am looking for an 308 winchester defense load


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agent00
July 10, 2009, 11:39 AM
I have recently baught an remington model 7600 police in 308 winchester. I will primerly use it for plinking, but I had to sell my sty aug z so the remington will also serve as my hd defense rifle too. Are there any decent 308 win defense loads on the market? I have red good things about the hornady tap load but unfortunately they are very hard to get here in austria... Are there some comparable loads available? Here in austria I can get literally everythin form the major us ammo comapnies, hornady, federal, winchester and remington.

Thanks for your help in advance.

Greetings from austria.

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SaxonPig
July 10, 2009, 11:43 AM
Dude, it's a 308 rifle. It will kill a man deader than crap with any load you care to use... and blow through two walls in your house and kill the guy next door.

P.B.Walsh
July 10, 2009, 12:33 PM
If anything I'd use a hollow point, in a light grain, but thats just my opinion.

Just saying, I wouldn't use the larger 175+ pointy ammo. Corect me if I'm wrong about this.

rcmodel
July 10, 2009, 12:36 PM
Go with 110, 125, or 130 grain varmint loads.

The hole they would make through a man would be devastating, and over-penetration would be greatly reduced because the bullet will begin to blow up in the target.

Go here and click on "View" for ballistics gel results.
http://www.hornadyle.com/products/detail.php?id=72&sID=79

rc

Z-Michigan
July 10, 2009, 01:17 PM
Why would you sell a Steyr AUG and get a pump-action instead? Was it required by some new law?

Anyway, virtually any .308 load will be plenty as already noted. Hornady's 110gr TAP might be worth a look for reduced overpenetration. Even FMJ, though not a great choice, would be highly effective.

agent00
July 10, 2009, 01:24 PM
Thx for the the great answers. I have allready considered using an light varmint load as my primery defense load. Which ammo company offers good vermint loads?

rcmodel
July 10, 2009, 02:44 PM
Here in austria
Which ammo company offers good vermint loads?
You are in a better position then us to know what is available in Austria.

a few ammo companies make light bullet varmint/SD loads for the .308.

As of right now, finding any brand of .308 ammo in stock in the United States is hard too do because of the Obama scare.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=374436

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=342270

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=236872

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=510248

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=332557

rc

agent00
July 10, 2009, 02:50 PM
Thx for the links. As I said I can get here in austria erverythin from the major ammo companies, like remington, federal, hornady (except the tap rounds) and winchester. The corbon round would also be available but they are difficult to get at the moment.

ace88
July 10, 2009, 04:04 PM
Use a 150 or 165 gr factory load with a premium hunting bullet, such as Nosler Partition or Barnes X Triple Shock.

rcmodel
July 10, 2009, 04:19 PM
IMO: Premium hunting bullets weighing 150 - 165 grains is a bad choice for any HD use due to over-penetration.

They will shoot clear through a BG, your house, and the neighbors house too.

rc

ace88
July 10, 2009, 04:53 PM
IMO: Premium hunting bullets weighing 150 - 165 grains is a bad choice for any HD use due to over-penetration.

They will shoot clear through a BG, your house, and the neighbors house too.

Maybe he lives in a rural area with no nearby houses, and lives alone. I don't know the situation. But if I were going to use a .308 for home defense, I would use something that is going have the best terminal peformance.

agent00
July 10, 2009, 05:00 PM
Thx again for the further information. As I live alone in in rural area the risk of overpenetration ist not the problem. if it was an problem the only usefull hd weapon would be an handgun or shotgun. And yes, using an hunting bullet would be a good idea. The Nosler Balistic Tipp for example should work.

MTMilitiaman
July 10, 2009, 05:21 PM
The 155 and 168 gr Hornady TAP loads are the best thing going, but as mentioned, they can be scarce, and expensive when found. Either will produce cavities and tissue displacement about 3/4s of a typical 12 gauge buckshot load, with penetration well suited to defensive use.

The 168 and 175 gr OTM rounds, like the Sierra Matchkings, are popular for anti-personel roles in precision rifles due to their accuracy, but they can be inconsistent and erradic in tissue. While better than FMJs, they are adequate but not exceptional performers.

Barring the Hornady TAP stuff, I would look into a 150 gr polymer-tipped expanding hunting load intended for thin-skinned medium game, such as a Nosler Ballistic Tip. A 150 gr JSP, such as a Sierra Gameking, could also work. Either of these is likely to expand well and lose a great deal of mass and energy inside the target, but both will likely exit most human attackers, though hopefully without the mass and energy required to penetrate barriers and with minimal risk of collateral damage.

hardluk1
July 10, 2009, 08:19 PM
Call Georgia arms and order there 125gr nosler ballistictips at 3000 fps. It might stay inside. I have used them on deer and are devistating on tissue.

panrobercik
July 10, 2009, 08:55 PM
I've seen a program showing how hollow point becomes an FMJ once it penetrates a wall and gets filled with gypsum from sheetrock , therefore I would go with a hunting, soft point ammo.

