess when empty, and it sure as hell had room for all our firearms and our humble hunting/defense ammo stock. :p

On a related note, some one did break into his house years later, there were all sorts of interesting scars on that door and a hole in the wall AND the concrete. It looked like he gave up about the time he hit steel again on the sides. :neener:

lebowski
July 13, 2009, 02:29 PM
I don't care how heavy your guys' safes are. A couple of guys with moving experience and an appliance dolly will have it out of there in a minute if it's not bolted down.




+100.

I never understand it when people say "I don't need to bolt down my safe because it weighs x, it's not going anywhere". Uh, were you worried that the safe would get up and "go somewhere" on it's own, or did you fork over a few grand on a safe to deter potential criminals? How did the safe get into your house in the first place? If 2-3 guys, a truck, and some moving equipment got it in, then 2-3 guys with a truck and moving equipment can get it out.

Why would you NOT bolt down your safe? It makes zero sense to me that anyone would fork over thousands for a quality gun safe and not take the (minimal) effort required to bolt it down.

RP88
July 13, 2009, 02:52 PM
I can't bolt mine down. But it is comforting knowing that my safe is at least heavy enough to keep the smash-n-grabbers (i.e. the non-professionals without any means of transporting the safe should they get it outside) from getting to my stuff.

I plan on making up for the lack of bolting by re-arranging my room to where the only means of accessing the safe is a very narrow space between every piece of combined furniture in my room, and a small door that can't open up all the way, inside a really shallow closet. But even then, I still agree that bolting it down is the only way to go.

mage2
July 13, 2009, 06:20 PM
for those that can not bolt down the safe due to living in a rental, a friend of mine came up with the idea to make what is basicly a steel box 6"-12" tall and 4' wide 4' deep fill with concrete and put safe on top of it, then bolt the safe to the steel ,concrete filled box. this would be too wide to fit through doors while its bolted together and would weigh (at 12"X48"48") about a ton (might not be good for upstairs) when you move you just unbolt it and use any of the tricks you would like to move it to the new place.

its not theft proof, but it would slow things down.

dullh
July 13, 2009, 09:43 PM
"Not needed here---have the best watchdog of all--a retired OPD detective living right next door. Home all day."

That's just stupid. So what you are saying is you've contracted him to watch your house 24 hours a day, 7 days a week? He has a vested interest in keeping YOUR stuff safe? He never leaves his house? Ever? Grocery store, doctor visits, vacation out west to see Chimney Rock? Never ever?

You're either lucky or delusional. Relying on someone else in lieu of a REAL security plan = future victim.

ChaoSS
July 13, 2009, 10:08 PM
That's just stupid. So what you are saying is you've contracted him to watch your house 24 hours a day, 7 days a week? He has a vested interest in keeping YOUR stuff safe? He never leaves his house? Ever? Grocery store, doctor visits, vacation out west to see Chimney Rock? Never ever?

You're either lucky or delusional. Relying on someone else in lieu of a REAL security plan = future victim.

Well, obviously. Retired detectives don't eat, sleep, leave home, or watch tv. They watch their neighbors houses to ensure that they don't get broken into.

makarovnik
July 14, 2009, 04:06 AM
Safes just scream "Look inside there's something good in here".

subierex
July 14, 2009, 10:03 AM
mbt2001

I have my safe sitting on a TM-46 Russian Anti-Tank mine...



Can you please provide a link where I can find one of these TM-46's?


:evil:

All I have is a Stack-On security cabinet. I also don't have much in total $$$ wrapped up in my meager collection. I figure if they want it, pretty much any safe I could afford could be defeated relatively easily. So, keep the collection kind of low and don't advertise the fact I have them. They're just tools to me anyway.

/wishes he could afford an arsenal :D

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