Maelstrom
July 10, 2009, 09:22 PM
As a side note, do you realize what a full-power high-pressure cartridge is going to do to YOU in an enclosed space?

Redneck with a 40
July 10, 2009, 11:03 PM
I would think a 150 grain soft-point would be highly effective, in rural, open country. Winchester power-point or Remington Core-Lokt.

gunnie
July 11, 2009, 12:43 AM
https://dakotaammo.net/shop/product_info.php?cPath=24_101&products_id=167

according to below link, even these will penetrate 24" of ballistic gelatin. hopefully they will be fragmented enough to reduce down stream damage.

http://www.dakotaammo.net/custserv/lecatalog.pdf

i have read where the army rates 308 ball ammo for 50+ inches of pine wood @ 200 meters. 2+ cinder blocks @ 200. this is BALL ammo, not armor piercing. get the AUG back if overpenetration is a major concern.

gunnie

agent00
July 11, 2009, 03:56 AM
thx again for the help. Using the glaser safty slugs would be good idea. I have to check if I can get them here in austria. And as I have already stated i live in an rural area, so the risk of in injuring inocent bystanders is minmal so it would be no problem to use a full power hunting bullet. But i am still the opineon that glaser safty slug or an light varmint bullet would be the better choice.

Gordon
July 11, 2009, 04:08 AM
150 grain Nosler Ballistic tip kills 150 pound deer DRN. It is a little on the explosive side. It should have the same ballistic path as most ball ammo .

agent00
July 12, 2009, 03:35 AM
@Gordon Thx for the adivice.

I have done some investigations, and what be possible to get all the loads you have mentioned, even the Glaser Safty slugs and the 125 grain varmint loads from nosler. I will buy some glasers as myp primery defense load.

LoneStarWings
July 12, 2009, 06:34 PM
155 gr Hornady TAP w/ A-MAX bullets

For my M1A, I keep 1000 of these on hand in my dresser for SHTF, zombies, etc. They are match-ammo accurate with devestating wound ballistics. I also keep a lot of FMJ milsurp type on hand for general ues.

http://sgcusa.com/images/supporting_images_large/Hornady_TAP_308_168gr_A-MAX_D.jpg
http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Misc_Images/DocGKR/308_TAP_comparison.jpg

MJR007
July 12, 2009, 07:39 PM
Please bring your rifle in a shed or some where inside you can shot it out a window but with the muzzel inside). Load and shot it without any eyes or ears on. Then tell me if you still want to use it as a HDW.


(it will get the dust out of the room)

Get a dog

Ratshooter
July 12, 2009, 09:51 PM
Dude, it's a 308 rifle. It will kill a man deader than crap with any load you care to use... and blow through two walls in your house and kill the guy next door.

And maybe more.

My cousin was jacking with his dads 8mm mauser and managed to set it off in the house. It went through at least 6 interior walls, out through the brick veneer, through the neighbors brick veneer and through a couple of the neighibors interior walls before it stopped. That was with soft point hunting ammo.

And like others have suggested, fire that bad boy in an enclosed space with no hearing protection a couple of times. Let us know what you think.

Al Thompson
July 12, 2009, 09:59 PM
:rolleyes:

If Austria is anything like Germany, over penetration is not a concern. Thick walls in every house. If he hits with a .38 using JSP rounds, he won't have to shoot much either... :D

AgentOO I would not over analyze this - get some good soft point loads and drive on. I'd recommend something in the 125 grain range, but as long as it's a soft point, it'll work better than FMJ by a wide margin.

Owlnmole
July 13, 2009, 12:05 AM
Agent00 and all, here is a gelatin test of a .308 110 grain varmint load for comparison:
http://www.brassfetcher.com/110%20grain%20Sierra%20Varminter.html

That said, +1 on the ideas that at home defense distances, while a light varmint load may minimize over-penetration, any .308 cartridge will be plenty effective and the noise and blast would be, ahem, "impressive" indoors.

agent00
July 14, 2009, 04:02 AM
@Al thompson Yes we also have thick walls here in austria. Over Penetration should be no problem with rather ligt jsp or hp rounds

@All thx for the furhter informations Esecially the tap rounds look very intersting. I will keep on seraching the tap ammo. I think an gun store in vienna sells some. the only problem ist that ist not allowed to send ammo via mail here in austria, and I live far away from vienna. But mayby I can ask my local armsdealer if he can order some for me.

ps: I am aware that using an full power rifle indoors is not a good idea, but in an case of emgerncy that doesen't matter. I hofe I will never have to use my remington inside my house. But will buy soon an 45 apc handgun for target shooting, and when I have got my .45, that pistol will be my primerley defense weapon. I think I will get an cz 97.

Art Eatman
July 14, 2009, 12:48 PM
ANY gun going off inside a room is gonna hurt. Seems to me that staying alive with tinnitis is better than having folks at the funeral say, "Don't he look natural?"

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